161 replies to this topic

[BigPapaChakra]

I forgot to add this. Some of this is protocol dependent because of the way that certain brain waves (and even then, more specifically, brain waves in certain areas with varying amounts of amplitude, power, etc) can affect how one processes thoughts, emotions, memories, and so forth. Future Health has good interviews on all forms of neuro/biofeedback; I remember hearing someone state that they found that training Alpha waves was great for traumatic memory processing, but it was a difficult process and one would definitely need someone there to accompany them through the process. Yet, if Alpha-Theta training was done, the process was really easy and peaceful. One came to terms with their negative emotions, pent up trauma, and so forth, with little aid of the practitioner/clinician, and felt better within the session and shortly after. So, I can see Alpha-Theta training, and then connecting that with gamma oscillations, being wholly powerful for disintegrating our own poor experiences, causing their release, and then causing further neuronal connections thereafter to re-establish a new baseline.

 

The more I dig into this, the more awesome all this becomes.  

[BarrelBoy]

Hey Opaque, I'd like to thank you for prompting this discussion and sharing your methods. How was the meditation retreat?

 

Would you mind elaborating more on why you think meditating sans neurofeedback is beneficial in conjunction with neurofeedback, over say, just neurofeedback?

 

I'm also curious why you and BigPapaChakra (as far as I can tell from your posts) are no longer following the TULIP protocol. Presumably you favor neurofeedback more, but why not combine them?

 

It's probably a little too early to say what I'll eventually decide to do, but I'm thinking that once I have the money I'll be giving neurofeedback a go. It's been on my to-do list forever, however prohibitive costs and a lack of any huge results have kept me from taking the plunge. I'll gladly contribute my findings should I follow this route.

 

Edit: Not to go too off topic but big thanks to BigPapaChakra for linking that Sadistik song, I'll have to check out more of his stuff later. I'm a huge Eyedea fan and suffice it to say that video brought me to tears.

Edited by brokenyoga, 10 July 2014 - 10:23 PM.

[BigPapaChakra]

Hey Opaque, I'd like to thank you for prompting this discussion and sharing your methods. How was the meditation retreat?

 

Would you mind elaborating more on why you think meditating sans neurofeedback is beneficial in conjunction with neurofeedback, over say, just neurofeedback?

 

I'm also curious why you and BigPapaChakra (as far as I can tell from your posts) are no longer following the TULIP protocol. Presumably you favor neurofeedback more, but why not combine them?

 

It's probably a little too early to say what I'll eventually decide to do, but I'm thinking that once I have the money I'll be giving neurofeedback a go. It's been on my to-do list forever, however prohibitive costs and a lack of any huge results have kept me from taking the plunge. I'll gladly contribute my findings should I follow this route.

 

Edit: Not to go too off topic but big thanks to BigPapaChakra for linking that Sadistik song, I'll have to check out more of his stuff later. I'm a huge Eyedea fan and suffice it to say that video brought me to tears.

 

I actually re-started TULIP a couple of times. I just recently started doing it again. I just believe as time went on (from my initial use) I've caused my brain even more damage than I was originally trying to repair, so my results haven't been as stellar as the first time around. That being said, just like before, I'm starting low and slow - 30 seconds per spot at like 2-4 spots, and building up every few days. I just finished a bottle of PQQ and CoQ10+Shilajit, actually. After I finish my next one I think I'm going to look into other mitochondrial based supplements, though, such as nicotinamide riboside, SkQ1, MitoQ, D-Ribose, and Galactose. Too bad they're all rather expensive.

 

I believe the transformation that has occurred in OpaqueMind is pretty awesome, just in case you want some anecdotal proof. I've read some of his old posts before, and compared them to our messages back and forth, and I can tell that he has gradually changed, though in a positive way, of course. I personally can't wait to get a TLC7 assessment from Peter Van Deusen and start doing whatever protocol(s) seem optimal for my brain compared against itself (as opposed to a database of other "normal" brains). I'm also contemplating attending some "Art of Living" courses for Sri Sri Yoga and their meditation techniques. 

