16 replies to this topic

[Heraclitus]

Heraclitus’ adjunctive supplementation stack for psychosis/schizophrenia and general mental health, emphasis on brain repair and alleviation of positive symptoms*

 

Research:

 

- L-Lysine 6g/d (positive/prepulse inhibition) 1, 2

- N-Acetylcysteine 1-2g/d (negative/extrapyramidal) 1, 2

- Sarcosine 1-2g/d (positive/negative) 1, 2

- Sodium Benzoate/DAAO Inhibitor 1g/d (positive/negative/cognitive) 1

- L-Theanine 400mg/d (positive/anxiety) 1, 2, 3

- Pregnenolone 30-100mg/d (positive/negative/cognitive) 1, 2, 3

- Methylfolate 2mg/d + Methylcobalamin 400micrograms/d (negative) or Methylfolate 15mg/d 1, 2

- Gingko Biloba 120-360mg/d (positive/negative/extrapyramidal/cognitive) 1, 2, 3, 4

- PDE4 Inhibitors/Artichoke Extract (positive) 1

- Aspirin 900-1000mg/d (positive) 1

- Eliminate Sugar from diet and/or Gluten-free Ketogenic Diet  1

 

- Niacin 1-3g/d 1

- Vitamin B6 1

- Vitamin C 1

- Vitamin D 1, 2

- Magnesium 1

- Selenium (extrapyramidal) 1, 2

- Zinc

- Melatonin 10mg/d 1

- Lithium 1

- Aniracetam 200mg/d (cognitive) 1

- PQQ (cognitive) 1

- Cerebrolysin (negative/cognitive) 1

- EPA 2g/d (but not during acute stage, 1) 1

- Creatine 5g/d increases available SAMe and lowers homocysteine concentrations. Intervention studies report benefit of creatine treatment for depression and PTSD.

- Honokiol/GABA Agonists & Positive Allosteric Modulators  1, 2, 3, 4, 5

- Gotu Kola “Centella Asiatica”  (cognitive/anxiety) - attenuates glutamate-induced cognitive deficits. 1

- Baicalin or Pramiracetam - prolyl oligopeptidase inhibitor 1

 

- Glycine 1-30g/d 1

- Dimethylglycine - DMG is metabolized in the liver into sarcosine.

- Trimethylglycine 3g/dose – lowers homocysteine plasma concentrations, anti-depressant.

- DHEA 400mg/d (extrapyramidal) 1

- COX-2 inhibitors (positive) 1

- D-alanine 5g/d or 100 mg/kg/d (positive/negative/cognitive) 1

 

Yokukansan (rhynchophylline, Hirsutine, Hirsuteine) - 1, 2

Bacopa - 1

Ashwaganda “Withania Somnifera” (extrapyramidal) 1

Lions Mane/Myelination

- CBD (positive) 1

 

Resolvin, Lipoxin – EPA or DHA + Aspirin

Leptin - Higher serum leptin levels are associated with less severe SZ positive symptoms.  1, 2

 

· - Please note, all of the supplements were taken as adjuncts to olanzapine. The dose for the olanzapine has gone from 20mg/day to 2.5mg/day over the last 20 months. This has been a long and slow process. My experience is that there are no quick fixes. These are only anecdotal observations. The primary concern has been positive symptoms and these have been reduced by over 95% in the last year and a half.

 

Effective:

 

- N-Acetylcysteine was the first thing out of many that I tried. This is what convinced me that there were supplements that could help out. It reduced positive symptoms within hours by 30%. It did make feel a little spacey but in an entirely manageable way. I take 1g/day.

- L-Lysine has helped me. It reduced positive symptoms and also somewhat relieved a slight but nagging pressure headache. It also seems to help a little with anxiety. I take 2-3g/day.

- Sarcosine works well for me if only in a subtle way. A little less depressed, a little more organized, less rumination. I take 1g/day.

- Sodium Benzoate is a lot like NAC. It significantly reduces positive symptoms. It also makes me feel a bit duller but nothing that isn’t tolerable. It’s actually a nice feeling unless I’m in a situation where I have to quick and snappy, then it’s a slight hindrance. I take 900mg/day.

- L-Theanine helps out with anxiety. Positive symptoms seem more like background noise rather than something that should be worried about. I take 1g/day.

- Pregnenolone seems to help with anxiety. Other than that it’s hard for me to tell. I take 100mg/day.

- Methylfolate + Methylcobalamin gives me a little energy and a clearer head. I take 2mg/day and 400ug/day, respectively.

