55 replies to this topic

[Jbac]

Piracetam is rumored to accelerate the rate of clearance of psychotropic drugs.

Plenty of people are non-responders to piracetam and if you have kidney problems it could hurt you.

Edited by Jbac, 06 February 2014 - 01:28 AM.

[socialpiranha]

I actually took iboga to get off of suboxone and i can confirm that it does produce exactly the opposite feeling of suboxone. suboxone induces a warmth comfort and familiarity with your surroundings whereas iboga produces a profound feeling of cold distance and discomfort. Like i've said many times, If you are ok with being on a drug for the rest of your life suboxone really is the best option out there for dissociation and depression. Unfortunately the mu agonism causes cognitive problems and intestinal motility issues which is why i'm holding out hope for selective kappa antagonists.

[Luxflux]

These kinds of symptoms sound very similar to NMDA antagonism as stated above. D-serine, sarcosine, pregenenolone, NAC, R-LA, are all good choices to try. It really sounds like textbook NMDA problem to me. Give those a shot, it should help. I'd try all of them at once to kick start your NMDA system. You'll probably either feel a lot better or nothing at all within a relatively short time. I noticed the effects of NMDA agonists on dissociative symptoms within about 10 minutes of taking them. Good luck.

[Missjess]

Hi Luxflux...how much do I take of each if them tho ? I think I rushed into buying stuff right away without waiting for ppl to respond to my forum! Plz give me more details and I will look into purchasing them!

Socialpiranha I may just wait to get jdtic ...I'm going to see my psychiatrist today and I'm going to ask him about kappa antagonist drugs...what about naltrexone or naleoxone ??

[Missjess]

I also might mention that I think I may have too much glutamate because I have neuro degeneration symptoms aswel

[Jbac]

Seems like Suboxone (combination of buprenorphine and naloxone) is the only medically available kappa opioid antagonist, prescribed for opioid dependence concomitant with pain.

Naloxone and naltrexone are weak antagonists and will cause debilitating symptoms in doses high enough to help you.

Assuming you're set on trying kappa opioid antagonists, you'll probably have better odds of getting suboxone if you claim to have an opioid addiction (e.g. kratom) and head/neck pain, instead of attempting a discussion about kappa opioid receptors. It's addictive so waiting for jdtic might be a better idea.

[Missjess]

My appointment with my psychiatrist is in 1 hour, I'm gonna be honest with him and tell him all about iboga etc he wud give me a prescription I think for suboxone...I'm a little scared to try jdtic mainly coz it's only a research chemical but at this point I'm getting pretty desperate I need to feel at least a little bit better and less dissociated !!

[Luxflux]

This is what I take daily, though I'm not sure how much you may need to take:
preg - 50mg
NAC - 2400 mg(this is a high dose by most standards, common is 600-1200 mg I think)
r-la - 100 mg

I can attest to their NMDA activity, since I had some leftover cognitive symptoms from psychosis some years before(though I was never diagnosed with a psychotic disorder). I have not felt dissociation per se, but the first times I ingested pregnenolone, sarcosine, and NAC together I can still remember just feeling a strong sense of "I am here, and the world is there, and things all have their place and fit together", which was a very pleasant feeling. It's this personal experience, along with a basic understanding of iboga's mechanism of action, which leads me to believe these might be helpful for you.

[protoject]

Hi protoject,

I actually just purchased these products:
NAC
Glycine
Piracetam

I found that info from this thread: http://www.longecity...019#entry641019 (just look at bottom of post)

Would u suggest those products all will they not be good for me? I think I shud have researched into this further..

Glycine should be good. Don't dose too high. Keep it modest.

The rest is harmless, you know, just keep your doses regular and modest.

Personally I find sarcosine superior to glycine somehow. Less side effects and more effectiveness, and also more subtle.


Also, anecdote for you: I occasionally take STRONG nmda antagonists, and use D-serine and Sarcosine to buffer out the dissociative effects to give a smoother experience. So while I can't comment on their use for your dissociative symptoms, which BTW I've also experienced without being on any supplement, but I can say that based on the fact that they buffered out those dissociative symptoms on the strong antagonist , that maybe there's some value there.

