Alright, here we go.
I've ordered Lion's Mane and bulk ALCAR, upon investigation of research and anecdotal evidence it seems like it could help quite a bit, pretty excited to try it. Additionally I did research on olanzapine (Zyprexa) and amisulpride and it looks like they're both equally effective and statistically proven to help with negatives, how I missed this in my month long obsessive research binge I do not know. I'd like to take a little more time to flush out what I'm currently trying and do a little more research on the brain atrophy issue before trying it but at the moment I'm pretty excited about that as well.
Other than that I bought some high EPA fish oil from the store (should've just waited and ordered online..) some D3, and some quality multi's. Between that and sarcosine I'm feeling a litlte better I think, on a moment to moment basis I'm a bit less freaked out and red lined. My day to day awareness is so wishy washy that it's hard to tell sometimes if something is having a direct positive affect unless it's quite substantial, such as the modafinil. That's immediately obvious. Everything else seems to follow the pattern of just happening to notice that hey, at this moment I kind of feel ok, hmmm I wonder if it's because x,y,z. It's never overwhelmingly profound. The major problems still exist but I'm definitely a bit calmer moment to moment. The core problems are still there but it's nice to just feel ok for a little while sometimes.
That should cover a good portion of the discussion but I'll respond to individual stuff too.
i´ve been thinking that you also might be prodromal, i´ve read about schizo´s having negative symptoms for years before they got schizophrenia. it´s normal ¨progression´ to first have negative symptoms and then positive, although usually it goes faster. But don´t stare blind on one diagnoses, it might also be major depression or something else. Do you have existential thoughts or feelings?
you do have to keep realistic and it might be possible to never get back to how it was before. I wanted that too, but it's probably not completely possible. Hopefully you reach a point that your oke to setlle, even if it's a bit lower then before, but then you should already be content.
I think zyprexa or some other antipsychotic might help you with alogia, since it works in improven the tempral lobe and that's the speach center. i notice it improved my speach and i too suffered from terrible speach problems. My whole syntax was messed up and i couldn't form a normal sentence.
NGF peptides, like in lion's mane or cerebrolysin, might help with some other negative symptoms and i think they might help with the two other you suffer from. there are people saying they reckonise body language more while on cerebrolysin, and i personally feel more need for social contact with my NGF stack.
a word of precaution : don't rush too carelessly into things, take it easy and take one thing at the time. Don't overdose on things and meanwhile keep yourself busy with other things.
about my condition. i have no idea what i have, but i don't think i have the common genetic form of schizophrenia, but more a dissociative disorder with psychotic symptoms. Some docs say i have psychotic depression, some say i have schizophrenia and my current says i have mild schizophrenia ánd and dissociative disorder (and cfs). i think there's a good change time might heal me, since i got stuff after one big nasty burn out.
I do worry about the zyprexa and brain atrophy and to counter that i take n-acetylcysteine and lion's mane and other ngf stuff, since i read in a research paper that the brain atrophy might be because of lowering of ngf in de frontal lobe and hippocampus. I feel pretty good on it, and that's why i keep taking it. It's a bit of a grey area though, since the websites claiming it's brain damage are from alternative healing websites and the websites claiming it's neuroprotective might be some pharmaceutical propaganda.
I think a combo of low dose antipscyhotic for the alogia and a NGF stack and modafinil, might improve you big time.
Yeah I have that fear in the back of my mind as well, although as more and more time passes that seems less and less likely. My sanity feels infinitely solid it's just muh brain havin a few hiccups atm.
I think if I can reach a place where I can comfortably socialize and just be able to effectively express myself I'll be fine. I don't need to feel like a super genius I just wan't to be able to function normally. I used to be so adamant about displaying my intelligence which I don't care about too much anymore. I just want to be able to be free. Once I can break through that point I feel like I'll be capable of pursuing anything I want to without questioning whether my brain problems will hold me back.
I'll definitely check out the neuroprotective properties of the NAC/NGF. That's very interesting
reading your posts again it does sound like dementia preacox (schizophrenia), but you should definitely see somebody to get a proper diagnose, cause it might be also for example be some other mental disease or some rare premature dementia case (like fronto temperal dementia..i don't wanna play house, but you never know). do you feel somethimes 'dement'? example : impulses to strange behaviour, like siting somewhere outside, feel and impulse to poo and realise one second later you shouldn't do that outside. Schizo's often feel dement, but so do major depressed people, and some other psychiatric diseases. zyprexa helped me with that feeling, yes i feel ashamed to admit a bit that i was such a dement case that i almost did really inappropriate stuff.
anyways, i stick with my opinion that you should try stuff (with precaution) to counter the degeneration which is unfortunately probably going on (Same here) with things like coconut oil, fish oil, eggs with runny eggs yolks, lion's mane, aswagandha, turmeric, ALCAR, n-acetylcysteine, pqq, cerebrolysin, exercise to name a few.
edit : one other typical schizophrenic symptom is that everything feels very easily like too much and too stressfull. difficult to comprehend. if i'm not mistaking you already said you had that so that also point in this direction . Do you somethimes feel life's too complicated to handle, and that you feel like you need help with things?
Ummm no I don't usually have any unusual impulses, I think I have had some funny thoughts a few times in the past just because I realized wow I have no emotional or situational awareness of these social interactions I could totally do something off the wall at any moment and not be phased lol. But maybe only a few times in the whole time period. I could definitely see that becoming a problem if you became paranoid about it, I just sort of brushed it off.