- Gingko Biloba seems to help with cognition. It’s also supposed to help repair VMAT2. I take 240mg/day.

- Artichoke Extract helps with LTP. 1200mg/day (6% extract caffeoylquinic acid).

- Aspirin I take 160mg/day. I’m not sure if it helps with any symptoms but it’s probably good for my heart. Combines with the Omega-3 EPA.

- Eliminate Sugar from diet and/or Gluten-free Ketogenic Diet, this has been interesting. I didn’t notice that much change from being on a ketogenic diet for 4 months, probably because of all the varied supplementation. After going off it symptoms got worse. I went back on the diet and then I noticed symptoms improving. 

 

Minimally/Possibly effective:

 

- Niacin gives me a minimal flush which I find mildly stimulating. Can’t say how much it helps. 2g/day.

- Vitamin B6 50mg/day.

- Vitamin C 500mg/day.

- Vitamin D 400ug/day.

- Magnesium Malate 425mg/day.

- Selenium has to be supplemented with NAC. 200ug/day.

- Zinc 25mg/day.

- Melatonin 10mg/day.

- Lithium 5mg/day (Lithium Orotate). May help with mood. May help with neurogenesis.

- Aniracetam 200mg/prn.

- PQQ helps with cognition, I take 20mg/day. I also take CoQ10 100mg/day and use LED therapy on my left DLPFC.

- Cerebrolysin I have taken 3 courses of Memoprove. Don’t know if it helped.

- EPA 1g/day

- Creatine 5g/d increases available SAMe and lowers homocysteine concentrations. Intervention studies report benefit of creatine treatment for depression and PTSD. Seems to boost energy.

- Honokiol gives me a slight pressure headache, doesn’t help with symptoms but definitely anxiolytic.

 - Gotu Kola “Centella Asiatica” doesn’t help with symptoms but is calming. Gave me a headache.

- Baicalin 400mg/day, not sure what it’s doing but it doesn’t seem to be hurting.

- Pramiracetam helps with cognition but borders on making me hypomanic.

 

- Glycine 3g/day before bedtime, helps with sleep.

- Dimethylglycine 125mg/day before bedtime.

- Trimethylglycine 1g/day before bedtime.

- DHEA I tried this at 25mg and 50mg, didn’t like it, made me feel slightly spacey and hypomanic.

- COX-2 inhibitors a Tylenol 500mg before bed sometimes helps.

- D-alanine haven’t tried this, don’t know where to acquire it. Any leads would be appreciated.

 

Yokukansan (rhynchophylline, Hirsutine, Hirsuteine) – have tried Uncaria rhynchophylla, it was calming and seemed to alleviate some positive symptoms but it gave me a pressure headache. Haven’t tried it since.

Bacopa – Makes me feel spacey and wired, gives me a headache. Will try it again when I take other things off the stack.

Ashwaganda “Withania Somnifera” definitely anxiolytic. Can’t say it helps with symptoms.

Lions Mane - I have cycled this three times, 30 days on and 30 days off. Seems to give me a burst of energy. Can’t say that it helps with symptoms in the short term but I’m a big believer that the possible re-myelination is worth sticking with it.

- CBD (positive) tried this, made me feel spacey and disoriented, haven’t tried since.

 

Resolvin, Lipoxin – EPA or DHA + Aspirin, one reason to take aspirin with fish oil. Resolvin and lipoxin are supposed to be good for repairing the brain.

Leptin - Higher serum leptin levels are associated with less severe SZ positive symptoms.  Any ideas on how to use this piece of info would be appreciated.

 

Good general articles:

A REVIEW OF ANTI-INFLAMMATORY AGENTS FOR SYMPTOMS OF SCHIZOPHRENIA

PMCID: PMC3641824, J Psychopharmacol April 2013 vol. 27 no. 4 337-342

 

Oxidative/Nitrosative Stress and Immuno-inflammatory Pathways in Depression: Treatment Implications.

PMID: 24180395, Curr Pharm Des. 2013 Oct 28

 

A Critical Review of Pro-Cognitive Drug Targets in Psychosis: Convergence on Myelination and Inflammation

PMID: 24550848, Front Psychiatry. 2014 Feb 4;5:11. eCollection 2014.

 

 

Edited by Heraclitus, 06 March 2014 - 09:01 AM.

