166 replies to this topic

[username]

everything there is bad for schizophrenia other than sarcosine and n-acetylcysteine...epa is extremely bad for it while pure dha is extremely good for it.

Source?
In a dosage study, 1g/EPA worked best for depression. In schizophrenia, it was 2g. These were small studies and shouldn't be overrated. The optimal dosage is unclear.
Dosage probably shouldn't exceed 2g. EPA can induce an arachidonic acid deficiency at higher dosages, it seems.

[username]

klonopin is a good drug but i think not getting addicted to it is fairly rare, and benzo addiction/withdrawal is hellish. Just try to keep your stress level down and stay grounded to logic and statistics.

If you have schizophrenia define "addiction", I mean, being forced to be lifelong on (high dosages of) antipsychotics isn't that also considered to be an "addiction"? The psychosis itself and the psychiatrists scared the shit out of me to take antipsychotics for the rest of my life (1st. antipsychotics never really worked for me, 2nd. I started pooping out Zyprexa after 7 chronic years of use), yet, I found the biggest relieve in just 1.5mg a day Klonopin which I don't crave to take a larger dose of.

The fact is schizophrenia is mainly a psychological problem and any drug treatment should only be used to stabilize a temporarily unstable situation. It isn't a genetic certainty like downs syndrome one twin will develop it and the other won't based on psychological events in their development. Any drug which has a good chance of causing physical dependence will most likely just exacerbate the situation. Addiction is physical dependence, antipsychotics are taken long term due to a lack of resolution of psychological disturbances. Taking antipsychotics indefinitely is only necessary in the absence of proper care in the majority of cases. Most doctors perpetuate the idea that schizophrenia is a lifelong disorder but it doesn't have to be in lots of cases it is more of an identity crisis/inability to cope with reality of the 20's which is done by their 30's. It's really just the reaction of an intelligent sensitive mind to the harsh and unbelievably intense truths of reality. There is no physical addiction to antipsychotics, it is improper care which keeps people on them for life.

I'm sorry to have to say it so clearly, but this is wrong. A brother or sister of a schizophrenic has a 25% chance to become schizophrenic. A friend of mine has a schizophrenic sister (bad case) and his whole family has psychiatric problems (quite severe).
Your claims are not in any way backed up by science. Everything points to genetics.

Disrupted in schizophrenia 1 is a protein that is encoded by the DISC1 gene in humans.^[1] In coordination with a wide array of interacting partners, DISC1 has been shown to participate in the regulation of cell proliferation, differentiation, migration, neuronal axon and dendrite outgrowth, mitochondrial transport, fission and/or fusion, and cell-to-cell adhesion. Several studies have shown that unregulated expression or altered protein structure of DISC1 may predispose individuals to the development of schizophrenia, clinical depression, bipolar disorder, and other psychiatric conditions. The cellular functions that are disrupted by permutations in DISC1, which lead to the development of these disorders, have yet to be clearly defined and are the subject of current ongoing research.
[...]
Schizophrenia affects 1% of the general population and is highly heritable (emphasis added by me), providing an indication of a genetic basis.^[14] DISC1 has been associated with neurological abnormalities such as delusions, deficits in long term and working memory, diminution of gray matter volume in hippocampal and prefrontal regions.^[14] These abnormalities are also seen as symptoms of schizophrenia. As DISC1 function is involved in neurogenesis and neuroplasticity, vulnerability to schizophrenia may involve dysfunction in the hippocampus, a brain region in which adult neurogenesis occurs.^[14]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/DISC1

Edited by longschi, 23 February 2014 - 12:50 PM.

[socialpiranha]

klonopin is a good drug but i think not getting addicted to it is fairly rare, and benzo addiction/withdrawal is hellish. Just try to keep your stress level down and stay grounded to logic and statistics.

If you have schizophrenia define "addiction", I mean, being forced to be lifelong on (high dosages of) antipsychotics isn't that also considered to be an "addiction"? The psychosis itself and the psychiatrists scared the shit out of me to take antipsychotics for the rest of my life (1st. antipsychotics never really worked for me, 2nd. I started pooping out Zyprexa after 7 chronic years of use), yet, I found the biggest relieve in just 1.5mg a day Klonopin which I don't crave to take a larger dose of.

