693 replies to this topic

[ParMatrix]

I'm placing an order for a sample today =)

[PWAIN]

I have been writing to the producer of Niagen. I have managed to get an agreement that if we can get together an order for 100 bottles, he is willing to do it for a price of $33.60 (30% off the retail price). Minimum order size would be 6 bottles ($201.60) but I am sure that if that is too much for some, they could split the order with someone else but postage would be to the one person. The advantage is this stuff is obviously tested and has a good reputation.

We need 17 orders of 6 bottles to get this off the ground. I will kick this off with an order of 12 bottles.

PWAIN x 2

Please post your interest here if you want to order and I will add you to the list. Heres hoping there is enough interest...

It might be a good idea if you start another thread for a "Niagen" group buy with links to it on here, rather than clouding the issue of a bulk "Nicotinamide Riboside" group buy.

Good idea!!

I have created a new thread in the Supplements section (not sure why this is in brain health)

The link is here: http://www.longecity...side-group-buy/

If anyone is interested, please go to that link and let me know.

[midas]

I'm placing an order for a sample today =)

Excellent

[hav]

I'll get a kilo if the group buy is still open.

US or UK address, whatever suits the sender.

And advice, don't get the niagen crap. 150-300 mg is miniscule. I finished two jars in 4 weeks and cost me 100$. One gram a day is the goal and this group buy is the key to that goal

Can you elaborate? Do you mean the niagen bottles that go for $47 for 60 pills of 250mg each is crap?

Not crap in the sense of quality. Niagen is legit. But crap because the dose is miniscule compared to the study dose. I'm pretty sure also, it's two caps totalling 250mg, not one.

sorry for any misunderstanding

If memory servers me right, weren't Sinclair's mice dosed by injection? Or was it an in vitro study of tissue cultures that started this craze ? Not that I don't think NAR (gotta call nicotinamide riboside something catchy) won't prove beneficial in some ways, but I don't expect miracles from oral supplementation.

Yes. It was Nicotinamide Mononucleotide administered by ip injection at a dose of 500 mg/kg of body weight. The study paper is here.

Regarding the Niagen "N ( R )" product, the Swanson site has the label online and it's 60 capsules per bottle, serving size 2 capsules. and 250 mg per serving for 125 mg per capsule. In addition to the claimed 99% nicotinamide riboside, other contents are: Microcrystalline Cellulose, Magnesium Stearate, Silicon Dioxide, Cellulose (Vegetarian Capsule).

Howard

Edited by hav, 26 March 2014 - 06:24 AM.

[nootropicsandsarms]

easy to make,but i think maybe not sell well

3-Pyridinecarboxamide,maybe exsit 2 kinds,materail from nicotine(natural) and chemtech

[Geoffrey1]

easy to make,but i think maybe not sell well

3-Pyridinecarboxamide,maybe exsit 2 kinds,materail from nicotine(natural) and chemtech

Wrong material. Thinking you are a supplier from China, yes? If someone ordered Nicotinamide Riboside and you shipped that material you would be cheating them.

Nicotinamide Riboside is cas # 1341-23-7


not the material you linked to: 4-Pyridinecarboxamide is cas# 1453-82-3.

Why did you link to the wrong material?

[mikey]

I'll get a kilo if the group buy is still open.

US or UK address, whatever suits the sender.

And advice, don't get the niagen crap. 150-300 mg is miniscule. I finished two jars in 4 weeks and cost me 100$. One gram a day is the goal and this group buy is the key to that goal

Can you elaborate? Do you mean the niagen bottles that go for $47 for 60 pills of 250mg each is crap?

Not crap in the sense of quality. Niagen is legit. But crap because the dose is miniscule compared to the study dose. I'm pretty sure also, it's two caps totalling 250mg, not one.

sorry for any misunderstanding

The Swanson product is 250 mg twice a day. For my bodyweight, 79 kg, I should have to take 4.1 grams per day

If memory servers me right, weren't Sinclair's mice dosed by injection? Or was it an in vitro study of tissue cultures that started this craze ? Not that I don't think NAR (gotta call nicotinamide riboside something catchy) won't prove beneficial in some ways, but I don't expect miracles from oral supplementation.