 

And of course, haha   I love Sadistik's work. It's so eloquent in a dark and mystifying manner. I'm too a fan of Eyedea, his passing was such a shame.

[OpaqueMind]

Hey Opaque, I'd like to thank you for prompting this discussion and sharing your methods. How was the meditation retreat?

 

Would you mind elaborating more on why you think meditating sans neurofeedback is beneficial in conjunction with neurofeedback, over say, just neurofeedback?

 

I'm also curious why you and BigPapaChakra (as far as I can tell from your posts) are no longer following the TULIP protocol. Presumably you favor neurofeedback more, but why not combine them?

 

It's probably a little too early to say what I'll eventually decide to do, but I'm thinking that once I have the money I'll be giving neurofeedback a go. It's been on my to-do list forever, however prohibitive costs and a lack of any huge results have kept me from taking the plunge. I'll gladly contribute my findings should I follow this route.

 

Edit: Not to go too off topic but big thanks to BigPapaChakra for linking that Sadistik song, I'll have to check out more of his stuff later. I'm a huge Eyedea fan and suffice it to say that video brought me to tears.

 

The retreat went really great thanks   I had some awesome (literally) experiences which revealed the depths to which my mind is growing. Two stand out to me; at one point my concentration became so intense that my sense of physical embodiment vanished, and I became a point of focused awareness within a void. Another profound experience was during these meditations we had intermittently throughout each day, wherein we had to sit for an hour in posture without moving a muscle. I'm a fairly tall guy and my legs are pretty inflexible, so by about 45 minutes in my knees feel like they're on the verge of exploding, pulsing in absolute agony. The point of this was to practice equanimity in the face of pain, to learn a new relationship to pain, or rather, to unlearn the default relationship of avoidance to it. Doing this during one session, I had moments where I felt myself flicker into the edges of universal consciousness, and the pain became simply another sensation among sensations. No longer pain, just a sense.  Those few moments of perfect equanimity were pure bliss. My plan of loading up on cerebrolysin and neurofeedback definitely worked... for about 6-7 days I felt that I was still adjusting and acclimatising to the seeds of neural change which I had planted prior to the retreat.

 

My sense that meditating is very useful in integrating the changes brought about by TAGsync neurofeedback was mostly borne of experience. Whenever I meditated on the day of or during the days after doing a TAGsync session, I noticed a greater sense of electrical firings within my brain, which I know from prior experience with certain nootropics very often occurs along with increased integration of learned material ie increased neuroplasticity. During these times I would notice a distinct increase in the occurrence of thoughts, particularly of either the resurfacing of past memories or of the novel combination of certain ideas I had been thinking of recently. These mind/brain thought/electrical surges would happen for a while, usually calming down by the end of a 30 minute meditation. If they didn't, they would resurface again the next meditation. If I did TAG before I had felt these integrations calming down during my sits, it wasn't so effective and I wouldn't hit so many phase resets. However, if I waited until they died down of their own accord, my sessions were better. On the basis of these observations I reasoned that the neural changes which had been prompted by the TAGsync sessions had to be further integrated by the brain, and that although this already occurs during sleep, it could be sped up and possibly even deepened via meditation. The brain is a massive parallel processor, and each neuron is an information processor in itself, constantly adjusting its own activity and structure in response to the inputs from other neurons. It therefore takes some time for alterations of broad neural networks to be integrated throughout the brain, and the ripple effects of these changes are probably highly pronounced when dealing with such integral systems as the default mode network. I think that during the 'silence' of meditation, the brain is free from the disturbances which usually inhibit its adaptation to itself, and so in this state neuroplasticity occurs more readily.

 

Regards to TULIP, I had some pretty bad problems while using TULIP with C60-oo and BiPolar NFB, so I discontinued TULIP and haven't touched it since. I didn't bother to isolate the problem, as I was deep into NFB and too eager to continue with it, while also being at a crucial time during university finals, so it really wasn't the time to be experimenting with things. I will certainly try again in the future, as TULIP was super powerful, and with my newly enhanced brain will surely be a great addition. However, I'm still ironing out the kinks in my cognition with NFB at the moment, so experimenting with lasers again is not at the top of my to-do list.

