43 replies to this topic

[dunbar]

I wonder if anyone can answer this.
If a person for example has immense stress over a long time and then one day simply snaps
and gets a breakdown then what exactly caused this and how do you treat it?

I mean does the stress deplete the body of nutrients and vitamins which then leads to the breakdown?
If this is the case then would this not mean that the normal psychiatric treatment is ineffective in helping
such a person? For example if such a person is sent to a mental clinic and is then put in SSRI, benzos
or antipsychotics then this doesn't affect the vitamins and nutrients at all.

Or does a mental breakdown simply have something to do with neurotransmitters getting out of balance
and all you have to do is give an antidepressant or antipsychotic and everything is fine again?

I wonder what did people who got a mental breakdown get 100 years before? How did they treat them back then? Did they have a theory or explanation back then what causes this? Or did they simply say that this person has a nerve issue and then put her in a sanatorium to recover?
And do doctors really understand mental breakdowns today or is it still unknown what causes it and how to treat and prevent it?

I'm asking cause I feel more and more restless. Sometimes I really feel like getting a nervous breakdown. Even in the morning I get up and feel like my mind is racing.I am totally stress intolerant. Even slightest things totally upset me and then my mind starts to race.I fear that this is simply the result of having so much stress. I don't know what I could or should do about this.
Should I take very high vitamin doses or other nutrients?

The problem is if I tell this to my psychiatrist then he never really says much about this. It's not like he says "Yeah, I can explain this. The anxiety and stress cause this and that in the body and you need to do this and that about it." He will simply suggest a different antidepressant and that's it. I simply feel like normal psychiatry is very limited. My doc never brought up nutrients or magnesium or stuff like that. He also never measured it. He never asks what I eat. I mean let's say I ate junk food all day and my magnesium is totally low then this would also not help my mental state. But he doesn't even seem to consider such things. This is disappointing but all doctors are like this. No doctor who I have ever been to asked about nutrition. They simply prescribe drugs and that's all.
I feel like the treatment is very generic and doesnt really fit to my special issues. It doesn't really seem to make a huge difference what kind of symptoms I have. I still get antidepressants and that's it no matter if I struggle with being restless or if my stress tolerance is getting very low or not. But shouldnt these things all play a role in finding the right treatment? But I feel like even mentioning all my symptoms to my doc doesnt really matter much cause he doesnt seem to have any answers at all. Then why even bring it all up? This sucks. It makes me feel like even doctors have no real idea what's going on.

I have also been drinking some alcohol before bed for years. Without some alc (1-2 glasses of wine) I can't sleep. This is probably also not very healthy.

Edited by dunbar, 02 January 2014 - 05:49 PM.

[socialpiranha]

Yup, that's the state of modern medicine atm. Look for a specialist at a major university or hospital, that's your best bet if you want someone who actually has a decent understanding of what's actually going on.

[dunbar]

I am already seeing a specialist but he still seems to go by the book. First ssri, then snri, then ndri and so on.

[YoungSchizo]

I am already seeing a specialist but he still seems to go by the book. First ssri, then snri, then ndri and so on.

Great questions, unfortunately asking a psychiatrist is barking up the wrong tree. I remember when I had my first psychotic episode, my doc send me to a senseless dick (a psychiatrist), he only listened to some of the things I said, then say: You have a psychotic breakdown, prescribed me Risperdal and send me back home. Because he only said you have a psychotic breakdown (never heard about a psychosis in my life back then) and didn't give me any insight or knowledge I thought oohh this is just temporary and I will be OK after some time.. If the dick would have told me, dude listen, your brain might very well be screwed and haywired, you might never be the same again and there is a big chance you will be miserable for maybe years or life I would have at least try to understand it and ask why..
Three miserable years later I couldn't stand it anymore and ask my former psychiatrist, why the fuck do I have to come here each month and talk to a wall, why do you only write things down and don't give me feedback on what's wrong with me (like with a psychologist) and/or my brain, seriously what is your fucking job?! In 9 years I never got a clear answer to it.. In 9 years our roles have turned around, I come up with the latest solutions, study's, drugs, vitamins, supplements etc. etc. which they never heard off.

The only clear things from what I understand about psychiatrists is that they function as secondary "cops/lifesavers", they will only take proper action if you are a threat to yourself or environment. The only other thing they will try to do is to make you stable, put you in a program and the rest is up to you to figure out.

