57 replies to this topic

[Adamzski]

I am going to order another bottle of C60, I have had two bottles of the VA type previously.
Always have taken one full dropper daily.

First bottle I did not notice these effects so much but the second bottle of VA C60 seemed to taste more bitter and had more of a throat burn, I have heard this is through a higher quality OO.

When I take it daily I am able to sleep many many hours of the day, I dont feel constantly tired but I do find it hard to put in extended hours like staying awake for a day or two..

Has anyone else had these effects? In what way could C60 be making me sleep so much?

Really just the sleep and a very long eyebrow hair, a hair that almost reached my mouth, these are the only things I noticed. This changed when I stopped, I went back to 6hrs per day sleep and and a few eyebrow hairs growing crazy are the only things that I can 100% attribute to C60. I was taking no other sups at the time except for a protein shake every day or two.

Here is part of my log, it is very out of the ordinary for me to sleep a lot. It seems a little confusing, but basically I have never been the type to doze off but I found it possible to sleep on chairs/busses/plains

Well I travelled 42 hours since wednesday evening, taiwan a few hours then singapore for 19hrs stay then AU. I was on a plane 16hrs total and I slept more than 14hrs of this time, 6hrs of it was in the middle isle where I never would be able to sleep. I got to AU 11:30 yesterday, went to lol my friends factory where I am residing,, and slept another 8hrs. Hope this sleep catches up with me again leaving me with no eye bags.
Sleeping on planes would be impossible usually, I would get some but there would be 5hrs of clock watching hell as well on a long leg of the journey. I never did once start to almost panic and wanna jump out the window instead of endure the time haha. I just went back to sleep.

I have a log here http://www.longecity...ki/page__st__30

[niner]

That's a weird result. I have no idea what's going on, but it sounds like your body is getting the sleep that it actually needs. It's sort of inconvenient if you'd really rather burn the candle at both ends, but it's got to be better for you to sleep 8 hours a day. Most people would consider that a good effect. There have been a couple reports of people sleeping better. That's a side effect I wouldn't mind having...

[Adamzski]

Thanks, I did sleep and felt the need to sleep much more than 10-12hrs. I usually do work long hours but at that time I just couldnt fight sleep, when I was tired I would go drop into bed and sleep 10hrs wake up for an hour two then sleep another 6 sometimes. Hard to describe but it was like I was at peace or something.

I did have a very long period of very long hours and constant wakeup then work until I sleep again for 4 months prior to that time on C60. But periods of crazy working hours are nothing new to me and I never would be able to sleep like that before C60 and I never have slept like that ever in my life.

It is a fairly drastic change, I did not feel much different besides of course being much better rested. Someone said it could be toxic effects, but I would expect to have other side effects if I was making myself sick. If I hit the Gym, eat well and sleep like that again then I would get seriously huge. It is very out of the ordinary that amount of sleeping for an insomniac workaholic like me, I am past my large amounts of work that were needed to launch my project and do have the time to sleep 12hrs a day but yeah just not sure what is happening in my body to make me spend that much time sleeping.

It is a little bit of a gamble taking this stuff but I will go another bottle and see what happens.

[tintinet]

I also sleep much more since taking C60 EVOO. I really never took naps until I started taking it, but now I take them frequently, and when I don't have to get up for anything scheduled, like today, I'll sleep for over 12 hours and, even then, feel little motivation to get up. It hasn't bothered me during working days, for the most part, somehow, but I certainly now spend much more of my "free" time asleep.

Edited by tintinet, 03 January 2014 - 01:25 AM.

[Hebbeh]

Yeah, I believe it may increase my sleep also. After 1.5 yrs of C60/EVOO daily without a break, my sleep has increased from a max of 6 hrs (often less) to now more commonly 7 hrs and I also find myself sneaking a couple hour nap in on the weekends as if I feel the need to "catch up". I had thought it was work related but now beginning to think otherwise. I seem to sleep more like from what I remember from my teenage years. I have wondered the possible mechanism of this.