 

BigPapa, I'm thinking of going the TLC7 route as well... even though TAGsync has been immensely helpful in alleviating my prior cognitive problems, there are still some aspects which I feel have a way to go, like short-term memory and motivation. Maybe TAGsync will deliver more in this regard, maybe not. For such deep dysregulations as ours, perhaps something like the more directed approach that TLC7 offers is necessary in order to bring the brain back into optimal balance.

 

Anyway, maybe a small update on my progress with TAGsync is in order. One excellent thing I've found is that non-contextually relevant reaction patterns are continually dissolving, and everything neurotic within my mind is dissolving with them. I believe TAGsync targets neurosis directly, while incidentally neuroticism is fairly strongly correlated with the emergence of many psychopathologies , and as I hinted earlier in the thread, I believe TAGsync may be a panacea for remediating many psychologically originating mental illnesses (as opposed to organically originating). Interestingly, the brains of neurotic people demonstrate an increased randomness within and between functional connectivity networks, while TAGsync cultivates the exact opposite, namely a highly ordered fractal/small-world network distribution within and between functional networks.

[umop 3pisdn]

I really think this modality has a lot of promise for spiritual practice. That might be because that's almost exclusively the way I've used it, but it really strikes the sweet spot between operationalizing 'meditation' (which I think is impossible, or almost some kind of contradiction of terms), and having you as the only authority in investigating the unfolding process yourself.

 

I'm thinking of looking into the TLC assessment option too, I've always had the suspicion I might have hot temporal lobes or something but I've never really known how to make that kind of assessment myself. A more specific, personalized training program does sound really appealing.

Edited by umop 3pisdn, 13 July 2014 - 08:18 AM.

[OpaqueMind]

Umop, it's great to hear from you man!

 

How's TAGsync working out for you in general? Having used it for a fairly long time, are you still noticing progressive improvements in your meditative practice which you can attribute to the training? How is the effect specifically on a) concentration and b) insight?

 

I hope I've caught you before you disappear into the digital wind once again 

 

Edit: I just saw your PM, thanks very much for the reply. If you covered anything in there that I asked about in this post, I don't mind if you ignore it.

Edited by OpaqueMind, 13 July 2014 - 09:38 AM.

[tolerant]

For somebody who only just today learned what neurofeedback is, can someone recommend the actual equipment (i.e. a headband) that you wear and software package. I understand the equipment would have to be more serious than a toy such as this: http://www.amazon.co...-2&keywords=eeg however, I would prefer something that doesn't involve me having to attach electrodes to my head, if that is possible.

[Sunifiramses II]

That reminds me, I've been meaning to ask about another, possibly cheaper* neurofeedback product, the Emotiv EPOC. OpaqueMind (and others who have done neurofeedback), what do you think of this?

 

*cheaper than the $1500+ one that OpaqueMind linked to earlier in this thread

[tolerant]

There's also this: http://www.choosemuse.com/

 

The suggestions come from this post: http://www.longecity...es/#entry609430

 

There are two suggestions (EPOC and Muse) which seemed to be in the development stage then but are available now.

 

On another subject, can any of these devices, or another device, be used to record EEG while you're sleeping? I note that people here use various substances to start seeing dreams, improve dream recall, have more vivid dreams, etc. I have a bit of an opposite problem. When I wake up it feels like I have been dreaming all night and can usually recollect every detail. I know that this is not healthy. I very rarely have this deep kind of sleep when you wake up and you're not quite sure where you are or your position in relation to the room. I would love to know what is happening with my brain waves while I sleep. I am pretty sure I am missing out on the really deep sleep (which is in part contributed to be benzos).

[typ3z3r0]

BTW, tolerant, it's worth noting since you're in Australia that you can have 10 free neurofeedback sessions done if you're on a mental health care plan.

[OpaqueMind]

Tolerant, I can't speak for the effectiveness of any devices other than the Q-Wiz, which has served me very well. You can find the details of my particular setup earlier in the thread.

