21 replies to this topic

[agwoodliffe]

I've read that GABA on its own has poor bioavailability. I thought try it anyway to counter the side effects of Ginkgo. It definitely has some kind of neurological effect. What percentage roughly of GABA can cross the BBB?

[normalizing]

on ncbi GABA seems to do cross BBB but sublingual is the way to go. i doubt orally it has much effect unless you dose high

[chemicalambrosia]

GABA IMO has an effect taken orally. Take five grams on a completely empty stomach and then take something that effects GABA(even something like Valerian root) 1/2 an hour later and feel the potentiation at work...

[Sciencyst]

Its most definitely unmistakeably psychoactive if you take it sublingually, but only sublingually. But it does have the side effects of itchy skin similar to a niacin flush, and it will give you the most god awful, wet, heavy farts that take months for the residue to clear from the room. If you try it with alcohol be careful. itll blow you away but be careful

[bzyb]

I think GABA is useless for those who may have some anxiety issues since it is a gaba agonist. I remember at a job fair I took some gaba amongst other things and I felt a nervous wreck so since then I've shelved the capsules and haven't looked back. As for as those without those issues, I have heard it calms the nerves. I would read ScienceGuy's long thread about it for more info or just experiment to see how it reacts with you.

[BlueCloud]

I don't know how much this is true, but since GABA ( the supplement ) is not supposed to cross the blood brain-barrier, it is proposed that it could be used as a sort of test : basically if you can feel the effect of GABA, you probably have a permeable BBB.
I can't feel the effects of GABA even at quite big doses.

Edited by BlueCloud, 18 February 2014 - 12:59 AM.

[chemicalambrosia]

I don't know how much this is true, but since GABA ( the supplement ) is not supposed to cross the blood brain-barrier, it is proposed that it could be used as a sort of test : basically if you can feel the effect of GABA, you probably have a permeable BBB.
I can't feel the effects of GABA even at quite big doses.

If one was to assume that was an accurate test, what action would you take after knowing you have a permeable BBB?

[medicineman]

A GABA-EEG test of the blood-brain barrier near epileptic foci.

AuthorsRemler MP, et al. Show all Journal
Appl Neurophysiol. 1983;46(5-6):276-85.

Affiliation
Abstract
The permeability of the blood-brain barrier (BBB) to gamma-aminobutyric acid (GABA) in the region of an epileptic focus may be assessed by infusing GABA and measuring a change in epileptic spike activity on the EEG. GABA does not cross the normal BBB but will suppress epileptic spike activity when it does cross where the BBB is damaged. 9 alumina-cobalt experimental epileptic foci were all initially suppressible, but 7 then became unsuppressible . When the foci were irradiated to lower the BBB, all 7 became temporarily suppressible. The experiments demonstrate that (1) epileptic foci can be equally active both with the BBB 'open' and 'closed'; (2) the intravenous GABA-EEG test can detect whether the BBB near the epileptic focus is open to GABA, and (3) anatomic tests of BBB integrity (in these experiments intravenous trypan blue) cannot determine if whether BBB near the focus is 'open' to GABA. Since the intravenous GABA-EEG test reveals the permeability of the BBB in the immediate environment of the epileptic focus, it may be very useful in the selection of a susceptible therapeutic group for inhibitory amino acid therapy.

PMID 6677191 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]

This has been brought up, and settled for good here. GABA DOES NOT cross the bbb, unless it is damaged. This is why there are drugs of all sorts designed either to decrease GABA breakdown (vigabatrin) increase its potency as an agonist (benzos) or by sneaking it through (picamilon)

A-type transport protein, which transports GABA and other neutral amino acids, isn't present on the BBB. Not only this, GABA and neutral AAs are efficiently pumped out of the CNS.

Maybe perceived effects (if not placebo or sham studies) are affecting the few areas which don't have a bbb?

Edited by medicineman, 18 February 2014 - 09:35 AM.

[Ames]

Settled for good here? I'm not sure how something can be settled for good, let alone something having to do with supplementation and pharmacy. That doesn't seem possible to me at our current level of knowledge.

