185 replies to this topic

[chemicalambrosia]

I already committed to helping pay for the test. I hope everyone is willing to chip in... third party testing should be an important part of every group buy.

[Werper]

I will help.

[sparkk51]

I can pay $20.

[datrat]

I was part of this buy, but I'm going to apologize for being selfish and say that I'm just not interested in investing anymore money into BPAP.

Since this is also an experience feedback discussion, I'll try to explain where I'm coming from. I used BPAP for about 10 days, and while I believe there is definitely something there, for me the results were very subtle, very minimal. I have an assumption as to why this was the case for me. Like a lot of people, I'm really affected with side-effects such as amotivation, anhedonia, general apathy from the snri/ssri's I've taken/take. This was why I was interested in BPAP, to see if it might alleviate some of these side-effects. My general understanding of the side-effects is that, at least for me, I'm getting too much serotonin floating around in my brain and it is suppressing some normal DA/NE firing in parts of my brain. Since BPAP only works when neurons normally fire and causes an extra release of neurotransmitters at that point, it makes a lot of sense to me that, since normal firing is being suppressed, I'm only feeling very minimal effects from it. To add to my belief that there's definitely something to the BPAP we received, I had two quite unexpected negative experiences with it. On two separate occasions I took a single dose of BPAP in the morning, forgot that I took it and later in the day, but definitely while the BPAP was still in my system, had two beers. Both times I felt very dysphoric after that which simply never happens. Normally a couple of drinks improves my mood. It wasn't until the second time it happened that I realized that the only new thing was BPAP. This pretty much contradicts my earlier assumption. I'd think that if alcohol causes some DA neurons to fire that are normally suppressed I'd have felt even happier than normal, but this definitely wasn't the case and I have no clue why it made me feel that way.

Again I apologize for not chipping in in the name of science, it's a selfish decision, but the BPAP was fairly expensive and I just don't want to spend anymore money on something I'm not going to use again.

[sparkk51]

I was part of this buy, but I'm going to apologize for being selfish and say that I'm just not interested in investing anymore money into BPAP.

Since this is also an experience feedback discussion, I'll try to explain where I'm coming from. I used BPAP for about 10 days, and while I believe there is definitely something there, for me the results were very subtle, very minimal. I have an assumption as to why this was the case for me. Like a lot of people, I'm really affected with side-effects such as amotivation, anhedonia, general apathy from the snri/ssri's I've taken/take. This was why I was interested in BPAP, to see if it might alleviate some of these side-effects. My general understanding of the side-effects is that, at least for me, I'm getting too much serotonin floating around in my brain and it is suppressing some normal DA/NE firing in parts of my brain. Since BPAP only works when neurons normally fire and causes an extra release of neurotransmitters at that point, it makes a lot of sense to me that, since normal firing is being suppressed, I'm only feeling very minimal effects from it. To add to my belief that there's definitely something to the BPAP we received, I had two quite unexpected negative experiences with it. On two separate occasions I took a single dose of BPAP in the morning, forgot that I took it and later in the day, but definitely while the BPAP was still in my system, had two beers. Both times I felt very dysphoric after that which simply never happens. Normally a couple of drinks improves my mood. It wasn't until the second time it happened that I realized that the only new thing was BPAP. This pretty much contradicts my earlier assumption. I'd think that if alcohol causes some DA neurons to fire that are normally suppressed I'd have felt even happier than normal, but this definitely wasn't the case and I have no clue why it made me feel that way.

Again I apologize for not chipping in in the name of science, it's a selfish decision, but the BPAP was fairly expensive and I just don't want to spend anymore money on something I'm not going to use again.

Is there any evidence suggesting long-term ssri use leads to permanent increases in serotonin?

[xks201]

There is evidence. I'd have to find it.

[tritium]

So long term SSRI = increased serotonin = lowered dopamine = ADHD ?

[datrat]

I didn't mean to suggest that long term use of SSRI's permanently increases serotonin, only while you're taking the medication. If xks is right and there is evidence to show that, I'm unaware of it. Also my assumption about too much serotonin floating around in your brain suppressing DA/NE firing is too simplistic to use as a general explanation for anything. I think the real key about this, if there is any truth to this assumption at all, is where the firing is suppressed. In other words it's all about location, location, location as they say in the fast-food business.

[chemicalambrosia]

Ok guys,
I have received the BPAP sample from the manufacturer for testing.
It was packed in a small plastic pouch, in an envelope. I transferred it into a glass vial (almost all of it). Weighed at 31.5 mg
It is white powder which is good. I will do some testing myself and report to you next week.
However to ID the compound I would have to ship it to the analytical company for a fee.
The plan is to determine exact molecular mass by MS. That should be sufficient to get reasonable confidence that what we have is BPAP. Basically it should confirm whether it has the right number and type of elements, or the chemical formula.
The next question would be to collect the necessary funds. $250 for testing plus $20 shipping cost.

