39 replies to this topic

[YoungSchizo]

Moderator's Note:

The study below demonstrates that nicotine, regardless of administration method causes Smoker's Melanosis, and it is likely that by extension, whether specifically demonstrated or not, this action will accelerate the visible signs of skin aging by a similar uneven discoloration and an increase in the number of moles which smokers and their families get. 

The long-term effect of nicotine on the oral mucosa.

 

I'm not in the mood to collect data on smoking with vapors, and it's still being studied and debated if it's healthy or not, so far study's have show it's healthy.
Vaping

The nicotine is inside a E-Juice, E-Juice contains PG (Propylene Glycol) and VG (Vegetable Glycerin).
PG vs VG

I quit smoking cigarettes a week ago, I'm a heavy smoker and wasn't planning on stopping with cigarettes at all. I'm one week on smoking with a vapor, so far didn't have one single cig or craving for it.
I don't know if it is coincidence or not but I'm feeling quite good this last week, smoking lots of cigarettes was also a way to self-medicate (I'm schizophrenic) to keep focused and to concentrate on what I'm doing. So far I noticed I can easily keep concentrate/focus on what I'm doing all day long, have a better short-term memory, clear mind and I'm more active. In the long term vaping will also increase my performance at the gym, again, don't know if it is coincidence or not, I already notice a little difference when I'm working-out, my muscle's seems be able to carry more stress. Even though I'm a heavy cigarette smoker was a heavy cigarette smoker I have an above average condition, switching to vaping will increase my condition. (a little correction, with condition, I mean stamina while running and/or working-out.)

To sum it up, if you like to smoke and don't want to stop, try vaping, it's cheap and so far it seems like a great alternative without the side-effects of tobacco.

Edited by YOLF, 25 March 2017 - 01:23 AM.

[Jeoshua]

With e-cigs, you're only getting the nicotine and not all the tars and poisons that come in the actual tobacco leaf, and none of the combustion byproducts that will give you cancer and all that. E-Cigs are amazing. Welcome to the club, there.

If you look into the data, remember to always follow the money. Whenever funded by Big Pharma, Big Tobacco, or a Nanny-State Government, the studies always come back with a conclusion stating that more research is needed, and that vaping might be harmful, but the actual data from those studies, and others not funded in such an unscientific manner, shows nothing to back up that assertion. If one were trying to gain benefits from the consumption of Nicotine, E-Cigs are a very safe method of doing so.

I switched last year, and other than a cigarette here or there (which I did not enjoy, persay), I have been smoke free and loving it. I can smell things, again! I can breathe! I can run until my legs give out, rather than having my lungs collapse in on themselves!

Edited by Jeoshua, 17 January 2014 - 03:06 PM.

[YoungSchizo]

Thanks for backing up the things I already start to notice, the tobacco industry is trying to ban e-cigs with law-suits here in the Netherlands, they have failed!!

When I still was on cigarettes I took some hits from a vapor, after that I smoked a cig, really felt sick from the cig (nausea).

[Jeoshua]

Good, because as far as I understand it, to have a drug banned in the Netherlands means that it must be shown to have severe and irreparable harm to it's users and those around them. None of those criteria would fit for vaping (although they might for smoking cigarettes).

[YoungSchizo]

Yes, exactly! Though, the pharma and tobacco industry are lobbying to get it regulated as a medicine through politics, they have failed in the Netherlands, now they are trying to lobby to get it banned through the EU regulations. The stance of the highest judge in the Netherlands doesn't see any harm in e-cigs, neither do they see it as a medicine. Right now e-cigs are started to being selled in every smoke-shop and people are starting to vape everywhere where it was not allowed anymore because it does not cause any harm to themselves or anyone around them.

I think the only way they can ban e-cigs is when they can show it has a gateway effect for non-smokers and children.

Edited by YoungSchizo, 17 January 2014 - 03:29 PM.