The fact is schizophrenia is mainly a psychological problem and any drug treatment should only be used to stabilize a temporarily unstable situation. It isn't a genetic certainty like downs syndrome one twin will develop it and the other won't based on psychological events in their development. Any drug which has a good chance of causing physical dependence will most likely just exacerbate the situation. Addiction is physical dependence, antipsychotics are taken long term due to a lack of resolution of psychological disturbances. Taking antipsychotics indefinitely is only necessary in the absence of proper care in the majority of cases. Most doctors perpetuate the idea that schizophrenia is a lifelong disorder but it doesn't have to be in lots of cases it is more of an identity crisis/inability to cope with reality of the 20's which is done by their 30's. It's really just the reaction of an intelligent sensitive mind to the harsh and unbelievably intense truths of reality. There is no physical addiction to antipsychotics, it is improper care which keeps people on them for life.

I'm sorry to have to say it so clearly, but this is wrong. A brother or sister of a schizophrenic has a 25% chance to become schizophrenic. A friend of mine has a schizophrenic sister (bad case) and his whole family has psychiatric problems (quite severe).
Your claims are not in any way backed up by science. Everything points to genetics.

Disrupted in schizophrenia 1 is a protein that is encoded by the DISC1 gene in humans.^[1] In coordination with a wide array of interacting partners, DISC1 has been shown to participate in the regulation of cell proliferation, differentiation, migration, neuronal axon and dendrite outgrowth, mitochondrial transport, fission and/or fusion, and cell-to-cell adhesion. Several studies have shown that unregulated expression or altered protein structure of DISC1 may predispose individuals to the development of schizophrenia, clinical depression, bipolar disorder, and other psychiatric conditions. The cellular functions that are disrupted by permutations in DISC1, which lead to the development of these disorders, have yet to be clearly defined and are the subject of current ongoing research.
[...]
Schizophrenia affects 1% of the general population and is highly heritable (emphasis added by me), providing an indication of a genetic basis.^[14] DISC1 has been associated with neurological abnormalities such as delusions, deficits in long term and working memory, diminution of gray matter volume in hippocampal and prefrontal regions.^[14] These abnormalities are also seen as symptoms of schizophrenia. As DISC1 function is involved in neurogenesis and neuroplasticity, vulnerability to schizophrenia may involve dysfunction in the hippocampus, a brain region in which adult neurogenesis occurs.^[14]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/DISC1

I didn't say it wasn't partly genetic, i said genetics don't determine why one twin gets it and the other doesn't (since they are genetically identical), Genetics can predispose someone to it but like the twin studies show it is not what ultimately determines it....sorry to have to say it so clearly lol

Edited by socialpiranha, 23 February 2014 - 01:34 PM.

[Heraclitus]

I didn't say it wasn't partly genetic, i said genetics don't determine why one twin gets it and the other doesn't (since they are genetically identical), Genetics can predispose someone to it but like the twin studies show it is not what ultimately determines it....sorry to have to say it so clearly lol

There is clear correlation between environmental factors that are purely physical and becoming schizophrenic. Schizophrenia is characterized as a neurodevelopmental disorder and sometimes as a neurodegenerative disorder, with many of the same characteristics as diseases like Alzheimers, ALS, Huntingdons, Parkinsons and vascular dementia which also have neurodegenerative components. And, regardless, psychological events/factors can precipitate physiological changes in a brain that lead to a pathological state.

So what would you say ultimately determines if person who is genetically predisposed to schizophrenia will be stricken with it? And why does that persons brain start changing in the prodomal stage and then shrink during psychotic episodes?

[username]

It came across that way. You said it was mainly psychological, not genetic, and I don't think this is true. Those who are related to someone who is severely mentally ill and don't get diagnosed with a mental illness often have problems as well - they are just not diagnosed.
People say being overweight is a choice - but look at identical twins - even when they lived apart from birth on. There are very few exceptions to this. The environment plays a huge role, but there is only so much we can change about that. Often times, we don't have a choice to what we are exposed to and how society works.

[socialpiranha]

I didn't say it wasn't partly genetic, i said genetics don't determine why one twin gets it and the other doesn't (since they are genetically identical), Genetics can predispose someone to it but like the twin studies show it is not what ultimately determines it....sorry to have to say it so clearly lol

There is clear correlation between environmental factors that are purely physical and becoming schizophrenic. Schizophrenia is characterized as a neurodevelopmental disorder and sometimes as a neurodegenerative disorder, with many of the same characteristics as diseases like Alzheimers, ALS, Huntingdons, Parkinsons and vascular dementia which also have neurodegenerative components. And, regardless, psychological events/factors can precipitate physiological changes in a brain that lead to a pathological state.

So what would you say ultimately determines if person who is genetically predisposed to schizophrenia will be stricken with it? And why does that persons brain start changing in the prodomal stage and then shrink during psychotic episodes?

