86 replies to this topic

[eon]

I read that people aren't seeing much results with vitamin C because due to their dosages very low (1000mg max). I've read that it can be taken up to 100g for infectious disease. I've only taken as much as 5g for a day when I was feeling sick and pretty much was cured by the next day. I read vitamin C can lower cortisol as well amongst other things. Just wondering had I been taking 5g daily continuously what would the results be. It does give diarrhea at certain dosage. I usually split mines per gram, but currently I take 1.5 g twice daily so 3g daily total. No diarrhea. I take the ascorbic acid version but will change it to a buffered or fat soluble version soon once my supply is done.

Edited by eon, 09 March 2014 - 09:02 AM.

[AOLministrator]

100g are borderline poisonous. ( 11.9g/kg is LD50 in rats, no human data ) I doubt that anyone ever ate that much. And rest assured, it would make you feel very sick. It is over a thousand times the RDA ...

I already get digestive issues from 1-4g in a single dose. I eat the stuff in arbitrary 300-800mg doses 2-5 times during the day, whenever and however I feel like it. Vitamin C is excreted very fast, that's why you should rather take a lot of small doses during the day in between and not after meals. You can also put it into your drink, but since it is an acid it isn't ideal for your teeth.

I found it helps a little bit even if you aren't nutritionally deficient. But too much is just too much. Your body will tell you that pretty clearly. Just listen to it for optimum amounts. I often take way too much, just like salt, you always pour out more than you actually need and then you don't want to discard the excess.

Also I am a heavy smoker and I got the impression that the more I smoke, the more it will be an (immediate) improvement to take a lot of vitamin C. I found zero long-term effects despite living healthy in terms of nutrition. My diet is healthy but somewhat vitamin C deficient, because it consists mostly of animal products. If I ate half a lemon in the morning and half a lemon in the evening it would probably be irrelevant to take any supplemented vitamin C at all. But lemons mess up your teeth more than anything else, can't recommend that to anyone.

Edited by Aolministrator, 09 March 2014 - 12:00 PM.

[Gerrans]

I take 2 or 3 1g tablets a day, which is supposedly a high dose (but I doubt that). I do not notice any effect from it--but if I stop taking it I get blood in my toothpaste spit or on my floss tape--something I previously had all my life, even in childhood. So I think Vitamin C does do some good on the quiet.

I am not into megadosing Vitamin C, per Linus Pauling and co. I do not see the point. I have had only the most muted of colds and flu since I have been taking Vitamin C tablets; but I have also improved my diet and supplements in many other ways too, so I do not particularly ascribe this to Vitamin C--though I hope it helps.

Edited by Gerrans, 09 March 2014 - 03:24 PM.

[abcmanomandriepunt1]

this might sound wierd, but when i was taking high dosis of vitamin c (4g) i definetely was feeling some psychological effect in context of improving my ocd like thoughts. I think the ocd thoughts i got (and i only got them around people, not if i'm by myself) are cortisol related and that the vitamin c lowered my cortisol, so therefore it had this very pleasant effect . But my adrenals started to ache, pretty badly and because of that i decided to lower te dose. now i take only 1g, cause i need to be carefull with supplements that influence my adrenals that are shot to pieces.

[pamojja]

My personal beneficial experiences with mega-dosing Vitamin C is related in this post:

• Vitamin C (after a PAD diagnosis almost 5 years ago, together with lysine and all other nutrients recommended by Linus Pauling) - pain-free walking distance improved from mere 3-400 meters up to 2 hours. But only once I exceeded the in his view minimal therapeutic dose of 6g/d. Side-benefits: a since 2 years persistent skin-rush cleared up, hay-fewer symptoms recurring every spring since 12 years got alleviated (though this year it took 30 g/d; in avg. about 20 g/d for 5 years). HbA1c stayed unproportionally low, compared to rising blood glucose. Truly addictive stuff for someone with my health-issues...

[eon]

Tyler that's interesting regarding OCD and vitamin C on how it did you good. I think I had very high cortisol in my teens when my OCD showed up. I worked out hard very pumped up yet never supplemented to lower the cortisol which was raised due to stress and over-training in the gym IMO. I just did 2g just now of vitamin C. My observation is before when I took 1g I'd get diarrhea was due to having just eaten dairy (milk, etc.). I drink non dairy milk now. No diarrhea. Another thing is when I drink fruit juices with vitamin C already then I take a 1 g vitamin C, I'd get diarrhea. I stopped the fruit juices for now mainly cranberry juice. Not sure if it was too much acid altogether.

