161 replies to this topic

[foreseason]

Are there any neurofeedback systems that aren't ridiculously complicated or ridicously expensive?  I know neuroptimal is user friendly but expensive.  Everything else I've researched, albeit briefly, seems to be quite complicated to use.

 

I apologize if this has been covered. 

[umop 3pisdn]

EEG neurofeedback isn't nearly as complicated as it seems. The steepest difficulty curve is figuring out how to get a good signal, and that resolves itself intuitively just from trial and error.

 

Neurofeedback can seem very complex because there are many different modalities that people use for different purposes, but realistically you're only going to train in a couple different modalities, so the amount of understanding you need isn't even comparable to like a neurofeedback practitioner or something. Neuroptimal isn't really more straight forward than any other modality. All the same principles still apply, you're just getting a boxed design.

 

That said, you may wait and see how the Emotiv Insight EEG headset pans out, since hardware wise it may be the most convenient. That said, to get the most use of it you'd probably have to buy the software dev kit to get access to the raw EEG data, and then use it alongside a software platform like Bioexplorer to really get full use of it. So you probably still need to understand how to use a flexible software platform like Bioexplorer, but thankfully a lot of clinicians sell designs for it that make it pretty simple to understand the principles behind it with a little bit of trial and error. All it really is is trial and error. If you think you're not willing to go for that, you're probably better off not investing in home neurofeedback in the first place, because you probably won't get as much out of it as you think. This is a quickly changing discipline and it's very much still in the 'pioneering' stage, it's not really meant for casual adoption yet.

 

Edited by umop 3pisdn, 06 March 2015 - 09:41 PM.

[VastEmptiness]

my professor just came back from a conference for what seems to be magnetic resonance imaging neurofeedback:
if i understand correctly you can uptrain bloodflow even into deep brain areas with it? the future is promising

http://journals.plos...al.pone.0081658


 

[airplanepeanuts]

I am going to have a Q-wiz soon and plan to start with HEG training.

 

Can I do that with Bioexplorer without any additional designs and is there some kind of tutorial to get started with that?

 

Thank you.

 

[Crowstream]

You can use one of the pocket neurobics free designs here: http://pocketneurobi...plorer-designs/

 

Like "wiz_Mode1_2_heg_video.bxd", for example.

 

I think there is a free deisgn uploaded here too: http://jtoomim.org/b.../HEGFlight.html

Probably older though, I havent used it so I am not sure if it works.

 

You can download the videos there if you want to do it like Dave Asprey  .

 

As for tutorials, I dont know, the HEG design is pretty easy to run, just plug everything in, configure Q-wiz to HEG mode, maybe you need to select a video to use in the design but thats pretty much it I think.

[airplanepeanuts]

Thanks Crowstream I'll try that next week and after that maybe Tagsync.

[lourdaud]

I want to start HRV training but I seem to have lost the pulse oximeter for my Q-Wiz.

Is the Q-Wiz any good for HRV or would it be better to invest in an emWave2 or a similar device?

[VastEmptiness]

I want to start HRV training but I seem to have lost the pulse oximeter for my Q-Wiz.

Is the Q-Wiz any good for HRV or would it be better to invest in an emWave2 or a similar device?

 

you can actually get your heart rate by simply placing an electrode on your chest. the signal looks exactly like the one at hospital beds, seems pretty accurate too. does anybody know a design for that? i guess the pulse oximeter steals a channel too? the disadvantage of the emwave would be that you cannot combine it with other designs inside of bioexplorer (unless there is a way to connect the emwave2 as a second device?) the advantage being that you can use it on the road (thin of a train ride or flight) and generally easily/quickly. i'd really like to combine more biofeedback modalities (like muscle tension, hand warming, etc.) with my meditation training. especially slowing down breathing rate (=HRV) seems to have an immense effect on the meditation. if you find a solution let me know.

[lourdaud]

 

I want to start HRV training but I seem to have lost the pulse oximeter for my Q-Wiz.

