97 replies to this topic

[8bitmore]

So you all have higher powered brains at the expense of constant extreme flatulence?

haha Unfortunately, I do. I'm not gonna lie...it's pretty bad. Most of the people over at freetheanimal.com have indicated that it subsides a bit over time and that you can eliminate it by taking 3 days off. Probably gonna try that soon.

Speaking of free the animal...here are Tim Steele's American Gut Project results after 10 months on resistant starch. Very interesting read. He has 11x the average Bifidobacteria fecal count. http://freetheanimal...comparison.html

Strangely enough I have just a little bit flatulence. Almost to zero. While I'm at 6-8 tablespoons a day. Does flatulence indicate something?

Funnily enough it probably does - the type of culture (Bifidobacteria) that produces butyrate apparently produces lactic acids instead of gas so most likely its good thing that you're not going into over-fart mode: "because Bifidobacteria produces lactic acid instead of gas (like E. coli), infants and people in general with more Bifidobacteria than other bacteria will have less gas and digestive problems. There is also a significant difference in the incidence of antibiotic-associated diarrhea in the children receiving probiotic-supplemented (inriched with Bifidobacterium) formula (16%) than nonsupplemented formula (31%)." [from https://microbewiki....ifidobacterium]

[zorba990]

So you all have higher powered brains at the expense of constant extreme flatulence?

haha Unfortunately, I do. I'm not gonna lie...it's pretty bad. Most of the people over at freetheanimal.com have indicated that it subsides a bit over time and that you can eliminate it by taking 3 days off. Probably gonna try that soon.

Speaking of free the animal...here are Tim Steele's American Gut Project results after 10 months on resistant starch. Very interesting read. He has 11x the average Bifidobacteria fecal count. http://freetheanimal...comparison.html

Strangely enough I have just a little bit flatulence. Almost to zero. While I'm at 6-8 tablespoons a day. Does flatulence indicate something?

Funnily enough it probably does - the type of culture (Bifidobacteria) that produces butyrate apparently produces lactic acids instead of gas so most likely its good thing that you're not going into over-fart mode: "because Bifidobacteria produces lactic acid instead of gas (like E. coli), infants and people in general with more Bifidobacteria than other bacteria will have less gas and digestive problems. There is also a significant difference in the incidence of antibiotic-associated diarrhea in the children receiving probiotic-supplemented (inriched with Bifidobacterium) formula (16%) than nonsupplemented formula (31%)." [from https://microbewiki....ifidobacterium]

For some reason Bifidus only supplements are hard to find and very expensive:
http://www.custompro...cs-b-lactis.htm

Any other sources?

[xks201]

Yeah IM Pretty Sure Constant Flatulence Would Be Worse Than Slight Enhancement Of Cognition But That's Just Me. Ya take 3 days off then start again and start farting again lol

[8bitmore]

So you all have higher powered brains at the expense of constant extreme flatulence?

haha Unfortunately, I do. I'm not gonna lie...it's pretty bad. Most of the people over at freetheanimal.com have indicated that it subsides a bit over time and that you can eliminate it by taking 3 days off. Probably gonna try that soon.

Speaking of free the animal...here are Tim Steele's American Gut Project results after 10 months on resistant starch. Very interesting read. He has 11x the average Bifidobacteria fecal count. http://freetheanimal...comparison.html

Strangely enough I have just a little bit flatulence. Almost to zero. While I'm at 6-8 tablespoons a day. Does flatulence indicate something?

Funnily enough it probably does - the type of culture (Bifidobacteria) that produces butyrate apparently produces lactic acids instead of gas so most likely its good thing that you're not going into over-fart mode: "because Bifidobacteria produces lactic acid instead of gas (like E. coli), infants and people in general with more Bifidobacteria than other bacteria will have less gas and digestive problems. There is also a significant difference in the incidence of antibiotic-associated diarrhea in the children receiving probiotic-supplemented (inriched with Bifidobacterium) formula (16%) than nonsupplemented formula (31%)." [from https://microbewiki....ifidobacterium]

For some reason Bifidus only supplements are hard to find and very expensive:
http://www.custompro...cs-b-lactis.htm

Any other sources?