Pamojja, my OCD has lessened just this past week. I'm sure my 18g inositol had something to do with it but I had also raised my vitamin C from 1 g twice daily to 1.5 g twice daily. Currently stepped it to 2 g twice daily, might go for 3 g twice daily soon. I just tried some lysine as well usually with arginine only on workout days. Not sure what cystine could do but I have the powders for it but haven't tried yet. I was looking into inosine but could not find it nor do I know what its purpose if important.

Regarding the high dose 100g vitamin C, it's not recommended but I read that it's only for infectious diseases. 100g split several times daily of course, not one dose. From what I understand since it is water soluble anything the body does not need gets excreted, so you can't "OD" on vitamin C, unless it's fat soluble? Would the non acid version of vitamin C be better off since it is buffered, even at high dosage (6 g minimum daily)?

[stponky]

Yeah, vitamin C plus zinc has been shown to reduce the symptoms (but not duration) of colds. Outside of colds, I have tried taking ~2 grams of vitamin C. It seemed like it was helpful. I usually plow through a bottle of vitamin C when I have it and then forget about vitamin C for a while.

[Luminosity]

I take 750 mg. of C divided into four doses. I take Swansons Ascorbyl Palmitate capsules with something containing fat or oil, and American Health Ester C in capsules with no bioflavonoids. The last would be good to take with foods containing vitamin C for the natural co-factors. I take it with MSM to help the MSM work. I remove the vitamin C's from their capsules and take them in a little water to get a lower dose. I recommend those particular C's. They are high quality, non-acidic, and absorbable. Ascorbyl Palmitate in a tablet was useless to me.

I would not take the high doses of C the OP is talking about. I would try to eat plenty of C containing foods and listen to your body to get the supplement dose. If your urine is bright yellow or fluorescent green or it burns when you pee, you have taken too much. Flooding your body with megadoses of some things isn't necessarily good. Your organs of elimination have to work overtime to remove excess substances. The acidity can be harmful. Vitamin C is good to take more than once a day, if you can manage that. It is only active in your body for about five or six hours.

Life is a question of balance. Eat well, take care of yourself, and be considerate of your body. Don't force it to do stuff, or flood it with stuff. That can do more harm than good.

Edited by Luminosity, 11 March 2014 - 05:06 AM.

[Gerrans]

I would not take the high doses of C the OP is talking about. I would try to eat plenty of C containing foods and listen to your body to get the supplement dose. If your urine is bright yellow or fluorescent green or it burns when you pee, you have taken too much. Flooding your body with megadoses of some things isn't necessarily good. Your organs of elimination have to work overtime to remove excess substances. The acidity can be harmful. Vitamin C is good to take more than once a day, if you can manage that. It is only active in your body for about five or six hours.

I think the way to tell if you have taken too much is diarrhoea. There is a theory that Vitamin C occupies the same pathways as uric acid. In that case, a reasonable amount of Vitamin C should not make the kidneys works any harder than usual to eliminate both. I do not take enough Vitamin C to cause diarrhoea; difficult to be sure, but I do not think I have ever felt worse from taking Vitamin C.

[8bitmore]

I have taken 3-6 gram of Sodium Ascorbate daily with equal dose MSM for about 4 days running up to now - I can tell clearly on my skin (younger looking, more shiny/oily) but that may well be the MSM by itself. I have a slight sense of illness (potential detox for the optimist ) in the body that seems unrelated to anything else I'm doing and feels unlike 'regular' cold/flu/other so will monitor accordingly and continue regimen. Also, today I've had bizarre want to avoid excess carbs in a very felt way (tried eating potato - felt sick/off).

For the record I'm optimizing health here, not (at least knowingly) curing diseases and felt attracted to trying the C/MSM combo out so I'll report back in this thread with any small/large benefits I may, or may not, gain from doing this for a decent stretch of time.

Also worth noting is that the particular type of Vitamin C makes a radical difference for me: Ascorbic Acid causes throat/sinus flu-like symptoms for me within 48 hrs. I was in such disbelief of this phenomenon when it first happened that I have gone through with trialling it for at least 4-5 times after my first experience - and the reaction is there like clockwork.

[Luminosity]

Personally I'd cut way back on the Sodium Ascorbate. Try a gram or less a day divided into at least two doses.

