693 replies to this topic

[StevesPetRat]

 Has anyone noticed any notable changes after taking this stuff? Other than the third arm, I mean.

 
I've seen a user report that NR helped his prostatitis. You're saying it helped your "3rd leg"? more like stamina or more like stiffness? other people got similar side-effects?

I believe it was a joke. Chuckled, myself.

[Primal]

 

 i though i was under methylated and started some choline. 
 

 

 

 

does choline even work as a methyl donor for primates? maybe just a bit in the liver?

[pedr0vsky]

 

 

 i though i was under methylated and started some choline. 
 

 

 

 

does choline even work as a methyl donor for primates? maybe just a bit in the liver?

 

http://jn.nutrition....32/8/2333S.long

Choline is necessary to form SAMe, SAMe is a very important methyl donor.

[Primal]

 

Choline is necessary to form SAMe

 

 

thats not true at all. 

[pedr0vsky]

 

 

Choline is necessary to form SAMe

 

 

thats not true at all. 

 

http://www.jbc.org/c...7/19/17217.long

"DNA methylation influences the expression of some genes and depends upon the availability of methyl groups from S-adenosylmethionine (SAM). Dietary methyl groups derive from foods that contain methionine, one-carbon units and choline (or the choline metabolite betaine). Humans ingest ∼50 mmol of methyl groups per day; 60% of them are derived from choline."

[Primal]

None of the stuff you cite imply that choline is necessary to form SAMe. Also, choline is not necessary to form SAMe.

 

Furthermore, this quote from the research paper

 

 Humans ingest ∼50 mmol of methyl groups per day; 60% of them are derived from choline."

 

 

shows that they have no idea what they are talking about. Unfortunately, it happens often in research. Publish or Perish. For example, glucose is a methyl donor (via serine). 50 mmol of glucose is only 9 grams.

 

Specifically regarding choline/betaine, they are good methyl donors for rodents but not for primates. 

[pedr0vsky]

None of the stuff you cite imply that choline is necessary to form SAMe. Also, choline is not necessary to form SAMe.

 

Furthermore, this quote from the research paper

 

 Humans ingest ∼50 mmol of methyl groups per day; 60% of them are derived from choline."

 

 

shows that they have no idea what they are talking about. Unfortunately, it happens often in research. Publish or Perish. For example, glucose is a methyl donor (via serine). 50 mmol of glucose is only 9 grams.

 

Specifically regarding choline/betaine, they are good methyl donors for rodents but not for primates. 

On your first statement, wikipedia seems to disagree with you. I know wikipedia its not a reliable source of information, but can you back up your statement?  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Choline
 

Role in humans[edit] Physiology[edit]

Choline metabolism.

"Choline and its metabolites are needed for three main physiological purposes: ... and a major source for methyl groups via its metabolite, trimethylglycine (betaine), which participates in the S-adenosylmethionine(SAMe) synthesis pathways."

The image disagrees with you also, can you explain better or prove your claims?
I have no background on biology, i understand very little of it. Are you an expert in the field, or have some course on it? If choline its not a good source, what is a good source of methyl groups in humans? Thanks for your help.

[borg389]

 

 Has anyone noticed any notable changes after taking this stuff? Other than the third arm, I mean.

 
I've seen a user report that NR helped his prostatitis. You're saying it helped your "3rd leg"? more like stamina or more like stiffness? other people got similar side-effects?

I believe it was a joke. Chuckled, myself.

 

Yes, I apologize if I confused anyone. Jokes are problematic when posted on an international board.

I'm still taking the pills. Trying to figure out how to convince my sister to try it.

Has anyone tried getting a medical workup done before and after? Blood test, blood pressure, etc?

[Bryan_S]

FYI High Performance Nutrition (HPN) sent me the specifics of this months 30% discount offering for Niagen | Nicotinamide Riboside. See URL

[Primal]

@Bryan_S, we should be able to get 6 gram sample from "Zhengzhou Friend Bio". It's enough to test identity. The price is about right for the real thing. They should be willing to send such a sample.

 

Any updates from Zhengzhou Friend Bio or other suppliers?

[D Mason]

On the third party testing. 

 

Funny Chromadex the company that holds the patents, does product testing.   But I imagin that they would not be a good choice for this job.   I do agree, it's absolutely essential to have the chinese product tested.

 

On another interesting note, often with libido boosters, the manufacturer will throw in some viagra, which is very illegal, but they do this because their re order rate goes through the roof.    I mention this, just as an example of why it's important to always look for 3rd party testing when buying supplements.

 

To test the chinese batch, I could be wrong, but I believe what you'll want is called Identity testing.  You'll have to look at the molecular structure to verify it's actually NR.   It should cost between $400 and $1000.  There's a company called Eurofin that can probably do it.    I don't think it matters, much that you're a group of consumers.  You could always say you're a new company and are just starting to get your feet off the ground.

