39 replies to this topic

[Gerrans]

There are so many things we can do to, putatively, decrease our chances of dying from many serious ailments--keep fit, maintain an optimal weight, eat healthily, etc. In theory, it seems to me that heart diseases are the easiest to guard against; cancer is considerably more mysterious, but many studies support credible preventative measures. However, in all my reading, I have seen nothing that gives me a clue how to reduce the chances of pancreatic cancer. If we get that one, it is virtually game over: the doctors, by all accounts, just tell you how long you have to live.

Recently, I have noticed with unease a series of celebrities being diagnosed with terminal pancreas cancer, or something similar: Steve Jobs, Simon Hoggart, Iain Banks, Wilko Johnson, Roger Lloyd-Pack. What disconcerts me is how lean these guys were. This is a disease that seems just as likely to strike you if you are not overweight.

Difficult to know about the diet of these chaps. They are educated people who might be presumed to know what healthy food is. We know Jobs was a vegan and other things, and there have been attempts to associate his problems with fructose. I doubt, however, that rock guitarist Wilko Johnson was a fruit addict. I am guessing he may have drunk a lot in his time. But if drink is at work among these guys, we know that was not the case with Jobs.

Looking at their photos, some of them seem to be balding, but not all. Images on google show male pancreas cancer victims to be more often balding than not. Vague clue, I know, but it might hint at hormonal matters.

Seems a shame to put all our efforts into avoiding known risks of certain illnesses while remaining in the dark on this major killer.

I am sure the well-informed people on this site have some ideas to offer.

Edited by Gerrans, 03 March 2014 - 05:55 PM.

[extendedburn]

http://www.plosone.o...al.pone.0026943

it looks as though boswellia shrinks pancreatic tumors in mice.

I glanced the risk factors: smoking, diabetes, h.pylori infection, chronic inflammation of the pancreas, high fat diet (could be tax of lipase production? the downstream carcinogenic effects of bile?)

Layman's speculation would be to follow an anti-inflammatory diet, eat as much fat as you need to, theoretically focusing on more medium chain fats (coconut et al.) and having your chronic infections in order. Probiotic yeasts seem particularly antagonistic to h.pylori. I suspect a high-glycemic diet would cause pancreatic problems not unlike diabetes does, merely by the over-production of insulin in a state of insensitivity to it.

[Darryl]

The usual that seems to works for every other chronic disease: a low-fat, low-protein, low processed foods, whole-plant food based diet.

Nöthlings, Ute, et al. "Meat and fat intake as risk factors for pancreatic cancer: the multiethnic cohort study." Journal of the National Cancer Institute 97.19 (2005): 1458-1465.

The strongest association was with processed meat; those in the fifth quintile of daily intake (g/1000 kcal) had a 68% increased risk compared with those in the lowest quintile (relative risk = 1.68, 95% confidence interval = 1.35 to 2.07; P_trend<.01).

Li, Donghui, et al. "Dietary mutagen exposure and risk of pancreatic cancer."Cancer Epidemiology Biomarkers & Prevention 16.4 (2007): 655-661.

A significantly greater portion of the cases than controls showed a preference to well-done pork, bacon, grilled chicken, and pan-fried chicken, but not to hamburger and steak.

Chan, June M., Furong Wang, and Elizabeth A. Holly. "Whole grains and risk of pancreatic cancer in a large population-based case-control study in the San Francisco Bay Area, California." American journal of epidemiology 166.10 (2007): 1174-1185.

Persons who consumed
2 servings of whole grains daily had a lower risk of pancreatic cancer than persons who consumed <1 serving/day (odds ratio (OR) 0.60, 95% confidence interval (CI): 0.31, 1.2). Similar results were observed for brown rice (OR ¼ 0.72, 95% CI: 0.44, 1.2) and tortillas (OR ¼ 0.56, 95% CI: 0.35, 0.89). Consumption of doughnuts (
2 servings/week vs. <1 serving/month) conferred increased risk (OR ¼ 1.8, 95% CI: 1.2, 2.7). Consumption of cooked breakfast cereals (
2 servings/week vs. <1 serving/month) was positively associated with risk (for oatmeal/oat bran, OR 1.3, 95% CI: 1.0, 1.7); for other cooked breakfast cereals, OR 2.1, 95% CI: 1.4, 3.3). Dietary fiber was inversely associated with risk (for highest quartile vs. lowest, OR 0.65, 95% CI: 0.47, 0.89).

