• Log in with Facebook Log in with Twitter Log In with Google      Sign In    
  • Create Account
  LongeCity
              Advocacy & Research for Unlimited Lifespans

Photo
- - - - -

My Experience with Nefiracetam: Risks and Rewards

nefiracetam experience nootropic

  • Please log in to reply
9 replies to this topic

#1 Jonathan Moy de Vitry

  • Guest
  • 24 posts
  • 28
  • Location:Göteborg, Sweden

Posted 29 December 2013 - 08:00 PM


Hi everyone

You may not recognize me because I don't post much on Longecity, but I have lurked around it a lot over the last year.

Today I'd like to contribute some observations I made over the two months I experimented with nefiracetam this spring. I've found that there's not much hard personal data on the internets about the effects of this unusual and highly potent nootropic, so I hope that every little extra bit of info I can provide will help inform curious users' decisions.

Anyway, let's start with a bit of background:

I'm a 27 year-old male bicycle courier with a history of severe PI ADHD and a few smidgeons of OCD thrown in for good measure. Although I have an IQ in the 140+ range, I've often had trouble performing even the simplest of tasks that require working memory, such as counting. This has considerably limited my professional and academic success. But things are getting better. Over the last 8 years I've been learning to use mindfulness and daily doses of Ritalin to become at least semi-functional and my life improves every year that passes.

Now, as I began to work on my master's thesis last January, I knew I was going to have to acquire some new "tools" if I was going to succeed. My mental capacity at the time just wasn't sufficient to undertake such a complex project. So, I began to experiment with various nootropics, keeping a detailed spreadsheet with precise dosages and a composite assessment of how I felt/performed each day.

I started with noopept (greatly improves cycling, creativity, fluid intelligence, enhances appreciation of music and art, leaves me edgy),

continued with aniracetam (very, very, very good for linguistic abilities and socializing, sharpens senses, tolerance builds quickly),

dabbled in oxiracetam (speedy and euphoric but useless for being useful),

tinkered with phenylpiracetam (surprisingly didn't feel a thing),

supplemented with choline bitartrate (only helps if I have the 'racetam headache),

popped some piracetam (no effect on focus yet makes me cognitively smarter--but I don't really need more of that when I can't even count, do I?),

and tested some pramiracetam (brings intense focus at the expense of turning me slightly autistic).


While many of the above noots had strong positive effects, I still had this nagging desire to know if something even better was out there. And it was this creeping curiosity, in combination with the fact I was still struggling with my thesis, that led me to try nefiracetam despite reports on its toxicity in animals. Also, since I had liked aniracetam so much for its AMPA effects, I thought nef could provide similar benefits.


The Pros

From my first dose, I knew nefiracetam was wonder drug, even in small quantities (30 mg 3 x a day, I weigh 76kg). I would take it in a capsule and minutes later my senses would light up, almost as if I was waking up from a perpetual semi-conscious state. As one other poster on this forum similarly put it, I could barely believe that such a potent compound was legal. Even better, from a functional perspective, was that I wouldn't experience any psychedelia such as intense colors (à la noopept), excessively deep thoughts (piracetam), or irrational euphoria (oxiracetam). I simply felt very awake, aware, and present, which was just the right state for me to be productive. It precisely counteracted the effects of the ADHD inattentiveness.

In total, I used nefiracetam for about two months, or nearly until the end of my thesis project, which went on to win an award from the Swedish innovation agency (I even got to meet the next prime minister because of it). All-in-all, I think I can say fairly objectively that I performed quite well under the influence of nef, even if I can't quantify how much it contributed to my success. I doubt I would have been able to finish my thesis without it, let alone win an award. I'm also pleased to say that it shifted my thinking patterns and made me more methodical, an effect that persists even today (is this LTP related?)

But, as the title of this post indicates, nef has its dark side.


The Cons

Despite using very low dosages so as to avoid the complications noted during animal studies, nefiracetam certainly burdened me with some bad side-effects.