I personally don't think one is likely to need supplementing the bifidobacterium culture since its so relatively abundant for everybody - it is more a question of getting it to be strong enough to produce sufficient amounts of butyrate: which is what eating potato starch is all about.

[zorba990]

So you all have higher powered brains at the expense of constant extreme flatulence?

haha Unfortunately, I do. I'm not gonna lie...it's pretty bad. Most of the people over at freetheanimal.com have indicated that it subsides a bit over time and that you can eliminate it by taking 3 days off. Probably gonna try that soon.

Speaking of free the animal...here are Tim Steele's American Gut Project results after 10 months on resistant starch. Very interesting read. He has 11x the average Bifidobacteria fecal count. http://freetheanimal...comparison.html

Strangely enough I have just a little bit flatulence. Almost to zero. While I'm at 6-8 tablespoons a day. Does flatulence indicate something?

Funnily enough it probably does - the type of culture (Bifidobacteria) that produces butyrate apparently produces lactic acids instead of gas so most likely its good thing that you're not going into over-fart mode: "because Bifidobacteria produces lactic acid instead of gas (like E. coli), infants and people in general with more Bifidobacteria than other bacteria will have less gas and digestive problems. There is also a significant difference in the incidence of antibiotic-associated diarrhea in the children receiving probiotic-supplemented (inriched with Bifidobacterium) formula (16%) than nonsupplemented formula (31%)." [from https://microbewiki....ifidobacterium]

For some reason Bifidus only supplements are hard to find and very expensive:
http://www.custompro...cs-b-lactis.htm

Any other sources?

I personally don't think one is likely to need supplementing the bifidobacterium culture since its so relatively abundant for everybody - it is more a question of getting it to be strong enough to produce sufficient amounts of butyrate: which is what eating potato starch is all about.

Found a bifidus supplement, Bifidyn for a reasonable price.
1/4 teaspoon bifidyn + 3 T Unmodified Potato Starch = Massive amounts of stinky gas. So, um, yeah, I'm gonna have to disagree with the above Bifidus assertion.
Just my experience....

I'm not so sure no / low gas is healthy anyway. Probably another western invention like showering twice a day or antibacterial soap.

[blood]

Has there been a comparison between resistant starch such as potato starch, and other well-researched prebiotics such as inulin or FOS? Why is resistant starch suddenly so popular? Are people finding it more useful than other prebiotics (inulin/ FOS/ etc)?

Edited by blood, 16 February 2014 - 10:22 PM.

[sdxl]

Found a bifidus supplement, Bifidyn for a reasonable price.
1/4 teaspoon bifidyn + 3 T Unmodified Potato Starch = Massive amounts of stinky gas. So, um, yeah, I'm gonna have to disagree with the above Bifidus assertion.
Just my experience....

I'm not so sure no / low gas is healthy anyway. Probably another western invention like showering twice a day or antibacterial soap.

As if you don't have any other bacteria in your gut.... It's not like you have conducted an in vitro experiment.

[lostfalco]

Found a bifidus supplement, Bifidyn for a reasonable price.
1/4 teaspoon bifidyn + 3 T Unmodified Potato Starch = Massive amounts of stinky gas. So, um, yeah, I'm gonna have to disagree with the above Bifidus assertion.
Just my experience....

I'm not so sure no / low gas is healthy anyway. Probably another western invention like showering twice a day or antibacterial soap.

I'm still trying to sort out my thoughts on whether the gas is a good or bad thing as well. Molecular hydrogen is produced by gut bacteria and from the handful of studies I've read it looks pretty amazing. I'm still learning though, so nothing firm here yet. =)

Free Full Text: http://www.ncbi.nlm....les/PMC3680337/

Med Gas Res. 2013 Jun 6;3(1):11. doi: 10.1186/2045-9912-3-11.

Molecular hydrogen: an overview of its neurobiological effects and therapeutic potential for bipolar disorder and schizophrenia.

Ghanizadeh A, Berk M.