Is the Q-Wiz any good for HRV or would it be better to invest in an emWave2 or a similar device?

 

you can actually get your heart rate by simply placing an electrode on your chest. the signal looks exactly like the one at hospital beds, seems pretty accurate too. does anybody know a design for that? i guess the pulse oximeter steals a channel too? the disadvantage of the emwave would be that you cannot combine it with other designs inside of bioexplorer (unless there is a way to connect the emwave2 as a second device?) the advantage being that you can use it on the road (thin of a train ride or flight) and generally easily/quickly. i'd really like to combine more biofeedback modalities (like muscle tension, hand warming, etc.) with my meditation training. especially slowing down breathing rate (=HRV) seems to have an immense effect on the meditation. if you find a solution let me know.

 

 

Interesting, I had missed that. Thank you. If anyone knows of a design for electrode HRV, please tell!

I'm interested in hand warming as well. I suspect I may have more luck with biofeedback modalities as my brain activity is strongly theta dominant (with spikes in gamma), so I suspect my problems may be more due to energy shortage than to mere dysregulation. My autonomic nervous system and breathing rate is probably pretty messed up.

Maybe I shouldn't have given up on TAG sync but I guess this is something biofeedback might be better suited for. DD gave me the advice to practice raising my body/hand temperature with the use of a termometer - is this something anyone have experience with?

[Crowstream]

Pocket neurobics has free designs for this: http://pocketneurobi...plorer-designs/

 

The one called "wiz_Mode3_1ecg_HRV_baroreflex_video.bxd" can be used for HRV training. It actually beats the regular emwave in some ways, since you also get a power spectrum (I think you only get this with the emwave pro version). Problem with this setup is that I dont know of any way to combine it with a TAG design, it would be quite complicated I think since designs cannot just be copied, you would need to rebuild this one inside a TAG design, also this design is built for mode 3, which might not work so well together with a TAG design.

 

You can also find a muscle biofeedback design there: "wiz_test_Mode3_emg_ecg.bxd" 

I have not tried that one, it says emg ecg so maybe it is both muscle and heart?

 

 

I have also found free Itallis designs in the bioexplorer yahoo group, I think you can become a member there for free and then you can find the designs in files and then ITALLIS Designs

 

For example there is an ECG VC design - "AutoThresholding ECG capture with HRV training module. 2 INSTRUMENTS."

Also at ecg - "Multimodal Alpha Theta and Heart Rate Variability trainer"

 

They were uploaded in 2007-2008 so quite old by now, if you want newer versions I think you can buy them here: http://www.itallis.c...0126lf8fk41nr96

 

 

There are also other options, if you have an emwave you can obviously run it simultaneously with a TAG design, problem is that the emwave software is quite visually oriented so you need to pay attention to that, but then you miss visual feedback from TAG design, thats ok though I think since I usually train eyes closed I find audio only feedback is enough (at least the way I have configured it).

 

The audio feedback with emwave I think is quite poor, as far as I know, you can only get sounds when you go to different levels of coherence (3 levels, red, blue and green), that does not give much information, especially if you can already keep yourself in green.

One way I have found to fix this is to use a program called Mind Work Station (http://www.transparentcorp.com/). Its mainly a program for creating binaural beats and using mind machines and such, but you can couple your emwave to this and use the program to convert the coherence score into a sound, that way you can create continuous audio feedback with the coherence score, and you can couple it to the control of the volume or pitch of some sound or whatever. The program has quite a lot of options for that so I think it is a good way for creating audio feedback on coherence.

I think this is probably the simplest way so you can do eyes closed audio feedback only TAG+coherence combination training. You have to pay for the program of course so it gets a bit expensive, but if you are also interested in binaural beats and mind machines then it might be worth it, I have experimented with neurofeedback+mind machine combinations with this so theres a lot of things that can be done with this setup  .