[Hebbeh]

Just missed the edit timeout....but the thought came to mind... prior to C60, I would usually take 400mg of magnesium prior to bed just to get a solid 5 hrs but I've quit taking magnesium quite some time ago because even 200mg now aggravates the desire to sleep longer and would leave me feeling a little "groggy" the next morning. I never had that degree of effect from magnesium before and I had used magnesium for years. Occasionally, I will still take 200mg of magnesium if I want a little extra sleep on the weekends and it will still cause me to sleep in for 8+ hrs with the "groggy" after effect. How could C60 be intensifying the effect of magnesium...or vice versa?

[JohnD60]

I have not experienced this, but I have never taken it daily. I started every three days, and am now at every ten days. I am not a doctor, and I am hypersensitive to Liver stress because of a bad reaction I had to a drug, but I would be observant of other symptoms of Liver stress, such as pale skin and pain in the upper right abdomen.

[quarter]

I'm on my 3rd bottle of SV C60 taking 1 full pipette a day and I've also been experiencing this increased desire, and ability, to sleep. I usually sleep for 8 hours a night but since adding C60 to my regime I have had to go to bed a whole 2 hrs earlier, plus if I'm off work I'll also sleep for 2 hours during the day. That is around 12 hours of sleep without really feeling rested. Obviously this amount of sleep is negatively affecting my productivity. I also dropped the occasional 300mg melatonin I previously took.

I haven't noticed any other effects of C60. My sporting performance, quantitatively measured in terms of weight lifted and track times over a number of years (I keep training logs) has not noticeably been affected.

Edited by quarter, 03 January 2014 - 09:02 AM.

[quarter]

Typo above - should read 300 mcg of melatonin.

[cuprous]

This is very interesting.. That Adamskzi's sleep returns to normal after the cessation of c60oo is a good sign. If we all started getting tired after prolonged c60 supplementation I would start to really worry about the stem cell pool depletion theory. Keep up the reports.

[d4shing]

You should cut your eyebrow hairs well before they reach your mouth, IMO.

[Adamzski]

LOL yep eyebrow hairs should be cut before reaching your mouth.. Girlfriends are great to have around for keeping check on these type of things.. I have always had a few eyebrow hairs that grow long about 4cm that I do end up cutting or plucking, but these few super long eyebrow hairs seemed to turn up overnight. I would have noticed hairs growing that long for sure but just one day I looked in the mirror and seen it. never have had this again.

here is a world record holder who says he took a few years to grow the hair http://www.bookofjoe...nches-long.html
My eyebrow hair definitely went to the bottom of my nose, seemed comparable to his world record effort.

And my sleeping did return to normal. I was taking C60 almost everyday June of last year and then a dose per week for a month or two. Over the weekend I stayed awake 24hrs Friday to Saturday then slept 6hrs and woke again to spend another 30hr period awake, Got 9hrs of sleep last night/today and now will try to sleep again. My sleep is getting ruined a little through ecigs I think as I am intensely dreaming then waking full of energy and unable to sleep again. Its common for me to skip a night per week of sleep.

[resting]

• Acute sleep deprivation leads to the up-regulation of ER stress response genes and proteins, specifically the chaperone BiP, in the brains of all species studied. Thus, sleep deprivation is injurious to cells.
• The ER stress response/Unfolded Protein Response is cytoprotective and helps the brain deal with the adverse consequences of sleep deprivation.
• This protective unfolded protein response is impaired with aging, and sleep deprivation in older animals has more profound injurious effects on cells.

[Chupo]

Are the only ones experiencing increased need for sleep the ones who are taking C60 daily? I haven't experienced it but I've been dosing weekly to monthly. The magnesium theory sounds interesting. I did experience increased sleep/lethargy when I first began Vitamin D but it was transient and only lasted three days. I was thinking that increased absorption of magnesium might have been responsible for that too.

[trance]

LOL yep eyebrow hairs should be cut before reaching your mouth.. Girlfriends are great to have around for keeping check on these type of things.. I have always had a few eyebrow hairs that grow long about 4cm that I do end up cutting or plucking, but these few super long eyebrow hairs seemed to turn up overnight. I would have noticed hairs growing that long for sure but just one day I looked in the mirror and seen it. never have had this again.