Thiébaut, Anne CM, et al. "Dietary fatty acids and pancreatic cancer in the NIH-AARP diet and health study." Journal of the National Cancer Institute 101.14 (2009): 1001-1011.

Pancreatic cancer risk was directly related to the intakes of total fat (highest vs lowest quintile, 46.8 vs 33.2 cases per 100 000 person-years, HR = 1.23, 95% CI = 1.03 to 1.46; P_trend  = .03), saturated fat (51.5 vs 33.1 cases per 100 000 person-years, HR = 1.36, 95% CI = 1.14 to 1.62; P_trend < .001), and monounsaturated fat (46.2 vs 32.9 cases per 100 000 person-years, HR = 1.22, 95% CI = 1.02 to 1.46; P_trend = .05) but not polyunsaturated fat. The associations were strongest for saturated fat from animal food sources (52.0 vs 32.2 cases per 100 000 person-years, HR = 1.43, 95% CI = 1.20 to 1.70; P_trend < .001); specifically, intakes from red meat and dairy products were both statistically significantly associated with increased pancreatic cancer risk (HR = 1.27 and 1.19, respectively).

Lucenteforte, Ersilia, et al. "Macronutrients, fatty acids, cholesterol and pancreatic cancer." European journal of cancer 46.3 (2010): 581-587.

Positive association was found for animal proteins (OR = 1.85 for the highest versus the lowest quintile of intake; 95% CI: 1.15–2.96).

Chan, June M., Furong Wang, and Elizabeth A. Holly. "Sweets, sweetened beverages, and risk of pancreatic cancer in a large population-based case–control study." Cancer causes & control 20.6 (2009): 835-846.

Among men, greater intakes of total and specific sweets were associated with pancreatic cancer risk (total sweets: OR = 1.9, 95% CI: 1.0, 3.6; sweet condiments: OR = 1.9, 95% CI: 1.2, 3.1; chocolate candy: OR = 2.4, 95% CI: 1.1, 5.0; other mixed candy bars: OR = 3.3, 95% CI: 1.5, 7.3 for 1 + servings/day versus none/rarely). Sweets were not consistently associated with risk among women. Sweetened beverages were not associated with increased pancreatic cancer risk. In contrast, low-calorie soft drinks were associated with increased risk among men only; while other low-/non-caloric beverages (e.g., coffee, tea, and water) were unassociated with risk. Of the three sugars assessed (lactose, fructose, and sucrose), only the milk sugar lactose was associated with pancreatic cancer risk (OR = 2.0, 95% CI: 1.5, 2.7 comparing extreme quartiles).

Aune, D., et al. "Body mass index, abdominal fatness and pancreatic cancer risk: a systematic review and non-linear dose–response meta-analysis of prospective studies." Annals of oncology 23.4 (2012): 843-852.

Both general and abdominal fatness increases pancreatic cancer risk. Among nonsmokers, risk increases even among persons within the normal BMI range.

You'll note your impression of BMI and pancreatic cancer risk is not substantiated by prospective studies. Steve Jobs wasn't thin when he first developed pancreatic cancer.

Edited by Darryl, 03 March 2014 - 11:41 PM.

[Florian Xavier]

http://www.thorne.co...h/prd~sf775.jsp maybe

[Gerrans]

You'll note your impression of BMI and pancreatic cancer risk is not substantiated by prospective studies. Steve Jobs wasn't thin when he first developed pancreatic cancer.

Thanks for all that. It is very complicated, though.

I admit that my onset of concern has been just through anecdotally noticing this series of people in the news getting pancreatic cancer, who all seemed to be relatively slim. I was watching an interview with Wilko only yesterday (he is still alive but has terminal pancreatic cancer), and he looks as trim as he always has (seen him play several times over the years). It is possible, I think--given their professions (music, journalism, acting, writing)--that the four British guys smoked and drank. That might be a key factor, given that both habits associate with pancreas cancer.