 

For a combination of TAG+coherence+galvanic skin reponse training I think you can use this: http://www.wilddivine.com/

The advantage of this setup I think is that this thing measures boh HRV and GSR as far as I can tell, and it measures it on the fingers which is great, because the emwave uses an earlobe sensor it can be hard to combine with neurofeedback! I think you would have to place one of the reference electrodes on your neck or something like that because the emwave sensor will take up one of your earlobes! So this wild divine device is better in that sense I think since you can keep your earlobes free for neurofeedback electrodes  .

This device is a bit expensive though, so I have not invested in it yet! Would be pretty cool though to try some TAG+coherence+GSR+mind machine ultimate setup, would look a bit funny I guess  .

 

 

Edit: Forgot to add also on your question about hand temperature biofeedback lourdaud, I have looked into that but I havent tried it yet... there is a great book called "Beyond Biofeedback" by some pioneers in this field. It is actually a very powerful biofeedback modality, since you are training control of the autonomic nervous system, maybe you already heard about that, but I think it could be a powerful addition to the other feedback modalities. There are special biofeedback thermometers that are made for this kind of work http://www.amazon.co...rds=biofeedback

I am having trouble finding any place that sells them in Europe though, think the shipping costs will be quite high so I havent invested in one yet. Could also be cool to have two of them so you can train both hands simultaneously, apparently it is possible to raise the temperature of one and lower it on another, so you can train to a level of very high control of the autonomic nervous system, it is even possible to raise the temperature and lower it at the same time in the same hand, but requires exquisite control (Swami Rama did this in the "Beyond Biofeedback" authors lab, but he was a very highly developed yogi, should be possible for ordinary people too with biofeedback).

 

I am wondering if you really need one of these biofeedback thermometers or if ordinary ones will do, I guess the important thing is that they are very sensitive and mostly measures the temperature exactly on your body and not say the surrounding air, so it needs to be quite precise... so perhaps best to get one specifically built for this purpose...

Edited by Crowstream, 26 April 2015 - 10:38 AM.

[Crowstream]

Cool, I found this place where you can get EMG feedback kits for 50$: http://www.advancert...m/p/shop_3.html

 

Think you have to do some of the building yourself though for biofeedback use, but there is a tutorial...

[VastEmptiness]

The first design you posted can be used with just the electrode, right? The muscle one needs another sensor? Because the last sensor you posted seems to be just an electrode as well, but with a chip for some proccessment. I wonder if the q-wiz can do that?
 

The advantage of this setup I think is that this thing measures boh HRV and GSR as far as I can tell, and it measures it on the fingers which is great, because the emwave uses an earlobe sensor it can be hard to combine with neurofeedback! I think you would have to place one of the reference electrodes on your neck or something like that because the emwave sensor will take up one of your earlobes! So this wild divine device is better in that sense I think since you can keep your earlobes free for neurofeedback electrodes    .

This device is a bit expensive though, so I have not invested in it yet! Would be pretty cool though to try some TAG+coherence+GSR+mind machine ultimate setup, would look a bit funny I guess    .

 

Since I don't have ear clips, i simply use electrodes as reference on neutral spots behind the ears, like this. Leaves plenty room for a HRV clip.   ears.png   131.72KB   3 downloads

As soon as your all-modalities setup is finished, please post pictures. Looking forward to see you with all that gear laying in the float tank, eheheh. Would look both funny and pretty awesome. Sometimes I feel Neurofeedback is mostly the excuse to do cool future gadget stuff as a grown up too...

 

 morpheus.jpg   151.55KB   4 downloads

Edited by VastEmptiness, 26 April 2015 - 02:52 PM.

[airplanepeanuts]

HI everyone,

 

I am using a q-wiz for 3 days now practicing heg. The first day I felt a little bad about buying this expensive equipment because (a) the heg signal seemed random (b) I hadn't contemplated that I would have to apply two different products to my head to position the electrodes for eeg. But I feel better now with  the heg because it seems to make a difference already and it's cool and strange to be able to consciously influence the blood flow in my brain.