Author information

Abstract
Hydrogen gas is a bioactive molecule that has a diversity of effects, including anti-apoptotic, anti-inflammatory and anti-oxidative properties; these overlap with the process of neuroprogression in major psychiatric disorders. Specifically, both bipolar disorder and schizophrenia are associated with increased oxidative and inflammatory stress. Moreover, lithium which is commonly administered for treating bipolar disorder has effects on oxidative stress and apoptotic pathways, as do valproate and some atypical antipsychotics for treating schizophrenia. Molecular hydrogen has been studied pre-clinically in animal models for the treatment of some medical conditions including hypoxia and neurodegenerative disorders, and there are intriguing clinical findings in neurological disorders including Parkinson's disease. Therefore, it is hypothesized that administration of hydrogen molecule may have potential as a novel therapy for bipolar disorder, schizophrenia, and other concurrent disorders characterized by oxidative, inflammatory and apoptotic dysregulation.

Sorry, this paragraph was so interesting that I just couldn't help but quote the whole thing.

"Molecular hydrogen is an odourless and tasteless gas that has the ability to rapidly diffuse through lipid membranes and enter the cell, where it easily penetrates organelles such as mitochondria as well as the nucleus. It is inert at room temperature and in the absence of catalysts. It additionally easily crosses the blood brain barrier, which facilitates access to the target organs and subcellular components. Its adverse event profile is reportedly benign [2,63]. Physiologically, hydrogen is produced by intestinal microbiota from fermentation of complex carbohydrates. Arterial blood contains higher levels of hydrogen that tissue, suggesting some uptake and utilization of hydrogen in tissues. Hydrogen reacts with free hyrodoxyl radicals but does not appear to react to other reactive oxygen species. This is a theoretical advantage, as low levels of these radicals have physiologically relevant signaling effects. It protects against secondary oxidative damage to the brain in a variety of models by reacting with hydroxyl radicals [64]. Hydrogen is potentially available as a medical gas, hydrogen enriched water, taking a hydrogen bath, injecting hydrogen saline, hydrogen saline eye drops, and augmenting bacterial production of intestinal hydrogen. It penetrates glass but not aluminum containers."

Edited by lostfalco, 16 February 2014 - 10:32 PM.

[spb37]

Does anyone know if a stool test can confirm that whatever regimen you have used has worked, i.e. increased the proportion of the desired Lactobacillus brevis and Bifidobacterium dentium. FWIW besides the cocoa in smoothies mentioned above I drink teas high in inulin fiber including dandelion root and bradock root. Probably cheaper than ordering a supplement.

[chemicalambrosia]

Saw this very interesting study on ergo-log today -> a probiotic (a strain of lactobacillus reuteri) maintains youthful/healthy testosterone levels in elderly mice:

This strain of Lactobacillus reuteri will be featured in Biogaia's Gastrus, along with DSM 17938.

very nice! more from the research, their conclusion:

"Probiotic organisms may offer practical options for management of disorders frequently associated with normal aging", the researchers conclude. "Reduced circulating testosterone levels have been implicated in many adverse effects including reduced spermatogenesis, libido and sexual function, increased body fat, decreased muscle and bone mass, low energy levels, fatigue, poor physical performance, depressed mood, and impaired cognitive dysfunction. Ultimately, dietary Lactobacillus reuteri or other probiotic supplementation may provide an alternative natural approach to prevention of male hypogonadism, absent the controversy and side-effect risks of testosterone replacement therapy.

Lactobacillus reuteri ATCC 6475 seems very legit!

Unfortunately I don't think that particular strain is available on the market yet. There appear to be different strains of Lactobacillus reuteri, but I don't think there is enough research to know how differing the effects will be: http://www.ncbi.nlm....les/PMC2993169/ I think the company that has the patent is going to launch a product, but it will probably be expensive: http://www.biogaia.com/future-launches Hopefully a US supplement maker will produce a product with some of that strain under license for much cheaper.

[zorba990]

Found a bifidus supplement, Bifidyn for a reasonable price.
1/4 teaspoon bifidyn + 3 T Unmodified Potato Starch = Massive amounts of stinky gas. So, um, yeah, I'm gonna have to disagree with the above Bifidus assertion.
Just my experience....