 

To everyone here, and especially those who actually have TAGsync up and running or would like help doing so, I recommend subscribing to this new thread, more based around TAGsync operation and discussion than this one. I'm currently in an ongoing conversation with three fellow TAGgers, which will soon be moving to that thread. If you have any questions, or would like to share your experiences with TAG, I would appreciate very much if you could post over there, so we can have all the relevant information in one place.

[tolerant]

OpaqueMind, thank you for fielding questions. I am trying to understand, with that 21 channel cap, do you have to connect wires to it, or do you just have to wear it? Why is there gel included? Also, can it record and store brain wave information while you sleep?

[arvcondor]

I also have a question: have you done any cognitive benchmark testing on yourself to see how you've improved since beginning your program?

[Godof Smallthings]

For somebody who only just today learned what neurofeedback is, can someone recommend the actual equipment (i.e. a headband) that you wear and software package. I understand the equipment would have to be more serious than a toy such as this: http://www.amazon.co...-2&keywords=eeg however, I would prefer something that doesn't involve me having to attach electrodes to my head, if that is possible.

 

The Mindwave and Mindwave mobile are primarily intended as BCI (brain to computer interfaces). The manufacturer claims 96% accuracy compared to clinical EEG. I suspect this claim is based on an incomplete study. I have used first the Mindwave and then the Mindwave mobile for a couple of years by now. They are single electrode devices, meaning that brainwaves are only meausured in one spot. EEG caps typically have dozens of electrodes, all over the head. The processing of the data comes with delays, and the actual data that reaches the app on your screen is not exactly 'real-time'. You will notice this as you practice, i.e. whatever technique you employ to affect the meters on the screen will take effect after some delay. The delay is long enough that you may have already tried some other technique before the result is seen. Of course, as time goes by, you learn to work with this limitation, but from me as a long-time user, it would be better with a device that has a faster response time.

 

If you do use them daily, you will gradually get better at finding strategies to affect the meditation and concentration values.

 

Unfortunately, I have no experience with expensive EEG / Biofeedback equipment to compare.

 

My Muse will reach me in a week or two, so then I will at least be able to comment on the difference compared to the MindWave devices.

 

My general thought is that continuous application of the 5 precepts + the 4 foundations of mindfulness + daily 'normal' meditation practice will provide good results for most people and excellent results for some. In Buddhism, several factors of enlightenment are mentioned, and that these factors need to be reasonably in balance for meditative practice to be beneficial. If one or several of them are very out of whack, intensive meditation may end up doing more harm than good. Access to a good teacher is then crucial. Those lucky people who have a natural knack for meditation may be able to get by without a teacher most of the time, or even all of the time.

[tolerant]

Godof Smallthings, would you kindly mention or provide a link to the factors of enlightenment which need to be present? Because at the moment I feel that my mindbody is rejecting any sort of meditation/mindfulness practice.

[Godof Smallthings]

This is a good introduction: http://en.wikipedia....f_Enlightenment.

 

 

[Godof Smallthings]

By the way, the mind and body often protest against meditation and mindfulness. The trick is to smile inwardly at the mind and say 'thanks for your opinion, but I've got it covered, trust me' and do it anyway. The mind will keep finding excuses and distractions. That is just what the mind does. It is designed that way. If the body aches unbearably when you sit, review your posture and see if you can change something to make it more comfortable. Sitting straight backed in a chair is OK if no other way is possible. You don't have to do a full lotus. Many meditators get there without mastering a full lotus. Also, it is not even required to do sitting meditation - there are lying down and walking meditation techniques too. One tradition alternates between equal length sitting and walking meditation sessions to ensure the meditator can keep at it all day during retreats.