[Virtual Reality]

Well im interested in trying a e-cigarette. Ive tried a nicotine inhalor: nicorette. But I didnt particulary liked it.
I am looking for a e-cig which can give me a throath hit. Or otherwise can you guys recommend me a good E-cig?

[noos]

Why e- cig and not nicotine gum?

[Jeoshua]

Any e-cig with a bit of ethanol will give you a good throat hit. If you're serious, look into a basic evod, eGo rig. Don't go for the Blu and all those other cigarette sized cartomizers, they don't have quite the same effect and you have to replace the tips with proprietary cartridges. Much better to just but a battery, a tank, and get whatever flavor fluid you want.

Vaping is better than gum for many reasons, not the least of which is taste. Every time I ever had nicotine gum, it tasted horrible, like bile. The flavors only do so much to cover up the "gum" substance's taste. Vaping, on the other hand, has no inherent taste to it so the flavors can make it taste like whatever you want it to taste like.

Edited by Jeoshua, 19 January 2014 - 07:52 PM.

[YoungSchizo]

My first starterskit is a vision spinner with changeable voltage, not really happy with it. I'm gonna buy a Ego V V3 soon with changeable Watts. With Ethanol? Never heard about it, don't know if it's available here, so far I tried 5 different liquids, I think it will take some time before finding the right one, there are hundreds of flavours by now.

I don't care about the flavours, want to keep it simple, a nice tobacco taste with a good throat hit! (The popular DK Tab is really disappointing :( )

[YoungSchizo]

@alex

You can't compare e-cigs with vapors, e-cigs suck. With a good vapor you won't get disappointed. If you want to start good start with a Ego with changeable watts, so you can adjust it to the throat hit you are looking for. Also buy a Kanger Protank 3 with some of it's coils, Protank 3 is the most popular new clearomizer atm.

@noos

For me personally, I just like to smoke and like I mentioned vapors delivers a throat hit like a normal cigarette.

Edited by YoungSchizo, 19 January 2014 - 09:20 PM.

[Jeoshua]

I don't care about the flavours, want to keep it simple, a nice tobacco taste with a good throat hit! (The popular DK Tab is really disappointing :( )

You will not find a "nice tobacco taste". That is an inherent oxymoron, tobacco doesn't taste good, and especially not burning tobacco. The closest flavors you will find, out there, will leave you dissatisfied if you're looking for something that tastes "just like a cigarette", since half the flavor of you're talking about is actually the taste of poison. Much more popular are tropical fruit flavors, coffee and cream derivatives, and mint/menthol. Find a flavor you like, and if you're looking for the sensation of smoke in your throat and lungs, make sure that your flavor contains "EtOH", which is basic grain alcohol (or add a ml to your fluid from a bottle of everclear).

You can even get some rather expensive fluids like Jameson's Irish, which is just like the name suggests... I think you might love those :D

Edited by Jeoshua, 19 January 2014 - 09:29 PM.

[Virtual Reality]

Wait arent vapors and e-cigarettes the same?

edit : i've found this one, http://www.smokesmar...starterset.html . its get good reviews. imo its still a bit pricey. Any cheaper alternative?

Edited by alex921, 19 January 2014 - 09:41 PM.

[Jeoshua]

No.

You seemed to be talking about the cigarette like devices you can buy at a gas station, Blu and those kinds, which are proprietary, and quite honestly, shit.

What we were talking about was something like this, below. They would run you about $80 for a set like this, which is far less than a month's worth of cigarettes.

*USB Charger and plug not to scale

Edited by Jeoshua, 19 January 2014 - 09:44 PM.

[Virtual Reality]

Well but it still called a e-cig right? Cause I have trouble finding ''vapers'' when I look for them in dutch webshops.

But yeah 80$ dollars is still quite alot of money to invest, not knowing if I would like it yes or no. Since im only a beginner with this.
So it probably would be wiser to start of with a cheaper alternative

[Nobility]

THEY NEED to add MAOI'S to the e-cigs,

think of how good it would feel, man we need more DOPAMINE, quick. fast. YOU KNOW WHAT I DONT NEED DOPAMINE, WHY DONT I GTE

[YoungSchizo]

Well but it still called a e-cig right? Cause I have trouble finding ''vapers'' when I look for them in dutch webshops.