Yes. It was Nicotinamide Mononucleotide administered by ip injection at a dose of 500 mg/kg of body weight. The study paper is here.

Regarding the Niagen "N ( R )" product, the Swanson site has the label online and it's 60 capsules per bottle, serving size 2 capsules. and 250 mg per serving for 125 mg per capsule. In addition to the claimed 99% nicotinamide riboside, other contents are: Microcrystalline Cellulose, Magnesium Stearate, Silicon Dioxide, Cellulose (Vegetarian Capsule).

Howard

The dosage 250 mg for two capsules is insignificant for an adult human.
Microcrystalline Cellulose, Magnesium Stearate, Silicon Dioxide, Cellulose (Vegetarian Capsule) are just encapsulating agents that are basically inert.
For someone my 79 kg body weight I should be taking 4.1 grams per day, so the only way I can do this is if there is a group buy that adds up.

[mikey]

I'll spring for 6 bottles. I'll still be interested in Parmatrix' group buy, but that may take a while. In the meantime, I'm running on Niagen.

What does a bottle contain?

I would want 1 KG of the material since my body weight requires 4.1 grams per day, so 1 KG would last me over 240 days.

And I'll put in $20 for testing.

[midas]

The dosage 250 mg for two capsules is insignificant for an adult human.
Microcrystalline Cellulose, Magnesium Stearate, Silicon Dioxide, Cellulose (Vegetarian Capsule) are just encapsulating agents that are basically inert.
For someone my 79 kg body weight I should be taking 4.1 grams per day, so the only way I can do this is if there is a group buy that adds up.

I am not all together sure that a dosage of 4 Grams per day would be necessary, if the mouse muscle tissue reversed the equivalent of 30-40 years in human age in just one week I really think that would be OTT for us to expect our body to cope with that amount of change in such a short space of time. I firmly believe the dosage of this has to be approached cautiously.

Personally I will be thinking on taking more like 1 Gram per day or maybe a little less at first just to be safe and see what happened before I thought about taking as much as 4 Grams per day.

What does a bottle contain?

I would want 1 KG of the material since my body weight requires 4.1 grams per day, so 1 KG would last me over 240 days.

And I'll put in $20 for testing.

A bottle contains 7.5 Grams from my understanding....30 days at 2 x 125mg tabs = 250mgs per day x 30 days = 7.5 Grams

250 mg of Nicotinamide Riboside per serving
Serving Size: 2 Capsules
Servings Per Container: 30

Edited by midas, 29 March 2014 - 11:46 PM.

[tunt01]

The dosage 250 mg for two capsules is insignificant for an adult human.
Microcrystalline Cellulose, Magnesium Stearate, Silicon Dioxide, Cellulose (Vegetarian Capsule) are just encapsulating agents that are basically inert.
For someone my 79 kg body weight I should be taking 4.1 grams per day, so the only way I can do this is if there is a group buy that adds up.

I'd be careful with that assumption. Sinclair obviously designed the study to produce a pronounced effect. I'm not sure it's a good reference point for a human dose. Sinclair is a bit of a provocateur. The guy doesn't eat his own cooking (he's not taking NMR) and is always proclaiming eureka. I would look at how actual human clinicals are being designed as reference point rather than the mice study he used.

I only took 250 mg and found a huge effect. I don't even want to begin to think about what 4 grams would do.

[PWAIN]

Midas, it's actually 7.5 grams.

[midas]

Midas, it's actually 7.5 grams.

Thanks PWAIN,.....

I just popped back and altered that, I missed the decimal point out, typing to quickly.... ......

[Geoffrey1]

The dosage 250 mg for two capsules is insignificant for an adult human.
Microcrystalline Cellulose, Magnesium Stearate, Silicon Dioxide, Cellulose (Vegetarian Capsule) are just encapsulating agents that are basically inert.
For someone my 79 kg body weight I should be taking 4.1 grams per day, so the only way I can do this is if there is a group buy that adds up.

