9 replies to this topic

[Wolf]

I read some small studies on using 3 grams of glycine to improve sleep quality. I've always been able to sleep 8 hours straight but I always feel tired when I wake up and through the day so I try supplements that might improve sleep quality. I took 3 grams of glycine before bed for a week and I didn't notice any positive effects. I had read about some people using 5 grams of glycine twice a day to improve joints and possibly help soft tissue injuries as well. I've had quadriceps tendonitis for over a year in both my legs (finally going to physical therapy), so I thought I'd up it to 5 grams before going to bed to give me a reason to take it at least. After about a week at 5 grams before bed I started waking up after 5 hours of sleep and couldn't fall back asleep. The next 2 days I tried taking it in the morning but the waking up after 5 hours continued. I've stopped taking glycine over a month ago and my sleep has never gone back to normal.

Over the past 2 years I've tried valerian root extract, l-theanine, 5-HTP, melatonin, magnesium, mucuna pruriens, and taurine. Only the melatonin has had any effect which is helping me fall asleep a bit faster, so I continue to take 750 mcg. I didn't notice anything with magnesium glycinate either, but I continue to take that since I needed more anyways. I still have most of the supplements so I've been trying them again to see if they'd help. I tried taking 150 mg of l-theanine for a few nights without any change. I tried taking 50 mg of 5-HTP for a few days without any change, though I'm guessing the dosage was a bit low on that. It wasn't until I tried the valerian root extract that I was able to sleep about 7 hours, but still more tired during the day than usual. After a week of taking the valerian root extract I started to have an odd drowsy feeling during the day. So I tried 1000 mg of taurine on its own after a few days of the odd drowsy feeling. At first I thought it might work since I slept about 7 hours and only woke up briefly once and felt like I had more energy during the day. But the next night I slept badly. I've been mixing the taurine and valerian root extract for almost a week. But 3 days ago I only slept 3 hours and couldn't fall back to sleep. 2 nights ago I decided to try 3 mg of melatonin and 100 mg of 5-HTP. I woke up after 4 hours. After laying there for awhile I took another 3 mg of melatonin and managed to sleep almost another 4 hours. Last night I tried 3 mg of melatonin and 150 mg of 5-HTP. I slept 5 hours and couldn't fall back to sleep.

So I've been having fun over the last month. Does anyone know how I screwed up my sleep from 3-5 grams of glycine for 2 weeks? I haven't changed any other supplements I'm taking or anything else at all. I've never had a side effect from a supplement that doesn't go away the next day. I'd sure love to get back to my 8 hours of sleep.

[protoject]

could be coincidence

though a strange one

gaba and taurine both agonize gaba receptors which could cause gaba receptor downregulation, theoretically, though Im not sure how strongly they do this.


Perhaps it's from downregulation of the glycine receptor, rather.

will go back to normal soon im sure

except id stop taking all the supplements during that time

I get the same problems from glycine/ taurine

btw not sure if you are still taking mag glycinate but if you didnt notice it does have "glycine" in it. dissociates into magnesium and glycine.

edit: sorry forgot to mention, taurine is also a glycine and gaba receptor agonist, so even though You're not taking glycine, if you're taking taurine it may be having a similar effect. Though again maybe you were already taking this before the whole incident....

Edited by protoject, 28 February 2014 - 06:39 AM.

[Wolf]

I did try taurine before for a week or so without any positive or negative effects for sleep. Though I suppose it may not have been enough time for the side effects to show maybe. I did know that about magnesium glycinate, but I've been taking the Doctor's Best magnesium glycinate for almost 2 years probably. I guess it does say glycinate/lysinate chelate though. I didn't think it would make things worse. I agree I probably should stop taking all those supplements, but the 5 hours or less of sleep without them doesn't leave me functioning so well during the day. What if I don't take things that effect GABA then? Which I guess would be taurine and I thought valerian root effects GABA as well. Though 5-HTP and melatonin hasn't worked so well as it is.

[Purgatory]

Hi Wolf,

 

If you're still around, I wondered if this ever resolved for you. I also have sleep issues that are very confounded but I eat a high-glycine diet and it may be a factor. I always wake up after 2-4 hours. Previously I had managed to sleep up to 6-8 for awhile (not great quality but better than nothing), which ended around the time I increased glycine. I get a weird kind of detached feeling that prevents sleep. Stopping extra glycine didn't help and I need everything else it comes with (in gelatin *).

 

The only clue I found was possible antagonism between niacin or tryptophan and glycine in an old study: http://www.jbc.org/c.../2/659.full.pdf I thought maybe the glycine depleted something.