Bump. We have several people who committed to funds for testing. Anyone else?
This is at least a partial list of the participants that haven't responded, can we at least get a response negative or positive so we know where we ultimately stand?
aarfai
meatsauce
p3x888
Hebbeh
lourdaud
phil8462643
mizten

[aarfai]

I'll chip in $20

[uralsky]

Bump. We have several people who committed to funds for testing. Anyone else?
This is at least a partial list of the participants that haven't responded, can we at least get a response negative or positive so we know where we ultimately stand?
aarfai
meatsauce
p3x888
Hebbeh
lourdaud
phil8462643
mizten

Tanks to everyone who committed.
I am going to go ahead and order the test next week. I will pay out of my pocket first. I will PM to everyone on the list with the details of the payments if any.

Edited by uralsky, 09 February 2014 - 05:14 PM.

[phil8462643]

I would like to pay but I don't even have my bpap so I think I will pass

[sparkk51]

I would like to pay but I don't even have my bpap so I think I will pass

Wtf, you just didn't receive it?

[aarfai]

Any updates on the testing?

[uralsky]

Waiting for results.
Any time now

[uralsky]

Ok finally got the results of BPAP testing. The powder one that was sent to me directly by manufacturer. Below is the MS spectrum (hope the image attached correctly)  bpap MS.png   24.26KB   23 downloads This confirms that the main peak at 246.1852 Da is consistent with the [M+H]+ for molecular species C16H23NO, which is indeed (-)-1-(Benzofuran-2-yl)-2-propylaminopentane, or (-)-BPAP. The second peak at 527.3397 is consistent with [2M+H+HCl] adduct perhaps due to the fact that the material was made as HCl salt. Otherwise the spectrum is quite clean. I am confident now that the powder sent to me is in fact BPAP. I got some 30 mg. So the rest 970 mg or so from that "1g sample for testing" could be used now and split between users. hurray... I can not guarantee same for the DMSO dissolved staff though. The powder is white and slightly bitter in taste. The DMSO staff is brown if dried and tastes nasty. P.S. I arranged the test to be done without actual exchange of money. So please accept this as my small contribution to the community. (of cause, nothing in this word is free )

Edited by uralsky, 27 February 2014 - 12:58 AM.

[sparkk51]

..I can not guarantee same for the DMSO dissolved staff though. The powder is white and slightly bitter in taste. The DMSO staff is brown if dried and tastes nasty. P.S. I arranged the test to be done without actual exchange of money. So please accept this as my small contribution to the community. (of cause, nothing in this word is free )

OMG. thank you so much for doing this uralsky. Were you able to determine purity? Regardless, thank you, for introducing the concern about the initial BPAP that was sent (in DMSO solutions). I was beginning to worry that even though you are testing the chemical it may not be from the same batch that was sent to us initially. I was just too afraid to bring up yet another concern.

So, how are we going to go about distributing this BPAP?

Edited by sparkk51, 27 February 2014 - 01:29 AM.

[xks201]

Has anyone taken large doses of BPAP yet?

[ScienceGuy]

Ok finally got the results of BPAP testing. The powder one that was sent to me directly by manufacturer. Below is the MS spectrum (hope the image attached correctly)  bpap MS.png   24.26KB   23 downloadsThis confirms that the main peak at 246.1852 Da is consistent with the [M+H]+ for molecular species C16H23NO, which is indeed (-)-1-(Benzofuran-2-yl)-2-propylaminopentane, or (-)-BPAP. The second peak at 527.3397 is consistent with [2M+H+HCl] adduct perhaps due to the fact that the material was made as HCl salt. Otherwise the spectrum is quite clean. I am confident now that the powder sent to me is in fact BPAP. I got some 30 mg. So the rest 970 mg or so from that "1g sample for testing" could be used now and split between users. hurray...I can not guarantee same for the DMSO dissolved staff though. The powder is white and slightly bitter in taste. The DMSO stuff is brown if dried and tastes nasty. P.S. I arranged the test to be done without actual exchange of money. So please accept this as my small contribution to the community. (of cause, nothing in this word is free )

URALSKY,

Firstly, THANK YOU and a hearty WELL DONE for organizing this.

Given it is abundantly clear that the 'BPAP' product actually supplied to everyone previously differs entirely from the BPAP powder sample that you have just tested I would strongly recommend that everyone dispose of it immediately and do not under any circumstances ingest it. (Please kindly note that this is simply my opinion. Everyone can make their own decision regards what they do with respect to this)

The best way forward as I see it would be for the remainder of the same white powder material that you have just tested to be provided to all the Group Buy PARTICIPANTS.