First of all, it does mess with your urinary tract. As much as I wanted to ignore it, nefiracetam made me...dribble. Shortly after I began dosing, I had a difficult time urinating without having some urine leak into my pants after I had finished. Unless I changed my underpants after every bathroom break I would smell like an incontinent bum. These symptoms bring to mind the Japanese studies showing renal toxicity in dogs. Fortunately, the problem vanished quite quickly after I stopped taking nef, so I'm hopeful that no long-term damage was done.

The second major problem that I had while taking nefiracetam was the surging dysphoria and overstimulation that took hold of me near the end of the second month of dosing. While it may be unfair to pin these symptoms on nefiracetam alone given the stress of working on a thesis in an isolated environment (Swedish winters aren't very social), I still thought they had a "chemical" sort of feel to them. Like the comedown you get in the aftermath of using illicit rave substances. It was these symptoms that made me stop taking nef, weeks before the hand-in date for my thesis. Unlike the dribbling, it took several months of beautiful Swedish summer before I began to feel like myself again.


To Conclude

I love neuroscience, but I am no neuroscientist. What I've written here is only anecdotal evidence on the potentials and pitfalls of nefiracetam use in one individual, me. Don't let my imperfect experience with it prevent you from experimenting with it too. If you do decide to try it, do so very cautiously and stop taking it at the slightest occurrence of side-effects.

Hopefully, with all the research that is going into compounds targeting AMPA receptors, something similar to nefiracetam (but without the side-effects) will come to market over the next 10 years. It just works.



Jon
  • like x 5

#2 Geoffrey

  • Guest
  • 218 posts
  • 38
  • Location:UK

Posted 09 January 2014 - 06:31 AM

This is a great account! Thank you very much for sharing it. It might have got more attention if you'd posted it in the Brain Health section rather than in the "stacks" section, as it's not strictly about a stack, but about the effects of a particular substance. More people should read it. I've never tried nefiracetam, though it has always intrigued me. It would be great to know if anyone can corroborate the urinary tract issues, as well as the dysphoria after continued use.

sponsored ad

  • Advert
Rent this spot in Nootropics Topics to support Longecity (this will replace the google ad).

#3 boythatssomebreath

  • Guest
  • 88 posts
  • 7
  • Location:Ohio
  • NO

Posted 11 January 2014 - 12:23 AM

Yes, thanks for the account, Jon. I have some on the way from NSN... should be interesting :)

#4 Jonathan Moy de Vitry

  • Topic Starter
  • Guest
  • 24 posts
  • 28
  • Location:Göteborg, Sweden

Posted 12 January 2014 - 04:50 PM

Thanks for the feedback guys :) I was beginning to think no one was going to read this! You think I could repost without getting in trouble with the moderators?

#5 meth_use_lah

  • Guest
  • 72 posts
  • 11
  • Location:Europe

Posted 14 January 2014 - 11:26 AM

Nefiracetam has had the most pronounced effect in me of any nootropic I've tried, crisper and wider vision and an altered more relaxed/objective state of mind. However unfortunately I've felt renal discomfort while using it,
pressure slight pain in kidney area -> semi blocked ureters pain -> pain similar to low intensity "thousand needles"/"indian rug burn" in the bladder. I've had a physically disformed ureter which made it very hard for one of my kidneys to pass liquid to the bladder, the kidney/ureter pain feels similar to that. The pain dissipates after a couple of days. I stopped taking it after noticing and confirming this.

Nefiracetam is metabolized by CYP3A4, and I believe I've read that the renal toxicity is due to low levels of prostaglandin. So if you're going to test nefi make sure you're not eating/taking anything inhibiting them.

Edited by meth_use_lah, 14 January 2014 - 11:29 AM.


#6 Jonathan Moy de Vitry

  • Topic Starter
  • Guest
  • 24 posts
  • 28
  • Location:Göteborg, Sweden

Posted 15 January 2014 - 04:58 PM

So this renal/ureter thing is starting to seem like more than just an anecdote, eh?

#7 boythatssomebreath

  • Guest
  • 88 posts
  • 7
  • Location:Ohio
  • NO

Posted 16 January 2014 - 12:16 PM

100mg of Nefiracetam with 150 mg of CDP Choline = absolutely nothing for me. No negative side effects, but definitely no positives of any kind. On to 125mg...