I suppose, given your post, that one must simply eat healthily in general and hope that this particular cancer does not find a loophole. But it bothers me that people are getting this when they do not have diabetes, heart disease, etc. I wonder what made them vulnerable to that particular danger.

Edited by Gerrans, 03 March 2014 - 11:42 PM.

[Gerrans]

http://www.thorne.co...h/prd~sf775.jsp maybe

Has anyone tried it?

Edited by Gerrans, 03 March 2014 - 11:41 PM.

[Florian Xavier]

It's curcumin

http://www.ncbi.nlm....pubmed/24023285

http://www.ncbi.nlm....pubmed/19003584

http://www.ncbi.nlm....pubmed/18628464

[Luminosity]

Pancreatin, Nature's Plus brand, on an empty stomach. This brand is the most potent because it is enteric coated. It is also fresh and contains what it says it does. Also, don't smoke and eat right. Don't expose yourself to too much radiation from technology if you can help it.

Edited by Luminosity, 06 March 2014 - 06:08 AM.

[username]

Nigella sativa

http://www.ncbi.nlm....pubmed/19768141

[theconomist]

Some cancers simply can't be prevented the way we want, we'll have to trust the researchers on this one and hope they figure something out. Right now as was said the best way to reduce your risk is to continue doing what you're doing.

[Gerrans]

Nigella sativa

http://www.ncbi.nlm....pubmed/19768141

 

I have been eating this every day since I followed up your information. Many thanks.

 

Here is an inexpensive seed which is very easy to incorporate in food. I am using the seed mixture panch phoran, which, if anyone does not know, is a most delicious herbal mix, consisting of the whole seeds fenugreek, fennel, cumin, mustard, and nigella sativa. To be more accurate, I am now making my own version of panch phoran (which I call my "seed punch") without the fenugreek seeds (which are a bit hard) but with caraway seed and rosemary.

 

According to one thing I read, nigella seed oil had a place in Tutankhamun's tomb. So if It was good enough for King Tut, it is good enough for me. (Not that he is quite the role model for a longevity forum.)
 

Edited by Gerrans, 26 June 2014 - 06:43 PM.

[ZHMike]

http://www.scienceal...1606-25685.html  just get a bionic one

[rwac]

Apparently aspirin does, what a timely question.

http://well.blogs.ny...ref=health&_r=0
 

 

In a five-year study, published online in Cancer Epidemiology, Biomarkers & Prevention, researchers compared aspirin use in 362 pancreatic cancer patients with 690 randomly chosen controls. Participants were asked about past and present regular use of aspirin, defined as at least once a week for three months.

 

After controlling for age, sex, race, smoking, diabetes and other variables, the researchers found that regular aspirin use lowered the risk for pancreatic cancer by 48 percent.

 

Edited by rwac, 26 June 2014 - 07:18 PM.

[Darryl]

That case-control study probably overestimates the benefits.

 

A 2014 meta-analysis of 10 studies found a 12% (all studies) or 30% (prospective cohort) reduction in risk, and only for high dose aspirin, in line with past studies of aspirin and cancer risk.

 

Personally, I take 1 x 82 mg baby aspirin and 2 x 467 mg magnesium salicylate daily, as equivalent salicylate in all aspirin resulted in alarmingly fast blood donation.

Edited by Darryl, 26 June 2014 - 07:41 PM.

[Gerrans]

I have just been poking around in various papers, and it seems that:

 

Thymoquinone, a significant compound in nigella sativa seed, is found to reduce a certain strain of periodontitis bacteria called Porphyrymonas gingivalis. Now, separately, I noticed that this strain of oral bacteria has been proposed as a warning sign of pancreatic cancer (see Michaud et al,"Plasma antibodies to oral bacteria and risk of pancreatic cancer in a large European prospective cohort study", Gut, 2012).

 

*

I had been wondering if my eating of the seeds might be a feeble gesture compared to paying out lots of money for concentrated oils and extracts. And it is no doubt true that many of these tiny seeds must go through the digestive system whole. However, I do enjoy chewing my seeds--and you can palpably feel their cleansing effect in the mouth--so it makes sense to me that they might be doing my gums good. A capsule of nigella sativa extract, however, might plunge straight down the hatch without the chance of having this effect.