They also seem to be the superior options to glycine in any studies with schizophrenics. Which I know again is not your case but it appears both are superior and more convenient. Also works well in conjunction IMO

[protoject]

I actually took iboga to get off of suboxone and i can confirm that it does produce exactly the opposite feeling of suboxone. suboxone induces a warmth comfort and familiarity with your surroundings whereas iboga produces a profound feeling of cold distance and discomfort. Like i've said many times, If you are ok with being on a drug for the rest of your life suboxone really is the best option out there for dissociation and depression. Unfortunately the mu agonism causes cognitive problems and intestinal motility issues which is why i'm holding out hope for selective kappa antagonists.

Just outta curiosity ... if you take a lower than average dose, is it possible to reap some modest benefit while curtailing side effects? also is suboxone only IV or can people take it orally>?

[celebes]

I actually took iboga to get off of suboxone and i can confirm that it does produce exactly the opposite feeling of suboxone. suboxone induces a warmth comfort and familiarity with your surroundings whereas iboga produces a profound feeling of cold distance and discomfort. Like i've said many times, If you are ok with being on a drug for the rest of your life suboxone really is the best option out there for dissociation and depression. Unfortunately the mu agonism causes cognitive problems and intestinal motility issues which is why i'm holding out hope for selective kappa antagonists.

Just outta curiosity ... if you take a lower than average dose, is it possible to reap some modest benefit while curtailing side effects? also is suboxone only IV or can people take it orally>?

No, buprenorphine has a higher affinity for mu receptors and it takes 2-4 mg to saturate those, only above that do you begin to get kappa antagonism. Even 200mcg is not tolerable to the opiate naive so you are talking dependence, unless it's taken with a mu-antagonist. Related discussions in the JDTic thread.

[celebes]

Personally I find sarcosine superior to glycine somehow. Less side effects and more effectiveness, and also more subtle.

They also seem to be the superior options to glycine in any studies with schizophrenics. Which I know again is not your case but it appears both are superior and more convenient. Also works well in conjunction IMO

Do you use them regularly and if so have you developed any tolerance?

Does anyone know if either one of sarcosine or D-serine are less liable to that?

Edited by celebes, 08 February 2014 - 12:51 AM.

[Luxflux]

Sarcosine has maintained its effect for me after months of daily use. While obviously one notices less cognitive effects over time since you become accustomed the them as the "new norm", I can verify that if I cease taking the sarco my cambridge brain scores drop to the levels they were before I started sarcosine within a few days(Which distinguishes it from a withdrawal symptom, which, incidentally, there have been none on sarcosine for me when I do stop). Sarcosine, IMO, is superior because of the way it acts on the glycine binding site, which protects from both tolerance and exictotoxicity via NMDA receptors.

[protoject]

Do you use them regularly and if so have you developed any tolerance?

Does anyone know if either one of sarcosine or D-serine are less liable to that?

When I did use them regularly I found glycine created a tolerance. But when I was taking glycine I used to take it with taurine so that could be a confounding factor. Plus I was taking grams upon grams. So I'm sure a normal dose would be alright. Whatever that is.

Took sarcosine and d serine for months didn't notice any tolerance

[Missjess]

Hey guys I have another question, everytime I drink alcohol I feel much much worse. More spacey and floaty and my mood drops immensely. I was curious so I looked up to see what alcohol does to the brain and turns out it's an Nmda antagonist aswell so now I can't even drink alcohol unless I wana make my situation worse :(

[Missjess]

It's like I can't think at all !! I don't feel like speaking I could just stare for hours! This feels terrible

[BigPapaChakra]

I know how you feel Missjess, I have severe HPPD from ingestion of a bunch of illicit compounds for a period of about a year and a half. All was good and well, no problems from any of the substances and I often took breaks, being sober for weeks, did lots of research on how to protect myself from the potential harms, etc. but one weekend in particular screwed me up. Not only did I use too many substances one night, but I was sleep deprived and went to a concert the following night and happened to be laced with a bunch of crap and stupid ol' me decided to continue using substances the next two days. This is when the problems started occurring.