But yeah 80$ dollars is still quite alot of money to invest, not knowing if I would like it yes or no. Since im only a beginner with this.
So it probably would be wiser to start of with a cheaper alternative

LOL dude I'm dutch, here is the list for online shops

Enne ik denk dat je het beste af bent bij zwoofs (kwalitatief de meest populaire site en gratis verzending).

Voor advies, tips, tricks over hoe en wat dit forum

Algemene info stichting KCER

Edited by YoungSchizo, 19 January 2014 - 11:13 PM.

[YoungSchizo]

I don't care about the flavours, want to keep it simple, a nice tobacco taste with a good throat hit! (The popular DK Tab is really disappointing :( )

You will not find a "nice tobacco taste". That is an inherent oxymoron, tobacco doesn't taste good, and especially not burning tobacco. The closest flavors you will find, out there, will leave you dissatisfied if you're looking for something that tastes "just like a cigarette", since half the flavor of you're talking about is actually the taste of poison. Much more popular are tropical fruit flavors, coffee and cream derivatives, and mint/menthol. Find a flavor you like, and if you're looking for the sensation of smoke in your throat and lungs, make sure that your flavor contains "EtOH", which is basic grain alcohol (or add a ml to your fluid from a bottle of everclear).

You can even get some rather expensive fluids like Jameson's Irish, which is just like the name suggests... I think you might love those :D

Hmm.. that's too bad, though, I'm confident I will find a nice flavor eventually.

LOL, I heard about smoking alcohol from shisha's, though, does it affect you and the brain the same way as drinking? Or do you get a more smoking weed kinda buzz/high?

Thanks for the advice on EtOH!

[Sciencyst]

THEY NEED to add MAOI'S to the e-cigs,

think of how good it would feel, man we need more DOPAMINE, quick. fast. YOU KNOW WHAT I DONT NEED DOPAMINE, WHY DONT I GTE

Yes!!! Nicotine is not the same as tobacco!! Tobacco has many other psychoactive alkaloids, such as conitine (much longer half-life than nicotine) and most importantly the harmine-like MAOIs!! E-cigs will never be even close to straight tobacco, unless they start properly extracting the other alkaloids and including them in the glycerine!

Seriously I am boycotting e-cig manufacturers until they (or me?) figure this out. Maybe I'll patent a formulation and get rich.

[YoungSchizo]

THEY NEED to add MAOI'S to the e-cigs,

think of how good it would feel, man we need more DOPAMINE, quick. fast. YOU KNOW WHAT I DONT NEED DOPAMINE, WHY DONT I GTE

Yes!!! Nicotine is not the same as tobacco!! Tobacco has many other psychoactive alkaloids, such as conitine (much longer half-life than nicotine) and most importantly the harmine-like MAOIs!! E-cigs will never be even close to straight tobacco, unless they start properly extracting the other alkaloids and including them in the glycerine!

Seriously I am boycotting e-cig manufacturers until they (or me?) figure this out. Maybe I'll patent a formulation and get rich.

Explanation request.. why exactly do you need those other stuff in tobacco? (I was a heavy smoker who had no future plans on stopping with tobacco but I'm quite satisfied with only nicotine in e-liqiuds.)

[Jeoshua]

I add all kinds of noots to my e-cig fluid. Anything which is active at a 10 mg dose will work. I use a small bottle that holds about 2 days worth of fluid, add about 2 days worth of high-potency noots (Sunifram, for example), mix, and vape away. I use a bit of Noopept in mine too, from time to time, not for the effect but for the taste. It kind of gives it a bit of that old, dirty, funky feeling I admittedly kind of miss, with e-cigs. As far as effects, basically null (at around 10mg/day).