I'm not so sure no / low gas is healthy anyway. Probably another western invention like showering twice a day or antibacterial soap.

As if you don't have any other bacteria in your gut.... It's not like you have conducted an in vitro experiment.

Been taking potato starch for about two months now. Mostly by itself but soemtimes with kefir or yogurt. Taking it with the bifidyn produced more gas for me than any other time by quite a bit. I have no idea why but I'm not going to repeat the experiment any time soon wihtout more evidence that the stinky gas will resolve, I've no desire to irritate my gut.

[blood]

Been taking potato starch for about two months now. Mostly by itself but soemtimes with kefir or yogurt...

I'd be curious to hear of any health benefits you have noticed since taking the potato starch (assuming there have been noticeable benefits)?

[cylack]

Read recently how taking Glucosamine can help protect against lectins, which cause leaky gut, in food (Source: http://www.greenmedi...lammatory-wheat):

One way to gauge just how pervasive the adverse effects of these foods are among Western populations is the popularity of the dietary supplement glucosamine. In the USA, a quarter billion dollars’ worth of glucosamine is sold annually.The main source of glucosamine on the market is from the N-Acetylglucosamine rich chitin exoskelotons of crustaceans, like shrimp and crab. Glucosamine is used for reducing pain and inflammation. We do not have a dietary deficiency of the pulverized shells of dead sea critters, just as our use of NSAIDs is not caused by a deficiency of these synthetic chemicals in our diet. When we consume glucosamine supplements, the chitin-binding lectins in our foods, instead of binding to our tissues, bind to the pulverized chitin in the glucosamine supplements, sparing us from their full impact. Many millions of Americans who have greatly reduced their pain and suffering by ingesting glucosamine and NSAIDs may be better served by removing chitin-binding lectin containing foods (the underlying cause of their malaise) from their diets. This would result in even greater relief from pain and inflammation along with far less dependency on palliative supplements and medicines alike.

[zorba990]

Been taking potato starch for about two months now. Mostly by itself but soemtimes with kefir or yogurt...

I'd be curious to hear of any health benefits you have noticed since taking the potato starch (assuming there have been noticeable benefits)?

I've noticed more relaxed muscles and I suspect I am absorbing more minerals. Also somewhat deeper sleep although that's not really an issue for me so a bit hard to tell. My interest is mainly colon cancer prevention.

[hephaestus]

Most neurotransmitters can't cross the blood brain barrier so it seems unlikely that gut bacteria producing DA and NE would have any affect on cognition.

As another data point, I haven't experienced significant gas even when consuming 30g of potato starch mixed with water on an empty stomach.

Edited by hephaestus, 23 February 2014 - 08:14 PM.

[Luxflux]

Thanks for another great resource LostFalco. I have avidly lurked your threads for some time now sir(and I've finally been convinced to use LLLT, but that's for another thread).

Wanted to add a little to the knowledge base/n = 1.

Resistant starch(via bobs red mill) seems to have cured chronic upper back pain/inflammation for me. While my spine is still a bit misaligned(long story, but I have to get it readjusted pretty much forever), the chronic inflammation(which I suspect is nerve inflammation) has completely disappeared. The nagging pain is gone, which is a huge result for me, despite taking it purely for its cognition boosting properties. My muscles were chronically tight in the area, and I see that someone mentioned more relaxed muscles, so +1 to that from me as well. This is after only a weeks use of two tablespoons(roughly) per day.

I do have a couple questions for those currently experimenting with RS:

Did it cause GI symptoms like constipation/diarrhea? It has for me intermittently, but since its doing so much good for my back I'm assuming it's because of my own poor gut health.

Does it seem to dehydrate you? I have noticed I require a lot more water lately.

I can also add +1 to it causing fatigue. However, the fatigue subsided for me after about 4 days of use.

I am monitoring my cognitive progress via cambridge brain sciences. If I see any movement I will post the findings.

