166 replies to this topic

[username]

What's so bad about caffeine? Recent news on caffeine and coffee have been rather positive. It makes sense not to take it when you're anxious.
I never saw any improvement with not drinking coffee, though - even with anxiety.

Edited by longschi, 19 February 2014 - 09:11 AM.

[Sciencyst]

Nicotine IS much worse than caffeine. It is directly carcinogenic and a lethal dose is <100mg, it causes tolerance and addiction in a manner much worse than caffeine, aaand it turns your siemen yellow.

That being said, it is an effective nootropic, weight loss agent, and antidepressant.

[Jeoshua]

As to the idea that nicotine being directly carcinogenic, I would ask that you provide a study proving that. There are a few caveats to that request:

1) The study must be about nicotine only, pharmaceutical or reagent grade, and not tobacco.
2) The study must not burn this nicotine. Smoke causes cancer, on it's own.
3) The subject must not be cancerous in the first place. Using already cancerous cells to prove something is a carcinogen is cheating.

My guess is that you won't find one. Every study I have ever seen that supposedly proves that nicotine is a carcinogen has actually been either about smoke, tobacco extracts, or a study on human tumor cells implanted into rats.

[socialpiranha]

i was just gonna say i had never heard that nicotine itself was carcinogenic and thee are lots of safe drugs where the ld50/effective dose ratio is similar to nicotine

[Heraclitus]

Objective To examine the clinical and cognitive efficacy and safety of add-on treatment of sodium benzoate for schizophrenia.

Design, Setting, and Participants A randomized, double-blind, placebo-controlled trial in 2 major medical centers in Taiwan composed of 52 patients with chronic schizophrenia who had been stabilized with antipsychotic medications for 3 months or longer.

Interventions Six weeks of add-on treatment of 1 g/d of sodium benzoate or placebo.

Main Outcomes and Measures The primary outcome measure was the Positive and Negative Syndrome Scale (PANSS) total score. Clinical efficacy and adverse effects were assessed biweekly. Cognitive functions were measured before and after the add-on treatment.

Results Benzoate produced a 21% improvement in PANSS total score and large effect sizes (range, 1.16-1.69) in the PANSS total and subscales, Scales for the Assessment of Negative Symptoms–20 items, Global Assessment of Function, Quality of Life Scale and Clinical Global Impression and improvement in the neurocognition subtests as recommended by the National Institute of Mental Health’s Measurement and Treatment Research to Improve Cognition in Schizophrenia initiative, including the domains of processing speed and visual learning. Benzoate was well tolerated without significant adverse effects.

Conclusions and Relevance Benzoate adjunctive therapy significantly improved a variety of symptom domains and neurocognition in patients with chronic schizophrenia. The preliminary results show promise for d-amino acid oxidase inhibition as a novel approach for new drug development for schizophrenia.

[YoungSchizo]

I tried sodium benzoate just for two days because it gave me brainfog and made me feel really uncomfortable. (and it's taste is friggin nasty)

[Heraclitus]

I tried sodium benzoate just for two days because it gave me brainfog and made me feel really uncomfortable. (and it's taste is friggin nasty)

At what dose? Have you considered trying it at a lower dose? What else were you taking? Did it help you at all?

[Heraclitus]

Adjuvant aspirin therapy reduces symptoms of schizophrenia spectrum disorders: results from a randomized, double-blind, placebo-controlled trial.

A recent study showed that aspirin reduces the core symptoms of schizophrenia]. Although the study had a relatively small number of participants (n = 70), it did show a benefit of aspirin 1,000 mg compared with placebo over 3 months of treatment. Using the Positive and Negative Symptoms Scale (PANSS), improvements were seen on the total PANSS and the positive subscale.

[YoungSchizo]

I tried sodium benzoate just for two days because it gave me brainfog and made me feel really uncomfortable. (and it's taste is friggin nasty)

At what dose? Have you considered trying it at a lower dose? What else were you taking? Did it help you at all?

First 1g like in the trials, second 500mg. No, like I said, didn't help, but maybe it will help if you use it for a longer period.. (This study is only one which conclude this, there are more study's needed to prove if sodium benzoate really helps.

Adjuvant aspirin therapy reduces symptoms of schizophrenia spectrum disorders: results from a randomized, double-blind, placebo-controlled trial.

A recent study showed that aspirin reduces the core symptoms of schizophrenia]. Although the study had a relatively small number of participants (n = 70), it did show a benefit of aspirin 1,000 mg compared with placebo over 3 months of treatment. Using the Positive and Negative Symptoms Scale (PANSS), improvements were seen on the total PANSS and the positive subscale.

I sometimes use paracetamol because of these study results, the next day I wake up I notice sort of a mental clarity (don't know if it's coincidence, but the study's on aspirin as adjunct are well studied and proven it helps to some degree).