Genetics can set the stage for a psychotic episode, a stressful life event can push things over the edge and set off a sort of kindling effect similar to a seizure. Similar to a seizure, there are resulting negative symptoms like anhedonia and apathy in between episodes.

I knew two girls who were identical twins, they were both kind of strange/intelligent(genetically predisposed) one of them had to deliver her child who died inside her and has been "schizophrenic" ever since. It can be like that or it can be hundreds of small traumas over time. Trauma can range from death of a loved one to abuse to identity crisis, even things like social rejection and bullying. It is usually a combination, if you look at people in their early twenties a huge majority are just one traumatic incident away from a psychotic break. Life is a strange thing to come to terms with in your mind and at that age the brain is extremely delicate and vulnerable.

[Heraclitus]

Genetics can set the stage for a psychotic episode, a stressful life event can push things over the edge and set off a sort of kindling effect similar to a seizure. Similar to a seizure, there are resulting negative symptoms like anhedonia and apathy in between episodes.

I knew two girls who were identical twins, they were both kind of strange/intelligent(genetically predisposed) one of them had to deliver her child who died inside her and has been "schizophrenic" ever since. It can be like that or it can be hundreds of small traumas over time. Trauma can range from death of a loved one to abuse to identity crisis, even things like social rejection and bullying. It is usually a combination, if you look at people in their early twenties a huge majority are just one traumatic incident away from a psychotic break. Life is a strange thing to come to terms with in your mind and at that age the brain is extremely delicate and vulnerable.

I'm not following what you're saying unless you're trying to extrapolate the general pathology of a neurodevelopmental disorder from one anecdotal report.

You also haven't said why you think L-lysine, L-theanine, Pregnenolone and EPA aren't good treatments for schizophrenia. If you're going to tell someone who's seeking help that supplements with published reports of being efficacious are not good then you should have your own evidence.

[socialpiranha]

Genetics can set the stage for a psychotic episode, a stressful life event can push things over the edge and set off a sort of kindling effect similar to a seizure. Similar to a seizure, there are resulting negative symptoms like anhedonia and apathy in between episodes.

I knew two girls who were identical twins, they were both kind of strange/intelligent(genetically predisposed) one of them had to deliver her child who died inside her and has been "schizophrenic" ever since. It can be like that or it can be hundreds of small traumas over time. Trauma can range from death of a loved one to abuse to identity crisis, even things like social rejection and bullying. It is usually a combination, if you look at people in their early twenties a huge majority are just one traumatic incident away from a psychotic break. Life is a strange thing to come to terms with in your mind and at that age the brain is extremely delicate and vulnerable.

I'm not following what you're saying unless you're trying to extrapolate the general pathology of a neurodevelopmental disorder from one anecdotal report.

You also haven't said why you think L-lysine, L-theanine, Pregnenolone and EPA aren't good treatments for schizophrenia. If you're going to tell someone who's seeking help that supplements with published reports of being efficacious are not good then you should have your own evidence.

Because there is Zero evidence that they help schizophrenia. The only evidence of any of them doing anything is in combination with an antipsychotic where they are most likely just combatting the side effects of the antipsychotic. Plus i have painstakingly tried them all personally.

[socialpiranha]

The fact that two genetically identical people can grow up together and one gets "schizophrenia" and one doesn't shows that it is caused by the chemical correlates of psychological events and the resulting change in physiology and function. If you can't wrap your mind around that it's not my problem.

[Heraclitus]

The fact that two genetically identical people can grow up together and one gets "schizophrenia" and one doesn't shows that it is caused by the chemical correlates of psychological events and the resulting change in physiology and function. If you can't wrap your mind around that it's not my problem.

Is that exclusive of physical events that result in a change of physiology and function? Such physical events such as childhood illness seem to be a factor in the development of schizophrenia. Or is your position that schizophrenia is only precipitated by psychological events that reveal an underlying predisposition?

[InBetween]

Thanks for the update on the dosages. My reason why I stacked so many things is simple - I need to try everything, not necessarily at the same time, because I simply need to get rid of, or atleast reduce my symptoms as much as possible.

My symptoms are mostly negative - flat expressions or little emotion, poverty of speech, inability to experience pleasure, lack of desire to form relationships, and lack of motivation. Positive is only depersonalisation/derealisation. It cripples the motivation even further. I have been mildly psychotic/paranoid some time ago, but frankly at that time I was more "productive" and so. Never treated it with antipsychotics, they were administered only when I visited my shrink which said that I'm schizophrenic, which was later changed to schizoaffective.

Why do you think that abilify sucks balls?

Socialpiranha, I read your opinion on depersonalisation and your explanation on schizophrenia. How old are you, and how did you did with those issues as unability to accept reality and so?