 

Why would this seed bother to destroy oral bacteria? I guess it evolved to cope with the fact that, being so tiny and angular, it would inevitably get caught in the teeth of the animals that eat it.

 

*

 

One other point that encourages me about nigella is that it is a vigorous and hardy grower. It self seeds around my garden willingly and will shoot and survive even while the frosts are still about. It is evident to me that the hardier and more resistant the plant, the likelier it is to be medicinally useful. Nigella is too pretty to be a weed, but it grows like one--and weeds often make the best herbs, because of the potent defence systems they possess.

Edited by Gerrans, 26 June 2014 - 09:07 PM.

[Kalliste]

I'm surprised nobody brought up green tea.

 

http://www.scienceda...40530133214.htm

 

 

A new study explains how green tea changed the metabolism of pancreatic cancer cells, opening a new area in cancer-fighting research. Green tea and its extracts have been widely touted as potential treatments for cancer, as well as several other diseases. But scientists have struggled to explain how the green tea and its extracts may work to reduce the risk of cancer or to slow the growth of cancer cells.

 

http://www.sciencedi...877782112001130

 

 

Conclusions: Habits of green tea drinking, including regular drinking, amount of consumption, persistence of the habit, and tea temperature, may lower pancreatic cancer risk.

 

And nuts

 

 

CONCLUSION:

Frequent nut consumption is inversely associated with risk of pancreatic cancer in this large prospective cohort of women, independent of other potential risk factors for pancreatic cancer.

http://www.ncbi.nlm....pubmed/24149179

http://www.dailymail...risk-third.html

[Gerrans]

I noticed that the actor John Hurt was recently diagnosed with pancreatic cancer. Of course, he is in his seventies, so he is liable to become ill with something sooner or later. But another thin celebrity. Hurt was notorious for his drinking and he smoked. He has what sounds to me like a smoker's voice. He says he gave up the fags and drink a while ago, but you never know.

 

I am not quite sure how smoking might affect the pancreas (and why that organ rather than the lungs, throat, or whatever). But I am intrigued by the way the pancreas apparently takes early notice from the mouth as to what peptides, etc., it might need to release for digestion. Perhaps O, NO, or something is involved in such signalling and therefore can carry carcinogens or bad bacteria down from the mouth by mysterious means.

 

I still have my nigella sativa every day, and I do not smoke (and rarely drink), so I am hoping these measures might help preserve me against ambush by diseases of the pancreas.

 

*

 

I only just found out that my nurse sister works on a ward which deals with pancreas diseases, and she confirms that pancreas cancer is one of the most difficult of the common cancers to treat.

Edited by Gerrans, 16 June 2015 - 07:12 PM.

[Matt]

Pancreatic cancer can develop over 20 years or so... And therefore many people probably quit these bad lifestyle habits too late... 

[Kalliste]

What is this obsession with them being thin? If you are old, smoke and drank for most of your life (and probably, did not even care to take the slightest notice of the kind of lifestyle changes we debate on a board like this) then you might get cancer and die. You will get something and die. The chances are overwhelming for someone in their 70's.

 

Hell cancer is the kind of thing that can strike anyone, I've seen athletes in their 30's with great habits wither away to melanoma.

[Gerrans]

It is not so much an obsession as that I am trying to do my best to be as healthy as possible, which includes being thin, in order to live as long as I can. So I am interested in doing what I can to head off the things that kill thin people too. I find these celebrity deaths informative, because we can trace their lifestyles somewhat, which may (or may not) give a clue why they became victims of pancreatic cancer.

 

*

 

Two additional remarks on these celebrities:

 

I had assumed that Steve Jobs was an exception to the smoking circumstance (because he was notoriously fanatical about health), but, on looking closer, I found that he used to smoke weed and hash in the seventies. That is rather a long time ago, but they were probably big old cigarettes.