 

The bottom line is that if you gently train your attention over and over again each session, at least once per day, you will eventually experience periods where the mind settles, or at least becomes calmer than your current baseline. With even more regular practice, those periods will be longer and longer, and your experience will deepen. But it is not a linear journey - one meditation is not like the other, so unlike physical exercise you may find that one sitting is beautifully serene and the next one is unpleasant. That's fine, too. Keep going. It is a bit like a layer cake. Some layers are cream, some are strawberry, others are shit. But we have to sit through shit to get more cream and strawberries, and eventually, to realize on the deep experiential level that shit, cream and strawberries are ultimately the same, impermanent, unsatisfactory, and not our self.

 

So just get back onto your meditation object as soon as you notice the focus has drifted to another internal or external stimuli. Repeat, repeat, repeat, repeat. And have patience. When the unconscious mind experiences and realizes for itself the benefits and pleasantness of a calmly concentrated state, it will grow to like and eventually love the meditation.

[tolerant]

Thanks for that... The Wikipedia introduction is very hard to decipher for me. What further confuses me is that you said that these seven factors need to be balanced before you begin meditation... Is this correct? If so, then how do you balance them? I understand meditation only as a psychotherapy technique, i.e. mindfulness meditation, popularised by Jon Kabat-Zinn. Are we talking about the same thing? Furthermore, a psychotherapy technique called Action and Commitment Therapy (ACT) is designed so you can enjoy the benefits of mindfulness without meditation at all. 

 

I am very far off from even trying any lotus posture meditation. I only ever attempt meditation when I am curled up under my blanket and desperately trying to find at least some peace of mind, so I can just lie there and not actively feel anguish. It's interesting that both books I had a look at dealing with mindfulness, one called "Mindful Way Through Depression" and another called "The Happiness Trap" (on ACT), say that you should not try the techniques described in the books if they don't feel comfortable or if you haven't been stabilised enough mentally. I think some level of inner peace  (whether achieved by medication or otherwise) is required even before you start, or you have to start really, really slowly.

[Godof Smallthings]

The Wikipedia introduction is very hard to decipher for me. What further confuses me is that you said that these seven factors need to be balanced before you begin meditation... Is this correct?

 

I think I expressed myself badly. No, that is not correct. Meditators typically need to adjust these factors back and forth as they go along. What I really meant to say was that if the factors are *severely* imbalanced, the meditation could be bad, i.e. a person who has acted against his/her own actual inner morals for a long time but is deluded of that fact might find it difficult to cope with the feelings that come up when this is realized. Or, as another example, a person who practices well for a while and experiences an altered state through meditation and gets a massive surge of energy, may, if mindfulness is not strong, be propelled into very deluded or confused mind states (when energy feeds a mind that has a tendency towards overactive imagination it can cause strange ideas and actions)... etc.

 

I think Kabat-Zinn's techniques are good for anxiety. I also think that starting slowly is exactly what you should do. 5 minutes per day is good, maybe with 10 minutes during weekends. Then increase with 2 minutes per week.

 

Don't try to escape from unpleasant feelings, like anguish, even though that is your instinct, but instead observe how it feels in your body. Give it the best, warmest, most welcoming and sincere smile you can achieve. Try to observe it like a kind-hearted doctor would receive a scared patient. This might feel weird or difficult at first, but it is practice, so results will come gradually.

 

I do think a teacher would be good, if you can find one near where you are.

 

 

[MRBIOFEEDBACK]

The most popular protocols are SMR over CZ (for ADD), ALPHA THETA training (also called the peniston protocol) over 01. There are numerous modalities of training. 

 

Z-Score training will compare your score over that of a normative database. 

Coherence training will train two sites with respect to the degree of relatedness of their brainwaves.

Assymetries (especially in the frontal cortex) are also something that is trained most notably for depression. 

 

You can uptrain certain frequency bands in certain areas because of their association with a certain state. Thatès the case for High Alpha bands and peak performance training. High Alpha is also related to the efficiency of the brain and peak alpha frequencies with cognitive abilities and intelligence. 

 

The Q-WIZ is a low end machine though very capable. Like the OP said, most treatment modalities start with a QEEG assessment. The problem is that those are pretty expensive and even if you get the machinery you still have to send it in for processing which costs $. On average, I would think a NFB center would charge 700-1000$ for a QEEG assessment.