[Heraclitus]

My symptoms are mostly negative - flat expressions or little emotion, poverty of speech, inability to experience pleasure, lack of desire to form relationships, and lack of motivation.

 

You might want to look into this study. Pregnenolone, as adjunctive therapy, helped with blunted affect, avolition and anhedonia.

[InBetween]

I am ordering pregnenolone, 200mg/day and will use it for a month, see what that does.

I think I will ditch the nefiracetam and get methylfolate and methylcobalamine, as there are studies particulary for negative symptoms which got better using those. I'm already trying to get my hands on minocycline so as I do I will post results here. Also, I will try to get some mirtazapine from my shrink.

Edited by InBetween, 23 February 2014 - 05:06 PM.

[YoungSchizo]

Why do you think that abilify sucks balls?

I didn't say it sucks balls, I said it's a motherfucker (but you may have a point there, Abilify might be gay too )

Seriously, I think current antipsychotic are chemical shit that do more harm to the body/brain than good, because personally it didn't help me at all, just zombified my emotions/thoughts (for a full psychotic episode it's very effective I guess) and the dopamine hypothesis is "dead", schizophrenics seriously need a new class of medications that affects Dopamine indirectly throughout the Glutamate system. (I don't take antipsychotics, my antipsychotics are Clonazepam, Mirtazapine & Sarcosine which are 80% more effective than the Zyprexa I took for 7/8 years)

Edited by YoungSchizo, 23 February 2014 - 08:01 PM.

[socialpiranha]

The fact that two genetically identical people can grow up together and one gets "schizophrenia" and one doesn't shows that it is caused by the chemical correlates of psychological events and the resulting change in physiology and function. If you can't wrap your mind around that it's not my problem.

Is that exclusive of physical events that result in a change of physiology and function? Such physical events such as childhood illness seem to be a factor in the development of schizophrenia. Or is your position that schizophrenia is only precipitated by psychological events that reveal an underlying predisposition?

Its my position that schizophrenia is not an entity rather a set of variables which when combined(in countless combinations) results in a common presentation. The massive amount of possible combinations of variables that will present as schizophrenia explain the rare occurrences of childhood onset and late life onset.

What i really want to stress is that schizophrenia requires delusion to exist, you can trace any psychotic episode back to one or many delusional beliefs. If you charted the development of the delusional thinking you could get a sense of the exponential kindling effect. The initial delusion might be very subtle and socially accepted but by the time it fully blooms its full blown psychotic. Psychological stress is the fuel for the fire and it feeds off itself. Thoughts have to be distorted In order for the other senses to become distorted which is why so much of the new research on schizophrenia is being done on sensory gating and cognitive enhancement.

All of the variables come together to set the perfect scene for the fire to be lit, genetics, parenting, culture, siblings, etc and yes it's possible a virus could change biochemistry or even damage parts of the brain, even head trauma could be a variable but in the end there is no possibility of psychosis in the absence of delusion.

[socialpiranha]

Thanks for the update on the dosages. My reason why I stacked so many things is simple - I need to try everything, not necessarily at the same time, because I simply need to get rid of, or atleast reduce my symptoms as much as possible.

My symptoms are mostly negative - flat expressions or little emotion, poverty of speech, inability to experience pleasure, lack of desire to form relationships, and lack of motivation. Positive is only depersonalisation/derealisation. It cripples the motivation even further. I have been mildly psychotic/paranoid some time ago, but frankly at that time I was more "productive" and so. Never treated it with antipsychotics, they were administered only when I visited my shrink which said that I'm schizophrenic, which was later changed to schizoaffective.

Why do you think that abilify sucks balls?

Socialpiranha, I read your opinion on depersonalisation and your explanation on schizophrenia. How old are you, and how did you did with those issues as unability to accept reality and so?

I'm 28 and i'm just in the end stages of dealing with it all myself, I had to come to terms with reality that's really what mental illness is,an inability to come to terms with reality. Most people have the ability to ignore reality enough that it seeps in over a lifetime and they often die never facing reality, people with mental illness catch a glipse of reality so intensely that the brain uses drastic fantasy to escape. It's only when the fantasy becomes problematic that it is labelled Psychosis. Believing god compelled you to help children in africa is considered sane but believing god compelled you to kill people is psychotic? No they are both psychotic not because its impossible because there is no evidence.