Interesting ... I've had the same long eyebrow overnight phenomena as well, about 3-4 times now -- only 1.5 - 2.0 inches long though in my case. It's a very thin long eyebrow hair, looks like only a few cells wide, and you say to yourself "Why didn't I notice this yesterday??!" as you pluck it out. I dose C60 only on weekends though. I'll have to make a note of the next time, look at it under a microscope.

[Chupo]

LOL yep eyebrow hairs should be cut before reaching your mouth.. Girlfriends are great to have around for keeping check on these type of things.. I have always had a few eyebrow hairs that grow long about 4cm that I do end up cutting or plucking, but these few super long eyebrow hairs seemed to turn up overnight. I would have noticed hairs growing that long for sure but just one day I looked in the mirror and seen it. never have had this again.

Interesting ... I've had the same long eyebrow overnight phenomena as well, about 3-4 times now -- only 1.5 - 2.0 inches long though in my case. It's a very thin long eyebrow hair, looks like only a few cells wide, and you say to yourself "Why didn't I notice this yesterday??!" as you pluck it out. I dose C60 only on weekends though. I'll have to make a note of the next time, look at it under a microscope.

That's interesting as the ones I get are very thick. Much thicker than the normal hairs. I pluck them in hopes of damaging the root enough that they'll become thinner or go away. It hasn't worked though.

[kenj]

Thanks, I did sleep and felt the need to sleep much more than 10-12hrs. I usually do work long hours but at that time I just couldnt fight sleep, when I was tired I would go drop into bed and sleep 10hrs wake up for an hour two then sleep another 6 sometimes. Hard to describe but it was like I was at peace or something.

Interesting, I think I've had that same experience a couple times since taking C60. I never slept these monster 10-12 hours before. C60 also acutely makes me very relaxed, and if I take it with some food with dinner I could doze off like minutes after. That could simply be low bs or bp though, - I'm not sure.

I also sleep much more since taking C60 EVOO. I really never took naps until I started taking it, but now I take them frequently, and when I don't have to get up for anything scheduled, like today, I'll sleep for over 12 hours and, even then, feel little motivation to get up. It hasn't bothered me during working days, for the most part, somehow, but I certainly now spend much more of my "free" time asleep.

IIRC, you were 'one of those guys' that could get by with very little sleep, 4-6 h/night? If that's understood correctly, can you still function on these few hours since taking C60, or do you seem to "require" more sleep now?

[stephen_b]

One thought: maybe the dosage is too high. It might be worth it to dose 5 days or so at a half pipette's worth.

[JBForrester]

This is very interesting.. That Adamskzi's sleep returns to normal after the cessation of c60oo is a good sign. If we all started getting tired after prolonged c60 supplementation I would start to really worry about the stem cell pool depletion theory. Keep up the reports.

What's the stem cell pool depletion theory?

[cuprous]

This is very interesting.. That Adamskzi's sleep returns to normal after the cessation of c60oo is a good sign. If we all started getting tired after prolonged c60 supplementation I would start to really worry about the stem cell pool depletion theory. Keep up the reports.

What's the stem cell pool depletion theory?

IIRC it is basically that the positive effects from c60 are due to it causing our stem cells to differentiate rapidly. The concern is we'll continue to feel dandy until they run out after which we will age rapidly like something out of a bad sci-fi movie.

I don't see this worry being raised much recently but, in the end, we really don't know for sure how c60oo helps.

[niner]

What's the stem cell pool depletion theory?

IIRC it is basically that the positive effects from c60 are due to it causing our stem cells to differentiate rapidly. The concern is we'll continue to feel dandy until they run out after which we will age rapidly like something out of a bad sci-fi movie.

I don't see this worry being raised much recently but, in the end, we really don't know for sure how c60oo helps.

It's not really a theory, because there is no evidence to support it- it's never been tested. At this point, it's a hypothesis / speculation / guess. I'm not worried about it- it's not consistent with the observations in animals. Also, the rapid onset of c60 effects isn't consistent with a stem cell differentiation mechanism, nor is the fact that c60 effects fade over time if you don't re-dose.

[JBForrester]

Hmm. So what effects are you supposed to have with C60? I took a little bit again today, for the first time in a month or two, and again, the dizziness, disorientation, and tiredness set in again... Odd, considering so many people have positive things to say about it.