 

I have a couple of questions:

 

I have read somewhere that anecdotally pir heg is better for emotional stuff and nir is better for concentration. Can somebody confirm this? Anybody think a pir headband offers unique benefits that would justify the 700$ expense? 

 

Second question is about eeg which I haven't started with yet: Do you use prep and paste both each time to apply the electrodes? Isn't that a hassle? Do you wash your hair afterwards? Does it irritate the skin (the prep is designed to be abrasive)

 

Thanks.

 

[LoveRules]

Nir is fine. Pir is a better technology but doesnt justify the cost. You can read more about it just google pir heg carmin. And yes, each and every time you mist apply paste and nuprep. Period. Wash it out after.

[VastEmptiness]

Welcome on board. Happy to see NFB hitting germany more frequently. Let me assure you, that you did a very wise investment there.
 

HI everyone,

 

I am using a q-wiz for 3 days now practicing heg. The first day I felt a little bad about buying this expensive equipment because (a) the heg signal seemed random (b) I hadn't contemplated that I would have to apply two different products to my head to position the electrodes for eeg. But I feel better now with  the heg because it seems to make a difference already and it's cool and strange to be able to consciously influence the blood flow in my brain.

 

I have a couple of questions:

 

I have read somewhere that anecdotally pir heg is better for emotional stuff and nir is better for concentration. Can somebody confirm this? Anybody think a pir headband offers unique benefits that would justify the 700$ expense? 

 

Second question is about eeg which I haven't started with yet: Do you use prep and paste both each time to apply the electrodes? Isn't that a hassle? Do you wash your hair afterwards? Does it irritate the skin (the prep is designed to be abrasive)

 

Thanks.

 

What you'll find is that it's not the gear or the signal that is random, but rather the actual bloodflow to the cortex. We talk about a modality here that no one ever could have possibly taught you. So it's like picking up any skill at your age for the first time: We feel like incapable children again. However as concentration being a crucial skill, I think it's never too late and you should see some results after some weeks including more stable amplitudes. That doesn't mean there wont be days that you just seem to have no control whatsoever - theres many more factors to a well functioning brain.

As for the difference: From what I know pIR covers a larger area but is less accurate. I see no sense in buying another HEG modality, as the nIR seems to be giving very good results. Make sure to cover a larger area in your training (F7, Fz, F8 - i also cycle between higher and lower placements) and also train-down after you shoved blood in there and especially make sure not to overtrain! I started out training every day too and got some severe fatigue out of it. Brain-trainer suggests to start with 3 minutes up / 2 minutes down on the 3 sites every other day and adding 30 seconds uptime every week i think (They have chart somewhere). Of course, every brain is different and you might be able to build up blood cells more quickly, BUT don't be surprised if you get some adverse effects of overtraining and adjust accordingly.

 

Edit: found the .pdf. -   LIFE cycle.pdf   194.89KB   19 downloads

 

"For emotional stuff" is really unprecise, but I cannot see how pIR would have a magic effect there that nIR doesn't as they both train bloodflow. The more psycho-therapeutic protocols are all EEG and include theta>alpha training as well as the TAGsync described in the beginning of the thread. However emotional troubles can be the result of many neural patterns including reversed (left/right, front/back), excessive amplitudes (too much low) or either too low or too high synchrony depending on frequency. As always, I recommend getting a QEEG assessment by brain-trainer.com and have the training plan engineered specifically to your dispositions and goals. Training with it will teach you alot about how your brain responds to certain trainings and then you can emphasise certain modalities over time. The latter is a lot of fun - NFB feels much like figuring out the programming language of your nervous system and building the ability to change how it works.

The prep is to make the skin conductive i think, feels like a peeling and can be wiped off easily and the paste is pretty sticky. Use both for signal quality is crucial in EEG training. I take a quick shower after training and i can guess it messes up longer hair. Don't know, i'm bald

Edited by VastEmptiness, 30 April 2015 - 02:26 PM.