[Luxflux]

I was thinking about the connection between ubiquinol and periodontal disease, so I thought maybe it might have some effects on the microbiome in the body at large. Found the following:

"The results have shown that oral administration of CoQ₁₀ increases the concentration of CoQ10 in the diseased gingiva and effectively suppresses advanced periodontal inflammation[17,27,28] and periodontal microorganisms. Clinical study with interpocket application has shown CoQ₁₀ is an effective adjunctive in the treatment of chronic periodontitis and also found to enhance the resistance of the periodontal tissues to periodontopathic bacteria (unpublished data)."

http://www.ncbi.nlm....les/PMC2991687/

Maybe Coq10 also has another more direct mechanism by which it effects the bacterial balance in the body? Someone else with better researching skills can probably find more.

[hephaestus]

The wiki page says it delivers some of the benefits of soluble fiber and some of the benefits of insoluble fiber, so I would expect it to help with GI issues. I haven't had any problems personally.

[Luxflux]

After having only added potato starch to my stack, I can say with relative certainty that it makes me more sensitive to stimulants. I use an e-cig and drink a fair amount of coffee, and I can't consume as much lately b/c I become overstimulated. I am shocked at the amount of changes this is causing, having tried so many noots in the past. Very exciting.

[Strangelove]

Quite interesting thread, anyone read the book I mentioned before?

http://www.amazon.co...a/dp/0954852028

I believe its for this exact subject that we discuss here, I have not read it yet, but from reviews, the author has put a lot of research together to explain how gut microbiome influences mental health. Nevertheless I believe if you have a good grounding in a subject and make your own research on line, you can find better practical solutions from a slightly dated book. Hopefully the addition of resistant starch, in an already good diet could make a difference, as it seems so, from the experiences you can find in other sites.

[Godof Smallthings]

What about modified potato starch, is there simply no point in taking that, or is it just less useful? I realize chemicals are used during the production, how harmful are they and how exactly do they counteract the benefits seen with unmodified starch?

The reason I am asking is because I can not seem to find unmodified potato starch here, so I would need to order from overseas.

[Neal Cullum]

This is not specific for brain enhancement, and I cannot really say if it works for increasing good gut bacteria, but what I am doing for the last week is add a full tablespoon of raw honey in a liter of milk, add 3 capsules of this multistrain supplement http://www.amazon.co...foods probiotic

and let it ferment for a couple of days in room temperature, for couple days the taste is ok, but in the third can get very sour, I do not really have a clue what might happening to the mixture with the probiotics from the supplement and other naturaly occuring microbes, any ideas when its best to drink the cultured milk? I should read a book for fermenting foods to get a better grasp of it, but I do not have time, any ideas? If it works, the way I hope so, can be healthy and cost effective.

If you're fermenting milk then look into making kefir. Kefir has TONS of enzymes and good bacteria for your body. Making kefir out of raw milk is dubbed the best way but i haven't got studies to say so, just what i've heard from various sources.

[Jeoshua]

The reason that most probiotic supplements mention their "enteric coating" is that bacteria will be killed, mostly, in the gut. As such, regular yogurt, fortified yogurt like Activia, keifer, kombucha, beer, or any other "cultured" food will be little more than feed-stock for whatever bacteria are already living in your gut, sorry to say. But, if the bacteria is thriving, at least you can be sure that it is good food for whatever biotics you're intending on supplementing (ie. Yogurt is going to be good feedstock for Lactobacilli already in your gut, but likely won't introduce new bacteria strains).

[hephaestus]

The probiotic I've been taking says to take it on an empty stomach with 8 oz of water, presumably to get it into your intestines as quickly as possible.

[uekte]

I'm surprised this isn't a more popular topic of discussion around here, i've been adding Potato Starch (4tbsp), Prebotics (Inulin+FOS 1tbsp), and Homemade Kefir (250ml) to my morning smoothie and i'm in no doubt that it's enhanced my mental and physical well being to a far greater extent than anything else i've tried (if you take sleep, exercise, and diet as a given).

 

 

 

[uekte]

Recent podcast where Dave Asprey, Richard Nikoley (Free The Animal), and Tim Steele discuss Resistant Starch, Fecal Transplants, Ketosis, Probiotics, and raising BDNF, amongst other things...

