7 replies to this topic

[downregulated]

Hello everyone I'm new here. After reading lots of posts here I finally decided to register.
I have a major problem though and would highly appreciate if anyone could help me.
I was a bit unfortunate in my life and I had couple of psychotic experiences.
Last experience was very stressful and it took me more than one year to recover from it.
I was put on olanzapine and I'm taking low dose of it.
The thing that worries me is that I read that some antipsychotics are carcinogenic and genotoxic http://www.ncbi.nlm....pubmed/19410629 and therefore I would like to stop using this drug. not to mention that I have some side effects of the drug, though not weight gain.
But I am very afraid to stop taking it because I can not afford myself relapse because I have finally recovered and my life is finally okay.
The thing is that... using the drug my receptors are probably upregulated and those are receptors for dopamine, serotonine, histamine, muscarinic, adenergic and all those that are antagonized by olanzapine.
My doctor explained to me that by using the drug brain produces new receptors and that by stopping the medication my brain has more of those receptors and is very sensitive to all those neurotransmitters dopamine, serotonin, acetylcholine etc...
So I'm wondering what is the best way to downregulate all those receptors that this drug has upregulated?
If I stop this drug I know that rollercoaster is waiting for me and would like to know if there is any way to reverse the damage done by the drug?
I'm feeling ok but I know that there is a bit of noise somewhere in my consciousness that doesn't let me be who I genuinely am.
And I think its' because if the drug. Any ideas what to do? thanks

[YoungSchizo]

First, change your name from downregulated to upregulated, so people know you are upregulated at the moment.

Second, there are tons of topics in the mental health section about these kind of issues, browse through them for some answers.

Third, I'm schizophrenic and I personally can't give you the info you are looking for (there are way more smarter people than me on this forum, they will chime in I guess).

Fourth, I was on Zyprexa for 7-8 years (been of it for 2/3 years) and I know it destroyed more than it has helped me, it improved my positive symptoms by zombifying me and my emotions, massive weight gain which I luckily lost, permanent akathisia which Sarcosine and Mirtazapine take care off and I think it has caused a thyroid dysfunction (I wasn't been able to gain or maintain muscle mass, even after 1,5/2 years I stopped with Zyprexa. Pregnenolone seems to make my thyroid function properly again.) My current antipsychotic isn't even a antipsychotic, it's a benzo: Clonazepam, which is so much more effective than Zyprexa, when I'm stressless it reduces my positive symptoms up to 80/90%. Many people more are taking Clonazepam atm for their positive symptoms, have a look at the forum of schizophrenia.com

Fifth, I don't think that bit of noise will disappear with current treatments and/or supplements, there are currently no drugs that regulate Glutamate effectively. (Future drugs that are able to regulate Glutamate receptors seems to have a very promising outcome for psychosis/schizophrenia.)

Hope I helped you a bit.

[downregulated]

Thnx for the reply YoungSchizo.
I started taking sarcosine and it drastically helps me. It picks me up, whatever I do it goes smooth not to mention verbal fluency and mild motivation it gives me.
Recently I've discovered some info that might help me like taking methyl B12 and folate plus some supplements like gotu kola and maca that help me with my energy levels and clarity. Haven't triend methyl B12 and folate yet though but will try soon.
I've noticed that I've lost much muscle mass while on this shit of a drug. And I had quite a lot of muscle mass prior to last psychosis.
This whole situation for me is becoming frustrating. When I realized that olanzapine acts on so many receptors I freaked out. It's like chemical censorship.
I think I have the right to be myself. And also when I discovered that there is Open Dialogue project in Finland that treats people with pyschosis without meds with almost 100% sucess I was like WTF is going on?
What I would like to know is how to raise serotonin therefore use non selective serotonin agonists without tripping.
Serotonin inhibits dopamine so it might be good.
But I guess it's not all about dopamine it's also about glutamate and others...
Might ask my doc for Clonazepam.
Although I don't have positive nor negative symptoms I would like to somehow downregulate this whole dopaminergic system and don't have any clue how to do it.

Edited by downregulated, 05 February 2014 - 11:42 PM.

[YoungSchizo]

I had some methyl folate laying around, used it for a few days to empty the bottle The recommended dose is 15mg for schizophrenics, last time I looked at the prices I didn't find it worth to spend my money on it, they sell it in mcg, that's already expensive, so I don't bother looking for the price in mg. Methyl B12 I also have laying around, I started supplementing it again couple of days ago, I have them in 5000mcg, a recommended dose for schizophrenics is not established (I think), another guy here on longecity Longschi is using 1000mcg which seem to work for him. Have a look in this thread http://www.longecity...-treatmentcure/

Yup, Zyprexa is an ultimate muscle-killer that's for sure!

I don't know what your symptoms are but I'm using Mirtazapine which also keeps my psychotic symptoms at bay by slowing down my thinking process (without it, my thoughts move so fast I end up manic, then psychotic ). It also downregulates cortisol and regulates my moodswings for a great deal which in turn also helps to keep my psychotic symptoms at bay.

I think my dopamine is still a bit overactive because of my positive symptoms, even though Clonazepam and Mirtazapine are both sedative. I'm mentally very active compared to healthy people who take a low dose of one of these drugs and end up knocked out after an hour . On this combination I'm myself for a big part, that's more important for me than walking around like a careless zombie

Yea, I read somewhere about that Project, I think it's BS, do you know more about it being effective or not and/or have plans to join them?

If you don't have positive or negatives.. what symptoms do you have wanting to downregulate dopamine?

[downregulated]

Actually I just want to get off olanzapine because if gives me itches and rash. I don't think I have any positive or negative symptoms except mild dementia, I cannot remember some stuff... It might be due to muscarinic receptor blockade.
Good thing about my psychotic experience is that I educated myself about supplements and herbs and neurochemistry so i can evaluate myself better.
Olanzapine gives me some sort of subtle noise in my thinking but I guess it keeps me out of psychosis.
It's just the thing that I don't see olanzapine treatment as a long term solution. There must be something else. And all those blocked receptors that are upregulated when I quit taking it one day... it might be dangerous to stop so I don't know what to do.

[mrd1]

Actually, according to the FDA olanzapine is a approved long term treatment for bipolar disorder and for the maintenance of schizophrenia and psychotic symptoms. Therefore, I would highly advice you not to stop a medication that is helping you and is approved by the fda for long term use based on theoretical research on the web. However, you can do tons of things to help keep the dose as low as possible

[Galaxyshock]

Antipsychotics may actually downregulate dopamine-receptors:
http://jpet.aspetjou...281/1/597.short

5-HT2A receptors are also significantly decreased:
http://link.springer...7/s007020050024

Just because something is antagonistic doesn't mean it upregulates the receptor.

So APs zombify you and can leave you so to a certain extent.

Edited by Galaxyshock, 17 February 2014 - 09:13 PM.

[downregulated]

I don't think antagonizing receptors can downregulate receptors because when I don't take olanzapine for two days I am in mild psychedelic state, I get the goosebums , feels like amphetamine... especially when I listen to music, it gives me chills al lthe time and that is the effect of dopamine
and I need to take ap because I can get easily overstimulated and my metabolism because of high dopamine speeds up and i begin to loose weight and I know when I start to loose weight that it's no good

Edited by downregulated, 17 February 2014 - 09:22 PM.