 

[pedr0vsky]

http://www.chemspide...e.10136936.html

Under chemical vendors there are two sources of NR. Anyone tried any of them? Someone please do, and share with us. (i don't have the time)

[APBT]

Are there any updates on alternative sources for NR?

 

This site states, “…we can perform custom-synthesis projects on 100-3000g”  http://www.tht.co/

I’ve never used them, so I can’t vouch for their reliability or credibility.  

[midas]

Are there any updates on alternative sources for NR?

 

This site states, “…we can perform custom-synthesis projects on 100-3000g”  http://www.tht.co/

I’ve never used them, so I can’t vouch for their reliability or credibility.  

 

They don't list NR and the site is very sketchy (no address, telephone number, nothing). My friends 9 year old son has a website with more information than that.

[Morhaq]

Some links to the providers (not checked).

try looking the RN by CAS (1341-23-7) number, its easier to find something.

Im also interested in purchasing medium quantity of this for 3-8 gram day dose testing.

http://www.lookchem..../1341-23-7.html

http://www.chemexper.../1341-23-7.html

Hope I helped.

Edited by Morhaq, 08 December 2014 - 02:23 AM.

[Bryan_S]

New HPN group buy offer, new NR product offering.

 

The extra weight in each serving is a special organic vegetable inulin they use to stabilize the Nicotinamide Riboside. Here is how it works out.

NR Powder Nicotinamide Riboside with (HPN Promo code longecitypowder) $36.50/bottle (7.5 g NR per bottle) = $4.87 per gram

 

I'm told this formulation is designed more for our sublingual users and the inulin adds only a few cents per serving. I'm told this smooths out the taste and I look forward to checking it out.

[midas]

Thanks Bryan, I completely missed the group buy, for some reason my link to that thread had switched off. I have just bought this powder for now, so thanks for posting this up.

And can I take this opportunity to thank you for keeping this group buy alive, it is very much appreciated...

[pleiotropic]

what's the purity of this one?  any independent test? wasn't the previous one tested and found to have a relatively high nicotinamide content which may do the opposite of NR, especially when taken in large amounts as needed for NR?  

[Bryan_S]

what's the purity of this one?  

 

 

It's the same Niagen from the same vetted supplier at HPN. You just have the choice between 2 different products now, this one is just aimed more at our sublingual users. The total amount of NR in each product offering is exactly the same at 7.5 grams per bottle and 60 servings per bottle. The slight price difference is the new organic vegetable inulin base they use to stabilize the Nicotinamide Riboside. The effective dose of NR per scoop is still 125 mg, so what ever your desired intake is its based on the scoop vs the 125mg capsule.

 

From what I've gathered this product was developed from the huge sublingual demand from the Australian market. Maybe those guys can give us their insights since they had a hand in producing this product.

 

I'm one of those sublingual users however I'm already sitting on 12 bottles of the capsules so I'll be listening to you guys for the first evaluations.

 

Just so every one understands the group buy for the capsules will still continue uninterrupted.

 

Edited by Bryan_S, 29 December 2014 - 05:46 PM.

[smithx]

Hey are there still group buys / discounts coming up for this product?

 

[Bryan_S]

smithx, Our next HPN offer will be on or around August 15th. The announcements moved into a dedicated thread.

[smithx]

Thanks Bryan

[Hip]

Why buy nicotinamide riboside, which I believe is a precursor to the desired nicotinamide adenine dinucleotide (NAD+)?

 

Why not buy NAD+ itself?

 

NAD+ is available here and here.

 

 

[maxwatt]

Because taking NAD+ doesn't raise intracellular NAD+ levels, you have to trick cells into making it by sneaking precursors into the metabolic cycle.

[Bryan_S]

Why buy nicotinamide riboside, which I believe is a precursor to the desired nicotinamide adenine dinucleotide (NAD+)?

 

Why not buy NAD+ itself?

 

NAD+ is available here and here.

 

There is a little more to this question, NAD is a large and chemically sensitive molecule.

 

The digestive system is also a rather harsh environment. If the NAD molecule could make it past the first hurdle of digestive absorption, it still has to gain access thru the cell membrane. All of the most recent research suggests the more complicated precursors get broken down at this hurdle including extracellular NAD. So it appears NMN and NADH and NAD get reduced at this barrier and get reassembled within the cell. 

 

NR on the other hand has transport enzymes to assist in its absorption at the cell membrane. 

 

PnuC transporters

 

"Only NR can be utilized by the PnuC transport system located in the inner membrane (Herbert et al., 2003; Sauer et al., 2004). The pnuC gene product is the protein that is responsible for the main flow of the NR substrate into the cytoplasm."

