19 replies to this topic

[Razor444]

There's a belief that L-glutamine may cause excitotoxicity. This has been debated, but assuming it's true (for the sake of this comparison), would NAG be a better form to supplement with, from a brain health point of view?

[adamh]

I use l glutamine for nerve pain and have for years. I never need to up the dose. I highly doubt its exitotoxic or neurotoxic.

[Jeoshua]

N-Acetyl-L-Glutamine might be better from a nootropic point of view, but not because of any neurotoxicity of L-Glutamine, which is completely overblown at normal supplemental dosages anyways.

[Razor444]

I use l glutamine for nerve pain and have for years. I never need to up the dose. I highly doubt its exitotoxic or neurotoxic.

Is there anything in particular that makes you dubious?

[Razor444]

N-Acetyl-L-Glutamine might be better from a nootropic point of view, but not because of any neurotoxicity of L-Glutamine, which is completely overblown at normal supplemental dosages anyways.

Why would you say NAG is better, as a noot?

I've not been learning biology/chemistry long enough to understand how each of them work. I could guess that NAG acts as an acetyl donor for ACh, thus making it more useful; But that could well be wrong. It's just a regurgitation of something I've read in relation to ALCAR.

[Jeoshua]

No, your "regurgitation" is pretty much spot on. Although, ALCAR is the prefered form since it is turned into Acetyl-Coenzyme A more readilly.

That, and the Acetyl group is said to improve the compound's ability to cross the Blood Brain Barrier.

Edited by Jeoshua, 21 February 2014 - 06:30 PM.

[dunbar]

This is scary. Does this mean if I take whey protein which also contains glutamine I actually cause the same toxic
effects which you get from MSG which is added to foods?

[Jeoshua]

Glutamine and Glutamate are two different things. The supposed danger of Glutamine is really overblown, there is so much that the body has to do to Glutamine to turn it into Glutamate that is should not be seen as a possible source of neurotoxicity unless one's body were already very broken, and if that were the case one wouldn't really be able to take supplements anyways, let alone function.

Guys! Stahp! You're scaring Dunbar again!

Edited by Jeoshua, 21 February 2014 - 06:59 PM.

[dunbar]

Ah ok. Let's hope you're right.

I'm also not really sure if I should keep taking whey protein. I saw something on tv where they were trying to sell plant based amino acids
and they said something like animal proteins and dairy proteins are turned into some kind of ash in the body which then builds up in the body. Not sure what to think of that but it sounded scary.

[Jeoshua]

Plant-based amino acid supplements are often lacking in Branch Chain Amino Acids and some other very healthy aminos. Dairy can be complicated, tho, by hormones and spoilage. So really they both have their benefits and their downsides.

[dunbar]

I dont know if hormones are also an issue with whey protein.
They were simply arguing against animal protein in general saying that it creates ash in the body and that it's acidic and so on.
This made me feel bad for taking whey protein. Now when I'm using whey I always feel kinda bad about it and wonder if it's even worth
taking it. I mean I cant say that I feel or look better. I'm damn skinny. I dont even know if taking whey makes any difference at all.

[Jeoshua]

Well Whey should not be used as a replacement for food, but rather as a quickly absorbed and utilized protein on TOP of other foods. It will make you feel satiated, so you will tend to eat less, but fight through that. Take it after working out a little bit (enough to raise your heart rate, at least), for best effect.

[dunbar]

I only take like 20gr whey protein in the morning. I usually mix it with oats and water and then drink it.
It just makes me feel a bit better cause otherwise I'd worry about not having enough protein.

[MizTen]

I only take like 20gr whey protein in the morning. I usually mix it with oats and water and then drink it.
It just makes me feel a bit better cause otherwise I'd worry about not having enough protein.

dunbar,

Do you cook the oats?

[dunbar]

No, I just blend them in water.

Why do you ask? I once tried cooking them but after cooking the oats are so thick and eating them with a spoon takes awfully long.
Mixing them with water on the other hand is quick and you can drink the same amount of oats in much shorter time.

No, I just blend them in water.