"I think the way to tell if you have taken too much is diarrhoea. There is a theory that Vitamin C occupies the same pathways as uric acid. In that case, a reasonable amount of Vitamin C should not make the kidneys works any harder than usual to eliminate both. I do not take enough Vitamin C to cause diarrhoea; difficult to be sure, but I do not think I have ever felt worse from taking Vitamin C." -- Gerrans

That's far from the only way to tell if you have taken too much C. In addition to the problems already specified, too much or the wrong kind of C can also aggravate interstitial cystitis, arthritis, fibromyalgia or just strain your kidneys, which are the most important organ in your body in Chinese Medicine. With all due respect to your theory, too much uric acid can cause gout, which is a painful and debilitating illness. Keeping your body a little bit alkaline is important to health. Acidity is linked to many health problems. Taking in too much of an acidic substance will strain your body unnecessarily. The question isn't how much vitamin can I take without getting sick immediately, it's how much does my body need? And what kind?

[eon]

I feel ok at 4 grams daily. 2 g in am and 2g in pm. Might go for 6g daily max. anyone here done this? Vit C lowers cortisol which is said to be linked to depression. I take it with plenty of water, dose on after a workout as well is wise.

Is cortisol level testable? I don't remember my doctors ever mentioning I had high levels of it, but in my teens I was told my cholesterol was borderline, not too bad but kinda high. Not sure if that was the determining factor of a high cortisol level as well.

Edited by eon, 12 March 2014 - 06:09 AM.

[eon]

Would the high dosage make sense if you're in a lot of stress meaning you workout and have an active lifestyle? The 4 g vitamin C doesn't give me any bad sides because I am active. Is it because I am putting it to good use meaning my body is using it because it needs it? Let's say I workout so hard that my cortisol level rose, but it countered with the high dose vitamin C, in other words it served its purpose. But would 4 g of vitamin C be a bit much for someone who lives a sedentary lifestyle and or work a deskjob all day? I would think so. What I'm saying is that I think if the body needs it, it could handle higher dosage. Thus, when I read something that 100g of vitamin C for INFECTIOUS DISEASES could be tolerable.

Another example is I could handle 18g of inositol daily due to my OCD. If someone else is taking 18g daily just for "fun" they would either get bored with it or their body not like it so much. I'm at a point where 9 g one dose in the morning of inositol doesn't cause any bad side effects anymore, another 9 g at night is just as well tolerated.

[mjp108]

Not to bore everyone with a little story but here goes. I moved to NY in 1970 from the mid-west andthe first year here I was sick as a dog every day. I traveled an hour and a half into the city. Mycommute involved a car, train, subway and walking. Not having been exposed to the various bugs in the NY area my system was working overtime. I started using supplements to brace myself and heard of the strengths of vitamin C and what it could do for you and I started a regimen as part of my daily dosage. For thirty years I was taking from 5 mgs to 20 mgs daily depending on the perceived need. I swear by the regimen. The high dosage would be maintained until I started passing yellow water again and then I would reduce the dosage. During these episodes of illness I would be taking the high dose of c and passing clear water. I attribute the strength of my immune system today at 71 to that regimen. I am hardly ever sick. Once in a great while I will come down with a bug but it is so rare I could not tell you the last time I was sick. All I can say is for me it worked. I cannot say enough about the benefits.

[eon]

5 to 20 mg is rather low, did you mean to say 5 to 20 grams? How is yellow urine a determining factor that you took to much vit C? I've had yellow and white urine before I was even supplementing? What does the colors even mean? Is yellow a bad sign? Is white a good sign? Great story though.

[mjp108]

Just as a foot note to my previous reply, the vitamin C I took was with Rose Hips. Not sure what
that is but it enabled my system to ingest the high dosage of C. I tried vitamin C straight and it felt as if a hole was burnt in my intestine. The Rose Hips were the miracle that let the C do its
thing in my system.

[xcnt]

Liposomal Vitamin C is the best solution to achieve high (mega)-doses of vitamin-c-intake, without side effects in your digestive system.

You can theoretically manufacture it cheaply at home.

I've been doing that for the last ~2 years, neven been sick since then.

I consume between 2000 - 5000 mg of vitamin c (sodium ascorbate) per day, encapsulated into liposomes.

--

Sidenote: I created a little website about liposomal vitamin c in German, as there was almost no good info material in German about liposomal vitamin c.

You can find it here:

www.lipos-c.com

Edited by xcnt, 13 March 2014 - 03:09 PM.