I should probably ask this in another topic, but out of curiosity, what happens if your stem cells die? I had external liposuction (without consent) on my hip fat (long story), which supposedly, at least for women, is an area filled to the brim with stem cells. I wonder if this is the reason why I am constantly tired all the time? Or if this is what aged me so rapidly?

[hav]

This is very interesting.. That Adamskzi's sleep returns to normal after the cessation of c60oo is a good sign. If we all started getting tired after prolonged c60 supplementation I would start to really worry about the stem cell pool depletion theory. Keep up the reports.

What's the stem cell pool depletion theory?

Perhaps stem cell pool depletion might explain the apparent paradox that telomere lengthening seems to slow down aging but doesn't seem to increase total lifespan. Perhaps because it doesn't prevent the stem cell pool from being used up.

Of course the same could just as easily apply to c60's life extension effects... although it may not be as evident in animals like rats who normally die of cancer before they would get a chance to use up all their stem cells.

Howard

[ambivalent]

Well, they weren't eyebrows but after a couple of doses over a two-week period (6 months ago) totalling around 10ml (of VW product) I noticed 3 or 4 couple dark hairs grow (quite qucikly I'd say) - one above my ear and the other couple at the front of my hairline on my forehead. I'm blonde. It is possible this may have occasionally happened in the past. But I don't believe this was a consequence of me paying hopeful attention to my receding hairline. The texture appeared different too (one of them in particular at the side), I would say, not my blonde hair just dark.

Edited by ambivalent, 06 January 2014 - 11:35 PM.

[resting]

I had the eyebrows issue but I put it down to age. Maybe it is a sign of accelerating ageing? Or could it related to C60 and an increase of T?

[niner]

Hmm. So what effects are you supposed to have with C60? I took a little bit again today, for the first time in a month or two, and again, the dizziness, disorientation, and tiredness set in again... Odd, considering so many people have positive things to say about it.

I should probably ask this in another topic, but out of curiosity, what happens if your stem cells die? I had external liposuction (without consent) on my hip fat (long story), which supposedly, at least for women, is an area filled to the brim with stem cells. I wonder if this is the reason why I am constantly tired all the time? Or if this is what aged me so rapidly?

The effects of c60 really show up when you are putting a lot of load on your mitochondria, i.e., you are exercising hard, or you are hypoxic for whatever reason. (hypotension, asthma, high altitude, COPD, heart failure...) If you are young and healthy, and you aren't pushing yourself physically, you probably will not feel anything. You might notice that you are less susceptible to sunburn, and if you are a drinker you will probably notice that drinking feels different, and that you don't get as hung over if you overdo it.

This dizziness, disorientation, and tiredness might be an example of the weird autonomic effects that a lot of people notice the first few times they use c60. It's also been reported with NAC, so it's probably antioxidant-related. Whatever the mechanism, these effects seem to go away after the first few doses. How many times have you used it?

Your stem cells haven't died. A little bit of hip liposuction is highly unlikely to deplete your stem cell pool. I think whatever is going on is probably due to something else. Didn't you have a low protein diet for a while there?

I feel like I'm watching the formation of another internet myth. Someone says (for whatever reason) "I wonder if (X) happens?" A while later, someone else refers to it as "The (X) Theory". Pretty soon, there's all kinds of conversation about it, and the Google record grows...

There is no reason to believe that c60 depletes stem cells.

[ambivalent]

Apologies this is OT: quote from a recent article on the bbc website on fasting:

"My blood tests also detected a significant rise in a type of cell, which may play a role in the regeneration of tissues and organs.
It is a controversial area and not fully understood by scientists.
"Your data corresponds to pre-clinical data that we got from animal models that shows that cycles of fasting could elevate this particular substance, considered to be stem cells," said Dr Min Wei, the lead investigator."

(from the third in a series of articles on fasting - below if anyone is interested)

so could stem-cell depletion be an unfortunate bi-product of fasting? Thanks in advance.


http://www.bbc.co.uk...gazine-25498742

http://www.bbc.co.uk...gazine-25498743

http://www.bbc.co.uk...gazine-25549805

Edited by ambivalent, 07 January 2014 - 01:52 PM.

