253 replies to this topic

[megatron]

OK, we're finally going to get the group buy for an alpha-7 nicotinic receptor agonist on its feet. It has been decided (in plenum) that we go with the drug EVP-6124, and not GTS-21 for the time being, due to the latter being very pricey. However, it is not unlikely that an order for GTS-21 will be placed in the future, for those who hoped we chose it. EVP-6124 is currently in a Phase 3 Cognitive clinical trial.

I've decided to take charge of this group buy, since nobody else had time or wanted to, and I think it would be a huge let down for this buy not to proceed forward. After acquiring and comparing quotes, we've decided to go with T&W based in China. It's perhaps worth mentioning, that this is NSN's supplier.

The quote we have gotten is $1700 for 500mg, and two months ETA. This is the minimum order quantity. Dosage is 0.3-2mg/day, and its half-life is 4h according to yadayada. At least according to the patent owners, it's suitable for once a day dosing: http://www.envivopha...A7_ICAD2009.pdf
To make this group buy happen we will need to split some of the workload. I do not have time to weigh in everyone's part, nor do I have the equipment for it. Therefore, we will need two voluntary reshippers; one in Europe and one in the US. An order will not be placed prior to sorting this out.

To not make this harder for the reshippers than it needs to be, an upper limit of 20 people has been set. To make sure we at least hit the MOQ of 500mg, it will be a minimum order quantity of 30mg/person. This will be a month's supply at 1mg/day. You're free to go with a higher amount, if you so desire. Since the reshippers obviously aren't going to pay the shipping fees from their own pockets, we need to deal with this. From what I can remember from the PRL 8-53 group buy, the average shipping cost was about $17, so this is what we're going to use. If this is not enough, I will pay the rest out of my own pocket, if it's too much, you will get a refund.
At 30mg, the total cost will be: $102 (drug) + $17 (shipping) = $119

The total cost might get lower depending on how much we will end up ordering. Personally, I will be getting 50mg. To collect funds I will be using Payitsquare, so you will need to set this up with your PayPal account.

If you want to partake, please state your desired amount (minimum 30mg). Let's cross our fingers for this being a drug that truly improves human cognition There may be some information I have forgotten, so please shout out if you spot it.

Some info about the drug:
http://www.ncbi.nlm....pubmed/24419307
https://www.ecnp.eu/...st/EVP 6124.pdf
http://www.envivopha...e-nicotinic.php

[mait]

Count me in for 30mg.

[p3x888]

30mg

[aarfai]

60mg

[formergenius]

In for 30mg.

[YoungSchizo]

You guys are overpaying for this one, just get Alzheimer or Schizophrenia and join the clinical trial, they won't charge anything, even pay you some money for joining.

I don't know if I should be or saying this.

[Mobc1990]

Further more risk getting scam

[bkaz]

In for 60 mg. What will is be diluted with?

Edited by bkaz, 30 January 2014 - 03:52 AM.

[YoungSchizo]

-3 for self-deprecating? I'm unlucky of having schizophrenia (and probably depended on EVP to function), you guys are unlucky for not having a sense of humor.

[formergenius]

In for 60 mg. What will is be diluted with?

Hopefully and presumably nothing?
Why do you ask? Nevermind. Ehm I guess one could just dissolve it in distilled water? It is water soluble right?
Hence no need for pre-dissolving it; people can do this at home.

Edited by formergenius, 30 January 2014 - 08:56 AM.

[bkaz]

In for 60 mg. What will it be diluted with?

Hopefully and presumably nothing?
Why do you ask? Nevermind. Ehm I guess one could just dissolve it in distilled water? It is water soluble right?
Hence no need for pre-dissolving it; people can do this at home.

Thanks, but since measuring it pure is problematic, maybe organizer can dissolve it before splitting? How long can it stay good in water?

[bkaz]

A better idea: Megatron, could you buy a scale & split the cost among participants? Shipping should be a piece of cake: put it in a plastic pouch, tape inside a greeting card, & mail it in an envelop. BTW, thanks a lot for taking initiative!

[formergenius]

In for 60 mg. What will it be diluted with?

Hopefully and presumably nothing?
Why do you ask? Nevermind. Ehm I guess one could just dissolve it in distilled water? It is water soluble right?
Hence no need for pre-dissolving it; people can do this at home.

Thanks, but since measuring it pure is problematic, maybe organizer can dissolve it before splitting? How long can it stay good in water?

I'd prefer not to buy any pre-dissolved substances from a group buy. I don't see what the problem is; you can take 30mg and dissolve it in 30ml for example, and then just take 1ml for 1mg dose.
Weighing out 30mg isn't hard.