Even though she is fictional, I need a psychiatrist like that women from Sopranos, she gave me more insight as a "psychiatrist" than the realistic senseless dicks where I waist my time.

Edited by YoungS, 06 January 2014 - 02:42 AM.

[dunbar]

This sounds very discouraging.
I am not happy with my doc either. There is very little time to talk. Not many questions.
I don't feel like I'm getting a "personalized" treatment. I probably get the same stuff everyone else also gets.
But what shall I do? I have tried other psychiatrists and it wasn't much different. None of them has much time to talk.

I can't figure out what I need or what would work for me. And with supplements doctors also can't help. They will simply say not to take them
when you ask them. If they could at least tell you if you can take supplement X together with an antidepressant, but they also will not know this.

[noos]

For the effects of stress see Sapolsky
http://www.ncbi.nlm....pubmed/9807058/

http://m.youtube.com...h?v=8ysG9ay8TAs

Edited by noos, 13 January 2014 - 08:46 AM.

[dunbar]

Hello, does he give any advice what a person can do besides trying antidepressants?
Or does he only talk about how bad stress is cause that would make me feel worse.

[noos]

https://docs.google....8/2240.full.pdf

[dunbar]

Did you read this? It says glucose protects the brain. So simply have a glucose drink daily when you are under a lot of stress?

[golden1]

Meditation definitely lowers stress and helps deal with it

[Godof Smallthings]

It's true that meditation lowers stress, but when you are already fairly mentally fragile, to start meditating on your own may not be the best idea. An experienced teacher is a very good idea.

What IS safe to do on your own, and what increases your stress tolerance, is cardiovascular exercise. Commit to daily walks of 45 minutes, make it a set time every day that works within your schedule. Try that for a month and you will notice a clear difference.

About meditation, I would advise looking into what is available in your area. Secular mindfulness training a la Jon Kabat-Zinn is excellent for reducing stress.

When you have an hour to spare, search for Kabat-Zinn at Google on Youtube and have a look. I've found it beneficial in many ways, perhaps it could be for you too.

As for answering your initial question: the interplay of nutrition with the body and mind is still a very inexact science, and there is much pseudo-science in this area.

I am also prone to wanting to know HOW and WHY, but need to remind myself often that my goal is to be able to handle stress better and feel more happy and content, not to get a PhD in nutrition.

Using mindfulness to observe your mind and body, you will gradually gain direct experience into how they work - how sensations set off emotions that set off thoughts. With strong mindfulness you can catch increasingly more subtle body and mind processes as they happen in real time. This enables you to avoid getting caught up in negative emotional states or excessive mind rumination, and to live your life more fully and directly, more in line with your actual inner values and goals. A skill that most of us find useful.

This is not a skill or knowledge that can be acquired from accessing information - it is based on direct experience, so requires constant practice. This then leads to insights, or moments of realization. These insights then mature into new perspectives and often new behavioural patterns. It's a different approach to knowing than what we are used to. Personally I find this type of knowing more useful in my daily life than theoretical psychology and/or neuroscience (not that I don't find those useful or interesting, just that they help me less in the here and now than applying awareness to the present moment).

Edited by Godof Smallthings, 15 January 2014 - 06:25 AM.

[Max Headroom Incident]

I've always wondered that too! What even is a "mental breakdown"? A psychotic break? The onset of a mental disorder brought on by stress? Don't think it's listed in the DSM or else I haven't seen it...

In any case, I'd think stress plays a role.

[dunbar]

Hi,
I dont know how mental breakdown is defined. I mean simply something like being totally exhausted and burned out or starting to cry at work or starting to yell and act hysterical or something like that. Is it not known what exactly causes this? For example if it was caused by a lack of certain vitamins which are important for the nerve functioning then you could
try to prevent it by taking enough of those vitamins.
For example if stress causes the body to get rid of vitamins which the body needs then simply popping an antidepressant wouldn't solve this cause you'd still lack the vitamins.

Mindfulness sounds interesting but what bothers me about is that it seems to be totally connected to eastern mysticism like yoga,trascendental meditation and so on and I don't want that.

[Godof Smallthings]

Mindfulness is part of these traditions, but it is not totally connected in the sense that you have to buy the whole package unless you want to. Of course, it is not obligatory to even try if you feel it is completely wrong. Some people do try and feel it is not for them.