[chipdouglas]

Do most of you supplementing vitamin C actually supplement the Ascorbic Acid form, Ester-C or other mineral ascorbate forms ?
The reason I'm asking is the vitamin C foundation recommends plain ascorbic acid over other forms. OTOH, I wonder about the incidence of heartburn in those taking it on an empty stomach.

That being said, liposomal vitamin C seems to be somewhat popular of late. Some disagree with this form saying it bypasses the digestive tract. Aside from liposomal delivery, other forms more or less seem to have the same bioavailability, at least if I go on what can be read over at the LPI.

Edited by chipdouglas, 14 March 2014 - 01:49 AM.

[eon]

ascorbic acid is what's popular and the most common you'd see in the stores and in multi vitamins. I read the salt is better than the acid. I only have the acid for now til it runs out. People usually back out of using high dose vitamin C due to the diarrhea or other side effects. I don't. LOL. But always looking for a better form. I truly believe higher dose vit C is what makes it work best. I read the most active part of vit C is L-ascorbic acid. Is this same as just ascorbic acid or not?

[Kevnzworld]

Do most of you supplementing vitamin C actually supplement the Ascorbic Acid form, Ester-C or other mineral ascorbate forms ?
The reason I'm asking is the vitamin C foundation recommends plain ascorbic acid over other forms. OTOH, I wonder about the incidence of heartburn in those taking it on an empty stomach.

That being said, liposomal vitamin C seems to be somewhat popular of late. Some disagree with this form saying it bypasses the digestive tract. Aside from liposomal delivery, other forms more or less seem to have the same bioavailability, at least if I go on what can be read over at the LPI.

Buffered ascorbate, with mixed mineral salts. Calcium, magnesium and zinc in capsules with rose hips.
My stomach doesn't like large ascorbate rocks.

[chipdouglas]

Buffered ascorbate, with mixed mineral salts. Calcium, magnesium and zinc in capsules with rose hips.
My stomach doesn't like large ascorbate rocks.

Other than for hypertensive people who need to keep tabs on their sodium intake (i.e. sodium ascorbate) and for those on potassium sparing drugs (i.e.potassium ascorbate), needing to watch their K+ intake, are there any other real points of contention with taking any of the mineral ascorbate, i.e. Ester-C etc. over the L-ascorbic acid form ?

[8bitmore]

Buffered ascorbate, with mixed mineral salts. Calcium, magnesium and zinc in capsules with rose hips.
My stomach doesn't like large ascorbate rocks.

Other than for hypertensive people who need to keep tabs on their sodium intake (i.e. sodium ascorbate) and for those on potassium sparing drugs (i.e.potassium ascorbate), needing to watch their K+ intake, are there any other real points of contention with taking any of the mineral ascorbate, i.e. Ester-C etc. over the L-ascorbic acid form ?

Quite a lot of people live with some degree of acidosis due to diet..etc. -especially if you plan on taking large doses for longer stretches of time then it makes sense to go for something more PH neutral.

Edited by 8bitmore, 14 March 2014 - 07:33 PM.

[nightlight]

Liposomal Vitamin C is the best solution to achieve high (mega)-doses of vitamin-c-intake, without side effects in your digestive system.
You can theoretically manufacture it cheaply at home. I've been doing that for the last ~2 years, neven been sick since then.

Yep, same here. All colds and stomach bugs going around just me pass me by. In my variant of this Liposomal C recipe I use Linus Pauling's favorite combination, sodium ascorbate + lysine in 1:1 weight ratio. I also use sunflower lecithin instead of soy lecithin in the above recipe.

It also cleared completely a chronic inflammation in the root of a molar I had for years, flaring up occasionally into abscesses, which dentist insisted needed either a root canal or extraction (I didn't like either suggestion, so I kept putting it off and just taking antibiotics during flareups). Within about a week of mouth rinsing with Liposomal C, the inflammation was gone completely as if I never had it. In addition to drinking 2-3 oz of Liposomal C, I also use a spoonful (1/2 oz) in 1/4 cup of warm water with a bit of baking soda, for last mouth rinse right before going to sleep. It fixed that inflammation problem and firmed up the gums so they are not sensitive any more to harder brushes or flossing. Other uses I found for it are as aftershave (with few drops of alcohol in a 2 oz bottle of Liposomal C) and as a skin tonic.