#8 meth_use_lah

  • Guest
  • 72 posts
  • 11
  • Location:Europe

Posted 16 January 2014 - 12:48 PM

Yes, I've seen several anecdotes on other forums where kidney pain etc is mentioned, although I've seen reports of no side effects as well.
I just discovered that bacopa monnieri inhibits prostaglandin synthesis, which I consumed at the same time I tried nefiracetam.

I suppose it's possible that everyone reporting side effects from nefiracetam, is consuming some herb/diet that inadvertently inhibits prostaglandin synthesis and/or CYP3A4.

Known Prostaglandin inhibitors:
  • NSAIDS
  • COX(-2) inhibitors (example of herbs, bacopa monnieri. turmeric/curcumin, possibly certain antioxidants/polyphenols )
  • Corticosteroids
  • Cyclopentenone
  • Omega 3s increase some types of prostaglandins and reduce others by competing with omega-6 for the use of enzymes.
  • Metabolite M-18 from nefiracetam.
" The basal prostaglandin synthesis in canine renal papillary slices was extremely low relative to those in rats and monkeys. Taken together, certain factors such as basal prostaglandin synthesis, M-18 penetration into the renal papilla leading to an intrarenal gradient, and inhibitory potential of M-18 on prostaglandin synthesis were considered to be crucial for the occurrence of renal papillary necrosis in dogs." http://www.ncbi.nlm....pubmed/12954368

So POSSIBLY chronic use of nefiracetam w/o prostaglandin inhibition could be safe, or even safer non-chronic use since nefiracetam through M-18 indirectly inhibits prostaglandin synthesis.

I am very much a laymen and do not know any details of prostaglandin synthesis/ifferences between types prostaglandins, drug metabolism etc, so do your own research if your considering trying nefiracetam.
(I'll probably try it again sometime when I'm not consuming something anti inflammatory for my chronic sinusitis.)

Edited by meth_use_lah, 16 January 2014 - 12:51 PM.


#9 Jonathan Moy de Vitry

  • Topic Starter
  • Guest
  • 24 posts
  • 28
  • Location:Göteborg, Sweden

Posted 26 January 2014 - 04:13 PM

Interesting insights, M_U_L.

How long have would you test nef at a time?

sponsored ad

  • Advert
Rent this spot in Nootropics Topics to support Longecity (this will replace the google ad).

#10 xsiv1

  • Guest
  • 463 posts
  • 39
  • Location:Canada

Posted 27 January 2014 - 10:06 PM

I was looking to try this after what I'd only call, less than stellar, effects from long term use of Piracetam (over a year), better effects with Aniracetam, yet better with phenylpiracetam (although I used it sporadically i.e. 2-3 days per week tops) and perhaps the best results with Noopept on a 2 month on, 1 month off fashion.

What attracted me to it initially, was the statement I read from Science Guy, stating that it modulated Gaba and even acted as an agonist at various receptors. Given my propensity towards Gaba-acting compounds (not a good thing from experience), with the exception of nearly any benzodiazepine since they all inevitably make me want sleep...this nootropic was on my to-do list. I'm now going to lean more towards Coluracetam and perhaps the PRL compound. I purchased a couple small vials of Sunifiram, and never even opened the seals on them because of some of the negative reports coming out. Most adverse reports were exacerbated by concurrent use of some stimulant as low on the totem pole as caffeine. I decided against it since coffee, is one of my last remaining vices at 3 and sometimes 4 cups per day.

I wanted to thank you for your concise report and sharing the experience. I finished my Master's degree in 2000, and it was no small feat. Using two research methodologies (at my advisor's prodding) from two schools of thought, not having strict deadlines and a developing penchant for alcohol made the research both slow and overwhelming. Had I not met a girl in Grad school who cheered me on and made me want to finish, I may have not. She later became my wife.
Good luck Jon and thanks again because, as you've stated, there isn't much out there on nefiracetam.

Edited by xsiv1, 27 January 2014 - 10:13 PM.






Also tagged with one or more of these keywords: nefiracetam, experience, nootropic

10 user(s) are reading this topic

0 members, 10 guests, 0 anonymous users