693 replies to this topic

[StevesPetRat]

Yeah, definitely don't get the bromide salt. (/bump/following to see if we can find a cheaper excipient free reliable source)
Oh and for what it's worth I have felt effects from sublingual niacinamide so I imagine NR would be similar. Though I guess there are already a few user accounts reporting that.

Edited by StevesPetRat, 10 June 2014 - 08:22 AM.

[pedr0vsky]

Oh and for what it's worth I have felt effects from sublingual niacinamide so I imagine NR would be similar. Though I guess there are already a few user accounts reporting that.

Niacinamide inhibits sirtuins.

[M-K]

Anyone tried this version of Niagen? http://www.livecellr...n250/index.html

 

I haven't heard of Live Cell Research before and can't find a press release from Chromadex announcing licensing them.  Different packaging, 250 mg per capsule, slightly cheaper price.  Slightly inaccurate ad copy.

Edited by M-K, 11 June 2014 - 02:00 AM.

[maxwatt]

My Chinese friends attempting to manufacture NR sent me an update:

 

 

The patent technique is not right. We changed raw material last week. Our engineer told the final product will have nice solubility in water. Their problem will be at the last step, the solvent residual. Small sample will be given to us around 24th, this month

 

Don't know if this will get around the patent, or if the patent is broad enough to encompass whatever it is they are doing. 

 

They may make capsules available from a website, something like Crackaging.com.  Vitamin B3 as nicotinamide riboside.... I still don't have any pricing for bulk powder.  It won't be really cheap until there is enough volume to warrant setting up production by bacterial fermentation. 

[Fima Kachinski]

My Chinese friends attempting to manufacture NR sent me an update:

 

 

The patent technique is not right. We changed raw material last week. Our engineer told the final product will have nice solubility in water. Their problem will be at the last step, the solvent residual. Small sample will be given to us around 24th, this month

 

Don't know if this will get around the patent, or if the patent is broad enough to encompass whatever it is they are doing. 

 

They may make capsules available from a website, something like Crackaging.com.  Vitamin B3 as nicotinamide riboside.... I still don't have any pricing for bulk powder.  It won't be really cheap until there is enough volume to warrant setting up production by bacterial fermentation. 

 

That's great news Maxwatt! Please keep us updated on the progress.

[Fima Kachinski]

Anyone tried this version of Niagen? http://www.livecellr...n250/index.html

 

I haven't heard of Live Cell Research before and can't find a press release from Chromadex announcing licensing them.  Different packaging, 250 mg per capsule, slightly cheaper price.  Slightly inaccurate ad copy.

 

Interesting find. They appear to be selling it for $13 less than HPN does when you buy 3 bottles ($129.99 from HPN vs $117 from Live Cell Research), but HPN also charges me $16 for shipping (I reside in Canada) whereas LCR seems to offer free shipping. So overall, at least Canadians can save close to $30 by ordering from LCR. But how do we confirm that it is legitimate since as you state, Chomadex didn't announce this licensing deal?

[nelsonrellim]

 

 

 

You forgot to put me on the list.

 

Lol, sorry, its because the opt ins are mixed with all the general Nicotinamide Riboside talk.

 

 

No worries, as long as I end up on the list I'll be happy

 

 

Please add me to your group buy list. Nelson.

[Bryan_S]

There is a group purchase happening right now for anyone interested.

 

75 days ago PWAIN announced on the Niagen (nicotinamide riboside) group buy thread that a 30% discount from the distributer at High Performance Nutrition had been secured.

 

Yesterday I inquired with HPN to be contacted when another such group buy for Longecity was organized. They replied by telling me it was happening again from June 19th - June 25th.

 

It is a 6 bottle minimum working out to around $33.60 US per bottle now through next Wednesday 6/25.

 

The purchase page is http://hpnsupplements.com/products/nr/ 

 

Enter code Longecity2 in your checkout cart under Apply Coupon and the price will change for quantities at or above 6 bottles. 

Someone mentioned they purchased other products on their website in addition to nicotinamide riboside (NR) and the code extended the discount to the other products. I have not verified this for myself.

 

 

 

This group buy has been organized as HPN Team pricing for our Longecity members.

 

I believe this works out to 7.5 grams per bottle or $4.48 US per gram.

 

We can resurrect this group buy every 2 months or so until a cheaper source can be secured from another distributer.

 

[Primal]

 It lasted four months, using an oral mouse dose of 400 mg/kg/day of NR.

