185 replies to this topic

[Reformed-Redan]

The reason why nobody got 1g was because the yields were poor and making BPAP was much harder than anticipated.

…And yet YADAYADA has confirmed himself that THE SUPPLIER is readily able to provide a 1 GRAM QUANTITY of BPAP!

Personally, my B.S. DETECTOR is going off!

Furthermore, it is abundantly clear that neither YADAYADA nor his SUPPLIER knows what they are doing… wherein THIS post should have been wholly unnecessary, as the SUPPLIER should already know the information and in fact should have done this:

Guys I'm attaching a HNMR of DMSO BPAP. As you may guess the supplier is still trying to stabalize the BPAP into HCL or Citrate form.

Free chemistry lesson for your Chinese chemists:

Furan derivatives are highly susceptible to acidic hydrolysis, when some moisture gets to BPAP HCl you will get acidic environment on crystal/powder surface and this starts degradation by ring opening and this starts condensations which are apparent on 1H NMR. Aromatic protons between 6,5 and 8 ppm should give solid 2:2:1 integration, but instead it shows that there is some impurity hidden inside middle multiplet. But its normal that you don't get perfect integration for NH₂⁺ which you see as doublet above 9 ppm.

There is no way they will get stable BPAP HCl. Even citric acid can be too strong.

Solution:
Tell them to try preparing carbonate salt, or better benzoate - first by azeotropic removal of water in toluene or 1,2-dichloroetane solution of BPAP base, when water stops collecting there should be added (still hot solution) 1,05 equivalent of benzoic acid in dry solvent, stirring for some time and slow cooling which should start crystallization.

Hope that helps.

Furthermore, I also stand corrected regards LIABILITY, in that having re-read through this thread it has become clear that it was not in fact the SUPPLIER who is to blame, but it is indeed YADAYADA, who made the decision to UNNECESSARILY go with adding the NEUROTOXIC DMSO to yield a LIQUID as opposed to POWDER product:

The supplier indicated that crystilization of BPAP… can be done and most likely will be done; but, I opted for liquid
form.

Therefore, seemingly I was incorrect in previously defending YADAYADA, as he clearly is very much to blame after all.

Thanks ScienceGuy for the great attacks. I'm glad you feel better about attacking me. The BPAP was made in liquid form because that was the easiest way to ship it as far as I know for the supplier. I'm not a chemist major; but, I think you'd know better as to why BPAP was in DMSO than me. Personally, I don't like the taste of DMSO that much; but, I'm not one to complain. As for the 1g quantity of BPAP. I'm not going to get into a pissing contest with you. What I stated was correct. At the time the supplier could only send out so much BPAP at the given purity. I need not mention over again that 1g of BPAP is esentially useless after a month or so (Don't quote me on that, Sir) without the proper preservation techniques. Anyway, you have shown how GREAT you are. Initially, your role in the group buy was to handle the EU/UK shipping and lab analysis of the product; however, you had to act like a pompous jerk when you recieved an empty vial (reasons unknown) and totally threw out the window any possibility for testing the compound for everyone. I offered a sample to anyone, again, nobody took up on that opportunity. You want to blame me and the supplier for the quantity provided? Fine, I'm not God and neither is he. We did our best and made amends by sending extra BPAP to participants. I congratulate you on your crusade against me and the supplier. Bravo!

Edited by yadayada, 22 January 2014 - 06:39 AM.

[Reformed-Redan]

And ScienceGuy, don't bother me with your panderings, I just won't respond. I will let uralsky deal with lab analysis if he wants to.

For your knowledge this whole discussion ended when you stated that Chinese suppliers are not to be trusted in that other thread. Bigot.

Edited by yadayada, 22 January 2014 - 06:49 AM.

[golden1]

lol.....

[Lurkerbob]

So 5 mg is enough for testing. That still leaves 995 mg. let's make it 100 mg for testing just in case the chemist has a spill! Still leaves 900 mg which is 40 mg per participant. If the supplier still thinks liquid is better for shipping? Then ethyl alcohol does sound a bit more appetizing.

By the way I don't think the online retailers are making batches every month so there must be some way to preserve it

But one elected participant still needs the suppliers details.

YADAYADA . We are offering you a clean way out of this mess.
You have said you are busy so stop taking on tasks that you cannot handle

Give the details to one member. Preferably a member with some chemistry knowledge.

NOW..... Who do we choose to pick up future correspondence with with the supplier?