[hav]

... so could stem-cell depletion be an unfortunate bi-product of fasting? Thanks in advance.

http://www.bbc.co.uk...gazine-25498742

http://www.bbc.co.uk...gazine-25498743

http://www.bbc.co.uk...gazine-25549805

Didn't see any stem cell effect mentioned in any of those articles. However the 3rd article mentioned an anecdotal IGFBP1 increase together with an IGF1 decrease. Fwiw, I saw an oxygen deprivation study that mentioned this:

Expression of IGFBP1 and IGF2, also hypoxia-regulated, did not affect CD34⁺ cell migration (data not shown)...
Exposure of CD34⁺ cells to IGFBP3 reduced expression of CD133 (Fig. 1B) and increased endothelial nitric oxide synthase (eNOS) expression (data not shown), thus supporting a role for IGFBP3 in the differentiation of CD34⁺ cells to endothelial cells.

Suggesting maybe that caloric restriction (via IGFBP1) does not increase stem cell differentiation the way oxygen deprivation does (via IGFBP3).

The lack of an increase in IGFBP3 was also observed in this caloric and protein restriction study, but does not support long-term IGF1 reduction in humans from CR alone, but does if fasting restricts both calories and proteins:

Reduced function mutations in the insulin/IGF-I signaling pathway increase maximal lifespan and health span in many species. Calorie restriction (CR) decreases serum IGF-1 concentration by ~40%, protects against cancer and slows aging in rodents. However, the long-term effects of CR with adequate nutrition on circulating IGF-1 levels in humans are unknown. Here we report data from two long-term CR studies (1 and 6 years) showing that severe CR without malnutrition did not change IGF-1 and IGF-1 : IGFBP-3 ratio levels in humans. In contrast, total and free IGF-1 concentrations were significantly lower in moderately protein-restricted individuals. Reducing protein intake from an average of 1.67 g kg(-1) of body weight per day to 0.95 g kg(-1) of body weight per day for 3 weeks in six volunteers practicing CR resulted in a reduction in serum IGF-1 from 194 ng mL(-1) to 152 ng mL(-1). These findings demonstrate that, unlike in rodents, long-term severe CR does not reduce serum IGF-1 concentration and IGF-1 : IGFBP-3 ratio in humans.

Howard

Edited by hav, 07 January 2014 - 07:34 PM.

[ambivalent]

Thanks hav, I will take a look at those links - that is good news if CR and hopefully by inference fasting has no deleterious effect on stem cells resources:

In the third article, as I quoted, it says this:

"Your data corresponds to pre-clinical data that we got from animal models that shows that cycles of fasting could elevate this particular substance, considered to be stem cells," said Dr Min Wei, the lead investigator.

So it appears fasting elevates stem cell levels in the blood. I'm inclined to wonder if this is elevated even further with dry fasting. Is it expensive to obtain these tests? I would like to study the effects myself as it appears there is no academic interest in studying dry-fasting right now.

Edited by ambivalent, 07 January 2014 - 08:25 PM.

[tintinet]

Thanks, I did sleep and felt the need to sleep much more than 10-12hrs. I usually do work long hours but at that time I just couldnt fight sleep, when I was tired I would go drop into bed and sleep 10hrs wake up for an hour two then sleep another 6 sometimes. Hard to describe but it was like I was at peace or something.

Interesting, I think I've had that same experience a couple times since taking C60. I never slept these monster 10-12 hours before. C60 also acutely makes me very relaxed, and if I take it with some food with dinner I could doze off like minutes after. That could simply be low bs or bp though, - I'm not sure.

I also sleep much more since taking C60 EVOO. I really never took naps until I started taking it, but now I take them frequently, and when I don't have to get up for anything scheduled, like today, I'll sleep for over 12 hours and, even then, feel little motivation to get up. It hasn't bothered me during working days, for the most part, somehow, but I certainly now spend much more of my "free" time asleep.

IIRC, you were 'one of those guys' that could get by with very little sleep, 4-6 h/night? If that's understood correctly, can you still function on these few hours since taking C60, or do you seem to "require" more sleep now?

I can (and do) get by without much sleep (4-5 hours/night) during the work week, and I'm not drowsy during an active (working) day, but I seem to be able to sleep more easily and longer now, and more easily give in to sleepiness, when it's possible.