 

The scaling factor from mouse to humans applies to drugs because their metabolism rate is much faster. I dont think it applies to vitamin or vitamin-like substances like NR and NMN. Concentrations of NAD+ in mouse cells is similar to that of humans, and NR/NMN are NAD precursors not drugs being metabolized and excreted. 

 

 

Daily administration of 500 mg/kg (40g/170lb human equivalent) nicotinamide to EAE

mice from the day of MOG immunization or from day 10 pi., reduced all pathology parameters.

 

ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2651433/

 

So I expect that a good dosage for humans is 25-50g/day, at least during a NAD-boosting phase

Edited by Primal, 20 June 2014 - 08:32 PM.

[Primal]

My Chinese friends attempting to manufacture NR sent me an update:

Is your group buy for bulk powder (chloride not bromide) or for caps?

 

 

 

I did a quick google for CAS:1341-23-7 and found one at

Min. Order ( kg) Unit Price 1 US $ 125/ Piece

 

by Wuhan Hengheda Pharm Co., Ltd.

 

If they mean 125$/kg that would be great. 125$/g not so much. Are you guys sure you looked at all the manufacturers of CAS:1341-23-7 for prices? Also could we potentially, somehow, group buy bulk from ChromaDex?

 

 

Edited by Primal, 20 June 2014 - 08:53 PM.

[maxwatt]

 

My Chinese friends attempting to manufacture NR sent me an update:

Is your group buy for bulk powder (chloride not bromide) or for caps?

 

 

 

I did a quick google for CAS:1341-23-7 and found one at

Min. Order ( kg) Unit Price 1 US $ 125/ Piece

 

by Wuhan Hengheda Pharm Co., Ltd.

 

If they mean 125$/kg that would be great. 125$/g not so much. Are you guys sure you looked at all the manufacturers of CAS:1341-23-7 for prices? Also could we potentially, somehow, group buy bulk from ChromaDex?

 

 

 

 

I'd be cautious; one Chinese source shipped red rice yeast, another shipped niacinamide.  The price you found is highly suspicious, extremely unlikely to be the real thing.  Some of us who actually know the Chinese factories may be able to get it when it available. 

[Primal]

 

The patent technique is not right. We changed raw material last week. Our engineer told the final product will have nice solubility in water. Their problem will be at the last step, the solvent residual. Small sample will be given to us around 24th, this month

 

Did you ask them what solvents they are using? I would be surprised if indeed the technique in the ChromaDex/Dartmouth College patent would be wrong. And do you plan to have the NR independently tested for purity, heavy metals, etc? Having a problem with residuals is not reassuring, it could be some nasty stuff. Hopefully they understand that we're aiming to take several grams a day of that stuff, so the various residuals and impurities must be extremely low to be acceptable (especially heavy metals). 

[Bryan_S]

I'm not married to ChromaDex either but no one has found anyone else better after months of kicking this around. Zhengzhou Friend Biolongical Eenineering Co.,Ltd was the most promising Chinese source I'd found after running down 6 others who said they could supply it but this company has not been vetted. "Nicotinamide Riboside Medical grade Price:USD1540/KG" from Zhengzhou Friend Biolongical Eenineering Co.,Ltd URL from my earlier post a month ago.

They swore up and down this was the real article but so did the other suppliers. At $1.54 per gram that isn't bad but if it's the real thing how do they stabilize it, whats its shelf life?  From what I've read the molecule needs to be stabilized. Too many uncertainties, I wasn't going to lay out $1540 plus testing to find out. 

 

Right now at $4.48 US per gram until next Wednesday, June 25, 2014 from HPN I know what I'm getting and have experienced the results. They know how to stabilize it and this has been the main source of NR for study. Good luck please keep us in the loop.

 

[maxwatt]

 
The patent technique is not right. We changed raw material last week. Our engineer told the final product will have nice solubility in water. Their problem will be at the last step, the solvent residual. Small sample will be given to us around 24th, this month

 
Did you ask them what solvents they are using? I would be surprised if indeed the technique in the ChromaDex/Dartmouth College patent would be wrong. And do you plan to have the NR independently tested for purity, heavy metals, etc? Having a problem with residuals is not reassuring, it could be some nasty stuff. Hopefully they understand that we're aiming to take several grams a day of that stuff, so the various residuals and impurities must be extremely low to be acceptable (especially heavy metals). 