I have personally never had any drastic delusions like that because i'm an atheist and very scientific minded but i did have what you might call hallucinations of aliens coming into my house. It was very real at the time but i could see the point at which it transformed from imagination to belief. I had the same thing happen several times after that and was able to stop it short because i had applied critical thought to the delusion that allowed it to bypass my logical mind that first time. Emotion can be a very powerful influence on the ability to judge probability whether it's thinking god chose you to change the world or aliens have come to abduct you lol. Like i always say people wouldn't believe in god if religion didn't offer them eternal life or an explanation for how and why were here, the two things humans want most.

[InBetween]

YoungSchizo: So I guess I am gonna ditch that too. I saw some hope in it's being a partial dopamine agonist and reports that it makes people more active. On the other side to this day antipsychotics were more of a problem then a solution, I would take an anxious trip anytime over this numbed, "nothingness" state of being.

socialpiranha: I somewhat support the thesis that mental illneses are some of defence or coping mechanisms. I think that my schizophrenia, especially it's negative and dissociative part was a solution to a permanent problem of dying, endlessly being scared of it and enjoying the crippling sensation that it brings. I really don't fear death that much. For a price of giving your life away.

Where do you guys get your sarcosine? I ordered mine from smartpowders as I didn't find it anywhere else, but the shipping really sucks. I basically pay the amount for sarcosine for a chance it will reach me.

[YoungSchizo]

I also buy it from Smartpowders, however, my first buy was from China, here (min. 1KG for app. $80,- )

[socialpiranha]

smartpowders are very reliable in my experience

[username]

What you're saying makes sense. But in the end there is a strong predisposition. If this predisposition to mental illness is strong, you are more vulnerable / less resilient. That means that you get traumatized more easily and get mentally ill more easily.
I do believe that traumatic life events trigger mental illness. But sometimes - when the predisposition is strong - it's just a matter of time because these people - including me - get traumatized more easily.

I don't know about you guys, but I already had problems as a child. Sometimes I thought my dreams actually happened. I was very aggressive. I was bullied for many, many years - severely.
At a young age, I developed an eating disorder temporarily. I became severely depressed as a teenager. And last year I became psychotic.
While I know that traumatic life events played a huge role, I also believe that becoming mentally ill would have probably happened either way. Maybe not as severely, but still - it would have happened. Unless everything had been 'perfect'.

[addx]

Stress-Induced Activation of the Dynorphin/κ-Opioid Receptor System in the Amygdala Potentiates Nicotine Conditioned Place Preference

http://www.jneurosci.../32/4/1488.full

I find this interesting for this topic since the known ability of nicotine to help schizophrenic symptoms being brought into connection with the currently interesting kappa opioid receptors

[InBetween]

Longschi how old are you?

[Nobility]

+rep

there are many great posts here and experiences here with the meds and what not.
+rep to you guys
!!!

[YoungSchizo]

+rep

there are many great posts here and experiences here with the meds and what not.
+rep to you guys
!!!

We definitely deserve some Longecity dollars don't you think? How but some +'s to all posts

What can one buy with LC dollars anyways..? Unlimited Lifespan supplements...?

[Jeoshua]

What can one buy with LC dollars anyways..?

A membership.

[YoungSchizo]

What can one buy with LC dollars anyways..?

A membership.

If I'm a member do I get a unlimited lifespan? question.. question..

[formergenius]

@Formergenius

Thanks m8, I will keep those options for in the future if EVP doesn't work out for me. Though, I'm very optimistic about EVP, I think and hope EVP will give another part of me back to me again!

Hey! Any updates on the EVP-6124? IIRC you said you'd be trialling it in February? I might have misremembered that though.

[YoungSchizo]

@Formergenius

Thanks m8, I will keep those options for in the future if EVP doesn't work out for me. Though, I'm very optimistic about EVP, I think and hope EVP will give another part of me back to me again!

Hey! Any updates on the EVP-6124? IIRC you said you'd be trialling it in February? I might have misremembered that though.

Nope, they're still waiting for a approval from the Dutch MEB (Medicine Evaluation Board), so I'm still waiting for a inclusion/exclusion interview call/appointment.

You guys already did a group-buy on EVP, how did that end?

[formergenius]

Nope, they're still waiting for a approval from the Dutch MEB (Medicine Evaluation Board), so I'm still waiting for a inclusion/exclusion interview call/appointment.

You guys already did a group-buy on EVP, how did that end?

Ahh sorry to hear that it's taking so long. Any idea on when you'll know more?

ETA of EVP-6124 is April IIRC, so should be able to try it soon

Edited by formergenius, 08 March 2014 - 09:33 PM.

[YoungSchizo]

No, last time I called only thing they said is that they're still waiting for an approval and that it will be soon. They'll call me when it starts.

Lol, I won't be surprised if the Longecity group-trial starts earlier than mine