Edited by formergenius, 30 January 2014 - 08:27 PM.

[mait]

A better idea: Megatron, could you buy a scale & split the cost among participants? Shipping should be a piece of cake: put it in a plastic pouch, tape inside a greeting card, & mail it in an envelop. BTW, thanks a lot for taking initiative!

This is very unique and worthwhile take on this problem. But I don't think cheap Chinese scales would do the trick here. I have ordered 3 different sub 50 USD chinese scale models and compared the measurement to professional mg scales at lab - China made scales seem to have measurement to measurement reliability issue. Some of the measurements seem to be very close to pro scale but some are 10-20% off. So the next option is go step higher and spend grand or more for scale that almost doubles the buy in price for this group buy.

[megatron]

In for 60 mg. What will it be diluted with?

Hopefully and presumably nothing?
Why do you ask? Nevermind. Ehm I guess one could just dissolve it in distilled water? It is water soluble right?
Hence no need for pre-dissolving it; people can do this at home.

Thanks, but since measuring it pure is problematic, maybe organizer can dissolve it before splitting? How long can it stay good in water?

I'd prefer not to buy any pre-dissolved substances from a group buy. I don't see what the problem is; you can take 30mg and dissolve it in 30ml for example, and then just take 1ml for 1mg dose.
Weighing out 30mg isn't hard.

I thought just the same. Anyway bkaz as I said in the description, I will not be weighing in and splitting the lot. I will ask for two volunteers, one in the US and one in Europe to do this. This is mostly because I don't have very much free time in the period when the drug is finished, but also because everything that has to do with shipping and Norway is pretty darn expensive. It would be easiest just to dissolve it in water yourself (you don't even need a scale).

[xks201]

I can weigh them in my school's chem lab (I am a chem student) or at home. Obviously we have extremely accurate and expensive scales. I am in the US. For the work I am expecting to not have to pay for my sample though. I do not work for free. lol

Edited by xks201, 30 January 2014 - 10:29 PM.

[Ampamet]

In for 30mg

[formergenius]

This is very unique and worthwhile take on this problem. But I don't think cheap Chinese scales would do the trick here. I have ordered 3 different sub 50 USD chinese scale models and compared the measurement to professional mg scales at lab - China made scales seem to have measurement to measurement reliability issue. Some of the measurements seem to be very close to pro scale but some are 10-20% off. So the next option is go step higher and spend grand or more for scale that almost doubles the buy in price for this group buy.

Hmm I rather lose 3mg than pay double. Don't know how meticulous others are about this?

Edited by formergenius, 31 January 2014 - 01:51 AM.

[uralsky]

Small correction of the first post @megatron:
EVPs half-life is not 4 hrs. it is the Tmax 4 hrs, that is the time of max blood concentration after ingestion.
Also, the solubility in water is low, estimated from chemspider as ~10 - 100 mcg/mL. Meaning that to dissolve in water 1mg one would need 10 - 100 mL. medchemexpress.com sells EVP and lists it as soluble in DMSO.
Should be soluble in alcohol though

Edited by uralsky, 31 January 2014 - 04:29 AM.

[bkaz]

Small correction of the first post @megatron:
EVPs half-life is not 4 hrs. it is the Tmax 4 hrs, that is the time of max blood concentration after ingestion.
Also, the solubility in water is low, estimated from chemspider as ~10 - 100 mcg/mL. Meaning that to dissolve in water 1mg one would need 10 - 100 mL. medchemexpress.com sells EVP and lists it as soluble in DMSO.
Should be soluble in alcohol though

Oops. I am guessing half-life would be >8 hrs, then?

[megatron]

Small correction of the first post @megatron:
EVPs half-life is not 4 hrs. it is the Tmax 4 hrs, that is the time of max blood concentration after ingestion.
Also, the solubility in water is low, estimated from chemspider as ~10 - 100 mcg/mL. Meaning that to dissolve in water 1mg one would need 10 - 100 mL. medchemexpress.com sells EVP and lists it as soluble in DMSO.
Should be soluble in alcohol though

Thanks uralsky. Say the solubility is 1mg/50ml, that's 1500ml for 30 mg. You shouldn't have storage issues with 1.5L, and 0.5dL wouldn't be a problem measuring out? Everyone has a small jug for measuring deciliters in their home?