The dissociation you speak of - I live that day and night, almost 24/7. If you look up HPPD I have practically every symptom there is maybe outside of depression (although I occasionally have a low-mood, I'm very optimistic and overall am not sad or anything). I've had HPPD, in particular dissociated symptoms, for just under 2 years now (13 days from now will be the date of the concert - it was that messed up I still remember the date and time, lol). I think extreme NMDA-antagonism is what caused me to have these everlasting negative symptoms. As you can see, others have stated your problems sound like NMDA-antagonism, and I believe this to be true. You and the others who have commented have some sound ideas.

I've been running a blinded trial (with the help of my mom, haha) on pregnenolone, and I think I'll use it on occasion after my experiment despite my young age. It feels very nice - if pregnenolone is what I ingested the other day I did duel n-back before and after ingestion and my scores went up after ingestion and my average n-back went from 2.45 to 2.55 and I reached 4-back. I also had increased resilience to stress and I almost felt high without any side-effects. This was really interesting to me because if I were to get high on anything in my current state I'd honestly feel like I was in a state of minor psychosis or something. You can get a lot of glycine from bones/cartilage/ligaments/etc. - eat some bone broth and recipes using bones and joints and maybe supplement collage - that's what I'm gonna start doing, it's extremely nutritious anyhow. Some of the studies LostFalco has posted in the new gut microbiome thread show that different fibers (GOS and FOS, I believe) actually increase the amount of NMDAr's in the brain, as well as BDNF and NGF. Without delving into it, I'd recommend the TULIP red/infrared light+supplement stack.

[Missjess]

Sorry to hear about ur struggles BigPapaChakra

So u experience the same dissociation as me? It's rlly fuking horrible isn't it! I can't get high in anything now and I cannot touch alcohol anymore either...my problems just got a whole lot worse after having a few glasses of alcohol :( his has lead me to believe that my NMDA receptors are fucked ....I'm hanging out and waiting for all the supplements I ordered. I have placed an order for glycine, sarcosine, piracetam, NAC and that hormone u mentioned pregnenolone. I am pretty interested in starting off with the NAC and either glycine or sarcosine to see what they will do for me I hope it helps me! It's so hard going around and even driving my car when I have no self like literally I'll be driving and my head feels like it's not even there and my arms r rlly detached. I am also waiting on my friend to come over from Canada he is bringing with him jdtic and I am rlly interested in trying that too.

[abcmanomandriepunt1]

i thought i might respond to this thread cause i also suffer from dissocative symptoms and trip like experiences. I've had a psychotic depression/burn out with some substance abuse and now 1.5 year later i'm left with depersonalization/derealization and a whole lot of visual hallicunations like floaters/tracers/afterimages and breathing objects. i've been dx'ed after psychotic depression with schizophrenia, but honestly : they have no idea since i don't suffer dellusions anymore, and when i had them i wasn't believing in them (i never lost it). i've been giving citalopram 40mg and zyprexa 2.5 and they help a bit.

with supplements (side note : i'm very sensitive to practically every neurotransmitter altering substance, so i have to watch out): NAC 2.4g helped me tremendously with cognition, same goes for Lion's mane (i take about 5gram a day. i would recommend buying bulk powder since i didn't notice anything from extracts). they both are very effective in my opinion, and i didn't expect that from lion's mane since i thought it would be a long term benefit. I directly noticed feeling more grounded and in the moment from the lion's mane (a bit like my mdma experience while i was dp'ed). i do notice that i'm a tad bit too alert for movements in my vision from it, but the overal benefits are great and i hope the downsides aren't as bad as that from mdma usage...

i ordered sarcosine a couple of weeks ago but after reading missjess report on the hppd forum i decided to hold off that. i do read the hppd forum, cause i feel like i can relate more to hppd'ers then to most of the people on schizophrenia sites.

further i take ashwagandha for stress and calcium channel blocking properties. and some others for cognitive functioning : Q10, pqq, ground turmeric, 1g alcar, krill oil, rosemary, kelp vit c and coconut oil.
i eat a ketogenic diet since antiepileptics have been shown to work for dp/dr.