I'd be careful with that assumption. Sinclair obviously designed the study to produce a pronounced effect. I'm not sure it's a good reference point for a human dose. Sinclair is a bit of a provocateur. The guy doesn't eat his own cooking (he's not taking NMR) and is always proclaiming eureka. I would look at how actual human clinicals are being designed as reference point rather than the mice study he used.

I only took 250 mg and found a huge effect. I don't even want to begin to think about what 4 grams would do.

Good points and thanks for posting that.
my experience was different re NR from Niagen; took 500 mg a day (250 AM and 250 PM) and did not notice anything dramatic. Was thinking in terms of taking 1.5 grams when we get the bulk buy together.
Does anyone know of human clinicals being designed at this point?

if anyone hears of please keep us posted.

good helpful posts; really appreciate

[Geoffrey1]

The dosage 250 mg for two capsules is insignificant for an adult human.
Microcrystalline Cellulose, Magnesium Stearate, Silicon Dioxide, Cellulose (Vegetarian Capsule) are just encapsulating agents that are basically inert.
For someone my 79 kg body weight I should be taking 4.1 grams per day, so the only way I can do this is if there is a group buy that adds up.

I'd be careful with that assumption. Sinclair obviously designed the study to produce a pronounced effect. I'm not sure it's a good reference point for a human dose. Sinclair is a bit of a provocateur. The guy doesn't eat his own cooking (he's not taking NMR) and is always proclaiming eureka. I would look at how actual human clinicals are being designed as reference point rather than the mice study he used.

I only took 250 mg and found a huge effect. I don't even want to begin to think about what 4 grams would do.

Good points and thanks for posting that.
my experience was different re NR from Niagen; took 500 mg a day (250 AM and 250 PM) and did not notice anything dramatic. Was thinking in terms of taking 1.5 grams when we get the bulk buy together.
Does anyone know of human clinicals being designed at this point?

if anyone hears of please keep us posted.

good helpful posts; really appreciate

wanted to add 500mg /day Niagen for a month--and as i said did not notice anything that i can say; always the placebo effect (do not mean that negatively of course: very real effect) that can vary with expectations etc. from individual to individual

[nootropicsandsarms]

easy to make,but i think maybe not sell well

3-Pyridinecarboxamide,maybe exsit 2 kinds,materail from nicotine(natural) and chemtech

Wrong material. Thinking you are a supplier from China, yes? If someone ordered Nicotinamide Riboside and you shipped that material you would be cheating them.

Nicotinamide Riboside is cas # 1341-23-7


not the material you linked to: [url=""%5D4-Pyridinecarboxamide is cas# 1[/url]453-82-3.

Why did you link to the wrong material?

sorry,i just search for more info about Nicotinamide ,dont think too much,sir,and i dont make a confirm on this,next time will be more carful

[midas]

easy to make,but i think maybe not sell well

3-Pyridinecarboxamide,maybe exsit 2 kinds,materail from nicotine(natural) and chemtech

Wrong material. Thinking you are a supplier from China, yes? If someone ordered Nicotinamide Riboside and you shipped that material you would be cheating them.

Nicotinamide Riboside is cas # 1341-23-7


not the material you linked to: [url=""%5D4-Pyridinecarboxamide is cas# 1[/url]453-82-3.

Why did you link to the wrong material?

sorry,i just search for more info about Nicotinamide ,dont think too much,sir,and i dont make a confirm on this,next time will be more carful

You need to be looking at Nicotinamide Riboside, not Nicotinamide!

[BobSeitz]

Maybe I bang the cymbals here. I've been taking Niagen for... six weeks? at a 500 mg./day dosage, 250 mg. upon awakening, and 250 mg. in mid-day. I'm also taking (contemporaneously) 200 mg. of SAM-e, 250 mg.of TMG (trimethyl glycine), 50 mg. of Apigenin, and the Life Extension Foundation's Asian Energy Boost (333.3 mg. of Cordyceps mushroom extract and 55 mg. of their GS15-4 fermented ginseng extract). Along with my morning dose, I also take a 40 mg. MitoQ capsule, a pyridoxamine,, methylcobalamin, L-methylfolate capsule, and 200 mg. of S-acetyl-glutathione. Do I know what I'm doing? Not really, but that's what I've been taking for the last six weeks. (That's not all I'm taking, but those are additions to what I was taking last year.)