[airplanepeanuts]

What you'll find is that it's not the gear or the signal that is random, but rather the actual bloodflow to the cortex. We talk about a modality here that no one ever could have possibly taught you. So it's like picking up any skill at your age for the first time: We feel like incapable children again. However as concentration being a crucial skill, I think it's never too late and you should see some results after some weeks including more stable amplitudes. That doesn't mean there wont be days that you just seem to have no control whatsoever - theres many more factors to a well functioning brain.

 

 

You are right about the feeling of incapability. But now I must say I find it pretty amazing how fast the brain learns to influence the blood flow, and even involuntary so: I have the impression that no conscious effort was required for that.

 

I am not sure if I'm overtraining. Today I'm having a slightly strange feeling in my brain and I do feel just a little bit queasy, but not bothersome.

On the other hand I feel pretty sharp mentally

 

About pir vs nir. I read somewhere that pir might be better for autism, nir better for ADHD. I don't know if that is true or if even can be true because both measure blood flow (albeit indirectly). I think it would be very interesting to hear from someone who has tried both.

[Diego55]

I would like to ask to HEG nir equipment.So far, I have been training with HEG for a month and more every other day (or once in 3 days) for 5 minutes per site. In total, I train all 5 sites : F7, FP1, FPz, FP2, F8 (i often rotate the order ).

I am still a bit confused about correct training and with rotating between sites on my forehead. According to you, is it ok to do it this way or should i make some changes in my training?



My problems are various anxiety issues (social phobia, GAD, PTSD) as well as emotional problems but I also suffer from some cognitive problems as a difficulty to concentrate on task ( it could be related to my anamnesis and also could be connected to the long term use of anxiolytic drugs).



Thanks.

[VastEmptiness]

I would like to ask to HEG nir equipment.So far, I have been training with HEG for a month and more every other day (or once in 3 days) for 5 minutes per site. In total, I train all 5 sites : F7, FP1, FPz, FP2, F8 (i often rotate the order ).

I am still a bit confused about correct training and with rotating between sites on my forehead. According to you, is it ok to do it this way or should i make some changes in my training?



My problems are various anxiety issues (social phobia, GAD, PTSD) as well as emotional problems but I also suffer from some cognitive problems as a difficulty to concentrate on task ( it could be related to my anamnesis and also could be connected to the long term use of anxiolytic drugs).



Thanks.

 

Make sure to train down as well (2 minutes) before you switch sites. Training all sites is a good idea. 5x 5minutes from beginning sounds ALOT if you compare it to the HEG Cycle .pdf above. However If you're feeling alright, I'd just keep going.

 

As for your heavy symptoms, I'll recommend getting a full brain assessment and specifically train the underlying patterns instead of hoping one modality will do it. If you want to become a warrior, you don't just train biceps and hope that'll do it. It'll work really well for the biceps though.

[mentat]

Are there any people from germany here? I would love to join in on some skype conversations or a meetup group someday -> considering someone lives in or around Berlin for that matter :-)

[VastEmptiness]

Are there any people from germany here? I would love to join in on some skype conversations or a meetup group someday -> considering someone lives in or around Berlin for that matter :-)

Moving to Hamburg around August.

[Ames]

A couple of thoughts after quickly browsing this page:

 

