185 replies to this topic

[Werper]

Spark,

If I am not a participant? You don't remember this message I sent you to

"Sent 12 December 2013 - 10:22 AM
I don't want to mention it in public yet, but it looks like our bpap group by is turning out to be less legit every day. Something is starting to seem very fishy about this yada character. I will be suprised if we get the real thing. I am sure others are thinking the same."

Empty vial, suddenly a gram of BPAP appearing out of nowhere for testing, Yada starting to lash out at others questioning him. None of this raises any red flags to you spark?

If I were Yada I would happily send the details of my supplier to Uralsky, to put an end to any speculation that is taking place here. Unless of course......



And for the record I could really care less about the 200 bucks. This is a matter of principle.

Edited by Werper, 22 January 2014 - 07:01 PM.

[sparkk51]

Spark,

If I am not a participant? You don't remember this message I sent you to

"Sent 12 December 2013 - 10:22 AM
I don't want to mention it in public yet, but it looks like our bpap group by is turning out to be less legit every day. Something is starting to seem very fishy about this yada character. I will be suprised if we get the real thing. I am sure others are thinking the same."

Empty vial, suddenly a gram of BPAP appearing out of nowhere for testing, Yada starting to lash out at others questioning him. None of this raises any red flags to you spark?

If I were Yada I would happily send the details of my supplier to Uralsky, to put an end to any speculation that is taking place here. Unless of course......



And for the record I could really care less about the 200 bucks. This is a matter of principle.

You're right my apologies

[tritium]

I don't want to mention it in public yet, but it looks like our bpap group by is turning out to be less legit every day. Something is starting to seem very fishy about this yada character. I will be suprised if we get the real thing. I am sure others are thinking the same."

I agree. It seems like he never actually paid for any synthesis, just sent out baking powder in DMSO, and pocketed the money. Then when people started to accuse him, he probably purchased 1 gram of real BPAP somewhere cheap for analysis to try to convince people he's legit.

Edited by tritium, 22 January 2014 - 09:31 PM.

[Reformed-Redan]

I don't want to mention it in public yet, but it looks like our bpap group by is turning out to be less legit every day. Something is starting to seem very fishy about this yada character. I will be suprised if we get the real thing. I am sure others are thinking the same."

I agree. It seems like he never actually paid for any synthesis, just sent out baking powder in DMSO, and pocketed the money. Then when people started to accuse him, he probably purchased 1 gram of real BPAP somewhere cheap for analysis to try to convince people he's legit. In addition to this, he pretends to have financial difficulties due to a made up medical emergency and scams people for additional money.

Yup, and Pitolisant was also baking powder. So was uridine. This is getting ridiculous. In the next episode of the Twilight zone! Is yadayada a machine or human?! Did the Earth exist 5 minutes ago?! Is this all a dream made up by me? Do square-circles exist??!!

Thank God I'm done with doing group buys with paranoid and angsty people.

I regret having sent out these samples for testing purposes to some of these people. Y'all be wack.

[golden1]

yeah, why would anyone be paranoid.... : /
your responses are so comforting after all.

[tritium]

I don't want to mention it in public yet, but it looks like our bpap group by is turning out to be less legit every day. Something is starting to seem very fishy about this yada character. I will be suprised if we get the real thing. I am sure others are thinking the same."

I agree. It seems like he never actually paid for any synthesis, just sent out baking powder in DMSO, and pocketed the money. Then when people started to accuse him, he probably purchased 1 gram of real BPAP somewhere cheap for analysis to try to convince people he's legit. In addition to this, he pretends to have financial difficulties due to a made up medical emergency and scams people for additional money.

Yup, and Pitolisant was also baking powder. So was uridine. This is getting ridiculous. In the next episode of the Twilight zone! Is yadayada a machine or human?! Did the Earth exist 5 minutes ago?! Is this all a dream made up by me? Do square-circles exist??!!

Thank God I'm done with doing group buys with paranoid and angsty people.

I regret having sent out these samples for testing purposes to some of these people. Y'all be wack.

Thank you for the confession. However, you cannot be "done" with the current group buys in which you have organized until all problems are resolved, which includes refunding all members in full for the incorrect product you shipped out.

[Reformed-Redan]

I don't want to mention it in public yet, but it looks like our bpap group by is turning out to be less legit every day. Something is starting to seem very fishy about this yada character. I will be suprised if we get the real thing. I am sure others are thinking the same."

I agree. It seems like he never actually paid for any synthesis, just sent out baking powder in DMSO, and pocketed the money. Then when people started to accuse him, he probably purchased 1 gram of real BPAP somewhere cheap for analysis to try to convince people he's legit. In addition to this, he pretends to have financial difficulties due to a made up medical emergency and scams people for additional money.