I also began formal training at our "Wellness Center" gym two months ago, so that's a part of the picture. Since I don't have a baseline with which to compare my current, measurable performance with my performance two months ago, it's all a bit vague, but that being said, I'm feeling uncommonly upbeat and good. Yesterday, I ran two miles (3.2 kms.) at a 7¾-METs level of effort. (I finished running with a pulse rate of 127, so there may be room for improvement. I'm really just starting this program.) That may not sound all that imposing, but (1) I'm hoping to work up to higher levels of effort, and (2) I'll be 85 in July.

Beyond that, I don't feel substantially different than I did when I was 25. I have no joint pain and presumably, no arthritis. (My forbears were plagued with OA at my age.) I don't have cataracts. I can read without glasses, although it's easier to read with low-powered reading glasses. I play tag and hide-and-go-seek with our 7½-year-old darling. Is this a result of taking 500 mg. of Niagen a day? Beats me, but whatever it is, it's pretty nifty.

I've been taking 3-4 capsules a day of TA-65 since September, 2011. My LifeLength shortest-telomere age in May, 2012, was 66.1, when I was chronologically 83 and 5/6ths.

Watch this space for further announcements (:-)

Whoops! "Maybe I should bang the cymbals here."

[Droplet33]

I'm placing an order for a sample today =)

Looking forward to it, if you decide to sell the stuff, you'll have a customer right (like i wasn't one to begin with, lol)..

[PWAIN]

I also began formal training at our "Wellness Center" gym two months ago, so that's a part of the picture. Since I don't have a baseline with which to compare my current, measurable performance with my performance two months ago, it's all a bit vague, but that being said, I'm feeling uncommonly upbeat and good. Yesterday, I ran two miles (3.2 kms.) at a 7¾-METs level of effort. (I finished running with a pulse rate of 127, so there may be room for improvement. I'm really just starting this program.) That may not sound all that imposing, but (1) I'm hoping to work up to higher levels of effort, and (2) I'll be 85 in July.

Beyond that, I don't feel substantially different than I did when I was 25. I have no joint pain and presumably, no arthritis. (My forbears were plagued with OA at my age.) I don't have cataracts. I can read without glasses, although it's easier to read with low-powered reading glasses. I play tag and hide-and-go-seek with our 7½-year-old darling. Is this a result of taking 500 mg. of Niagen a day? Beats me, but whatever it is, it's pretty nifty.

That is just totally amazing. I know a few people in their 80s and you sound like you run rings around them. I would be curious as to how much in your subjective opinion you attribute to the Niagen? Did you also start the MitoQ 6 weeks ago? Have you tried varying the dose to see if more or less is better?

[hav]

The dosage 250 mg for two capsules is insignificant for an adult human.
Microcrystalline Cellulose, Magnesium Stearate, Silicon Dioxide, Cellulose (Vegetarian Capsule) are just encapsulating agents that are basically inert.
For someone my 79 kg body weight I should be taking 4.1 grams per day, so the only way I can do this is if there is a group buy that adds up.

I'm a little confused about the Microcrystalline Cellulose. Does it absorb and eliminate fatty acids from the digestive tract like fiber does? I normally avoid mixing lipophilic supplements with fiber.

Fwiw, my reading indicates Nicotinamide Riboside is lipohilic and dissolves in olive oil at a rate of about 5 grams per liter while being practically insoluble in water.

Howard

[hav]

Been digging into the patent status. Chromadex is apparently not the patent owner. They seem to have licensed it from Dr. Brenner who claims to have discovered and patented it while at Dartmouth College according to this press release:

ChromaDex® Licenses Exclusive Patent Rights for Nicotinamide Riboside

The abstract of Dr Brenner's original 2004 paper is here:

http://www.ncbi.nlm....pubmed/15137942

But Dr Brenner didn't really discover Nicotinamide Riboside. I think he only discovered a way to make it inexpensively using a particular yeast. Looks like the actual discovery dates back to at least 1950 and was discussed in this paper published in 1951:

http://www.jbc.org/c.../2/497.full.pdf

Howard

[hav]

Fwiw, my reading indicates Nicotinamide Riboside is lipohilic and dissolves in olive oil at a rate of about 5 grams per liter while being practically insoluble in water.