 

Taking 500-1000mg niacinamide did improve things temporarily - meaning it directly counteracted the weird detached feeling - though it's a bit early to tell. I think in turn the niacin may depend on something else to work effectively (riboflavin? minerals?). I have a tryptophan supplement which I take to even out the gelatin (since too much of other proteins lowers brain tryptophan) and other proteins but excess tryptophan has always worsened sleep quality after a day or two for me and it's a supplement I wish to avoid in quantities if possible.

 

This is far from scientific.

 

I also tried B6, zinc, magnesium but either they have no effect here or I'm not taking enough (doubt it unless I have a disorder I don't know about).

 

* I also suspect glycine particularly because I get a definite additional amount from various mineral glycinate chelates

Edited by Purgatory, 04 September 2014 - 06:59 AM.

[StevesPetRat]

Taking 500-1000mg niacinamide did improve things temporarily - meaning it directly counteracted the weird detached feeling - though it's a bit early to tell. I think in turn the niacin may depend on something else to work effectively (riboflavin? minerals?).

You may need more methyl donors to compensate for the niacin.

[Purgatory]

 

Taking 500-1000mg niacinamide did improve things temporarily - meaning it directly counteracted the weird detached feeling - though it's a bit early to tell. I think in turn the niacin may depend on something else to work effectively (riboflavin? minerals?).

You may need more methyl donors to compensate for the niacin.

 

 

Thanks! I tried more methylfolate and methylcobalamin (I had already been taking both for some time along with the other Bs, but did try increasing them). The folate adds a bit of energy during the day (not much effect at night?) whereas the methylcobalamin seemed to make the weird feeling and sleep worse. Choline gives me depression when I take too much so I avoid. The depression sometimes induces sleep but it's rarely very long. Not sure if it counts as a methyl donor here anyway.

Edited by Purgatory, 04 September 2014 - 03:13 PM.

[Purgatory]

Oh one other thing I forgot is, if for some reason glycine levels remained elevated, you could probably supplement with glutamate or glutamine and maybe NAC (or methylation? above) to produce glutathione as a way of ridding the glycine. This is written lots of places but here's one: http://www.ncbi.nlm....pubmed/14609312

 

I've had trouble telling if glutamine alone has done anything to help sleep or not. Unlike niacin I have trouble gauging it.

 

Unrelated, here's another old story linking glycine to niacin but in chicks: http://jn.nutrition..../3/415.full.pdf Also mentions folate and B12. They characterize glycine as growth depressing in chicks.

 

Edit: Yet another, I read anecdotally that methionine might be depleted by glycine in the sense that glycine supplementation has some of the longevity-boosting effects of methionine restriction.

 

Edit 2: More hints: http://www.ncbi.nlm..../pubmed/3668700

Effect of dietary glycine on methionine metabolism in rats fed a high-methionine diet.
 

The alleviation mechanism of methionine toxicity by dietary glycine was investigated in weanling rats fed a high-methionine diet. When rats were fed a 10% casein diet containing 2% methionine, the activities of methionine adenosyltransferase, cystathionine beta-synthase, and cystathionine gamma-lyase, which participate in the methionine metabolism in the transsulfuration pathway, were significantly enhanced. But the addition of 2% glycine to the high methionine diet did not cause further increase in these enzyme activities; the activities of methionine adenosyltransferase and cystathionine beta-synthase were rather decreased while cystathionine gamma-lyase activity was not altered. Methionine transaminase activity was essentially insensitive to the dietary addition of methionine and glycine. In rats fed a high methionine diet, the hepatic methionine level was significantly increased with a concomitant decrease in the levels of glycine, serine, and threonine. The addition of glycine to the high methionine diet effectively suppressed the enhancement of the hepatic methionine level and almost completely restored the glycine level, but it only partially restored the serine level and further decreased the threonine level. From these results, it is suggested that the alleviating effect of dietary glycine on methionine toxicity is primarily elicited by the restoration of the hepatic glycine level rather than by an increase in hepatic enzyme activity.

General impression I get is that too much glycine might call for extra muscle meats.

Edited by Purgatory, 04 September 2014 - 05:11 PM.

[ironfistx]

When you said you get the same thing from glycine/taurine do you mean together, or eiach of them?

I find the magnesium taurate is a good sleep aid, although if I take it I have trouble getting up the next day. Also 500mg by itself seems to help. I w

[Wilberforce]

An old post I know but interested if anyone else has found that Glycine negatively affects sleep.  If I take 2g after drinking alcohol I sleep well and wake with near zero hangover (liver protection maybe?).  If I take it sober my sleep is terrible.  I've started taking it in the morning and experience it as an energiser.

[Moondancer]

Why does Protoject say Glycine use downregulates the Giycine receptor ? Any studies?

Edited by Moondancer, 25 September 2017 - 01:30 AM.