 

"Despite the considerable progress in the understanding of the mechanisms of NAD biosynthesis during the past decade, several fundamental questions still remain unanswered. So far, little is known about the molecular mechanisms underlying the interconversions of the key NAD intermediates and the relationships between their intra- and extracellular pools. Recent studies have established that all known NAD metabolites can serve as extracellular precursors of intracellular NAD (12). However, most likely, extracellular nucleotides need to be degraded to their corresponding ribosides (NR or NAR), which then enter cells as NAD precursors." http://www.jbc.org/c...664458.full.pdf

 

So it appears of the more complicated NAD precursors Nicotinamide Riboside and Nicotinic Acid Riboside are the simplest common denominators. We also posted on this topic last month. "There is more and more data accumulating that suggests NMN is cleaved to NR at the cell membrane and reassembled within the cell."  "Our results demonstrate that, besides nicotinamide and nicotinic acid, only the corresponding nucleosides readily enter the cells. Nucleotides (e.g. NAD and NMN) undergo extracellular degradation resulting in the formation of permeable precursors." 

 

Here is another recent Longecity post on the topic.

 

So we are left with 4 NAD precursors that readily pass the cell membrane unchanged NaR, Na, Nam and NR. What gives NR or NaR (NaR if we could get it) a leg up on the other precursors is (NMRK1 & NMRK2) nicotinamide riboside kinase 1 or 2. These are expressed in varying degrees in different cell types but the point is they convert these 2 precursors directly to NMN which is one step away from NAD. So in effect these 2 precursors cut to the front of the line at the cell membrane and again inside the cell in the NAD salvage cycle. The salvage cycle is the circular part of the diagram below.

 

 

The question is what's to be gained by supplementing with a molecule which will in all likelihood be broken down before it gets to its destination? Also you have to consider the cost of NAD which is currently more than NR. Hope that helps.  

Edited by Bryan_S, 02 October 2015 - 03:51 PM.

[DREAMARROW]

I bought this on Amazon as it's a little cheaper than the HPN version, another difference is each capsule contains 250mg rather than 125mg like HPN. 

Is there a group buy on nicotinamide riboside in the near future? I'd like to participate. 

 

http://www.amazon.co..._=sr_1_2&sr=8-2

 

thanks

[OjaiAlchemy]

I got a reply from a MFG in NY called BOC Sciences who responded to me with some emails I posted in my introduction post but basically saying no they can;t supply NR but they can supply NR Triflate and have a smaple they can send but it would be a custom synthesis. (I also attached their PDF on the company) I responded that I actually needed NR HCL and she responded with the following:

____________________

 

Hello Eric,

 

Thank you for your mail! We can offer HCL form of nicotinamide riboside to you. However, we have to make it upon receiving of purchase order. If you are interested in custom synthesis quote, please let us know the quantity and your target price for it. Your feedback is highly appreciated!

 

Best wishes,

 

Reta Lu

_______________________

 

What do you guys think? Is it worth following up? They require you to be a company or researcher etc.. Maybe some of you have better creds for this? They sound pretty credible..

 

Attached Files

•  BOC Sciences_Custom Synthesis.pdf   1.41MB   3 downloads

[OjaiAlchemy]

Also, if I do respond, what would a REALISTIC target price be for a KG?  Maybe 25%- 50% of the group buy price?

[Bryan_S]

Is there a group buy on nicotinamide riboside in the near future? I'd like to participate. 

 

thanks

 

I just posted the next LongeCity Group Buy from HPN.

 

I'm working on some dosage regiments from questions I'm getting on the Nicotinamide Riboside Current News and Updates thread. "The oral presentation and poster presented data which indicate that single doses of NIAGEN® NR can elevate the co-enzyme NAD+ in the blood by as much as 2.7-fold. In the first-in-humans clinical trial which involved dosing twelve healthy adult subjects, the group showed that blood cell NAD+ increased with single 100 mg, 300 mg and 1 gram doses of NIAGEN® NR. Average maximal increases in blood NAD+ were approximately 30% at the 100 mg dose and approximately 50% at the higher doses. Increases in blood NAD+ tended to be sustained for longer times at higher doses." http://investors.chr...icle&ID=2078998

 

So 300 mg and 1 gram doses both produced a 50% rise in NAD+ that's interesting. So as far as I can tell any higher than 300 milligrams and we might as well wait for the half life falloff and re-dose to maintain a consistent ceiling. Currently I'm looking at 250mg initially followed by 125mg taken every 2 hours until 1000mg/per/day is reached. That regiment spans 12-hours and if correct there is a slow rise in blood serum levels from 250mg to 405mg by hour 12. 

 

I'm working on additional tables as well and they are currently being reviewed and I'll post them on the NR Updates thread as soon as we get some confirmation to this approach. Considering the rough Half-life Data that I have from 2014 I've worked my way threw multiple successive dosage calculations with different capsule dosages and its growing pretty apparent the control you can get with the 125mg capsules vs the 250mg capsules enables you to smooth out the peaks and valleys and makes adjusting the dose easier to maintain a constant blood level than using the larger capsules. More later.

[Bryan_S]

HPN has given our members an option between our normal discount cycles. http://www.longecity...e-8#entry754201