 

For NFB training you have a few Big Guns out there : Thought Technology, Nexus & Brainmaster. You also have others like Mitsar, J&J , etc... which are all medical grade equipment. The big plus though is that all of these companies sell their EEG systems with most of the integrated protocols in their software. That's another thing, you'll have to learn software well!! This isnèt the kind of thing that you pick up overnight. Though most people here do spend quite some time learning things of a scientific nature. 

 

Btw, NFB has been used for decades in sports performance, autism, ADD, epilepsy, PTSD, etc... 

Look these guys up : Barry Sterman, Joel Lubar, Peniston Protocol, Joe Kamiya (the guy that started alpha training).

 

DO NOT USE CONSUMER EEG DEVICES FOR NFB! Someone here proposed Neurosky. This is a consumer device not regulated for NFB training.  If you want to look at high end EEG, look at Evoke Neuroscience. 

[Ames]

I want to put it out there that I think that all of the speculative meditation and mindfullness talk is significant noise in the system. I know that others will disagree, but that's my perspective. Personally, I'd rather not conflate the topics of NFB and "mindfullness" due to the fact that I find the latter concept woefully murky and frought with hippy pseudo-knowledge (the hippy equivelant of bro-science).

 

@Mr. Biofeedback

 

There are quite a few scientists, MDs, and other clinicians on this board and who would easily professionally qualify for NFB certification in the U.S. should they pursue the brief training necessary . Although, there are some hobbyists as well. The software is an instrument that uses a language and relies on procedure. The language and procedures aren't so hard to learn. The only significant talent involved is in QEEG interpretation and the reusltant treatment plan. As you say, that is generally paid for and I agree that it should be thought of as a price-of-entry for anyone with significant issues. No one here is speaking about QEEG interpretation, although that would be an interesting topic. One can get a relatively inexpensive (<$1000) QEEG setup on ebay and can buy roughly $300 worth of books on amazon to learn the basics.  However, I'm sure that much experience would be necessary to become proficient in the art of QEEG interpetation and practical NFB treatment planning based on QEEG. Anyone who isn't proficient at reading and interpeting QEEGs likely can't claim to have any significantly difficult to acquire special knowledge in NFB.

[MRBIOFEEDBACK]

@gplgi1

Of course that anyone with certain credentials can get BCIA certification and be on their way. By the way, many practitioners out there use neurofeedback therapeutically without any training. While you simplify the fact that the protocols are somewhat arbitrary (which to some extent i do agree with) an experienced therapist will use and mix many treatment modalities in a session when deemed necessary.

The QEEG data (19 sites, many bandwidths and coherences measures) is certainly not something one should get into with a blind eye. Part of what you pay for is the comparative measures obtained from cross referencing to a normative and clinical database. I venture no one here would have sufficient experience to give much meaning to such data (nor even the 90% of clinicians out there). A real QEEG setup would cost 20K. Some manufacturers would be less but pverall you're looking at 15-20K. Even then with the equipment you'd still have to pay to submit QEEG data for cross analysis to databases. So really anyone with a particular situation should pay the entry fee and then another one again a year after trainjng.

Btw, there are alternatives. Dr Swingle (vancouver bc) created a quickQ which is a 5 sites miniq at cz, o1, f3,f4 & fz. Its available from bfe.org. No qeeg setup required. He has his own database which comes with the software. So you get some clinical correlates as to what all of it means. He also has some lectures on that site yoi guys can use to get more knowledgeable.

Anyhow, thats what i think of it all. Its a great field though and more people shoild become aware of it!! Spread the word!
And btw peak performance as used by olympians & athletes is a whole other can of worms!

[neurotransmitter]

Anyone tried the stressreleaser app?  Looks mighty appealing.

 

 

Stress Releaser is first biofeedback IPhone/Android application that helps guide you through for calm and relaxing meditation with a biofeedback point system. No special attachment or hardware is needed for this biofeedback app. Stress Releaser now gives everyone a chance to practice without pay enormous sums of money for those expensive, hardware devices.