[mait]

Small correction of the first post @megatron:
EVPs half-life is not 4 hrs. it is the Tmax 4 hrs, that is the time of max blood concentration after ingestion.
Also, the solubility in water is low, estimated from chemspider as ~10 - 100 mcg/mL. Meaning that to dissolve in water 1mg one would need 10 - 100 mL. medchemexpress.com sells EVP and lists it as soluble in DMSO.
Should be soluble in alcohol though

Hi,

Medchemexpress lists two options for EVP-6124: just EVP-6124 and EVP-6124 hydrochloride. Are there any remarkable differences between those two in respect to pharmacodynamics and pharmacokinetics? Which one of those two is is more stable as powder and / or in alcohol solution?

[megatron]

I have to admit I'm kind of surprised the interest of joining this group buy isn't higher. Take NSI-189 as an example. Although some people wanted it, because of its ability to potentially treat MDD, most of the people ordered it in hopes of enhancing cognition. NSI-189's purpose was not to enhance intelligence. And also many other drugs like Dihexa are getting serious attention, which I don't fully understand. Now we have a drug (EVP-6124) designed to treat Alzheimer and improve cognition (working memory), and the interest is very low. This is an agonist of the same receptor as GTS-21, which has been shown to significantly improve working memory in HUMANS! Drugs like Dihexa have never been tested on humans, and may potentially give cancer. EVP-6124 has already passed at least two clinical trials in humans (Phase I and Phase II) testing safety, and is now currently in a Phase III cognitive clinical trials for HUMANS. Even though Phase I and Phase II clinical trials were not meant to test effects on cognition, I refuse to believe that the patent owner would continue spending lots of money on this, if it didn't show any potential.

[Muad'Dib]

Hi,

Please count me in for 30mg.

[mait]

I have to admit I'm kind of surprised the interest of joining this group buy isn't higher. Take NSI-189 as an example. Although some people wanted it, because of its ability to potentially treat MDD, most of the people ordered it in hopes of enhancing cognition. NSI-189's purpose was not to enhance intelligence. And also many other drugs like Dihexa are getting serious attention, which I don't fully understand. Now we have a drug (EVP-6124) designed to treat Alzheimer and improve cognition (working memory), and the interest is very low. This is an agonist of the same receptor as GTS-21, which has been shown to significantly improve working memory in HUMANS! Drugs like Dihexa have never been tested on humans, and may potentially give cancer. EVP-6124 has already passed at least two clinical trials in humans (Phase I and Phase II) testing safety, and is now currently in a Phase III cognitive clinical trials for HUMANS. Even though Phase I and Phase II clinical trials were not meant to test effects on cognition, I refuse to believe that the patent owner would continue spending lots of money on this, if it didn't show any potential.

+1


Maybe the recent struggles with BPAP group buy have scared some members?

[bkaz]

I have to admit I'm kind of surprised the interest of joining this group buy isn't higher. Take NSI-189 as an example. Although some people wanted it, because of its ability to potentially treat MDD, most of the people ordered it in hopes of enhancing cognition. NSI-189's purpose was not to enhance intelligence. And also many other drugs like Dihexa are getting serious attention, which I don't fully understand. Now we have a drug (EVP-6124) designed to treat Alzheimer and improve cognition (working memory), and the interest is very low. This is an agonist of the same receptor as GTS-21, which has been shown to significantly improve working memory in HUMANS! Drugs like Dihexa have never been tested on humans, and may potentially give cancer. EVP-6124 has already passed at least two clinical trials in humans (Phase I and Phase II) testing safety, and is now currently in a Phase III cognitive clinical trials for HUMANS. Even though Phase I and Phase II clinical trials were not meant to test effects on cognition, I refuse to believe that the patent owner would continue spending lots of money on this, if it didn't show any potential.

Very promising indeed, but half-life might be a problem. I can't use Moda because it messes-up my sleep, may be the same here.
I wonder if it can be vaped, to hit the peak faster?
Anyway, I'll be down to 30 mg, rather than 60 mg as initially stated.

[xks201]

I'm pretty sure once you list the details of the group buy more people will join. People need to know reliable members are leading this one...

[megatron]

I'm pretty sure once you list the details of the group buy more people will join. People need to know reliable members are leading this one...

I don't quite get the meaning of your fist sentence, as I have stated the details of the group buy in the first post, if you cared to read it. Also, I have asked several reputable members if they wanted to lead this group buy, and they've either not replied to my PM's or said no. From my previous posts, it should be pretty clear that I did not want to lead this group buy, but since no reputable member wanted to do this, I stepped up. I would hate to see this just die out, as that is what would have happened otherwise. You're free to interpret this however you like. Members like Q did it! and Sunshinefrost also started somewhere.

[xks201]

Okay buddy, I did not insult your mother. I offered to help. You said you needed a us shipprt. I offered to help. Until potential buyers know who all is shipping the product they may be cautious. That's all I meant by that. Lol

[Ashenhurst]

Please put me down for 30mg