Why do you ask? I once tried cooking them but after cooking the oats are so thick and eating them with a spoon takes awfully long.
Mixing them with water on the other hand is quick and you can drink the same amount of oats in much shorter time.

[MizTen]

I asked because I thought that oats are more digestible after cooking or at least overnight soaking. But you've probably got a good solution for digestibility by putting your drink in a blender. In fact, that's probably a perfect solution. No worries...

[Razor444]

That, and the Acetyl group is said to improve the compound's ability to cross the Blood Brain Barrier.

If that's the case, L-glutamine would be more fitting. After all, it's better if it doesn't cross the BBB, if one is being cautious (maybe overcautious).

[Razor444]

I only take like 20gr whey protein in the morning. I usually mix it with oats and water and then drink it.
It just makes me feel a bit better cause otherwise I'd worry about not having enough protein.

This is a small quantity of whey, so don't be too concerned, in any case. Personally I consume ~75g x 3 a day, and also add ~3.6g of L-glutamine.

Here's a short list of supplements Russell Blaylock has touted as being protective against excitotoxicity:

• acetyl- L- carnitine
• Phosphotidylserine
• Vitamin C, E, and the carotonoids ( beta carotene, lycopene, alpha carotene, etc)
• Coenzyme Q10
• N-acetyl-l-cysteine ( NAC)
• magnesium
• methylcobalamin ( Vitamin B12)
• pyridoxine, thiamine, riboflavin, niacinamide
• grape seed extract ( and other flavonoids)
• Zinc
• Juice plus+ is a well compounded formula with high concentrations of flavonoids, vitamins and minerals.

[Duchykins]

Glutamine to glutamate is no big deal unless you get headaches from glutamate excitotoxicity (which is not a result of something being wrong with the glutamate itself), and if you did you would probably already know. Taurine and theanine help ward off glutamate excitotoxicity, if that is something that you are concerned about.

[Duchykins]

I dont know if hormones are also an issue with whey protein.
They were simply arguing against animal protein in general saying that it creates ash in the body and that it's acidic and so on.
This made me feel bad for taking whey protein. Now when I'm using whey I always feel kinda bad about it and wonder if it's even worth
taking it. I mean I cant say that I feel or look better. I'm damn skinny. I dont even know if taking whey makes any difference at all.

I dont know if hormones are also an issue with whey protein.
They were simply arguing against animal protein in general saying that it creates ash in the body and that it's acidic and so on.
This made me feel bad for taking whey protein. Now when I'm using whey I always feel kinda bad about it and wonder if it's even worth
taking it. I mean I cant say that I feel or look better. I'm damn skinny. I dont even know if taking whey makes any difference at all.

I'm sorry but I had to lol at the sentence about animal proteins creating ash and whatnot. A lot of the negative things you hear about animal proteins and meats is simply complete bullshit, ideological bullshit, and sometimes even political bullshit. Especially if vegans want to promote pea or hemp protein powders.

The fact of the matter is that humans are specifically designed by nature (so to speak) to be omnivores. That is the evolutionary ideal for us, that is the way to best feed ourselves for total body health. If we were better off without meats, then vegetarians would have be selected long ago and our bodies would look different as a result - one example; our stomachs would have to be larger, and our intestines much longer, in order to extract as many nutrients from plant material as true herbivores do, this would be detrimental to walking upright with our spine as stressed as it already is without the protruding abdomen. Nutrients can be extracted from meats much more efficiently than plants and this allows our bowels to be smaller, like you see in carnivores, including using less energy in the digestive process and being easier on our bodies. Not to mention that eating meat, and cooking meat, gave us a significant edge in the brain department. And I can plainly see what happens to vegetarians low in creatine, taurine, and EPA (only a small fraction of ALA ingested is converted). The exotic lengths at which vegetarians and vegans have to go with their diets and supplements to have even a modicum of physical/mental/intellectual health is a testament to the nutritional inferiority of swearing off meat/animal protein.

Why people would want to mess with what works, I don't know. I could just be biased with my knowledge of evolutionary biology though, so please don't anyone take it personal.


Keep your whey, ignore the idiots, feel better.

Edited by Duchykins, 23 February 2014 - 01:25 AM.