There is still a gram in existence not adulterated with DMSO

[Reformed-Redan]

So 5 mg is enough for testing. That still leaves 995 mg. let's make it 100 mg for testing just in case the chemist has a spill! Still leaves 900 mg which is 40 mg per participant. If the supplier still thinks liquid is better for shipping? Then ethyl alcohol does sound a bit more appetizing.

By the way I don't think the online retailers are making batches every month so there must be some way to preserve it

But one elected participant still needs the suppliers details.

YADAYADA . We are offering you a clean way out of this mess.
You have said you are busy so stop taking on tasks that you cannot handle

Give the details to one member. Preferably a member with some chemistry knowledge.

NOW..... Who do we choose to pick up future correspondence with with the supplier?



There is still a gram in existence not adulterated with DMSO

Troll much?

[Lurkerbob]

BUMP

Seriously I work free for many clients and have a particular interest in the subject of bpap

I also hate to see unsolved problems.

I noticed some people here are studying physics.
I hate to see people get ripped off

I hate seeing fellow scientists getting ripped off even more, especially fellow scientists with interests in bpap

So who do we choose for future correspondence?

Edited by Lurkerbob, 22 January 2014 - 07:39 AM.

[Reformed-Redan]

BUMP

Seriously I work free for many clients and have a particular interest in the subject of bpap

I also hate to see unsolved problems.

I noticed some people here are studying physics.
I hate to see people get ripped off

I hate seeing fellow scientists getting ripped off even more, especially fellow scientists with interests in bpap

So who do we choose for future correspondence?

What are you talking about? If you think you want to cow me or whatnot go take a cold shower troll.

[ScienceGuy]

I have no idea what's going on here... no I don't have 1g of BPAP stored away under my bed... This is 1g being offered by the supplier, gratis. Not MY 1g. I have no use for 1g of BPAP.

You do remember posting THIS, right?:

I have 1 gram of BPAP...

[Lurkerbob]

Can we not speak rationally to each other? This forum is for science hobbyists and scientists, not name calling. I asked perfectly legitimate questions. Stop with the name calling yada.

Nobody is going to forget what is going on because you call names

By the way I am talking about us electing a representative to try and work these bpap problems out. The representative will have time to address participants' concerns

Edited by Lurkerbob, 22 January 2014 - 08:38 AM.

[ScienceGuy]

Can we not speak rationally to each other? This forum is for science hobbyists and scientists, not name calling. I asked perfectly legitimate questions. Stop with the name calling yada.

Nobody is going to forget what is going on because you call names

Well said sir!

[ScienceGuy]

And ScienceGuy, don't bother me with your panderings... this whole discussion ended when you stated that Chinese suppliers are not to be trusted in that other thread. Bigot.

Ignoring YOUR further AD HOMINEM, so as to debunk your RIDICULOUS STRAWMAN let’s see what I ACTUALLY said shall we?:

I strongly advise extreme caution with regards to dealing with CHINESE chemical synthesis companies... whilst there is the odd exception, the vast majority quite simply cannot be trusted... if the product is indeed what it should be, then it is exceedingly likely that it will NOT meet the PURITY specified … Even if the product is (mostly) what it claims to be, then typically it will contain significant levels of IMPURITIES which could include TOXIC REAGENTS

I should add that reputable CHINESE COMPANIES do exist, but due to the considerable number of untrustworthy ones it is a sad fact that they are akin to a diamond in a sea of zircons... My advice is to only deal with said [Chinese] companies that have already an established proven track record on being bona fide and on the level.

So, I NEVER actually said that ALL Chinese Suppliers are not to be trusted, did I? In fact, I have deliberately pointed out that "reputable CHINESE COMPANIES do exist"... I simply advise to deal only with Chinese companies "that have already an established proven track record on being bona fide and on the level". So let's please ditch the STRAWMAN once and for all, OK?

With the utmost respect I have over 20 years' professional experience with respect to managing the sourcing and purchasing of raw material ingredients, including chemicals, from all over the world... as such I believe I am qualified to state such an opinion... and BTW it is just that, my OPINION, you do not have to agree with it... and everyone else is intelligent enough to form their own opinion regarding this matter.