Yup, and Pitolisant was also baking powder. So was uridine. This is getting ridiculous. In the next episode of the Twilight zone! Is yadayada a machine or human?! Did the Earth exist 5 minutes ago?! Is this all a dream made up by me? Do square-circles exist??!!

Thank God I'm done with doing group buys with paranoid and angsty people.

I regret having sent out these samples for testing purposes to some of these people. Y'all be wack.

Thank you for the confession. However, you cannot be "done" with the current group buys in which you have organized until all problems are resolved, which includes refunding all members in full for the incorrect product you shipped out.

The moon is also made of cheese. Am I responsible for that also? I'm sorry if you're adopted, it's really not my fault. Should I give you money for that too?

[p3x888]

I am not trying to add fuel to the fire or anything. Just want to offer up some info. The BPAP I received was a brown sticky liquid in a packet. I can attach a pic if would help. I didn't get a vial or anything. I am not saying this to support either side, just a statement of fact.

I don't feel scammed as he included a home address and his real name on the envelope that I received.I do feel he has been less than forthcoming on some things though. Unless the idea is to make money (legitly), why not release the name of the supplier so we can all verify and know?

[Reformed-Redan]

I am not trying to add fuel to the fire or anything. Just want to offer up some info. The BPAP I received was a brown sticky liquid in a packet. I can attach a pic if would help. I didn't get a vial or anything. I am not saying this to support either side, just a statement of fact.

I don't feel scammed as he included a home address and his real name on the envelope that I received.I do feel he has been less than forthcoming on some things though. Unless the idea is to make money (legitly), why not release the name of the supplier so we can all verify and know?

I sent you the 1g sample I got from the supplier because nobody wanted it. I had no use for it and you wanted it. I'll call in the supplier so he can post details soon enough for you guys.

As to why I haven't disclosed the supplier is because I am bounded by a NDA with him. My journey with nootropics lead me to establish a semi-buisness relationship with him. I already sent him an e-mail regarding answering questions people may have. Though I believe I have addressed most issues in the original BPAP thread until it became a flame war against me and my intentions.

There, everything is on the table. Initially I wanted to just purchase/synthesize nootropics and couldne't do it on my own (not enough funds), then I figured group buys were in place. I saw a small opportunnity to make a little dosh on the side, so yes, I have profited from some group buys. Immensly, no. Have I delivered on most of my promises, yes. And I millionaire who has nothing to do; but, post on these forums? No. I'm pretty much a college student looking to get an edge over my peers and learn stuff more quickly. I'm not looking for sympathy here. Did I do anything illegal? Nope. I made sure not to get involved with RC's and shit like that. Am I here to scam you, no. I also have interest in the compounds moreso than the money. Like I said. I'm glad to be over group buys as most people here seem to try to self-medicate themselves for XYZ reason or just subscribed to the idea that some magical compound will make them profoundly more gifted or intelligent (as myself was). Well, that's all folks.

Edited by yadayada, 22 January 2014 - 10:05 PM.

[Hebbeh]

The vial of BPAP I received provides a very strong stimulant effect which can be followed with a crash. I used to have a legit 30mg prescription for adderall so i am familiar with strong stimulants....and whatever was in the vial was a fairly strong stimulant....FWIW

[p3x888]

I don't feel you have committed fraud, at least to me so far. I am former law enforcement and it doesn't feel that way to me. But I feel like more info would be helpful for the future.

I do have a question though. I got mine back in December and you said that the 1g was still available right? Just want to make sure I understood you.

[Reformed-Redan]

I don't feel you have committed fraud, at least to me so far. I am former law enforcement and it doesn't feel that way to me. But I feel like more info would be helpful for the future.

I do have a question though. I got mine back in December and you said that the 1g was still available right? Just want to make sure I understood you.

I updated the above post for you. The 1g that I offered back in December was the sample the supplier sent me. I didn't use it because I could not measure out the thing and as I've said a million times nobody wanted to do a 3'rd party analysis test themselves. I don't have 1g of BPAP. This is what the supplier has offered to you guys if you want to check the purity and quality of the said compound. Uralsky has already offered to test the compound; so, that's about it at this point. I already requested that the supplier send out extra vials to the participants who were dissatisfied with the amount they recieved. Apart from that I have nothing else to offer at this point except that 1g for testing. That is all.

[p3x888]

Thank you.I understand now.

[lourdaud]

The vial of BPAP I received provides a very strong stimulant effect which can be followed with a crash. I used to have a legit 30mg prescription for adderall so i am familiar with strong stimulants....and whatever was in the vial was a fairly strong stimulant....FWIW

For how long would you say the effect lasts?
I noticed how sleepy I got today, about 4 h after taking BPAP. I take a bunch of other stuff as well though so could be something else causing this..