Given it has just been demonstrated that it is quite simple and most certainly possible to manufacture BPAP in white powder form to a significant quality standard (which we essentially already knew), why this was not done in the first place baffles me! That said, at least we got there in the end. Well done sir!

Edited by ScienceGuy, 27 February 2014 - 08:25 AM.

[xks201]

Good work.

Edited by xks201, 27 February 2014 - 03:14 PM.

[xks201]

Could you possibly put me down for like 30 grams or whatever is left if everyone else is taken care of and there is some left? Thanks.

Edited by xks201, 27 February 2014 - 03:14 PM.

[Reformed-Redan]

Firstly, since uralsky has reassured everyone that what has been provided by the supplier was in fact BPAP. I'm not sure about the initial quality of the BPAP in DMSO. If I recall correctly it was to 95%, so so impurities were to be expected though nothing toxic or harmful! The supplier then refined the chemical synthesis process and has in fact obtained BPAP in 99.5%+ purity if I recall correctly. I'm glad you guys and gals have been reassured as it was never my intention to cheat or harm anyone (given the crazy claims that have flown in my face as of recent). As I've mentioned I no longer handle group buys; but, I think it is possible for me to request a 1g pure HCL sample of BPAP to be sent to uralsky for dilution and redistribution if he is willing to undertake this. I appreciate your efforts uralsky in taking upon the task that was originally assigned to ScienceGuy of testing the compound. Anyway, kudos.

As I said before. This was always a one man job, with the tremendous efforts of the supplier who was invested his own money into the production of BPAP.

And to affirm that the product is indeed BPAP here is a very thorough and comprehensive test done by the supplier some time back all at personal cost.

pdf document: AL-20140115-4 LCMS - BPAP.pdf

Edited by yadayada, 27 February 2014 - 05:32 PM.

[Citrus Bolt]

Ok finally got the results of BPAP testing. The powder one that was sent to me directly by manufacturer. Below is the MS spectrum (hope the image attached correctly)  bpap MS.png   24.26KB   23 downloadsThis confirms that the main peak at 246.1852 Da is consistent with the [M+H]+ for molecular species C16H23NO, which is indeed (-)-1-(Benzofuran-2-yl)-2-propylaminopentane, or (-)-BPAP. The second peak at 527.3397 is consistent with [2M+H+HCl] adduct perhaps due to the fact that the material was made as HCl salt. Otherwise the spectrum is quite clean. I am confident now that the powder sent to me is in fact BPAP. I got some 30 mg. So the rest 970 mg or so from that "1g sample for testing" could be used now and split between users. hurray...I can not guarantee same for the DMSO dissolved staff though. The powder is white and slightly bitter in taste. The DMSO staff is brown if dried and tastes nasty. P.S. I arranged the test to be done without actual exchange of money. So please accept this as my small contribution to the community. (of cause, nothing in this word is free )

Excellent work ural! We very much appreciate this reassurance. In your opinion, do you believe the differing characteristics of the samples are due to residue from the solvent, or rather that they are different substances?

[uralsky]

I also checked UV absorbance spectrum of both samples. They both have peaks typical of benzofuran (highest at 246 nm) and at similar extinction. So likely similar compounds. DMSO dissolved sample had additional high absorbance below 220 nm, indicating possible impurities. Can not tell where this impurities came from. Personally I doubt they are from DMSO, unless they used really dirty one.
I agree that is better to stick with the powder.
Unfortunately I cannot make the weighing and shipping myself. I am a family man and my wife already suspects I am doing something suspicious. Don't want to be caught with bunch of white powder packets. :D
Buy the way, I recently received another shipment of three bottles of DMSO staff. Whoever sent it to me: Thanks, but I would rather not use it for now.

[chemicalambrosia]

Thank you for the testing uralsky. It is unfortunate that the product sent to us was not purer, but it seems incredibly likely that it is indeed BPAP.

For all the people who have been taking BPAP, do any still take it and get good results? Dealing with the purer powder isn't going to be worthwhile if BPAP isn't effective anyways.

[VERITAS INCORRUPTUS]

Have there been any worthwhile bioassay reports indicating dosing in effects in some distinct and detailed ?

[meatsauce]

I liked it when I took 15 or so drops. I could concentrate very well on details of music.

[VERITAS INCORRUPTUS]

I liked it when I took 15 or so drops. I could concentrate very well on details of music.

15 drops is not a standardized dose
Kindly, if possible, indicate dosing protocol in mg, acute effects, chronic effects (if any assessed), etc...

Edited by VERITAS INCORRUPTUS, 01 March 2014 - 10:59 PM.

[meatsauce]

Is anyone up for distributing the remainder of the pure bpap? We should all pitch in a bit to cover time and of course shipping costs.

[xsiv1]

No updates or experiences to report from those who actually received the correct product? I'm just a curious outside. Apologies.