[username]

I take many things you take as well:
magnesium, vit D, zinc, methylfolate and -cobalamin, NAC (with selenium), l-theanine, ginkgo, sarcosine, EPA, lithium

additionally to that, I currently take curcumin, green tea extract, SAMe, saffron, ashwagandha and I started taking nigella sativa.

Thank you for all the research

Have you tried a higher dosage of sarcosine? What's really missing is a dosage study for sarcosine I take 3g/day, no particular reason though.
I noticed that I get tired faster/more easily and have some muscle pains - could be from the saffron as well though (30mg). I started taking that a couple of days ago as well.

edit: I don't take any antipsychotics. I became sick around a year ago and started with all the interventions a few months ago. I think that this 'early' intervention has saved me. Not entirely cured yet, but I'm mostly normal again which is nice. It's awful to have to worry about having hallucinations.

Edited by longschi, 06 March 2014 - 09:11 AM.

[Heraclitus]

There's this article - http://www.ncbi.nlm....pubmed/24523591

"After obtaining an informed consent, we started administration of 2 g of sarcosine per day to treat persistent negative and cognitive symptoms. The patient's activity and mood improved within 2 weeks, but in the following 2 weeks the patient reported increased drive, activity, libido, unpleasant inner tension, and irritability. We ruled out hypomania and decided to decrease the daily dose of sarcosine to 1 g, which resulted in reduction of drive and irritability. Activity and mood improved compared with his state before adding sarcosine. We suggest a sarcosine dose between 1 g and 2 g per day with an initial dose of 2 g, but if side effects occur, the dose should be decreased to 1 g per day."

Thanks longschi, this thread was inspired by your thread! I thought I might as well put all my anecdotal experience and research resources in one big post.

[username]

Thank you for that. I will decrease dosage to 1.5g
I did notice an increased irritability on the first day I took it. I actually had a fight on that day and felt that the sarcosine was partly responsible.
I mean - if a higher dosage works better and has more side effects - it might still be worth it. But until there is a good dosage study out there, it's probably best for me to decrease the amount I take. And it's cheaper.

I think this forum is great. There are so many crazy experimenters here which makes me feel entirely normal

[Heraclitus]

I think this forum is great. There are so many crazy experimenters here which makes me feel entirely normal

The crazy is a great motivator. So is desperation! Also, I do feel as if I need to give back and try to help with the knowledge and experienced I've gained from this forum and the research I've done that was inspired by posts here. Take care!

[abcmanomandriepunt1]

Hey, that's a big stack you got!

I take a lot of same supps as well and found NAC also extremely effective, i take 2.4 gram. i also do LED therapy, eat a ketogenic diet, and i'm also on olanzapine 2.5/5mg. I take olanzapine mostly for cognitive function and as a mood stabilizer. I would watch out with going off the olanzapine, cause you have a lot of psychoactive substances that might cause mood swings/hypomania/anxiety if your of the olanzapine.

Some other suggestions for brain function : coconut oil (probably already in your diet), kurkuma, kelp and ALCAR,

[Heraclitus]

Hey, that's a big stack you got!

I take a lot of same supps as well and found NAC also extremely effective, i take 2.4 gram. i also do LED therapy, eat a ketogenic diet, and i'm also on olanzapine 2.5/5mg. I take olanzapine mostly for cognitive function and as a mood stabilizer. I would watch out with going off the olanzapine, cause you have a lot of psychoactive substances that might cause mood swings/hypomania/anxiety if your of the olanzapine.

Some other suggestions for brain function : coconut oil (probably already in your diet), kurkuma, kelp and ALCAR,

I do take a tablespoon of MCT oil with c60 a few times a week. I have taken curcumin but it feels uncomfortably serotonergic. I also have a washout day every 2 weeks where I only take NAC, Sarcosine, Lysine, Sodium Benzoate and Lithium. I feel pretty good on the washout day but on the second day start to feel weak and janky so I only take one day off.

[abcmanomandriepunt1]

whats your experience with c60? i'm gonna try it soon, do you notice anything?

[Heraclitus]

whats your experience with c60? i'm gonna try it soon, do you notice anything?

No effect on symptoms. It doesn't seem to interact with anything either. It boosted my cardio/exercise endurance and I like the Baati rat studies.
I guess in the end that taking a substance that makes it easier to be fitter does ultimately benefit the brain according to recent studies...