 

from their website: http://bstressreleaser.com/

 

[MRBIOFEEDBACK]

It will measure HR but not respiration which is what you need for HRV. But in most respects I would think that just using a breathing pacer (which i would think would be a free app) at 6-8 breaths a minute for 20 min daily would get you great results provided you follow the rhythm!
However dont confuse the data and training possible with biofeedback with that app.

[MRBIOFEEDBACK]

Btw, a 2K system can have all that you need in it for 1 channel neurofeedback and 2.5K for 2. It isnt exactly cheap but compared to most things its not expensive either. I've had the advantage of a scientific background but if anyone here wants to know more i could point to literature. You really need to ubserstand the basics before venturing into this. All the training protocols wont do you any good unless you have the guidance to use it.

[tolerant]

I've uploaded some books on neurofeedback here: http://www.filedropp...eurofeedbacketc

 

Is that the kind of literature you're talking about? Or is there more hands-on thread of literature out there?

 

[MRBIOFEEDBACK]

Anyone have some results to post on TAG Sync protocols? I have access to much equipment and will start it soon enough. I really like the mindsupplies website as the screen information there makes the protocol easy to implement (correctly!). One thing to note about SMR is that while the 12-15Hz bandwidth is often characterized as "standard" an assessment of the 1hz bandwidth bins at cz may prove to be useful in tailoring the specific range (12-14, 12-16, etc.). This is especially true for the inhibitory frequencies (high beta, theta). Inhibitory frequencies are especially important as the can markedly changethe efficacy of the treatment. Also, one should take note that operant conditioning takes place when a proper reward is given ar high enough frequency. Choose the Animation, dvd or whatnot that will be most rewarding. Also choose a high enough freq of reward so as to be constantly stimulating. 85% threaholds for the reward bands and 15% for inhib bands to start. These are good ballparks to start protocols. Please post experiences! Im very much researching scp, alpha/theta, loreta, and all the rest. This field is absolutely fascinating and technology will soon take it to new heights. The ISNR conference was mind boggling so I invite all of you that can make it next year to join me!

[Major Legend]

I find this thread extremely interesting,

 

On meditation and general reduction of stress, two points:

 

1)

find to relax and be in the right mindset for meditating. The notion of FALLING is useful to me.

 

When there is too much overwhelm, too tired, too depressed, too sick of it or whatever. I just realise we are falling all the time. Yes, falling to the ground

we are falling through time, falling towards probably a certain financial future, falling towards our destiny, our genetic predispositions, sometimes we panic

and we grasp out onto things that we hold on to for a while before slipping and falling again. In the end we will hit that metaphorical ground, we can change

where we land , but we can't go against gravity.

 

Since we are falling anyways, why panic? why not just enjoy the fall? Why not fall in style? (quote toy story) When I realise time is falling away drop by drop no matter what I choose to do or not do no matter how lazy, uncomfortable, euphoric, etc. I realise its that whole notion that life is like a movie or rollercoaster, but falling works for me because its inevitable and fighting against it is pointless.

 

2)

 

Accepting your body state first is more important than meditation itself, most meditation starts off assuming you are already comfortable, most of us live in perpetual stress

which is normal. The issue is you can't really force yourself to control your breath, doing so wastes willpower. The best way to start is to start by letting your awareness

drift to how your body is acting, instead of "doing" meditation". I find just accepting how your heart is beating, how your breaths are currently being, where is your tension, just by those itself

in many ways beats actually doing meditation in my experience.

 

On Biofeedback:

 

I have been experimenting with brain hardware due to development of my own website, however having played with some biohardware, i've found the results to be a little bit disappointing for me so far. I haven't tried tagsync neurofeedback so far or advance brain entrainment, but the other things i've tried and read haven't been that beneficial or encouraging.

 

My interest is more with productivity rather than ascendency per say, but having a plenthora experiences with medications and drugs - I just don't have high hopes for it at the moment, which I did initially. In terms of inspiration and understanding, dropping a psychedelic once or twice in your life, radically changes your thoughts on your own perception. In terms of productivity I fail to see how this would generate more energy vs a can of redbull. I am still working on understanding it, there is a lot of material to cover.