Howard

Oops, just realized I typed that backwards. It dissolves in water and methanol and is almost insoluble in oil. Sorry.

Howard

[maxwatt]

I know a Doctor who has acquired several kilograms of Nicotinamide riboside and plans on taking 7 grams a day. We are awaiting test results, but if it is good, and if he finds measurable improvements in several markers, I will be joining him. The price you get from Chinese suppliers is all over the map, but 70 or 80 $ a kilogram in bulk is the low end.

Niagen does nothing as far as I can tell. Dose too low.

Those of us with long memories may recall that nicotinamide riboside (NR) was one of the half dozen or so substances mentioned as SIRT1 agonists in Sinclair's original papers on resveratrol back in 2006. At the time NR was not available. In private communications, Auwerx (a co-author with Sinclair on some of the papers) stated that the human equivalent of the dose required to get the mitochondrial effects noted in his mice would be on the order of 8 grams. Those of us who reported on such self-administered doses were also troubled by explosive diarrhea. After which, even lower doses caused problems. I am hopeful NR does not have those problems, but some of us think mitochondrial biogenesis is the grail we are seeking for rejuvenation effects. Hopeful NR works this way,

Also, the effects on mitochondria shown by resveratrol I suspect has ittle to do with SIRT1, but rather PPAR agonism. resveratrol is a PPAR-beta and PPAR-gamma agonists, and perhaps at best a weak PPAR-delta agonist. PPAR-delta agonism is known to induce mitochondrial biogenesis: think AiCAR, or Telmisartan. Does anyone know from their research if NR is a PPAR-delta agonist?

http://www.cell.com/...4131(12)00192-1

Auwerx again: "
The NAD⁺ Precursor Nicotinamide Riboside Enhances Oxidative Metabolism and Protects against High-Fat Diet-Induced Obesity

Carles Cantó^67...,..., Johan Auwerx

Highlights

• NR efficiently increases NAD+ levels in mammalian cells and tissues
• NR supplementation increases SIRT1 and SIRT3 activities
• NR largely prevents the detrimental metabolic effects of high-fat feeding
• NR enhances mitochondrial function and endurance performance

Summary

As NAD⁺ is a rate-limiting cosubstrate for the sirtuin enzymes, its modulation is emerging as a valuable tool to regulate sirtuin function and, consequently, oxidative metabolism. In line with this premise, decreased activity of PARP-1 or CD38—both NAD⁺ consumers—increases NAD⁺ bioavailability, resulting in SIRT1 activation and protection against metabolic disease. Here we evaluated whether similar effects could be achieved by increasing the supply of nicotinamide riboside (NR), a recently described natural NAD⁺ precursor with the ability to increase NAD⁺ levels, Sir2-dependent gene silencing, and replicative life span in yeast. We show that NR supplementation in mammalian cells and mouse tissues increases NAD⁺ levels and activates SIRT1 and SIRT3, culminating in enhanced oxidative metabolism and protection against high-fat diet-induced metabolic abnormalities. Consequently, our results indicate that the natural vitamin NR could be used as a nutritional supplement to ameliorate metabolic and age-related disorders characterized by defective mitochondrial function."

Edited by maxwatt, 01 April 2014 - 01:25 PM.

[tunt01]

I know a Doctor who has acquired several kilograms of Nicotinamide riboside and plans on taking 7 grams a day. We are awaiting test results, but if it is good, and if he finds measurable improvements in several markers, I will be joining him. The price you get from Chinese suppliers is all over the map, but 70 or 80 $ a kilogram in bulk is the low end.

Niagen does nothing as far as I can tell. Dose too low.

