45 replies to this topic

[cuprous]

Could someone summarize the real concerns here with oxidation of the c60oo during mixing? The olive oil we buy has been exposed to the air a whole lot all the way up to its bottling! It is probably as oxygen loaded as it can get with exposure to regular air. How is a dozen cc of air at the top of the bottle during mixing really going to change things vs what Bhaati did?

[niner]

Hello,

The possible pro-oxidant effects of aggregates from unfiltered C60 olive oil make me really worried. I have been using the following “protocol” for making and dosing C60 for 5 months now:

First I took 370ml air tight glass jar in which I dissolved 150mg of C60 in vacuum oven dried 99.95+ % purity grade. My glass jar has been continuously on the magnetic stirrer in dark room except for one day a week on which I turn off the stirrer on the morning and collect 50ml of olive oil from top of the jar to be used in following week. I have been using 4mg / 5 days a week dosing regime. Immediately after the collection of C60 I top out the jar with olive oil and add 20mg of C60 and the process continues. NB! I haven’t grinded my C60.

Here are the reasons I feel so worried about the aggregation problem now: firstly the colour of my C60 in EVOO solution is brown, which should imply heavy aggregation process. Secondly I have been seeing the accumulation of undissolved C60 on the bottom of my glass jar ( I would estimate that after going through around 0.8g of C60 I have 0.25-0.3g of undissolved c60 laying on the bottom of my glass jar. Thirdly Baati et al., 2012 have specially noted in their article that the solution the used was not in brown coloured and did not turn into brown colour (they interpreted the brown colour of C60 in EVOO solution as showing the level of aggregation).

Niner, do You have any option on my “protocol” and possible negative effects of pro-oxidant C60 aggregates. Could You please inform us the purity grade of C60 You have been using. I am thinking that maybe the Carbon 60, 99.9+ %, purified would dissolve better than Carbon 60, 99.95+ %, ultra pure Vacuum oven dried variety. Do You know the purity level of C60 that Baati et al., 2012 were using? They say 99.98% pure in the article so it would imply VOD variety of C60? Thank You in advance.

I prefer to make one batch at a time, and give it a long time to dissolve and react with the oil. If you keep drawing off some c60-oo, some of it has only been stirring for a week. I would expect it to have more particulates for that reason. Although the large unreacted particles fall to the bottom of the bottle, the particles in the size range from tens of nanometers to a micron or so will remain suspended in the oil, and are invisible. While the larger particles will pass through the digestive tract, I'm more concerned about the submicron particles. I don't know where they are going to end up.

If you want to avoid particulates, you could stir for a week or two, then filter the oil using a relatively coarse filter, or just decant the clear oil off the top after letting the visible particles settle out. Clean the large particles out of the bottle, then return the clear solution and continue to stir it for another week. My thinking here is that particles of whatever size will continue to get smaller, and the smallest particles should dissolve much faster since they have a much higher surface to mass ratio. It's possible that the small particles consist of unreactive non-fullerene material, in which case they wouldn't dissolve.

If you make one complete batch, you'll have enough for seven weeks, at the rate you're using it. That would give you plenty of time to make another batch. Because of the extremely long pharmacokinetics of c60-oo, a two day break from use isn't really doing much. I use it (15mg/day) for 2 days, then break for 28 days. Others use shorter intervals, like dosing once a week.

I'm using the 99.95% grade from SES. Baati said they used a 99.98% grade from SES, which SES doesn't sell any more, although I've seen it somewhere on the web. I don't remember where. Might have been a German company, or maybe Solaris. At any rate, a lower purity should dissolve more easily, but I don't know what the impurities would do. Perhaps nothing, but we don't really know.

[niner]

Could someone summarize the real concerns here with oxidation of the c60oo during mixing? The olive oil we buy has been exposed to the air a whole lot all the way up to its bottling! It is probably as oxygen loaded as it can get with exposure to regular air. How is a dozen cc of air at the top of the bottle during mixing really going to change things vs what Bhaati did?