Furthermore, for what it is worth, please note my advance warning that: "if the product is indeed what it should be, then it is exceedingly likely that it will NOT meet the PURITY specified … Even if the product is (mostly) what it claims to be, then typically it will contain significant levels of IMPURITIES which could include TOXIC REAGENTS"

Wherein, it should be noted that as I warned might happen, the resultant product:

1) Does NOT meet the PURITY specified;
2) It contains significant levels of IMPURITIES (as established / confirmed by URALSKY); and
3) It contains DMSO which is TOXIC (specifically, it is both NEUROTOXIC and facilitates the potential influx of other TOXINS into the bloodstream)

So basically what I warned might happen has in fact happened.

Edited by ScienceGuy, 22 January 2014 - 09:15 AM.

[Lurkerbob]

I am not accusing YADAYADA of anything. YADAYADA, We are just asking for more transparency. Saying you have something is not acceptable language unless you have it in your possession. I am not accusing you of anything but stating that those involved in the group buy should be updated on a regular basis with complete and accurate details and be consulted in any instance of change in terms.

In this case because of lack of transparency and ability of the group members to participate in deciding what was to be done about the quick oxidation and measurement problems of the substance, DMSO was chosen as the solvent and at an incredibly high proportion. They could have diluted the mixture around 6.6 times less and everybody could use only one drop. A lot less DMSO to drink and cheaper shipping costs. Or better yet the participants might have been given the opportunity to choose a different solvent.

So, with regards to the bpap remaining I suggest that it be diluted in powder form or if a liquid has to be chosen, the members of this thread are involved in determining what that liquid is. It does not need to be diluted so heavily which would make shipping much easier.

Please do not take this as a personal attack, this thread does often get sidetracked

Edited by Lurkerbob, 22 January 2014 - 12:05 PM.

[Lurkerbob]

Does anybody on this site have any suggestions with regards to preservation and measurement of the remaining bpap? If the manufacturer could measure out 40 mg packets then participants could mix the substance themselves. 1 mg being 10 doses 40 mg would be 400 doses, roughly. Are we sure that if kept the bpap at the right temperature, in the right solvent we could only keep it for a month? There must be a way around this. Science guy? Googolitarian? Anybody know how it could be done? The people already selling the compound must have some insights into the preservation of the compound. This I see as the number one issue that must be dealt with in this thread.

Edited by Lurkerbob, 22 January 2014 - 12:19 PM.

[xks201]

I am not a professional chemist yet but as a Chem student I do not see how aadding dmso and putting powder in a liquid form would extend the half life. I received bpap 8 mg powder from another supplier with no such caveats other than to keep the powder out of light. I would think that if the supplier knew what they were doing they would not claim the compound was unstable in powder.

Edited by xks201, 22 January 2014 - 02:20 PM.

[Reformed-Redan]

And ScienceGuy, don't bother me with your panderings... this whole discussion ended when you stated that Chinese suppliers are not to be trusted in that other thread. Bigot.

Ignoring YOUR further AD HOMINEM, so as to debunk your RIDICULOUS STRAWMAN let’s see what I ACTUALLY said shall we?:

I strongly advise extreme caution with regards to dealing with CHINESE chemical synthesis companies... whilst there is the odd exception, the vast majority quite simply cannot be trusted... if the product is indeed what it should be, then it is exceedingly likely that it will NOT meet the PURITY specified … Even if the product is (mostly) what it claims to be, then typically it will contain significant levels of IMPURITIES which could include TOXIC REAGENTS

I should add that reputable CHINESE COMPANIES do exist, but due to the considerable number of untrustworthy ones it is a sad fact that they are akin to a diamond in a sea of zircons... My advice is to only deal with said [Chinese] companies that have already an established proven track record on being bona fide and on the level.

So, I NEVER actually said that ALL Chinese Suppliers are not to be trusted, did I? In fact, I have deliberately pointed out that "reputable CHINESE COMPANIES do exist"... I simply advise to deal only with Chinese companies "that have already an established proven track record on being bona fide and on the level". So let's please ditch the STRAWMAN once and for all, OK?

With the utmost respect I have over 20 years' professional experience with respect to managing the sourcing and purchasing of raw material ingredients, including chemicals, from all over the world... as such I believe I am qualified to state such an opinion... and BTW it is just that, my OPINION, you do not have to agree with it... and everyone else is intelligent enough to form their own opinion regarding this matter.