The Liposomal C has also become my main nootropic, boosting dopamine & norepinephrine (from vitamin C), while the lecithin component of Liposomal C produces acetylcholine. The dopaminergic effects (which are due to Vitamin C component) provide a pleasant yet subtle (compared to PEA or amphetamines) sensation of well being and energy within minutes of ingestion, which lasts for hours. For additional nootropic effects, I combine Liposomal forms (also home made) of ALCAR + glutamine (24g ALCAR, 18g glutamine with 30g lecithin in 1.5 cup production batch). Another combo is ALCAR + creatine (also in 24g:18g:30g per batch). With the first ALCAR combo, I also add 1 drop of Methylene Blue (MB) per batch, which yields about 150 mcg of MB per 1 oz of Liposomal potion. The above combinations have made, for me, obsolete any other nootropic stack.

[eon]

I do take lysine HCL with vitamin C (ascorbic acid). I take other stuff with vitamic C at the same time as well perhaps a few minutes apart (creatine, d-ribose, magnesium glycinate, n-acetyl ceistine, arginine, and so on). Arginine and D-ribose only on workout days. Could this be another form of liposomal vit C? I don't have any diarrhea issues when taking 1.5 grams twice daily. I could take more if I had the time of day to let the first dose past by after 2-3 hours.

Edited by eon, 23 March 2014 - 07:41 AM.

[caruga]

Vitamin C can mobilize cholesterol.

I just did an expensive order of liposomal vitamin c, carnosine, and glutathione (the brand is 'lipolife') and I may be coming to regret it. The doses I'd be delivering with the vitamin c are no better than what I can already get from taking regular vitamin c--I thought the whole point was to make it more tolerable on the gut so that you can take more, or is more of it absorbed too? Anyway, not feeling anything as of yet.

[Jason30]

I also wonder if liposomal vitamin c is better then the regular ascorbid acid?
I came across the LivOn Laboratories vitamin c (30 packets).
One packet gives:
Vitamin C (as sodium ascorbate) 1,000 mg 1,666% Sodium (as sodium ascorbate) 120 mg 5% Essential Phospholipids (EPL)
(from soy lecithin) 1,000 mg †

Do you guys advice above vitamine c more then the regular ascorbid acid?

[eon]

i'm not understanding "liposomal" concept yet. Does that mean it is relating to "fats" or "fat solubility"?

Nightlight's link to a liposomal recipe suggests ascorbic acid with soy lecithin. Curious if ascorbic acid with phosphatidyl choline work the same way since phosphatidyl choline is a source of lecithin?

I think I'm doing something right considering I don't even get diarrhea even from 2 g dosage of ascorbic acid. My regular dose is usually 1.5 g twice daily but I just took a 2 g dose right now since my nose was runny.

Could it be because I am taking DHA along with it as well as other supplements like vitamin E which are fat soluble? Is my recipe considered liposomal then? Is the recipe to combine ascorbic acid with something "fat soluble"?

Though I'm looking for another type of vitamin C once my ascorbic acid batch is done. so far this ascorbic acid is fine. Regarding the buffered version of vitamin C, calcium ascorbate, what's the story on this one? I read it absorbs calcium better but I already take a calcium supplement so I don't think I want this version. Am I right? Not sure about it yet.

Now, the sodium ascorbate form of vit c is a salt, not an acid version, hence the name "sodium". This may be my next vitamin C. What about the vitamin C ester "ascorbyl palmitate", this combo of palmitic acid with ascorbic acid makes vitamin C "fat soluble" so it enhances absorption and retention of vitamin C in the body for later use. Sounds good?

Edited by eon, 26 March 2014 - 08:07 AM.

[pamojja]

Everything to know about different forms of vitamin C:

http://lpi.oregonsta...C/vitCform.html

Something about liposomes:

http://www.livonlabs...apsulation.html

I think I'm doing something right considering I don't even get diarrhea even from 2 g dosage of ascorbic acid.

What was your highest dose you could tolerate before diarrhea started? Personally I tolerate up to 9 g in one go without any difficulties.

[eon]

When I first started out 2 g gave me diarrhea. Not sure if it was because of combining vitamin C after I had just drank cranberry juice, which already has vitamin C as well. I think when I had diarrhea it was because I took vitamin C with juice and or another compound. Maybe even after I just ate cereals with milk. I don't drink milk anymore unless it is milk not from animal source (lactose free).

[platypus]

What is your take on vitamin C slowing down or stopping beneficial adaptations to exercise? I used to be on ~2 grams of C for years but lately I've dialed it down due to these concerns related to exercise.