I do think that the neurofeedback learning curve is steep if you wish to get enough perspective to self-implement it well. That is, if you wish to gain perspective on the majority of the most common protocols and then decide which one(s) are for you. Implementing them is another learning curve, but less intimidating once you have the theory and some basic nfb sessions under your belt. One can save time by investing in something like the TLC7 assessment and training plan and just do it without needing to know why. You will have to invest significant extra time in getting your head around the 'why' of the results of the assessment if you wish to do so. Outside of the TLC7 approach, you would need to learn about Alpha-Theta training, Alpha asymmetry training, SCP training, ILF training, SMR training, and TAGSync training (if you wish) to start. It's a lot, and the right books are essential. I recommend  Neurofeedback and State Regulation in ADD by Van der Bergh and Introduction to Quantitative EEG and Neurofeedback, 2nd edition, by Budzynski as beginning theoretical references (though they aren't for readers that aren't at least marginally science tech oriented). A PDF of the latter, and its first edition, is floating around. Get both editions if you can get the PDF versions, as they are different. Getting your head around TAGSync requires reading a good number of research papers, links to which are more or less buried in the TAGSync site. I have 3 larger full binders of printed reading material and a multitidue of books, much of which I have read through, and I'm still getting my head around the larger general nfb paradigm. Many of the design outlines for the actual protocols, such as for alpha theta training (PTSD, addiction, emotional calm, etc) and alpha asymmetry training (depression and anxiety) are buried in research papers or are otherwise only detailed on limited places on the net. The learning curve is steep, relatively speaking, imo and most average people won't get through it unless their motivation is legitimately high. Though, by virtue of being on this forum, the likely percentage of getting over it for any individual is much higher.

 

nirHEG is fine and, due to the light weight nature of the censor, is excellent for applying to 10-20 sites around the scalp if you have a shaved head. Buy 1 inch Velcro to extend the length of the strap for longitudinal orientation around the head (cz, pz, fz). I've been particularly impressed with occipital placement, and have not yet gotten to all of the sites around the head. The potential of HEG neurofedback is significantly hindered by hair, and I would recommend that the first thing that anyone with brain disease or injury do is shave their head and purchase a nirHEG setup. The tradeoff isn't much of a debate. I've pretty much moved away of the LIFE game in favor of video feedback that I find more rewarding. Remember that, for 'automatic' nfb wherein your brain makes an adjustment without your conscious control, the reward will actually have to be significantly rewarding. The more rewarding it is the better the training effect, theoretically speaking. Watching that little brain-man run isn't so subjectively rewarding after a while, and so I suggest that the training effect might be lower than, for instance, with a comedy show that one enjoys. The more frequent the rewards during such a show, the better. I find Seth McFarlane cartoons to be a good example of a high frequency reward for adults that aren't completely put off by them. With the LIFE game I have to concentrate or otherwise use a technique to make the bar rise, but with a more rewarding reward I only have to sit there and watch.

 

Since I've started nfb, and in particular have started HEG at various sites around the head, my craving for cigarettes has shot way up and I don't smoke. The logical implication would be that the nfb is demanding greater biochemical support for long term potentiation. I'd be interested in a discussion of supplements that support but do not overly stimulate LTP as I don't want to lessen the training effect by giving it too much in the way of a crutch. I tend to have what I suspect to be TMAO issues with any significant amount of a choline supplement, likely exacerbated by an inherited MVP condition. Does anyone have any other suggestions for perhaps a nicotinic agonist or other support for LTP? I've been on and off with CILTEP but I'm not sure that I want something as stimulating to LTP as that. I'm more or less looking for support for the LTP that NFB stimulates.

Edited by golgi1, 29 July 2015 - 06:02 PM.

[Major Legend]

I am interested to know from your research, do you think neurofeedback can treat certain genetic dispositions, which cause depression, anxiety, brain fog and so on. 

 

Somebody lent me the whole thing for a week. My experience with HEG and some quick tag sync set ups, is that once you know what you are going for you can just do it in your own head...it sounds weird, but the whole thing felt like trying to lift a muscle in your brain, and once you know what you are doing you can just create corresponding mental exercises in your brain to replicate that strain or relaxation. Its worked for me so far.

 

It's sort of tiring. I wouldn't be surprised if some people just have a talent for neurofeedback whilst other people struggle with it, but I guess everyone gets there in the end, its just a matter of how many sessions. 

 

Personally after a week with it, everyday I did it I seemed more conscious of my own actions and in control of them.

 

I would like to invest on the equipment, but don't really have the money for such a big purchase at the moment, and my current chemical regiment is working very well.

Edited by Major Legend, 29 July 2015 - 09:20 PM.