Also, I'm not sure how you could 'settle' such a thing when, personally, GABA is often directly responsible for escorting me into an additional 5-6 hours sleep when I take it in the morning, after 8 hours of sleep. It's not placebo, and it crosses my BBB well enough. There is literally nothing else that I know of, short of a prescription sedative, that could hope to accomplish anything close. Does that mean my BBB is damaged? Possibly, but not probably.

[normalizing]

gaba can cross BBB sublingually. it has been mentioned many many times and people still make threads asking "UUUH IS GABA ACTIVE!?!?!"

[Gerrans]

Also, there is more to GABA than its effect in the brain. Even a substance that does not mainly cross the blood-brain barrier might affect the nervous system through its actions elsewhere. For example, a compound that relaxes the muscles might make it easier to fall asleep.

[MikeDC]

Gaba increase longevity gene Klotho expression and effective against type 1 diabetes.

 

https://www.ncbi.nlm...pubmed/28993191

 

https://www.ncbi.nlm...pubmed/28702122

[Daniel Cooper]

on ncbi GABA seems to do cross BBB but sublingual is the way to go. i doubt orally it has much effect unless you dose high

 

 

As far as I know GABA isn't destroyed in the GI tract, so why would sublingual be better than oral?  The issue has always been whether it crosses the BBB.  I don't know why sublingual should get it across the BBB any better.

[Daniel Cooper]

Also, there is more to GABA than its effect in the brain. Even a substance that does not mainly cross the blood-brain barrier might affect the nervous system through its actions elsewhere. For example, a compound that relaxes the muscles might make it easier to fall asleep.

 

 

Oral GABA is certainly active in the peripheral nervous system.  Probably active on other systems outside the brain as well.

[MikeDC]

I started to take gaba at 150mg. It definitely has large effect on alertness and sleep. I sleep better. But feels not as alert as before in the morning. The effects last over 12 hours. The recommended daily dose of gaba supplements is too high. The mice study used 8mg/kg I remember and that is equivalent to 33mg for a person weighting 50kg.

[Charles Thompson]

I find it works nicely for sleep but definitely you wanna ensure you cycle it.

[Kinesis]

on ncbi GABA seems to do cross BBB but sublingual is the way to go. i doubt orally it has much effect unless you dose high

As far as I know GABA isn't destroyed in the GI tract, so why would sublingual be better than oral? The issue has always been whether it crosses the BBB. I don't know why sublingual should get it across the BBB any better.

Second that motion. Sublingual is useless for getting past the BBB.

Megadosing might get a little through ... even the BBB is not 100%. But peripheral effects will be overwhelming long before you reach that threshold. Many people, including myself, get a niacin-like flush from just 500-1000 mg on an empty stomach. Personally I take GABA along with theanine, but any psychoactive effect is minimal at best. Maybe folks that have a compromised BBB might get a little more than placebo, but if your BBB is compromised you have bigger problems than getting GABA in there.

[MikeDC]

Gaba is just too powerful for me to take 500mg at the same time. I have reduced my dose to about 100mg every other day. It still has strong calming effects and sleep better. But not causing drowsy ness the next day. I think people should stop taking gaba at high doses.

[Charles Thompson]

If you’re taking gaba for anxiolytic effects there’s definitely better choices and as for sleep, I think it’s just too easily adapted to for it to be a viable strategy.

For those with sleep issues, I personally find you can’t beat a combination of no stims after midday and zma at a low dose with the occasional use of phenibut or melatonin when you need to get to sleep fast (say when travelling across lots of time zones and need to adapt quickly).

[MikeDC]

The only reason I take Gaba is because it increases longevity gene Klotho expression. It is probably the most effective supplement to increase Klotho right now. For details see the paper I posted earlier.

[Charles Thompson]

Hmmm. Interesting but do you think a similar drug/nutrient to it could potentially deliver similar results (thinking of phenibut, GHB, GBL etc)?

[MikeDC]

Hmmm. Interesting but do you think a similar drug/nutrient to it could potentially deliver similar results (thinking of phenibut, GHB, GBL etc)?

I have looked into Klotho supplementation for a long time. Gaba is the best and only effective way to increase Klotho for healthy old people. Hypertension drugs helps, but you need to have hypertension to take these drugs and they have side effects.