overal i've made a lot of improvement and i think i now have something to lose again so now i'm watching my supplement intake and especially the psychoactive ones, cause that stuff can be pretty dangerous if you ask me. I don't suffer from anxiety that much, but my 2d visions and especially seeing halo' s are disturbingly bad. I'm gonna wait another year and if stuff is still bad i'm gonna find a doc for a proper diagnoses and proper meds (lamictal/keppra) or so. Meanwhile i'm gonna keep things like this probably, and not mess around with my nmda receptors anymore (besides NAC, but well, that one helped )

@bigpapachakra you inspirated me to do the full TULIP protocol. i believe ATP helps tons with cognitive problems!

good luck, i know things can be though. i used to be really a social person but this stuff turned me into a hermit. to set goals and keep doing things i decided to write novels and be the best novelist in my country. since i'm on disability i do have the freedom to do what i want and i'm now busy with my thirth mansuscript .

Edit : my theory (very speculative) about this disease is not that it's due to hypo glutamate but due to hyper glutamate function. i do have a couple of reasons for that : a case study a bout a woman experiencing stroke in her left brain (left brain is full of nmda, right brain ampa). she experienced dissociative symtpoms, probably due to the know calcium influx and hyper glutamate in cells in the left brain. I think our problem is a bit the same : too much glutamate and calcium in the cells, which is mostly located at the left hemisphere. another one : people with temperal lobe epilepsy and migraines get the same problems as we do, and meds that help for that are calcium channel blockers and anti convulsants. I don't think glutamate agonists will cure this, but they might help with cognitive function.

then why do nmda antagonists cause dissociation? bite me. i've read a theory about that but that didn't make sense. it's too complicated and i decide to leave this advanced biochemical stuff over to the pro's and not me.

ciao!

Edited by tylerdurden, 17 March 2014 - 10:53 PM.

[VERITAS INCORRUPTUS]

Such a powerful 'resetting' of brain neurochemistry is certainly concerning and thought provoking. You may have some rare KOR or NMDAR variance that has created such a profoundly long lasting effect.
The Suboxone should not be addictive in the period you should require to reset, if you are not looking to actually get high and do not as well have a tendency toward MOR agonist/opiate abuse (or better abuse in general of any substance of course).

As such, a short course appropriately dosed is well worth the risk to reward I would think.

[Missjess]

I've decided to follow through with solveigs advice on the hppd forum...she had the exact same problems caused by Iboga and got hppd aswel...she takes lamictal and it put her hppd into remission including visuals etc ....I deff think the Iboga has changed my glutamate receptor functioning to excessive...but I also fear I have KOR agonist effect going on still...I am interested in lamictal and also suboxone but I doubt I can take them at the same time? Does anybody know? ....I tried sarcosine and it made everything worse for me...I was trying to agonize the nmda receptor but it didn't help me at all

[tritium]

Anybody know a reliable place to order lamictal online without a prescription?

[Missjess]

I'm sure u can get it from a psychiatrist if u tell them u have dp or hppd lamictal is used to treat it

[socialpiranha]

I've decided to follow through with solveigs advice on the hppd forum...she had the exact same problems caused by Iboga and got hppd aswel...she takes lamictal and it put her hppd into remission including visuals etc ....I deff think the Iboga has changed my glutamate receptor functioning to excessive...but I also fear I have KOR agonist effect going on still...I am interested in lamictal and also suboxone but I doubt I can take them at the same time? Does anybody know? ....I tried sarcosine and it made everything worse for me...I was trying to agonize the nmda receptor but it didn't help me at all

Yes i was on lamictal when i first started taking suboxone but i dropped it because i found i didn't need it anymore with the subs, very addictive drug though be prepared to be on it for life or suffer horrible withdrawal coming off it. That being said it is the most potent antidepressant/anxiolytic/moodstabilizer i've ever used

[socialpiranha]

Anybody know a reliable place to order lamictal online without a prescription?

http://www.unitedpha...amotrigine.html

Also an alternative worth looking into might be levitiracetam(keppra) i have seen it available online, i believe i've seen zonisamide(zonegran) offered online as well

[Missjess]

Oh so u have taken both lamictal and suboxone together without any harmfull affects? I wouldn't get addicted my only reason is to hopefully fix my brain chemistry out of this awfull dissociated state !! I've never been an opiate user....same as lamictal I won't get addicted either