 

And, astonishingly, Wilko Johnson survived--despite saying on the news that he had only a few months to live. According to the BBC:

 

Former Dr Feelgood guitarist Wilko Johnson has said he has been "cured" of the terminal pancreatic cancer with which he was diagnosed in 2012. The 67-year-old was initially given 10 months to live after rejecting chemotherapy, but had radical surgery to remove the tumour earlier this year. "It was an 11-hour operation," he said at the Q Awards in London."This tumour weighed 3kg - that's the size of a baby," he continued. "Anyway, they got it all. They cured me." The guitarist went on his "farewell tour" in 2013 and recorded an album with The Who's Roger Daltrey. "I thought that was going to be the last thing I ever did," he told BBC News entertainment correspondent Colin Paterson after the ceremony on Wednesday.Then, at the end of last year, a doctor got in touch and said "something strange" was going on because he was still alive.

 

I am so pleased for him. And it is a reminder to me not to assume that because mortality from pancreatic cancer is so high that it is automatically fatal.

 

[proileri]

I am not quite sure how smoking might affect the pancreas (and why that organ rather than the lungs, throat, or whatever). But I am intrigued by the way the pancreas apparently takes early notice from the mouth as to what peptides, etc., it might need to release for digestion. Perhaps O, NO, or something is involved in such signalling and therefore can carry carcinogens or bad bacteria down from the mouth by mysterious means.

 

I still have my nigella sativa every day, and I do not smoke (and rarely drink), so I am hoping these measures might help preserve me against ambush by diseases of the pancreas.

 

*

 

I only just found out that my nurse sister works on a ward which deals with pancreas diseases, and she confirms that pancreas cancer is one of the most difficult of the common cancers to treat.

 

Smoking affects the whole gastrointernal tract, even down to the urinary bladder. There was an article just now in JAMA IM about how many % of certain cancers can be attributed directly to smoking - with pancreatic cancer, smoking is attributable in 12% of the cases. http://archinte.jama...ticleid=2301375

 

I also have a family friend who passed due to PC. I have understood that the pancreatic cancer is so difficult because it's hard to notice - pancreas is pretty well hidden in the middle of stomach. Same goes for liver cancer. If you're worried, one option might be annual screening after your 50's using MRI etc., but of course this costs a lot of money. 

 

There are some nutrients that affect the cancer risk in general, though. NK cells are the first line of defense against early cancer cells, and foods like garlic, spirulina and blueberries have some research suggesting that they might increase NK cell numbers a bit.

 

In addition, exercise also boosts immune function against cancer - there's a noticeable decrease in cancer risk for people who do regular exercise.     

Edited by proileri, 01 August 2015 - 02:23 PM.

[resveratrol_guy]

It looks like we should add emodin to the list of suspected anti-pancreatic-cancer supplements, based on this in vitro study from 2012 that doesn't seem to have been mentioned here. Emodin has historically been considered an annoyance to consumers of cheap, widely available resveratrol sourced from Polygonum cuspidatum, as it creates some degree of stomach upset. Maybe all that dyspepsia is really the result of this very bitter compound being released into the stomach (and presumably leaking into the pancreatic duct). I've experienced it myself, but not with synthetic resveratrol.

 

In other news, we now have a urine test which differentiates between cancerous and noncancerous individuals. Even CA19-9 doesn't do this faithfully, as it can be elevated sporadically for other reasons. Obviously the next question is: how soon in the evolution of the disease does this difference occur? We don't know yet. In any event, it seems to be established science at this point that pancreatic cancer evolves over several years, but is so fatal only because the symtoms appear very late in the process. Still, try taking an annual abdominal MRI (with contrast) and watch how your insurance company freaks out. So much for dianostic imaging. (I do NOT recommend CT scan except in life-threatening situations, as it's only a few percent more competent than the latest MRI technology at detecting tumors, and involves ionizing radiation, but that's a whole other thread.)

 

And for the sake of consolidation, this thread discusses the anticancer role of propanolol, while this one disucsses N-acetyl-L-cysteine.

 

Preventing pancreatic cancer is clearly important in its own right. But doing so successfully might enable us to overcome the pancreatic problems with oxaloacetate, allowing us to reap the benefits more safely.

 

[Gerrans]

Sir John Hurt has said he is “thrilled” to reveal he has been given the all-clear by doctors less than four months after revealing he was diagnosed with pancreatic cancer. The 75-year-old made the announcement at the Man Booker prize ceremony in London.

“I had a final scan and it’s all gone brilliantly,” he told the Daily Mail. “I am overjoyed, I am thrilled."

 

Well I never!