LOL. If I took 7 grams of Niagen (which is sitting here on my desk), I wouldn't be surprised if I blacked out or had some kind of metabolic induced cardiac arrest. Either I'm the most SIRT1 deficient organism on planet Earth or 7 grams is totally insane. Because 250 mg does a lot for me. It is enormous.

If your doctor has any respect for medications, I would suggest he titrate modestly.

Those of us with long memories may recall that nicotinamide riboside (NR) was one of the half dozen or so substances mentioned as SIRT1 agonists in Sinclair's original papers on resveratrol back in 2006. At the time NR was not available. In private communications, Auwerx (a co-author with Sinclair on some of the papers) stated that the human equivalent of the dose required to get the mitochondrial effects noted in his mice would be on the order of 8 grams. Those of us who reported on such self-administered doses were also troubled by explosive diarrhea. After which, even lower doses caused problems. I am hopeful NR does not have those problems, but some of us think mitochondrial biogenesis is the grail we are seeking for rejuvenation effects. Hopeful NR works this way,

Also, the effects on mitochondria shown by resveratrol I suspect has ittle to do with SIRT1, but rather PPAR agonism. resveratrol is a PPAR-beta and PPAR-gamma agonists, and perhaps at best a weak PPAR-delta agonist. PPAR-delta agonism is known to induce mitochondrial biogenesis: think AiCAR, or Telmisartan. Does anyone know from their research if NR is a PPAR-delta agonist?

This is a good question on the PPAR-Delta. I don't know off top of my head, but I pulled ~10 NR studies and will look when I go through them later. Your thought process re:Telmisartan/AICAR is what I was thinking also. I kind of prefer Niagen because the impact is so sharp, endurance/clarity is so superb. But the Telmisartan (which I am taking at 10mg/day) has a longer half life, is more subtle, and has dozens of studies demonstrating a safety profile and even improved longevity outcome.

I'm going to take Telmisartan like 5-6 days a week and NR 1-2 days.

[MarcD]

I'm taking Valsartan (160mg) against my high blood pressure ... so maybe should talk to my doctor and switch to Telmisartan? Telmisartan, not Valsartan, activates PPAR-γ (gamma). Other stuff I take: Niagen (375mg), C60 (8mg e3d), Zinc, Chinese herbs (Kidney Tonics, boost Testosterone)

[midas]

I know a Doctor who has acquired several kilograms of Nicotinamide riboside and plans on taking 7 grams a day.

Any chance this Doctor friend of yours is willing to share where he bought his several Kilos of NR?

As am sure you know we are having problems finding a legitimate supplier..

[mikey]

The dosage 250 mg for two capsules is insignificant for an adult human.
Microcrystalline Cellulose, Magnesium Stearate, Silicon Dioxide, Cellulose (Vegetarian Capsule) are just encapsulating agents that are basically inert.
For someone my 79 kg body weight I should be taking 4.1 grams per day, so the only way I can do this is if there is a group buy that adds up.

I'm a little confused about the Microcrystalline Cellulose. Does it absorb and eliminate fatty acids from the digestive tract like fiber does? I normally avoid mixing lipophilic supplements with fiber.

Fwiw, my reading indicates Nicotinamide Riboside is lipohilic and dissolves in olive oil at a rate of about 5 grams per liter while being practically insoluble in water.

Howard

It is a small amount of fiber and produces little to no effect on other ingredients.

[smithx]

I don't recommend purchasing a sample, testing it, and then ordering a large quantity and trusting it will be the same material. There is no way to verify that.

Instead, I recommend purchasing the entire amount on either 60 day terms or through an escrow service which will allow at least 4 weeks for testing.

The test sample should be a combination of several containers, to make sure that each container is the same.

If I am doing the testing, I only need 1gm (actually I need about 100mg, but a gram is easier to work with).

[PWAIN]

I received a bottle of Niagen yesterday and took a couple of caps. Didn't really notice anything, maybe slightly nauseous and a bit unpleasant generally but that might have been something unrelated.