155 cc of air contains enough oxygen to put an epoxide on every molecule in a gram of c60, so the less you expose it to, the better. There are several ways to degas olive oil. One way is to put it under vacuum. Another is to freeze it, then thaw it. This removes some gas, but I'm not sure how much. Yet another way would be to bubble nitrogen or argon through the oil for some amount of time, which will wash out the O2 and replace it with the other gas. This last method is called "sparging". Olive oil is capable of holding a non-trivial amount of gas. At 38 degrees C, a liter of olive oil will hold 102 cc of O2, according to a 1954 paper by Rodnight. At lower temperatures, it would be less, which is why freezing will drive off gas.

[HHM]

Another and very efficient way to degas a viscous fluid like olive oil is to sonicate it. I use an ultrasonic jewelycleaner for 20 sek and this does the trick


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[cuprous]

Why not displace the atmospheric gas at the top of the bottle with something like this (a wine preserver)? As you close the lid on your mix solution, spray a steady stream of O2 free mix into the bottle. Of course you won't get 100% displacement but probably 90+.

One comment I will make though is to not fill your jars too high and then set them to mix. You will generate turbulence at the top which will result in a cloudy mix. It bubbles out after a day or two but it's probably non-ideal. That written, I'm still skeptical that we're capable of O2 loading olive oil after it has gone through harvesting, pressing, filtering, pumping, storing, shipping in big tanks, small tanks, and finally bottling.

[trance]

Something like this is probably an even better option -- reusable & cheaper.

[mait]

Hello. Just another random idea / question:

It seems that everybody here including me have been dissolving >1mg of C60 per 1ml of EVO. But Baati used a much more saturated (maybe oversaturated) solution: "Fifty mg of C₆₀ were dissolved in 10 ml of olive oil by stirring for 2 weeks at ambient temperature in the dark." And the stirring process by Baati seems to be completed in dark but not in sealed flask? Maybe using oversaturated C60 in EVO sulution changes how the reaction occurs in EVO? Maybe oversaturation of C60 in solution changes the dynamics of C60 aggregation and/or oxidation?

Edited by mait, 10 March 2014 - 10:07 AM.

[cuprous]

Something like this is probably an even better option -- reusable & cheaper.

That fits wine bottles only.

[mait]

Hello. Just another random idea / question:

It seems that everybody here including me have been dissolving >1mg of C60 per 1ml of EVO. But Baati used a much more saturated (maybe oversaturated) solution: "Fifty mg of C₆₀ were dissolved in 10 ml of olive oil by stirring for 2 weeks at ambient temperature in the dark." And the stirring process by Baati seems to be completed in dark but not in sealed flask? Maybe using oversaturated C60 in EVO sulution changes how the reaction occurs in EVO? Maybe oversaturation of C60 in solution changes the dynamics of C60 aggregation and/or oxidation?

Sidenote: I meant "...everybody here including me have been dissolving <1mg of C60 per 1ml of EVO" and not "everybody here including me have been dissolving more than 1mg of C60 per 1ml of EVO".

[trance]

Something like this is probably an even better option -- reusable & cheaper.

That fits wine bottles only.

Not true. It fits any bottle with a round hole -- not just wine bottles. It fits all the bottles of various commercial olive oil and C60-oo infused olive oil that I have. The stopper is tapered to fit multiple size openings. You pump the top to remove all air from the bottle, while it tightens the seal as well.

A negative vacuum may actually be beneficial to the C60-oo mixture. This product is completely reusable, fits multiple sized bottle openings, it doesn't run out, and there is no aerosol propellants or other chemical residue being sprayed into your C60 olive oil -- probably something that you really want to avoid anyway.

[johnwg49]

As a junior DIY, does anyone have a suggestion for how much C60 I should put into my olive oil to mix?  I ask because the Carbon60 site says to put in 5 times the amount of Carbon 60 that will eventually be fully absorbed into the olive oil to mix.  That sounds like wasting a lot of C60.  How much C60 do you Do It Yourselfers put into your olive oil to mix?