As far as EtOH in your vaping fluid, don't expect any outright effects. It is added as a solvent, acts to thin the fluid and lessen the amount of vapor produced, and gives a harsher throat hit. You could vape pure EtOH, and it might have an effect, but commercially available e-cig products won't work for that... they would be more likely to burst into flames, exposing the coils directly to pure alcohol. I don't use it all the time (although I do when using Noopept in the fluid, disolves much better).

[protoject]

Could one take an oral MAOI that was closest to beta carboline they could get and then continue smoking nicotine from E-cigs? But i dunno much about the pharmacological profile of beta carboline/harmine as compared to other MAOIs (natural, reversible, irreversible, pharmecutical, weak strong etc)

[knockout_mice]

I add all kinds of noots to my e-cig fluid. Anything which is active at a 10 mg dose will work.

If you want to put nootropics into yor e-liquid, you should check the flash point for each chemical.
I think noopept won't work, because its flash point is 284.8°C.

Other examples:

• Nicotine 95°C
• Memantine 92.3°C
• Pramiracetam 232.6°C
• Oxiracetam 252.9°C
• Coluracetam 337.3°C
• Cannabinol 212.7°C
• THC 149.3°C
• CBD 206.3 °C

Edited by mice, 20 January 2014 - 03:39 PM.

[Jeoshua]

True, but it still gives a nice taste to the vape. No real effects, tho. 10mg is cheap enough as a flavoring.

Edited by Jeoshua, 20 January 2014 - 04:14 PM.

[Darian]

The ego kits are even cheaper than the 60 or 80 dollar ones you often see.

I bought a Kamry eGo CE4 kit for 20 dollars and I buy my eliquids at 18/mL nicotine (1.8%) 30mL in different flavors ranging from Mixed Berry to Hawaiian Coffee. My eliquids run about 10 dollars each at this level and often last me up to 2 weeks. Far cheaper than cigarettes. For the cost of 2 packs, I can make it two weeks, instead of two or three days. And I tend to vape a lot.

It's far cheaper than cigarettes. I started with a 650 mah battery and now I'm up to a 900 mah battery that lasts longer for every charge. I've been using the same CE4 clearomizer for over a month now. I just dry burn it every once in a while and I even bleached the wicks. Works good as new still. The coil can sure take a lot of heating.

The point is the initial investment is definitely worth it. I never have problems with breathing or coughing, and the ingredients of my eliquid are Vegetable Glycerin USP, Propylene Glycol USP, EtOH (ethanol,) Nicotine, Natural and Artificial flavors. This sure beats 4,000 -/+ (more or less) chemicals in combusted tobacco smoke from machine-rolled American cigarettes that use fire retardant paper.

In effect I quit smoking and this keeps me from craving real cigarettes. I can get as much effect as I want and I usually vape whenever I feel like it.

In short, I highly recommend ecigarettes and nicotine vaporizers. My next step up from the eGo in time will be a good mod where I can adjust the voltage in order to get even more performance and battery life.

Edited by Darian, 21 January 2014 - 01:35 AM.

[Darian]

THEY NEED to add MAOI'S to the e-cigs,

think of how good it would feel, man we need more DOPAMINE, quick. fast. YOU KNOW WHAT I DONT NEED DOPAMINE, WHY DONT I GTE

Yes!!! Nicotine is not the same as tobacco!! Tobacco has many other psychoactive alkaloids, such as conitine (much longer half-life than nicotine) and most importantly the harmine-like MAOIs!! E-cigs will never be even close to straight tobacco, unless they start properly extracting the other alkaloids and including them in the glycerine!

Seriously I am boycotting e-cig manufacturers until they (or me?) figure this out. Maybe I'll patent a formulation and get rich.

You can get natural tobacco extract eliquids or tobacco alkaloid extract eliquids. The problem with tobacco is much of the active constituents including nicotine burn at that temperature (900 F max) and you can get harmala alkaloids from coffee too. Continine is an active metabolite of nicotine and tends to be a result of any form of nicotine consumption..