[username]

Interesting study, but I have a few problems with it.

1) 1g of aspirin is quite a bit
2) ginkgo and fish oil are also blood thinners. I'm worried about combining several blood thinners.

I believe that taking other anti-inflammatory blood thinners can do the same without having to risk internal bleeding. 80mg of aspirin would be different, but taking 1g of aspirin on a long-term basis doesn't sound all that safe to me.

[Max Headroom Incident]

Props to OP for seeking out alternative treatments and getting cognitive behavioral therapy! Too many people JUST take psych meds without working on themselves and their physical health.

Schizophrenia is such a fascinating (albeit terrifying) disease that explodes like a timebomb and takes over everything. I've always wondered about the true underlying causes. After taking Risperdal as a teen, I sympathize with anyone who has to take toxic anti-psychotics. While they can be helpful for severe acute psychosis, I don't think they're an optimal long-term daily treatment for most people.

Successful schizophrenics like John Nash and Elyn Saks seem to be able to hone in on their intellectual gifts while "tuning out" symptoms of the disease. Having a good support system in place is vital too. The hallucinations may never fully stop, but if you can learn to distinguish them from reality that's half the battle. (And taking meds when you really need them).

[username]

Thanks
I had a couple of hallucinations the last two days, but very short and not too bad. It pissed me off a little bit because I hadn't had them in a while (They come when I'm stressed, anxious etc.)

But I'm still alright and antipsychotics would probably only help with major hallucinations, not the small stuff. They usually don't get rid of all positive symptoms.
Next on my list: c60 olive oil. Just took the first dose.

Edited by longschi, 21 February 2014 - 10:52 AM.

[YoungSchizo]

Longschi dude, I emphasize on trying like 0.5mg Clonazepam (or a short working benzo) for the minor hallucination/anxiety you experience when stressed. If you don't want to use benzo's permanently, just take one, when needed (you won't regret).

Edited by YoungSchizo, 21 February 2014 - 09:51 PM.

[socialpiranha]

klonopin is a good drug but i think not getting addicted to it is fairly rare, and benzo addiction/withdrawal is hellish. Just try to keep your stress level down and stay grounded to logic and statistics.

[InBetween]

Guys, could you look at the stack I want to use and answer me some questions about dosage?

Fish oil - 2g EPA
N-acetylcystein - dosage?
Sarcosine + D-aspartic Acid
Glycine? D-Serine? Are they contraindicative with sarcosine?
Curcumin
Methylfolate - I saw that schizophrenics should avoid folate..so?
L-theanine
Methylcobalamine
Vitamin D
Pregnelolone - dosage?
L-Lysine - dosage?
Mirtazapine
Abilify
Minocycline
Nefiracetam
Galantamine - dosage
DHEA
Pramiracetam
Ginseng panax
Bacopa monnieri
Rhodiela rosea
Sulbutamine
Uridine

I will try to get my hands on adderall and see what it does with it, but it's expensive to get ilegally and virtually impossible to get legally. I might get some modafinil from India, if that's for any help.
Also naltrexolone would be nice, as my symptoms are mostly negative, the positive one is DP/DR.

Edited by InBetween, 22 February 2014 - 02:56 PM.

[downregulated]

You should not take adderal (amphetamine) with antipsychotic medication, highly unrecommended!
Fish oil every day is good with some methylcobalmine.
Sarcosine is very good against negative and positive symptoms, 2 grams a day.
It is wise to recycle the use of sarcosine as it depletes glycine so recycle the use os sarcosine with glycine.
It works for me as a charm.
Also try some gotu kola and ashwaganda.
For me, occasional SSNRI use is very beneficial when I want to boost my mood.
I'm also on olanzapine, but not zyprexa. I use it every other day as it works better for me that way.
Been symptoms free for more that two years and will keep it this way.
L-Theanine is also good for a nice clear relaxation, but I get it from the tea I regulary drink so I don't supplement if anymore.
I avoid coffee as it makes me bad. Avoid stimulants and psychedelics.
I don't have schizophrenia but I had couple of psychotic episodes when I was very very stressed about my life and health.
You should experiment with what works best for you because we are all individuals with different brain chemistry and that makes us unique.
And I would also suggest not to smoke weed as it upregulates 5HTP-A2 receptors and you don't want that if you're prone to psychosis.

Edited by downregulated, 22 February 2014 - 02:55 PM.

[InBetween]

I am not prone to psychosis much, I think I never had any, only anxiety-related problems (not anymore), and massive DP/DR. I hope for Sarcosine.
Medievil in his posts speaks highly of methylfolate. He also advocates adderall because it's effects on cognitive fuctions.