[mikey]

Baati put 0.8 mg of C60 for each ml of oil. Why not just replicate with the method he used in the study?

 

Tried and true. So much busy-making trying to tech out and complicate this. Why waste time?

Edited by mikey, 23 October 2017 - 08:13 PM.

[johnwg49]

For those DIY's, how do you make C60 with coconut oil?  Since coconut oil tends to melt at 76 degrees, how do you make C60 with coconut oil unless you find a way to keep a room at 76 degrees or warmer?  Is there like a brand of coconut oil that melts at a lower temperature or that stays liquid?

[hav]

As a junior DIY, does anyone have a suggestion for how much C60 I should put into my olive oil to mix?  I ask because the Carbon60 site says to put in 5 times the amount of Carbon 60 that will eventually be fully absorbed into the olive oil to mix.  That sounds like wasting a lot of C60.  How much C60 do you Do It Yourselfers put into your olive oil to mix?

 

The solubility limit of c60 at room temperature in olive oil is documented to be around .8 or .9 mg/ml.  I think the Carbon60 folks start out with more on the theory that it's hard to get all of a sample to fully dissolve and they'll get closer to the max if they put in more to start with.  For myself, I use 1 mg/ml with olive oil and up to 2 mg/ml with higher oleic sunflower oils.

 

Howard

[johnwg49]

 

As a junior DIY, does anyone have a suggestion for how much C60 I should put into my olive oil to mix?  I ask because the Carbon60 site says to put in 5 times the amount of Carbon 60 that will eventually be fully absorbed into the olive oil to mix.  That sounds like wasting a lot of C60.  How much C60 do you Do It Yourselfers put into your olive oil to mix?

 

The solubility limit of c60 at room temperature in olive oil is documented to be around .8 or .9 mg/ml.  I think the Carbon60 folks start out with more on the theory that it's hard to get all of a sample to fully dissolve and they'll get closer to the max if they put in more to start with.  For myself, I use 1 mg/ml with olive oil and up to 2 mg/ml with higher oleic sunflower oils.

 

Howard

 

Thanks Howard, this is all new to me.  It would get pretty expensive to put in 5x the C60 unless I can reuse the undissolved amount.  I think I will go with the .8 to .9 mg/ml.  Thanks again!

[sensei]

 

 

As a junior DIY, does anyone have a suggestion for how much C60 I should put into my olive oil to mix?  I ask because the Carbon60 site says to put in 5 times the amount of Carbon 60 that will eventually be fully absorbed into the olive oil to mix.  That sounds like wasting a lot of C60.  How much C60 do you Do It Yourselfers put into your olive oil to mix?

 

The solubility limit of c60 at room temperature in olive oil is documented to be around .8 or .9 mg/ml.  I think the Carbon60 folks start out with more on the theory that it's hard to get all of a sample to fully dissolve and they'll get closer to the max if they put in more to start with.  For myself, I use 1 mg/ml with olive oil and up to 2 mg/ml with higher oleic sunflower oils.

 

Howard

 

Thanks Howard, this is all new to me.  It would get pretty expensive to put in 5x the C60 unless I can reuse the undissolved amount.  I think I will go with the .8 to .9 mg/ml.  Thanks again!

 

 

When I was making my own batches using 99.95% SES C60 and premium EVOO, I would measure out .8-.9 mg per ml (so 160-180 mg for a 200 ml batch) on a digital mg scale.

 

Then I would use  mortar and pestle and crush/mix until dust.

 

Then it would go into the Bell Canning Mason Jar, some OO would be used to rinse the mortar bowl, and dump the rest of the OO into the mason jar.

 

Seal the lid -- shake by hand for 2 minutes or so, put in cupboard.

 

Repeat shaking multiple times per day.

 

Depending on the shaking intensity, the initial grinding, and the number of shaking sessions per day, it would take 1 -2 weeks for there to be no residue of C60 left and the OO was a deep magenta/merlot.

 

If the batch was retained much longer after completion the color would slowly change to a brownish merlot - depending on the initial color of the EVOO -- higher polyphenol content would result in a darker oil.