I decided that it may be a good idea to try sublingual to get as much out of a limited supply as possible. I opened a cap and poured the contents under my tongue. After a while, it dissolved. I started to notice that my mouth/jaw was aching, kinda like I had a major head cold. It was quite intense and certainly something I would like to avoid.

This aching persisted but I decided that I wanted to try some more of the MitoQ I recently acquired so I popped some of that under my tongue. In a couple of minutes, I found that teh aching subsided and eventually disappeared. I didn't link the two at first.

Later I decided to take 3 more Niagen caps sublingually. I tipped all 3 under my tongue and aching came back very strongly. It was very unpleasant. Once it finally dissolved, I decided to take more of the MitoQ because I was now suspecting that this may have helped the first time. It helped again and was a big relief because I don't think I could continue to take Niagen sublingually without this relief.

I am not sure why Niagen causes such pain and discomfort. Perhaps the molecule is very big or maybe it reacts with the nerves or something like that. I also don’t understand why the MitoQ reverses this, could it be the stuff it is buffered with?

I would be very interested to find out more, what are others experiences?

[maxwatt]

I know a Doctor who has acquired several kilograms of Nicotinamide riboside and plans on taking 7 grams a day. We are awaiting test results, but if it is good, and if he finds measurable improvements in several markers, I will be joining him. The price you get from Chinese suppliers is all over the map, but 70 or 80 $ a kilogram in bulk is the low end.

Niagen does nothing as far as I can tell. Dose too low.

LOL. If I took 7 grams of Niagen (which is sitting here on my desk), I wouldn't be surprised if I blacked out or had some kind of metabolic induced cardiac arrest. Either I'm the most SIRT1 deficient organism on planet Earth or 7 grams is totally insane. Because 250 mg does a lot for me. It is enormous.

If your doctor has any respect for medications, I would suggest he titrate modestly.

Those of us with long memories may recall that nicotinamide riboside (NR) was one of the half dozen or so substances mentioned as SIRT1 agonists in Sinclair's original papers on resveratrol back in 2006. At the time NR was not available. In private communications, Auwerx (a co-author with Sinclair on some of the papers) stated that the human equivalent of the dose required to get the mitochondrial effects noted in his mice would be on the order of 8 grams. Those of us who reported on such self-administered doses were also troubled by explosive diarrhea. After which, even lower doses caused problems. I am hopeful NR does not have those problems, but some of us think mitochondrial biogenesis is the grail we are seeking for rejuvenation effects. Hopeful NR works this way,

Also, the effects on mitochondria shown by resveratrol I suspect has ittle to do with SIRT1, but rather PPAR agonism. resveratrol is a PPAR-beta and PPAR-gamma agonists, and perhaps at best a weak PPAR-delta agonist. PPAR-delta agonism is known to induce mitochondrial biogenesis: think AiCAR, or Telmisartan. Does anyone know from their research if NR is a PPAR-delta agonist?

This is a good question on the PPAR-Delta. I don't know off top of my head, but I pulled ~10 NR studies and will look when I go through them later. Your thought process re:Telmisartan/AICAR is what I was thinking also. I kind of prefer Niagen because the impact is so sharp, endurance/clarity is so superb. But the Telmisartan (which I am taking at 10mg/day) has a longer half life, is more subtle, and has dozens of studies demonstrating a safety profile and even improved longevity outcome.

I'm going to take Telmisartan like 5-6 days a week and NR 1-2 days.

Hmn. 10 grams telmisartan is a low dose. As far as I know, the lowest prescription dose available, which I am taking, is 40 mg. a day as per my doctor's instructions. What is your source, if I may ask? Niagen had no discernible effect for me, and I discontinued it. Perhaps my higher dose of Telmisartan rendered it redundant? Or not.

The 8 mg dose (a different doctor's recommendation) was determined by scaling successful doses from mouse studies. And in fact, the good doctor informs me he he has been taking 7 grams a day, from a source of NR he purchased several years ago. The new batch is quite a bit less expensive, more advanced synthesis methods mean a lower price, in the nick of time as his supply of several kilos has run low.

I did find references to Telmisartan as a PPAR beta.gamma agonist. Nothing either way vis a vis PPAR-delta.