How Fat May Hurt the Brain, and How Exercise May Help - http://well.blogs.ny...elp/?ref=health

[YoungSchizo]

Thanks for the extensive sharing Heraclitus +1

This is very interesting about Pregnenolone: Another pilot randomized placebo controlled 7 week trial (N=35) found significant improvement in negative symptoms, verbal memory

I'm almost like 8/9 months on Pregnenolone on dosages ranging from 50mg up to 300mg (right now I'm on 200mg and 50mg micronized Preg). Now that I read this, Preg might be the supplement that restored my vocabulary drastically (I already had a wide vocabulary range but it got lost together with going haywire), when I write things down it goes fluently, I got very witty sharp in (chat) conversations, I recall words that I once totally forgot but remember again, also, on days when I'm "totally" symptom free this also counts for spoken language (way less though, I guess Clonazepam is one of the reasons and spoken language is another part of the brain that need some support/repairs). I still struggle now and then with disorganized writing (mainly speaking) but damn, now that I'm looking back at the period I started with Preg and now, Preg might be the substance that has changed me on this and I'm still improving!

Other positive effects of Preg:
Good mood enhancer
Muscle growth (I gained around 8KG muscle mass)
Improvement of muscle strength
Very high stamina improvement
Fast muscle recovery
What it did mentally, especially negatives and cognitives I can't really tell because I already was on Mirtazapine & Sarcosine for negatives and Clonazepam really is a cognitive killer when it's fully in my system (like right now). On the other hand, don't know if this should fall under mood or negatives, before Preg I had many days/weeks I struggled with (just) the idea to go to the gym, see other people and do my workout, now however, I MUST go to the gym, time flies by when working out, if I don't go I get really stressed/cranky! (I turned back to the old me on this one, into a endorphin junkie, but hey, endorphin's are naturally good for mental health )

[Heraclitus]

YoungSchizo, that's good to hear!

It's always interesting to hear what other people are getting out of these supplements, good and bad. Nice to hear that pregnenolone helped you. It seems to have helped me out too. The amount of new options for treatment and the research that is going on, along with all of the quality information that is out there, is very encouraging to me. I'm glad I could share what I've found and hope others will be able to build upon it just as I did.

[Heraclitus]

Anyone have any idea what this is?

Warm-Supplementing Kidney Yang - http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/19786416

Looks interesting but I'm not sure what the ingredients are.

[Heraclitus]

In the last three days I've been experimenting with:

320mg Aspirin
500mg Acetaminophen

taken an hour before bed time. Seems to have a very positive effect on sleep quality and to reduce positive symptoms the next day.


Also, this looks quite interesting:

Polygala tenuifolia - 1, 2, 3

I've starting taking this in the morning. It is sedating. It reduces anxiety and also seems to diminish positive symptoms. The sedation may be mildly increasing the cognitive symptoms but the tradeoff for less anxiety and AVH's is worth it for now.

[szninja]

Very informative post.

 

I would add galantamine to the list. It is an acetylcholinesterase inhibitor as well as a positive allosteric modulator of nicotinic acetylcholine receptors. I felt even better after I added it to my cocktail of sz supplements.

[Sciencyst]

Very nice and well researched!

I would just like to point out that you have many items that conflict with  sarcosine . Remember, sarcosine is a glycine reuptake inhibitor, so it increases NMDA activation i.e. agonism. The f ollowing may potentially cancel our or merely weaken sarcosine's effects as they are NMDA antagonists; l-theanine, magnesium, honokiol/magnolol, & ginkgo biloba.

 

Also make sure to keep the Vitamin B6 dosage really low as even 50mg and up can cause some nasty toxicity. Please read the Wikipedia summary of its toxicity

[medievil]

Sarcosine acts on the glycine receptors which is inhibitory, the opposite as to what nmda does, if i would beleive those sups would have significant enough nmda antagonism, they dont really interfere with the effect of sarcosine.

In the last three days I've been experimenting with:

320mg Aspirin
500mg Acetaminophen

taken an hour before bed time. Seems to have a very positive effect on sleep quality and to reduce positive symptoms the next day.


Also, this looks quite interesting:

Polygala tenuifolia - 1, 2, 3

I've starting taking this in the morning. It is sedating. It reduces anxiety and also seems to diminish positive symptoms. The sedation may be mildly increasing the cognitive symptoms but the tradeoff for less anxiety and AVH's is worth it for now.

If you want to target inflammation then take meriva which is a long acting version of curcumin, which acts on 100 inflammatory pathways or so in contrast to aspiring.

[szninja]

Any updates on new treatments for schiz? i heard gts-21 is pretty good.