[Ames]

I am interested to know from your research, do you think neurofeedback can treat certain genetic dispositions, which cause depression, anxiety, brain fog and so on. 

 

 

If you reference the second book that I mentioned in my last post, it has chapters that give overviews for the current consensus and evidence for nfb approaches for depression and anxiety. It's a good read regardless. Though, you'd probably be best served by having a TLC7 assessment done and by following Pete's resultant training plan for you if you wanted to keep it simple. It's likely to include any strategy that you gleaned on your own in addition to the correction of ratios that only someone with Pete's level experience would know to look and account for. Additionally, it'll provide a picture of what is actually going on with your brain in contrast with a blind application of a ratio correction protocol that may or may not be the best thing for you specifically.

 

SMR training (at cz) can probably be applied as a good all-around brain tuning protocol that you can apply without a mini-Q like a TLC7, as reinforcing SMR should improve GABA function in your brain and theoretically assist with anxiety and more.  Though, I'd still go for the TLC7 when I had the cash if I were you - if the problem persists.

 

TAGSync can theoretically address your issues as well, through a different mechanism. Though, others can speak to it much better than can I at this point.

 

I'd expect brain fog to abate as your other issues do. SMR will improve sleep, which should improve feelings of cognitive impairment. The protocols for ADD/ADHD, which are conditions often present with persistent brain fog, are SMR training, SCP training, and theta/beta ratio training, with SMR training arguably being the go-to first protocol to try. Check out the first book I recommended for full coverage of ADD treatment.

Edited by golgi1, 31 July 2015 - 07:37 AM.

[Raza]

One last thing, I'm trying to understand what the neural difference between broad-band synchrony and seizure activity is, as this also displays strong synchrony across wide brain structures. Perhaps the latter is run-away synchrony, while the former is controlled? What's interesting is that the reported phenomenology (the structure of phenomena) of temporal lobe epilepsy is very similar to reported states of 'enlightenment'.

 

F'you're still wondering: a seizure starts with pathological overexcitation spreading from a (bunch of) neuron(s) whose firing somehow got out of control, and ends up effecting wide range synchrony through a chain reaction, each neuron receiving the signal getting sufficiently excited to make everything within it's own reach fire, in turn. Synchrony between areas is typically indicative of causal interaction, either the areas affecting eachother or both being affected by a common source. However, wide range synchrony is not necessarily pathological overexcitation; when you're doing neurofeedback to achieve global synchrony, presumably the idea is to get all those areas of your brain coordinating on a common 'task', with top-down executive control reaching out to all of those subordinate areas and recruiting them into an ad hoc functional assembly. Normally, this happens whenever you do anything, but brain regions you actually need for the task at hand are recruited selectively; your PFC is like, "you, you and you! Pay attention. I need you working together to processing X and decide whether Y is applicable to it", and then there will be (often passing, or phased) synchrony of some sort between the PFC area doing the controlling and the areas recruited for the task. Getting your whole cortex to do that together isn't really normal, unless it's for something like sleeping, but if you learn to do it intentionally it's probably not going to turn into a seizure, since its only ordinary, controlled activity being coordinated. Sparse, task oriented firing, not everyone shouting at full volume all at once. Getting your whole brain to work together on doing nothing in particular likely wouldn't increase overall neuron spiking; would probably decrease it, even. Especially if you're doing alpha or theta, which in the cortex are inhibitory feedback frequencies (I'm not sure whether full-cortex gamma synchrony would be healthy or even possible, but frontoparietal gamma synchrony is pretty ordinary). It's just that the firing that was going on would be synchronised, rather than desynchronized activity from uncoordinated parallel background processing and resting state noise.

[BlueCloud]

 

 

My Muse will reach me in a week or two, so then I will at least be able to comment on the difference compared to the MindWave devices.

 

 

Did you receive your Muse ? I'm about to buy one myself . Care to comment on your experience with it ?

[BlueCloud]

 

 

 

My Muse will reach me in a week or two, so then I will at least be able to comment on the difference compared to the MindWave devices.