[Hebbeh]

A couple drops sublingual provides a good 8hrs of motivation however i will temper that with i am fairly sensitive to dopamine promoting stimulants.

[uralsky]

It is unfortunate that the whole discussion went this way.
My take on it is that something went wrong with the synthesis after the first 1 g was made by the supplier. yada wanted to protect them but did that in not the best way. That would explain why there was 1 g sample first but less made with the second batch shipped for participants.
I believe if yada explained all in the beginning there would be less confusion and distrust.
For now the confusion is growing overboard.
yada, please clarify if you indeed do not have in your possession that 1g samples of pure compound. Is it now going to be send directly from the supplier? Which sample you were talking about before?
To move forward with testing I would like to know:
1. Was the 1g sample you received originally for the supplier (and later send to p3x888) in dry powder form or as liquid?
2. was it originally brown in color or was it white and became brown later?
3. was it dry powder and became liquid later?
I suspect that BPAP according to its structure could be an oily substance rather than powder. But again the supplier confirmed that it could be crystallized. Also, xks201 received from another supplier BPAP in powder form.
So what was it?
4. what form the supplier is going to send BPAP for testing?
5. Is it going be the same batch as the staff all participants received?
6. If it is different batch how do we confirm identity and purity of the batch being consumed by participants?
7. If the purity of BPAP was claimed to be 99% why was it brown in color?
I guess not all questions are directed to yada. Just an invitation for discussion
We dont want to spend time and resources for testing unless we can expect some useful results.
If the product is not pure what we are going to ID?

[xks201]

Well Yada appears to be legit if he is sending the 1g sample for testing. Guys my BPAP from a separate supplier elicits the same 4 hour stimulation you guys speak of followed by a drop off. From nearly every account I have heard from you all, your BPAP is acting just like mine which was mixed with water upon its arrival to my house from the supplier. Yada is making good by giving supplier details to someone and verifying info and purity.

I'm happy ending these rebuttals. It sounds like you all got the real stuff. BPAP doesn't appear to be even as nootropic as PRL. PRL was said by its inventor to function as a nootropic. I find it does. BPAP according to Joseph Knoll in an interview or his book (I forget which one) is NOT a nootropic. It is a brain enhancer and probably enhances functioning but probably not to an extreme cognitive level.

I think part of the problem here is that we have unreal expectations for this compound. It is more of a compound you would use daily to prevent senility in my opinion than one you would use to conquer the academic world with. I am looking forward to hearing the reports of those who have diligently used PRL for months to see if serious nootropic effects take place.

For now let us let the testing resume and I am here to tell you all that I don't think BPAP is a crazy nootropic. I think it potentially is very helpful to mental diseases/aging diseases

[telight]

I saw a small opportunity to make a little dosh on the side, so yes, I have profited from some group buys.

Wow I can't believe no one has pointed this out. This is a huge conflict of interest and is entirely untrustful. No wonder everyone got crappy product, you were too worried about making your cut. Unbelievable.

[golden1]

I saw a small opportunity to make a little dosh on the side, so yes, I have profited from some group buys.

Wow I can't believe no one has pointed this out. This is a huge conflict of interest and is entirely untrustful. No wonder everyone got crappy product, you were too worried about making your cut. Unbelievable.

http://www.longecity...300#entry634339
"Yes, because we don't have confidence that someone might decide to dilute it into DMSO and sell it for themselves."


bit of a double standard when you put those two quotes together.. no? heh

[xks201]

Lol

[Reformed-Redan]

I think this picture is a nice representation of this thread and the BPAP group buy:


Uralsky, I'll get back to you regarding your questions soon enough.

[Werper]

And I wonder who's responsible for painting that picture Yada?

[Werper]

Don't forget to let you brush soak in DMSO.

[almostalwaystired]

Just out of curiosity, was there ever some official agreed upon rule stating that group organizers could not make a small amount of money on the side? I have been operating under the assumption that of course the organizers of the group buy would take a small amount of money for their trouble.

I ask only because I think that IF yada agreed to not profit at all, then clearly he has violated trust. But if he never explicitly made that claim (not about diluting something, but specifically about refusing to take any money for his trouble), then you ought to blame yourselves for not carefully expressing your expectations and receiving explicit agreement regarding your assumptions.

He's not creating these items in his bath tub. He is relying on another company entirely. He cannot be held responsible for the purity or lack thereof of some substance you agreed to have created by an unknown supplier on the internet through a third party!

Edited by almostalwaystired, 23 January 2014 - 08:55 PM.