 

Also reviewing literature there are a fews studies where they showed neurofeedback had essentially had no effects, even on ADD subjects, which neurofeedback is claimed to have the largest effect. Also this idea of alpha, beta and theta etc has also been questioned, and are based on some very old ideas of how the brain works. Its actually kind of now questionable whether the brain even works in this way, which would explain why binaural beats largely seem to fail to inccur much state change, when it should theoretically.

 

From the ideas I have been presented so far on various websites, I have good reason to sort of suspect current marketers/clinical centers veer towards pseudo-science. (I am not smart enough to conclude though).

 

I think a good barometer for me is - does the said treatment work better than a cup of coffee?

 

As for coherence training and biofeedback hardware/software etc. I find it "okay" to bridge the time gaps between supplements/medications, but they definetely don't seem to be on the same calibre, which is surprising given the effects manual meditation actually has without hardware support. Probably its just that nobody has nailed it in regards to creating a really useful effect yet, for everything there are literally hundreds of different protocols, with no seeming concensus on what works and what doesn't.

 

Also when we look at athletes or superb neurotypicals, we are more likely to be looking at the result of good genetic expression which confounds the result. To me optimising great genetics is a very different thing to fixing a dysfunctional one.

 

I think Tagsync may be a much more innovative protocol, I am really liking what I am reading (in terms of the technical breakdown), but only with tagsync.

Edited by Major Legend, 02 November 2014 - 07:46 AM.

[neuralis]

NFB is really intriguing, since modern day pharms really can't help me. Its essential to analyze your EEG for a specific program to work with. Messing with your brainwaves blindly sounds dangerous and could possibly do more harm than good.
Considering that the treatment I really need is still years away, maybe the price is not too high, if NFB is really able to improve my life quality. Need to do some calculations....

On another subject, can any of these devices, or another device, be used to record EEG while you're sleeping? I note that people here use various substances to start seeing dreams, improve dream recall, have more vivid dreams, etc. I have a bit of an opposite problem. When I wake up it feels like I have been dreaming all night and can usually recollect every detail. I know that this is not healthy. I very rarely have this deep kind of sleep when you wake up and you're not quite sure where you are or your position in relation to the room. I would love to know what is happening with my brain waves while I sleep. I am pretty sure I am missing out on the really deep sleep (which is in part contributed to be benzos).

Have you ever tried Memantine? I also suffered from complete lack of deep sleep caused by years of benzo use. After I started taking 10mgs of memantine IR before going to bed all my sleep related issues started clearing up. I use the sleep tracker app to track my movements throughout the night. I often wake up in the same position I fall asleep and feel more rested.

[MRBIOFEEDBACK]

NFB is really intriguing, since modern day pharms really can't help me. Its essential to analyze your EEG for a specific program to work with. Messing with your brainwaves blindly sounds dangerous and could possibly do more harm than good.
Considering that the treatment I really need is still years away, maybe the price is not too high, if NFB is really able to improve my life quality. Need to do some calculations....
 

 

Yes. NFB can really help and like you say, it can be dangerous in terms of side-effects to blindly mess with your brainwaves. Of course there are many standard protocols that have been studied that take the guesswork out of it for you, but even then ONLY TO A CERTAIN EXTENT. There is a lot of information on BIOFEEDBACK out there. The first place to start is Heart Rate Variability. Its actually the cheapest of all biofeedback to practice. You don't really need anything. You can find a breathing pacer online and set it to 6-8 breaths per minute. Do it for 20 minutes a day if you can. Of course you can only really see the physiological changes with the feedback equipment (Respiration sensor and Blood Volume Pulse Monitor) but if you do the 6-8 breaths per minute correctly (inhale, exhale timings and all), you should feel the changes pretty rapidly. Cardiovascular function will improve over time as will recruitment of the parasympathetic nervous system over chronic sympathetic activation (i.e. less stress!). 

 

Do that and let me know how its going. Its free!