They are using the same solvents as the patent, only changed starting material. I am not at all surprised the patent method doesn't work: companies make their patents as misleading as possible while still covering their method. Makes it harder for competitors. And we have the resources to fully test what we get for id and purity. Do you think we are so dumb not to test?

[maxwatt]

@Bryan_S, we should be able to get 6 gram sample from "Zhengzhou Friend Bio". It's enough to test identity. The price is about right for the real thing. They should be willing to send such a sample.

[Primal]

 And we have the resources to fully test what we get for id and purity. Do you think we are so dumb not to test?

 

I dont think you guys are dumb, like Brian_S I registered here mostly to find a cheaper source for NR. I read through a few threads on NR but missed important posts. I was being Captain Obvious in saying that we need to be very concerned with purity, partly because the dosage for NR is quite high. 

 

Even when ind. tested, a lab will tell you the results like mercury < 10ppm (or 2ppm or whatever) but I would not like to take 40g/day of something that has 9ppm of mercury

 

If we find something that looks promising like Zhengzhou Friend Bio and after questionning them they seem very legit, if we cant get a sample to test maybe we could pool money and get 1 kg and have it tested. not sure about the exact logistic so that nobody get short changed

[smithx]

The "stabilization" is that the NR has been made into a chloride salt. My supplier said that they can do a chemical synthesis of NR but to get NR/Cl bacterial fermentation is required.

 

So based on that, if Zhengzhou Friend Bio is using a synthetic route, they will end up creating NR which is apparently ultra hygroscopic and will turn into a sludge in seconds when exposed to the air.

[Bryan_S]

The "stabilization" is that the NR has been made into a chloride salt. My supplier said that they can do a chemical synthesis of NR but to get NR/Cl bacterial fermentation is required.

 

So based on that, if Zhengzhou Friend Bio is using a synthetic route, they will end up creating NR which is apparently ultra hygroscopic and will turn into a sludge in seconds when exposed to the air.

 

Not to diss your source but so far there has been no legitimately confirmed manufacturers with the exception ChromaDex and certainly no new offerings on the immediate horizon.

 

Zhengzhou Friend Bio's product may or may not even be Nicotinamide Riboside anyway. If it is NR you may be right, it may turn into a sludge in seconds when exposed to the air.

 

All I know is right now we can buy it at $4.48 US per gram until next Wednesday, June 25, 2014 and no other source is tested and currently available. One thing I can be pretty sure of is I will have a supply while we continue this search. Also if experience is any predictor I'll likely run out of what I just purchased before we find a better deal.

 

I bought 45 grams and with the 2 bottles I have already have I could take a gram a day for the next 2 months until the next HPN discount offering.

 

You guys still haven't persuaded me I need to Megadose this stuff anyway because I feel the difference after 4 months already. For you younger guys I think its different and the effects are less pronounced. For me the brain fog has lifted, I'm more focused and feel sharp as a tack, I'm back on my VersaClimber which I didn't previously have the energy to use and the chronic joint inflammation I had from an old shattered ankle skydiving is almost gone. I've regained my mobility which is a major motivator for me going forward. Nothing else I've tried has worked, even recently returning to physical therapy for several months hasn't produced these kinds of results.

 

If I'm getting a placebo effect on a low dose so be it, I've got a positive feedback loop going and I'm not looking back.

[maxwatt]

smithx, if you have NR by synthesis, you can make the salt, NR:Cl. Fermentation not needed.

In a few months bulk powder from other sources will be available. Till then, use the best priced Chromadex Niagen if you can't wait.

[Primal]

sorry a bit off topic, do you guys know a source of high purity NAD? I would be curious to know where these "Brain Restoration Therapy" addiction clinics http://www.thefix.co...iction?page=all buy their NAD

[hav]

 

 

 
The patent technique is not right. We changed raw material last week. Our engineer told the final product will have nice solubility in water. Their problem will be at the last step, the solvent residual. Small sample will be given to us around 24th, this month

 
Did you ask them what solvents they are using? I would be surprised if indeed the technique in the ChromaDex/Dartmouth College patent would be wrong. And do you plan to have the NR independently tested for purity, heavy metals, etc? Having a problem with residuals is not reassuring, it could be some nasty stuff. Hopefully they understand that we're aiming to take several grams a day of that stuff, so the various residuals and impurities must be extremely low to be acceptable (especially heavy metals). 