[hathor]

I don't recommend stacking so many things, you'll have no idea what is or isn't working and the combination of a lot of stuff can lead to various problems

[InBetween]

Do you think that more sarcosine will do better, or the curve is U-shaped?

[InBetween]

Ok, stack one will be made of:
Sarcosine
D-Aspartic acid
NAC
Pregnelolone
Herbs
Pramiracetam

stack two:
Minocycline
Mirtazepam
Galantamine
Methylfolate
Uridine

stack three:
the rest

[socialpiranha]

This "stack" word needs to be thrown out the window since when is taking several different things ever a good thing. Brain chemistry is so delicate it's almost impossible to know everything that one single substance is doing let alone fifteen. Try one thing at a time until you know it is having positive effects(not placebo) then you can add to it or subtract it, I've been around the nootropic/mental health forums for ten years and i have never seen someone have continued success with a stack of any more than three or four things. Just think about all of the stress it is putting on your body to deal with all of the weird shit your throwing into it, enzymes it has to make to digest them the liver metabolizing it all blah blah blah. The body is a finely tuned machine any attempt to modulate it has to be extremely precise and gentle, Just throwing a whole bunch of chemicals down your gullet hoping something will work is like throwing gas on a fire while your cooking a hotdog

[downregulated]

I don't think you need so many stuff. What exactly are you trying to achieve? If you're not psychotic and don't have positive/negative symptoms I'm not sure this topic is the right one to discuss about your issues.
Mixing all these stuff together might do you more harm than good.
You need to try using one thing at the time for some time and see what it does for you.
I don't even know what are all those "stack two" substances and I believe you don't need any of them.
Galantamine is not weak substance, you should be very careful about it. I don't reccomend mixing all those, it's not wise.
Start with one substance. If you have anxiety try ashwaganda.

[socialpiranha]

Here's what i would do, stop taking everything, start sarcosine, give it a week if it's helping stay on it if not stop, keep doing the same with these bacopa, abilify, nefiracetam. forget about the rest.

[username]

I think I'll try to cut down with all the supps soon as well and try to find out what actually works. But that will be hard to do.
I still don't have the pure sarcosine
I'm kinda afraid, though. I've achieved something I never thought was possible just a few months ago.

[YoungSchizo]

klonopin is a good drug but i think not getting addicted to it is fairly rare, and benzo addiction/withdrawal is hellish. Just try to keep your stress level down and stay grounded to logic and statistics.

If you have schizophrenia define "addiction", I mean, being forced to be lifelong on (high dosages of) antipsychotics isn't that also considered to be an "addiction"? The psychosis itself and the psychiatrists scared the shit out of me to take antipsychotics for the rest of my life (1st. antipsychotics never really worked for me, 2nd. I started pooping out Zyprexa after 7 chronic years of use), yet, I found the biggest relieve in just 1.5mg a day Klonopin which I don't crave to take a larger dose of.

[YoungSchizo]

Guys, could you look at the stack I want to use and answer me some questions about dosage?

Fish oil - 2g EPA
N-acetylcystein - dosage?
Sarcosine + D-aspartic Acid
Glycine? D-Serine? Are they contraindicative with sarcosine?
Curcumin
Methylfolate - I saw that schizophrenics should avoid folate..so?
L-theanine
Methylcobalamine
Vitamin D
Pregnelolone - dosage?
L-Lysine - dosage?
Mirtazapine
Abilify
Minocycline
Nefiracetam
Galantamine - dosage
DHEA
Pramiracetam
Ginseng panax
Bacopa monnieri
Rhodiela rosea
Sulbutamine
Uridine

I will try to get my hands on adderall and see what it does with it, but it's expensive to get ilegally and virtually impossible to get legally. I might get some modafinil from India, if that's for any help.
Also naltrexolone would be nice, as my symptoms are mostly negative, the positive one is DP/DR.