Furthermore, for what it is worth, please note my advance warning that: "if the product is indeed what it should be, then it is exceedingly likely that it will NOT meet the PURITY specified … Even if the product is (mostly) what it claims to be, then typically it will contain significant levels of IMPURITIES which could include TOXIC REAGENTS"

Wherein, it should be noted that as I warned might happen, the resultant product:

1) Does NOT meet the PURITY specified;
2) It contains significant levels of IMPURITIES (as established / confirmed by URALSKY); and
3) It contains DMSO which is TOXIC (specifically, it is both NEUROTOXIC and facilitates the potential influx of other TOXINS into the bloodstream)

So basically what I warned might happen has in fact happened.

I have nothing to add to what has been said regarding that previous topic. I don't know why you keep bringing it up. Here is the straight bull:

You were responsible to the lab analysis of BPAP.
You neglected that responsibility because of a single mishap on which you mounted an attack against Chineese suppliers in general (I'm not going to adress the points I already addressed in that previous thread.)
I offered a 1g sample, that was offered gratis from the supplier. I do not have a 1g sample in crystilline form sitting around in my house. I don't have a cryopreservant with vacuum sealed mylar bags or whatnot. DMSO was used to minimize degradation, not to poison anyone.
Nobody took on that 1g sample, yet, I was bashed for not doing all the work, your work I should say, also.
Now I'm offering that 1g sample, which is god forbid not mine, per say, to anyone who has the lab equipment and necessary tools.
Uralsky will set a sample and we will see what comes of it. I just have to organize that too for him.


So, what have you contributed to the group buy ScienceGuy? Accusations against the supplier, then latter me? Throwing around posts from old topics to prove something about me, or rather yourself? If you have nothing to contribute to the group buy, then I suggest we shake hands and end the whole arguing.

[Reformed-Redan]

I am not a professional chemist yet but as a Chem student I do not see how aadding dmso and putting powder in a liquid form would extend the half life. I received bpap 8 mg powder from another supplier with no such caveats other than to keep the powder out of light. I would think that if the supplier knew what they were doing they would not claim the compound was unstable in powder.

Neither am I. I suspect that the supplier might be forthcoming and honest otherwise it might dissuade customers from purchasing a perishable product. It might be easier to also measure the compound out in DMSO. Though I'm still not really sure what is so bad about DMSO.

[Lurkerbob]

3 posts up. Please somebody on the site answer. There must be somebody here who can

[xks201]

My source says it will last more than a month in water. Mine has.

[golden1]

this is cringe-inducing. . my god

anyway xks, maybe if you email whoever you got yours from they will let you know what salt they have it in & how long you should expect it to last(edit: in powder form?)

Edited by golden1, 22 January 2014 - 04:51 PM.

[ScienceGuy]

You were responsible to the lab analysis of BPAP.
You neglected that responsibility because of a single mishap on which you mounted an attack against Chineese suppliers in general...
I offered a 1g sample, that was offered gratis from the supplier. I do not have a 1g sample in crystilline form sitting around in my house. I don't have a cryopreservant with vacuum sealed mylar bags or whatnot. DMSO was used to minimize degradation, not to poison anyone.
Nobody took on that 1g sample, yet, I was bashed for not doing all the work, your work I should say, also.
Now I'm offering that 1g sample, which is god forbid not mine, per say, to anyone who has the lab equipment and necessary tools.
Uralsky will set a sample and we will see what comes of it. I just have to organize that too for him.


So, what have you contributed to the group buy ScienceGuy? Accusations against the supplier, then latter me? Throwing around posts from old topics to prove something about me, or rather yourself?

WOW... Seriously, OMFG! Who do you think you are kidding with all that BS?

Let's agree to disagree OK?

[Reformed-Redan]

You were responsible to the lab analysis of BPAP.
You neglected that responsibility because of a single mishap on which you mounted an attack against Chineese suppliers in general...
I offered a 1g sample, that was offered gratis from the supplier. I do not have a 1g sample in crystilline form sitting around in my house. I don't have a cryopreservant with vacuum sealed mylar bags or whatnot. DMSO was used to minimize degradation, not to poison anyone.
Nobody took on that 1g sample, yet, I was bashed for not doing all the work, your work I should say, also.
Now I'm offering that 1g sample, which is god forbid not mine, per say, to anyone who has the lab equipment and necessary tools.
Uralsky will set a sample and we will see what comes of it. I just have to organize that too for him.


So, what have you contributed to the group buy ScienceGuy? Accusations against the supplier, then latter me? Throwing around posts from old topics to prove something about me, or rather yourself?

WOW... Seriously, OMFG! Who do you think you are kidding with all that BS?

Let's agree to disagree OK?