They are using the same solvents as the patent, only changed starting material. I am not at all surprised the patent method doesn't work: companies make their patents as misleading as possible while still covering their method. Makes it harder for competitors. And we have the resources to fully test what we get for id and purity. Do you think we are so dumb not to test?

 

 

Looks like the US Supreme Court and the Federal Circuit which hears all patent appeals is getting tough on process patents... saying you cannot sue someone for doing some of the patented steps even it that induces a 3rd party, such as the end user, to complete them:

 

http://www.law.corne...urt/text/12-786

 

But the case isn't over yet and the high court has not ruled yet on the Federal Circuit rule for direct infringement of a process patent which states that a single party must perform or exercise "control or direction" over each step of the patented process.  No matter how you slice it, however, it doesn't bode well for the enforcement of process patents when different independent parties perform different steps. Perhaps the high court wants to leave open the possibility of enforcement if an actual conspiracy or something is proven.

 

Howard
 

Edited by hav, 23 June 2014 - 05:35 PM.

[Kevnzworld]

I tried to use the coupon code Longecity2 and I got a coupon not valid message. I am ordering 6 bottles.
Any Idea why?

[Bryan_S]

Posted Today, 06:45 PM

Kevnzworld, on 23 Jun 2014 - 4:12 PM, said:

I attempted to us the coupon code longecity2 but it didn't work. Any reason why?

 

It could be your browser or it could be your security settings. You can also go old fashion and pick up the phone, just a suggestion. Good luck

 

Again here is the link to the GROUP BUY that's good until Wednesday 6/25 . . .  which is now the day after tomorrow.

[follies]

I just used it and it worked. Price stays the same but a discount line is added below.

[Bryan_S]

I just used it and it worked. Price stays the same but a discount line is added below.

 

 

Some people noted some browser problems but it appears it worked for most of us.

 

The group buy expired yesterday and there were approximately 22 of us who participated. We narrowly surpassed the HPN minimum buy requirements to remain eligible and have been offered another discount opportunity in 2 months. Maybe some of you can help create a little anticipation so we can keep this going. We will hold this next GROUP BUY of Niagen sometime between August 15-20th. I'll organize it if you want me to remain in this roll or we can appoint another member?

 

Bryan

 

PS disclosure, other than receiving the same discount as you I've received no compensation or incentives from the distributer.

[borg389]

I bought 6 bottles, and it arrived within a few days. I'm not sure if it's doing anything but I've noticed that I'm not feeling as many pains like I think I had previously. But it could just be psychosomatic too. I really should make a daily journal so I can remember some of this stuff. Has anyone noticed any notable changes after taking this stuff? Other than the third arm, I mean.

[M-K]

Do you mean the third leg?  

[Primal]

 Has anyone noticed any notable changes after taking this stuff? Other than the third arm, I mean.

 

I've seen a user report that NR helped his prostatitis. You're saying it helped your "3rd leg"? more like stamina or more like stiffness? other people got similar side-effects?

[pedr0vsky]

I bought 6 bottles, and it arrived within a few days. I'm not sure if it's doing anything but I've noticed that I'm not feeling as many pains like I think I had previously. But it could just be psychosomatic too. I really should make a daily journal so I can remember some of this stuff. Has anyone noticed any notable changes after taking this stuff? Other than the third arm, I mean.

After taking it for several days at high dosages, more than 1g daily, i started feeling tired, incapable of focusing and with trouble sleeping.

http://www.researchg...of_nicotinamide

Given that sirtuins affect methylation processes, i though i was under methylated and started some choline. All symptoms disappeared after 1 week. Anyone else with the same symptoms?
 

 

 

 Has anyone noticed any notable changes after taking this stuff? Other than the third arm, I mean.

 

I've seen a user report that NR helped his prostatitis. You're saying it helped your "3rd leg"? more like stamina or more like stiffness? other people got similar side-effects?

 

I think he is referring to the placebo effect. I didn't find any differences in my erection.

Edited by pedr0vsky, 04 July 2014 - 10:46 AM.

[pedr0vsky]

After taking it for several days at high dosages, more than 1g daily, i started feeling tired, incapable of focusing and with trouble sleeping.

http://www.researchg...of_nicotinamide

Given that sirtuins affect methylation processes, ...
 

http://cancerres.aac.../69/5/1702.full
"SIRT1 induces histone deacetylation and methylation..."

Edited by pedr0vsky, 04 July 2014 - 10:55 AM.