[Reformed-Redan]

Just out of curiosity, was there ever some official agreed upon rule stating that group organizers could not make a small amount of money on the side? I have been operating under the assumption that of course the organizers of the group buy would take a small amount of money for their trouble.

I ask only because I think that IF yada agreed to not profit at all, then clearly he has violated trust. But if he never explicitly made that claim (not about diluting something, but specifically about refusing to take any money for his trouble), then you ought to blame yourselves for not carefully expressing your expectations and receiving explicit agreement regarding your assumptions.

He's not creating these items in his bath tub. He is relying on another company entirely. He cannot be held responsible for the purity or lack thereof of some substance you agreed to have created by an unknown supplier on the internet through a third party!

This. I was starting to think we all lived in a communist utopia around here at Longecity. Must be smoking too much of my own shit.

[tritium]

The moon is also made of cheese. Am I responsible for that also? I'm sorry if you're adopted, it's really not my fault. Should I give you money for that too?

What an idiotic comment. I'm sorry your mom dropped you when you were a child.

Edited by tritium, 24 January 2014 - 08:05 AM.

[ScienceGuy]

Just out of curiosity, was there ever some official agreed upon rule stating that group organizers could not make a small amount of money on the side?

IMO there is absolutely no issue whatsoever regards the ORGANIZER profiting by an appropriate amount as long it is agreed in advance with the Group Buy PARTICIPANTS

...He's not creating these items in his bath tub. He is relying on another company entirely. He cannot be held responsible for the purity or lack thereof of some substance you agreed to have created by an unknown supplier on the internet through a third party!

I disagree. The Group Buy ORGANIZER is most certainly responsible for supervising the product's QUALITY CONTROL and ensuring that the product provided to all Group Buy PARTICIPANTS meets both the specified PURITY and QUANTITY ordered.

[Reformed-Redan]

Just out of curiosity, was there ever some official agreed upon rule stating that group organizers could not make a small amount of money on the side?

IMO there is absolutely no issue whatsoever regards the ORGANIZER profiting by an appropriate amount as long it is agreed in advance with the Group Buy PARTICIPANTS

...He's not creating these items in his bath tub. He is relying on another company entirely. He cannot be held responsible for the purity or lack thereof of some substance you agreed to have created by an unknown supplier on the internet through a third party!

I disagree. The Group Buy ORGANIZER is most certainly responsible for supervising the product's QUALITY CONTROL and ensuring that the product provided to all Group Buy PARTICIPANTS meets both the specified PURITY and QUANTITY ordered.

So, you still want to test that 1g you promised you would? Or is this more pandering?

[tritium]

So, you still want to test that 1g you promised you would? Or is this more pandering?

He already clearly told you. You're like a baby whining to get what he wants.

[almostalwaystired]

...He's not creating these items in his bath tub. He is relying on another company entirely. He cannot be held responsible for the purity or lack thereof of some substance you agreed to have created by an unknown supplier on the internet through a third party!

I disagree. The Group Buy ORGANIZER is most certainly responsible for supervising the product's QUALITY CONTROL and ensuring that the product provided to all Group Buy PARTICIPANTS meets both the specified PURITY and QUANTITY ordered.

That's assuming that the organizer has some sort of control over the random lab in <insert country here> that is synthesizing the product. Unless everyone agrees, up front, that they'd use a lab that promises (legally) results to a certain specification, *and* that the organizer is in a position to force that issue and hold them accountable *legally*, I don't see how this is even possible.. It certainly won't lead to fast and speedy results ;-) Maybe you mean that the only folks who should organize group buys are those who have at least as much money as the full cost of synthesis in their bank account, just in case the first supplier screws everything up, so that a second lab entirely can be hired? That's fine, I suppose, but I think that needs to be made clear to the Organizer, prior to his or her attempt, and I highly suspect that no one will be willing to do Group Buys anymore, or that they will charge at least somewhat more than double the amount for the first attempt at synthesis... how could they do otherwise, in the absence of sheer altruism?

If, on the other hand, you just mean that they should do their very best to ensure that the purity and quantity matches the expectations of the buyers, I agree 100%, and believe that that goes without saying. If yadayada hasn't done this, then he's absolutely wrong. I haven't been watching that closely, but it appears to me (albeit, at a glance) that he has.

I should also say that I have been burned before in a similar situation, and I understand how upsetting it can be. I feel bad for everyone who has been affected by this; still, I think we should be very, very careful when assigning blame, and ensure that we are holding people to a realistic standard. For what it's worth, I really appreciate what you're doing in that other thread to try and settle this kind of stuff prior to the buy commencing. That is a huge and important service!

Edited by almostalwaystired, 24 January 2014 - 04:49 PM.