What are you OMFG'ing for? Didn't you say you would test the compound and redistribute it to EU/EK participants? Did you do any of that? Nope. I can still offer you 1g of crystalline powder BPAP if you want to test it. I don't care if your feelings or my feelings are hurt. For the sake of the group buy, will you test it?

[Reformed-Redan]

I'm way more interested in testing novel compounds than getting all ruffled up over a silly matter. IDRA-21, ISRIB, Pitolisant, 7,8-dihydroxyflavone, Ladostigil, BPAP, Modafinil derivatives, a7n PAM's/agonists, NMDA modulators, PRL-8-53, NSI-189, GLYX-13-that's what I'm here for. Not to argue over how imperfect a group buy BPAP was, even though in the end everyone got to try a compound that was left in the annals of medicine by Dr. Joseph Knoll years ago.

[Werper]

So far it's really starting to looking like Yada profited close to 4k on this group buy transaction. The more he's getting pinned into a corner, the more it's becoming apparent.

[Reformed-Redan]

Cheers

So far it's really starting to looking like Yada profited close to 4k on this group buy transaction. The more he's getting pinned into a corner, the more it's becoming apparent.

I don't feel pinned at all. I'm not at the Bahamas enjoying a pina colada. If the point was for me to scam you guys, I would have just took the money and run. Why the hell would I still bother posting here for a grand 4k! Beats me.

[Werper]

To refer to this matter as a "silly matter" is rather euphemistic to say the least. The truth of the matter is we are trying to get to the bottom of what is appearing to look more and more like FRAUD. I think at this point what we need (as stated before) is an elected official to contact your supplier so we can proceed with an understanding that what you have been saying is truth. Do we want the (supposed) supplier send another EMPTY VIAL? No. We need the supplier's name. Plain and simple.

Edited by Werper, 22 January 2014 - 05:40 PM.

[Reformed-Redan]

To refer to this matter as a "silly matter" is rather euphemistic to say the least. The truth of the matter is we are trying to get to the bottom of what is appearing to look more and more like FRAUD. I think at this point what we need (as stated before) is an elected official to contact your supplier so we can proceed with an understanding that what you have been saying is truth. Do we want the (supposed) supplier send another EMPTY VIAL? No. We need the supplier's name. Plain and simple.

Oh my, more accusations! Fraud of what? Whats your problem, Werper? You are the only person who is complaining from the group buy. I want to get a 3'rd party test done as much as you guys. I will contact the supplier and have him come and talk here. Uralsky will also get to test a sample sent to him.

[Werper]

"I don't feel pinned at all. I'm not at the Bahamas enjoying a pina colada. If the point was for me to scam you guys, I would have just took the money and run. Why the hell would I still bother posting here for a grand 4k! Beats me."

What's the total amount of money you have received from all the group buys in the works right now?

Why don't you give Uralsky your suppliers name and number so he can contact him personally.

You really think I am the only one that isn't happy with this group buy???

[Reformed-Redan]

"I don't feel pinned at all. I'm not at the Bahamas enjoying a pina colada. If the point was for me to scam you guys, I would have just took the money and run. Why the hell would I still bother posting here for a grand 4k! Beats me."

What's the total amount of money you have received from all the group buys in the works right now?

Yeah, you can fuck off Mr.IRS. lol, who do you think you are? You think I'm here to make millions off of you? Don't fucking fool yourself. I wouldn't be bothering with sending extra vials, going through the hassle of getting the compound and dicking around my time with you if I were in it for the money.

"I don't feel pinned at all. I'm not at the Bahamas enjoying a pina colada. If the point was for me to scam you guys, I would have just took the money and run. Why the hell would I still bother posting here for a grand 4k! Beats me."

What's the total amount of money you have received from all the group buys in the works right now?

Why don't you give Uralsky your suppliers name and number so he can contact him personally.

You really think I am the only one that isn't happy with this group buy???

Go see a fucking therapist. I didn't guarantee you happiness in a pill. I don't know what kind of grandiose expectations you had at the start of this group buy; but, they sure didn't come to pass.

[Werper]

I don't have any expectations other than for the people I am dealing with to be honest and forthright in regards to whatever arrangements we have agreed to. In order for that to happen I think it's empirical you provide details of your supplier to Uralsky.

[sparkk51]

Just want to say yadayada is right in that he shouldnt be here right now if he was trying to scam us. Werper, please leave the matter alone if you aren't a participant. You're making matters worse.