 

 

Did you receive your Muse ? I'm about to buy one myself . Care to comment on your experience with it ?

 

 

Well, I'll be answering my own question soon, since I just bought a Muse myself. Will report once I spend sometime with it.

[VastEmptiness]

since i get asked this quite alot, i decided to put up what i consider the best neurofeedback setup in terms of cost-efficiency to get at the moment. i have no affiliation with brain-trainer whatsoever (too bad), i'm just really happy with their product and customer service.

 

cost-efficient Q-wiz setup (roughly 2000EUR) by VE

 

essential resources:

 

https://brain-traine...cket-neurobics/

https://brain-traine...rer-quickstart/

https://brain-traine...ir-heg-headset/

 

-Q-wiz amplifier for all kinds of neurofeedback incl. 4 channel EEG

-Bioexplorer software and lifetime subscription of brain-trainer.com protocols

-nIR headband to train blood flow to prefrontal cortex

 

2x https://brain-traine...uct/snap-leads/

2x https://brain-traine...bs-neurotrodes/

2x https://brain-traine...-paste-package/

alternative: silver electrodes

optional: https://brain-traine...lip-electrodes/ - snap in electrodes can be used behind the ears as well, i guess the earflaps are worth it for simplicity

 

add import taxes outside of US! you also might want to plan in a little money for consultations with professionals, as they might really kickstart your practice by looking over your shoulder. for example if you purchase TAGsync (see below), afaik there is some consultation included. same thing for the brain-trainer protocols.

 

 

recommended resources:

 

https://brain-traine...-training-plan/ - interpretation of your recorded QEEG data by a professional to guide you towards specifically training your symptoms/goals (protocols included in the software package)

 

https://brain-traine...me-for-nir-heg/ - neat little game to train HEG

http://www.mindsupplies.com/store.htm - TAGx2 or TAGx2+TAGx1, see www.tagsync.com and http://www.longecity...and-discussion/

 

 

advanced resources:

 

https://brain-traine...with-auto-plan/ - software to automatically do assessments out of your recorded data

https://brain-traine...tro-cap-system/ - cap system to make placement/assessment easier. it’s recommended to use electrodes for training because of the limited lifetime of the cap at it’s high price

 

 

alternative source of future gels etc. in europe (no tax):

http://www.medcat.de/supplies/gels.htm

 

[thebrainstore]

Brain trainer is still out of my price range, but I have acquired an OpenBCI with BioEra.

 

Can anyone help me get started by providing a BioEra protocol that I could tweak?

 

I am trying to read that development manual with a damaged brain and it's not going too well!

[Crowstream]

Would like to help you spektrolyte but unfortunately I have no experience using BioEra and no designs either... Pretty much all of the good designs I have seen for sale have been for BioExplorer.

 

I did take a look at BioEra with the trial version and it did seem quite complicated.. I have made some designs in BioExplorer so I know a little bit about filters and such, if you have some questions you can ask me and maybe I will know  .

[VastEmptiness]

Brain trainer is still out of my price range, but I have acquired an OpenBCI with BioEra.

 

Can anyone help me get started by providing a BioEra protocol that I could tweak?

 

I am trying to read that development manual with a damaged brain and it's not going too well!

 

i'm not having any experience in that regard either. what did you pay for the setup? when i have some spare time and money in the future i'd like to try to build a 32 channel open bci setup with a cap and look into the free alternatives to bioexplorer. i feel that bioexplorer is a pretty shitty software and the price is pretty ridiculous (specifically since its not getting updated), however the brain trainer system alone is a reason for me to keep recommending it until there is a better alternative. in many cases you're better off saving up a larger amount rather than buying the cheaper alternative and maybe even paying twice if it doesn't work out :/

if you're trying to reverse engineer the tagsync design, you can easily load it's free demo into the free trial of bioexplorer and look into how it's built there. it's actually a very simple design once you understand the basics.