An analogy: Porn acting is cardiovascular exercise too, but you can do cardiovascular exercise without becoming a porn star.

Edited by Godof Smallthings, 16 January 2014 - 06:26 AM.

[YoungSchizo]

An analogy: Porn acting is cardiovascular exercise too, but you can do cardiovascular exercise without becoming a porn star.

Liar Liar Pants on Fire!

[nupi]

Mindfulness sounds interesting but what bothers me about is that it seems to be totally connected to eastern mysticism like yoga,trascendental meditation and so on and I don't want that.

You find a "problem" with every proposal, don't you?

[YoungSchizo]

Mindfulness sounds interesting but what bothers me about is that it seems to be totally connected to eastern mysticism like yoga,trascendental meditation and so on and I don't want that.

You find a "problem" with every proposal, don't you?

Haha, I already have given up on him for this reason.

[dunbar]

Mindfulness is part of these traditions, but it is not totally connected in the sense that you have to buy the whole package unless you want to. Of course, it is not obligatory to even try if you feel it is completely wrong. Some people do try and feel it is not for them.

An analogy: Porn acting is cardiovascular exercise too, but you can do cardiovascular exercise without becoming a porn star.

But the chinese guy you recommended is certainly involved with mysticism right?
Do you know any rational people who explain mindfulness who have nothing to do with ying yang and this whole eastern occult crap?

What's so great about mindfulness anyway? Could you explain it in a nutshell?

[nupi]

Do you know any rational people who explain mindfulness who have nothing to do with ying yang and this whole eastern occult crap?

Kabat-Zinn most definitely is not talking about any of that..

What's so great about mindfulness anyway? Could you explain it in a nutshell?

How about you use your own brain to figure that out instead of behaving like a scared three year old across the entire site?

[nupi]

Haha, I already have given up on him for this reason.

I am starting to wonder if he is just trolling. I mean it's just way over the top.

[dunbar]

That's not nice.

[YoungSchizo]

Haha, I already have given up on him for this reason.

I am starting to wonder if he is just trolling. I mean it's just way over the top.

If he likes this song, he probably is

[hathor]

i spent the first half of this month in the psych ward with psychosis...and i'm still trying to pinpoint the exact cause. but for me it seems related to hormonal imbalance combined with sleep deprivation. it also seems related to rx psychotropic meds; i'm scared of lamictal now even though it seemed to work well for depression.

[nupi]

That's not nice.

I agree it's not. But neither is flat out dismissing whatever recommendation people make.

Edited by nupi, 17 January 2014 - 01:19 PM.

[dunbar]

i spent the first half of this month in the psych ward with psychosis...and i'm still trying to pinpoint the exact cause. but for me it seems related to hormonal imbalance combined with sleep deprivation. it also seems related to rx psychotropic meds; i'm scared of lamictal now even though it seemed to work well for depression.

you mean lamictal caused psychosis? did you ask your doc about this?

i dont want to be rude. for me it's not easy to work with advice. i dont know why that is.

[hathor]

i spent the first half of this month in the psych ward with psychosis...and i'm still trying to pinpoint the exact cause. but for me it seems related to hormonal imbalance combined with sleep deprivation. it also seems related to rx psychotropic meds; i'm scared of lamictal now even though it seemed to work well for depression.

you mean lamictal caused psychosis? did you ask your doc about this?

i dont want to be rude. for me it's not easy to work with advice. i dont know why that is.

withdrawal from quitting lamictal cold turkey was likely a large contributing factor

[dunbar]

Yes that is probably not good. Why did you do this? You should discuss such things with your doc.

[hathor]

well my regular doc is out of town and the one filling in won't renew my adderall which I somewhat need to function, and I have no money but I did have a pack of cigs laying there, and I just don't feel like smoking so I decided to eat it.

[dunbar]

You ate cigarettes? Isnt this toxic?

[golden1]

meditation is really just setting aside a time to relax and clear your mind of the constant thoughts you have. it is like forcing your mind to take a break. once you meditate a decent amount and feel the increase of calmness while meditating it starts to become very easy to clear your mind of stress. IMO, it is the obvious solution to too much stress.. nothing mystical about it at all really. sit, close your eyes, relax your muscles, and focus on your senses letting thoughts pass by. if you end up thinking about something just let the thought finish and continue, it gets much easier to ignore thoughts while meditating the more you do it.