[resveratrol_guy]

Adding moringa oleifera to the list. Overview here. Full text here.

[resveratrol_guy]

The new circulating tumor cell (CTC) test seems to shave clinically significant time off of diagnosis. Hopefully it will be approved for wider use soon, or moved overseas so people can just take the test without having to wait through years of insurance BS first.

 

Edited by resveratrol_guy, 30 November 2015 - 11:03 PM.

[aconita]

Nigella seeds are prone to not be digested due to their hard shell, the way to go is to grind them (I use a blades type coffee grinder) in order to obtain a powder (which, by the way, releases much more taste to dishes).

 

Chewing the seeds may tend to stain teeth of black after a while (and it needs a lot of chewing to make sure all the shells are properly crushed)

 

Once in powder form Nigella's oils are exposed to air and oxidation is an issue, it is better to grind only relatively small amounts (like enough for a couple of weeks) and keep it in a sealed small glass jar in the fridge, unless one prefers to grind it fresh every time, of course.

 

Great stuff!!!

 

Gerson diet therapy seems quite effective for pancreatic cancer, to someone particularly concerned (diabetics, for example) it may be worth a Gerson diet run once in a while (once or twice a year, maybe), just in case. 

 

 

[resveratrol_guy]

Gerson diet therapy seems quite effective for pancreatic cancer, to someone particularly concerned (diabetics, for example) it may be worth a Gerson diet run once in a while (once or twice a year, maybe), just in case. 

 

It does? You mean as a treatment or as a preventative? Any references?

 

I must say it's impressive how such a high-sugar diet can be so healthful for its practitioners. For evidence of this, look no further than 91-year-old (now 92) Charlotte Gerson herself, who as you can see in this public speaking video shot just this year, has no obvious signs of physical or mental disease. (I'm only holding out the video as evidence of the longterm potential of this diet, not as a statement of agreement or disagreement with her assertions, although her argument is worth listening to.)

 

BTW great tips about grinding up Nigella. I'll have to get out the old mortar-and-pestel...

Edited by resveratrol_guy, 04 December 2015 - 05:54 PM.

[fntms]

Why not use Nigella sativa oil directly? It can be found as a supplement or (much cheaper) at your local Arabic food shop. I take 2x 500mg (about 2x0.5ml) per day and it seems to help with inflammation and pain from arthritis. I will take just 500mg per day after a while, for cancer prevention.

[aconita]

I am not an expert about Gerson therapy, I have got a few books but never found the time to really read them.

 

What I know is that it claims to be a cure for most cancers and pancreatic cancer is one that seems to respond relatively well to it (if taken in early enough stages, which unfortunately seldom is the case).

 

My reasoning is that since most cancers are asymptomatic in the early stages (pancreatic been one of those) a couple of runs a year on Gerson diet may fix things we are not aware of yet before it becomes too late, in other words if something nasty is about to develop maybe it will be stopped on its track, in that sense it may be used as a preventative. 

 

It is just a suggestion, an idea that may be worth looking at for those particularly concerned, I will not suggest to use Gerson therapy as a nutritional everyday habit.

 

I don't suggest Gerson therapy as a sure cure or preventative for cancer but rather that it is worth some attention since it cost nothing, it will not be anything particularly difficult or uncomfortable and it seems backed up by a good amount of clinical evidence.

 

Nigella oil is a very good alternative to seeds, I just like to use the seeds' powder to garnish food for its taste.

 

One possible issue with Nigella oil may be oxidation since it seems quite prone to it, small bottles, always fresh, kept in the fridge should help with that.

 

This too may be of interest:

 

http://www.longecity...ate-and-cancer/

[resveratrol_guy]

Why not use Nigella sativa oil directly? It can be found as a supplement or (much cheaper) at your local Arabic food shop. I take 2x 500mg (about 2x0.5ml) per day and it seems to help with inflammation and pain from arthritis. I will take just 500mg per day after a while, for cancer prevention.

 

In principle I think this is a better plan than messing around with tiny seeds at the cost of extensive labor. But what's the solvent used to extract it? Hexane? Ethyl acetate? Who knows? How much is left in the oil?

Edited by resveratrol_guy, 05 December 2015 - 12:31 AM.