I'm not saying you're wrong or anything, because cigarettes are more psychoactive, but vaping is a lot cleaner and healthier, which is worth it for the lack of instant gratification.

You can also get eliquids and nicotine base liquids above 36mg/mL that will definitely give you a serious head rush that cigarettes cannot even compare to.

An average cigarette has about 10mg of nicotine, you absorb between 1-1.75mg of nicotine usually. Whereas with eliquids there tends to be up to 30mg+ worth of nicotine in a 1.6 mL amount and you absorb up to 60% of the nicotine instead of just 14%...

Far more potent, in my opinion. Especially if you're looking for the effect of JUST the nicotine, which is indeed very potent in combination with caffeine or a few cups of coffee.

Edited by Darian, 21 January 2014 - 01:41 AM.

[Jeoshua]

Cigarettes are a highly engineered addiction device, sold by big business interests with billions of lobbying dollars.

Vapes are a highly engineered nicotine delivery device, sold by hobbyists and small business owners.

Do the math.

Hopefully nobody ever actually tries to add more substances to e-cig fluid to make it more addictive at the expense of health. The second they do is the second I start making my own damned fluid with just the nicotine and some vanilla extract for flavor. The sensation of using an e-cig is calming, relaxing, fun, and delicious. Everything you want smoking to be, but it just isn't. I've never had to sit down because I felt like I was going to puke from a vape. I've never fallen over on my knees after my first vape-puff in the morning. I've never coughed until I saw pieces of blood and chunks of lung after a long night of vaping. I've never gone outside and nearly frozen to death just trying to get a puff of that sweet, sweet vape.

Face it, smoking is horrible for you, and it's mostly because of the crap they put into the cigarette.

Edited by Jeoshua, 21 January 2014 - 03:30 AM.

[YoungSchizo]

Amen @ Darian & Jeoshua, amen!

[YoungSchizo]

As far as EtOH in your vaping fluid, don't expect any outright effects. It is added as a solvent, acts to thin the fluid and lessen the amount of vapor produced, and gives a harsher throat hit. You could vape pure EtOH, and it might have an effect, but commercially available e-cig products won't work for that... they would be more likely to burst into flames, exposing the coils directly to pure alcohol. I don't use it all the time (although I do when using Noopept in the fluid, disolves much better).

I accidentally bought denaturised bio-ethanol 95> specially made for fireplace

Any good to use in liqiud? And/or maybe clean wicks/clearomizers?

[Darian]

As far as EtOH in your vaping fluid, don't expect any outright effects. It is added as a solvent, acts to thin the fluid and lessen the amount of vapor produced, and gives a harsher throat hit. You could vape pure EtOH, and it might have an effect, but commercially available e-cig products won't work for that... they would be more likely to burst into flames, exposing the coils directly to pure alcohol. I don't use it all the time (although I do when using Noopept in the fluid, disolves much better).

I accidentally bought denaturised bio-ethanol 95> specially made for fireplace

Any good to use in liqiud? And/or maybe clean wicks/clearomizers?

I'm not really sure. You might want to be careful with that especially if it's 5% methanol. Not really worth it for the risk of optic nerve or retina damage at any rate.

Personally I just rinse my clearomizer with water, dry burn and last time I dry burned I used bleach to clean the wick. It turned the silica wick an off-white pretty close to the original color and I rinsed it well and I've been using it fine ever since. Been using the same clearomizer for a month and the kanthal coil in this disposable sure doesn't give up easy.

[Jeoshua]

I'm not really sure. You might want to be careful with that especially if it's 5% methanol. Not really worth it for the risk of optic nerve or retina damage at any rate.

This.

Given that the stuff is not for human consumption, you really have to wonder what that other 5% really is. It's not likely Methanol, because that would be a poison and would make their product extremely dangerous. But given that it is over the limit for alcoholic beverages, it may be something designed to make the prouct unpalateable and undrinkable.