Fish oil - 2g EPA (Don't know if it does help schizo, I use it for general (mental)health)
N-acetylcystein - dosage? (1200mg should do the trick)
Sarcosine + D-aspartic Acid (Sarco's effective range are 2x2/3g a day, I only use 2/3 a day)
Glycine? D-Serine? Are they contraindicative with sarcosine? (Don't think you need these if you already take Sarco. Sarco alone is proven to be more effective than both)
Curcumin (Turmeric Curcumin I started a few days ago, don't know if it helps, yet..)
Methylfolate - I saw that schizophrenics should avoid folate..so? (Methylfolate being effective in schizo are at 15mg a day)
L-theanine (Have it, don't need it, I'm on a Benz(o) )
Methylcobalamine (Take it, don't know if it helps with anything)
Vitamin D (Take it at 5000iu. You are from the Czech Republic, just take it, we "rarely" enjoy the vitamin D's from the sun anyway)
Pregnelolone - dosage? (My Preg ranges from 50mg to 300mg, in study's it has been taken up to 500mg without any adverse effects)
L-Lysine - dosage? (Don't recall the helpfull dosage, though, there are some study's showing it helps to reduce positives)
Mirtazapine (I'm at 30mg)
Abilify (is a motherfucker)
Minocycline (Still need, and really need to try this one)
Nefiracetam (Tried it for a week, it masks some symptoms, when it wares off, symptoms also return. Didn't find it pleasant to take it each day, felt really drugged.)
Galantamine - dosage (Never tried)
DHEA (DHEA + Preg seem to help some people, DHEA at a lose dose, however, DHEA can have more serious side-effects than Preg. DHEA has been pulled off the Dutch market for that reason)
Pramiracetam (Didn't try it, I have some Aniracetam laying around because of some claims it helps, haven't tried it yet. There was one schizo guy on Longecity who tried Prami and it immediately triggered positives)
Ginseng panax (Didn't try it)
Bacopa monnieri (Didn't try it)
Rhodiela rosea (I have in my multivitamin, don't know if it helps or what it does on it's own)
Sulbutamine (Didn't try it)
Uridine (Didn't try it)

Edited by YoungSchizo, 23 February 2014 - 05:58 AM.

[Heraclitus]

Replying to Inbetween, but used YoungS's post:

Fish oil - 2g EPA (Don't know if it does help schizo, I use it for general (mental)health)
- One study indicates 2g EPA w/ 1g Vitamin C + 400ug Vitamin E

N-acetylcysteine - dosage? (1200mg should do the trick)
- Between 1 and 1.8g/d, I like 1-1.5g.

Sarcosine + D-aspartic Acid (Sarco's effective range are 2x2/3g a day, I only use 2/3 a day)
- There's a U-shaped dosage curve with the Sarcosine that hits the sweet spot at 2g/d

L-theanine (Have it, don't need it, I'm on a Benz(o) )
- 400mg/d in one study. There is the distinct possibility that, as a glutamine analogue, one of the MOA's is glutamanergic in some other way than strictly GABAergic.

Pregnelolone - dosage? (My Preg ranges from 50mg to 300mg, in study's it has been taken up to 500mg without any adverse effects)
- 100mg/d. More than that I have found to be unsettling, although as YoungS points out, up to 500mg is worth trying if you need it.

L-Lysine - dosage? (Don't recall the helpfull dosage, though, there are some study's showing it helps to reduce positives)
- 6g/d. I have found it more helpful at 4g/d.


Those are my top six supplements. I think all of them have some proven clinical efficacy as adjunctive treatments in combination with either clozapine, haloperidol or olanzapine (mostly with olanzapine if I recall correctly). Good luck!

[socialpiranha]

everything there is bad for schizophrenia other than sarcosine and n-acetylcysteine...epa is extremely bad for it while pure dha is extremely good for it.

[socialpiranha]

klonopin is a good drug but i think not getting addicted to it is fairly rare, and benzo addiction/withdrawal is hellish. Just try to keep your stress level down and stay grounded to logic and statistics.

If you have schizophrenia define "addiction", I mean, being forced to be lifelong on (high dosages of) antipsychotics isn't that also considered to be an "addiction"? The psychosis itself and the psychiatrists scared the shit out of me to take antipsychotics for the rest of my life (1st. antipsychotics never really worked for me, 2nd. I started pooping out Zyprexa after 7 chronic years of use), yet, I found the biggest relieve in just 1.5mg a day Klonopin which I don't crave to take a larger dose of.

The fact is schizophrenia is mainly a psychological problem and any drug treatment should only be used to stabilize a temporarily unstable situation. It isn't a genetic certainty like downs syndrome one twin will develop it and the other won't based on psychological events in their development. Any drug which has a good chance of causing physical dependence will most likely just exacerbate the situation. Addiction is physical dependence, antipsychotics are taken long term due to a lack of resolution of psychological disturbances. Taking antipsychotics indefinitely is only necessary in the absence of proper care in the majority of cases. Most doctors perpetuate the idea that schizophrenia is a lifelong disorder but it doesn't have to be in lots of cases it is more of an identity crisis/inability to cope with reality of the 20's which is done by their 30's. It's really just the reaction of an intelligent sensitive mind to the harsh and unbelievably intense truths of reality. There is no physical addiction to antipsychotics, it is improper care which keeps people on them for life.

[Heraclitus]

everything there is bad for schizophrenia other than sarcosine and n-acetylcysteine...epa is extremely bad for it while pure dha is extremely good for it.

Do you speak from personal experience? All of them can be easily researched at PubMed.