 

http://www.bulletpro...steele-podcast/

 

 

[HappyShoe]

Unmodified Potato Starch Bob's Red Mill (Amazon 6 pack)

Best Probiotics Theralac and Truflora (non-enteric controlled delivery to protect them from your stomach acid, which normally destroys 98%+) Unfortunately very expensive. 50 dollars each. Worth it though.

After about 3 weeks the flatulence isn't as bad.
GOS already cited by someone else. To recap Bimuno.com

I'm pleasantly surprised to see this on here. Found out about this stuff maybe 2-3 months ago and I've been really excited about it. They say the Human Microbiome project much like the Human Genome Project(was), is the next big step in medical science.

One thing though that I'm dying to know, does anyone know what compounds in cocoa specifically are responsible for the health benefits. I would love to just eat raw cocoa daily, but I can't since I have Hemochromatosis and it has very high iron content, it will kill my liver if I ate it. Anyone know of a product I could take to bypass this aspect, or a form of cocoa powder that doesn't have iron in it? I've tried to research this before but it's very difficult to find info on this specific issue(iron-free cocoa).

[NeuroGeneration]

@HappyShoe - not sure about iron-free cocoa (a quick search yielded no relevant results), but cocoa contains epicatechin and catechin. Here's one of many studies available on google scholar, which go into additional detail about cocoa's antioxidants. I like this one because it covers cocoa's benefits against amyloid plaques, which are associated as a culprit in alzheimer's: http://www.aseanfood...es/11019009.pdf

 

If you want to see more, search "epicatechin catechin cocoa" in google scholar.

 

And yes, Bimuno's awesome, portable and slightly sweet to the tongue.

[chemicalambrosia]

I'm surprised this isn't a more popular topic of discussion around here, i've been adding Potato Starch (4tbsp), Prebotics (Inulin+FOS 1tbsp), and Homemade Kefir (250ml) to my morning smoothie and i'm in no doubt that it's enhanced my mental and physical well being to a far greater extent than anything else i've tried (if you take sleep, exercise, and diet as a given).

 

 

 

 

How is your level of flatulence doing? I bought some potato starch, but I'm practically afraid to even try it because of the gas issue...

[scitris]

Flatulence is a sign of adjusting. If you begin to take prebiotics/RS you have to start low and working your way up. 

Dietary fiber is at the beginning  a little harsh on your gut, another reason to start slow.

 

The most prebiotic products are shit out there, because the most caps are not well designed. Most of them get open already in the stomach

and the microbes die all there. Other caps open too late, after the small intestine. 

And in many products the bacteria are already dead when you get the product.

 

Many bacteria in probiotic foods like yoghurt and kefir survive the stomach. They are MANY, so its a question of statistics and they are well coated in their own "environment" like milk with his altered pH, what lessens a bit the burden on the bacteria.  I would think that 20% or less survives the stomach.

But you have to think about of all the enzyms, minerals and vitamins too in such a "cocktail" like kefir. Thats one reason you wanna them in you, because

they produce such a tremendous amount of bioactive molecules for us. So its never a bad idea to get some real joghurt or kefir. 

Lactose is substrate for the bacteria so real yoghurt and kefir are very low in it. Problems with cow milk protein? then switch to goat's milk.

Affected by L-Casein? Gout's milk is lower in that protein than cow milk. But maybe there are better milk options out there.

 

i would suggest kombucha, kefir and maybe sauerkraut or better natto.

Easy, delicious, self-done, good for overall health (mental & physical).

 

Some years ago i made intense research on the gut, his microbiome  and the cognitive and physical benefits.

2 Years ago i bought an ebook, because the book wasnt available here. So the only one where real studies and analysis about kombucha are to find.

The few scientific papers and sites out there are only citing from that book. Things like how different kinds of sugars like pentoses and hexoses influences the

composition of kombucha. Which bacteria and yeasts are forming kombucha? Are there differences from one kombucha to another? and so on.

BUT fuck where is this book now? ^^