I've never really been prone to stress in my life I could never really relate to being stressed out as funny as that sounds, but I can very much relate to just mentally being unable to process demanding work situations. Like if the boss came in and made some major overhauls of our work routines I would have to kind of take a personal break and reflect on everything and why it happened, and that usually doesn't work out so well as I have a hard time remembering exactly what happened. I mostly just end up in confusion. It definitely prevents me from attempting to get a more demanding/higher paying job. I'm just not sure if I could pick it up fast enough. Give me enough time and I can do anything but some jobs I qualify for are pretty intimidating. I don't know if I'd be able to learn at the pace they would expect of a normal person.
What was your dose and frequency for pregnenolone? I'm curious after reading your posts and then this other thread on pregnenolone and schizophrenia.
I would take 3g in the morning and 2g at night. I don't remember why, but I decided upon that amount in that way. I started taking it a while ago sometimes I forget exact details, I should probably have a regimen journal. Honestly i don't even remember why decided it was a supplement I needed to continue to take, I put it on auto monthly order. Absolutely nothing has helped me more than minuscule amounts aside from modafinil. But from my research pregnenolone can be very effective for some people.
It think those doses are way too high. I've been reading about pregnenolone lately, and haven't come across anything higher than a 500mg dose, and that was very rare. As Heraclitus suggested, you might want to cut it down to a more sensible dose, e.g. start at 30 or 50mg and go from there. Also, having your pregnenolone levels (and others like DHEA and progesterone) tested before and after would be a good idea to ensure things are indeed getting better instead of worse.
Yeah I remember when I was researching that most doses were in those ranges and initially I was taking the little 25 mg tabs but for some reason I started buying higher doses, can't remember why.
I think some of you underestimate Pregnenolone, even in healthy people Preg has health benefits with almost no downsides.. In the thread-link from Heraclitus I've already explained the effects of Preg on me, you should give Preg time to build up in the brain.
Wohooo Zyprexa helping negatives, I won't believe that in a million years, Zyprexa and me were old friends, he always fucked me over instead of helping me 
Like already mentioned, I think you should go with Amulsupride, next to study's I heard more people saying it helps negs in low dosages.
And if you find benefits from stimulants, that confirms somewhat our assumption that you are not schizophrenics (most schizo's can't tolerate stims, only maybe Vyvanse which has Lysine molecule bound to it).
I did some research on both of those (Zyprexa/Amisulpride) and the effectiveness of treating the negs was statistically significant and nearly equal in both. I've seen a lot of positive reports with Zyprexa that's a bummer it didn't work so well for you. It looks like Zyprexa may be my only choice though as apparently Amisulpride isn't FDA approved in the U.S. Very strange.
As far as the stimulants go I tolerated the Adderal very well but with the Vyvanse it was a nightmare man. It would be cool when it was in my system but it gave me like a guaranteed 2 weeks of hellish chemical induced depression, every time I tried it. I refuse to ever take that stuff again. I did that cycle several times too, it's a very seductive drug. It's pretty great when you're on it. Everything is just awesome.
Hi,
You wrote that You;
cant think straight,
cant plan and organize properly,
blunt in facial emotions
have almost a completly lack of affect ( incl. alogia and other)
cant socialize and dont care much about.
This looks for me quiet like a Cannabis induced disorder, since I got the same symptoms but with a varying degree.
None of the Meds/Sups which doesnt work for You, worked for me.
Therefore my suspicion.
Except: Ehtylphenidate, sometimes in combination with other substances. Who I have now to pay the bill for it..
and low dose 50- 100 mg Amisulpride which wasnt overwhelming, since the desensitation cames fast, and for me to take lifelong substance XY isnt a solution.
The reason why Noradrenaline reputake inhibitors "should" help, like in the case of Negative symptoms in schizophrenia is
because the uptake of dopamine in the Mesocortical pathway is triggered by it, unlike in the Mesolimbic structures where they uptake is triggered by dopamine itself.
The same case is for 5-ht2a antagonist. These receptors inhibit dopamine release in the Mesocortical pathway (which is as well related to the negative symptoms) increase the dopamine content in the Mesolimbic pathway( 5-ht2c receptors do the opposite) and so in the Striatum
The Striatum is responsible for motor function( maybe facial expression as well ?), mood, affect and processing information along with the thalamus (correct me if I´m wrong) as well for diseases like Ocd, depression, addiction, Parkinson.
I read somewhere that, in regards to the affect, everthing stands and falls with the function of the Striatum.
I have to add that venlafaxin, wich increases overall 5-ht and NE transmission didnt help me at all, so therefore I have no explanation why it didnt help.
So, Thc increases dopamine in the Striatum (curiously both cannabinoid receptor 1 agonist and antagonist increase dopamine) but on the longterm it leads to a decrease. As far as I understand the papers, leads Thc transietly to a decrease of Tyrosine Hydrooxylase in the striatum.
Doesnt sound bad, but when consumed in adolesence, it can have lasting effects ( maybe due bad organisation of synapses or abortisation ? I dont know)
and in addition, the problems are not related to a single areal.
A research abstract about Striatum and Thc
http://www.ncbi.nlm....pubmed/22909787
So I still dont know for My and maybe Your case, which brain regions are ultimately responsible since they are all connected. As a example increasing glutamate in the Striatum leads to an increase of dopamine in the PFC( prefrontal cortex) and vica versa, or the hippocampus which is responsible for brain wave modulation
Btw researcher have shown: an abnormal brain wave pattern in Cannabis abusers as well as lasting decreased dopamine transmission in the prefrontal cortex which is transiently alleviated by ampethamine.
If You take a look at Wiki it might explain one of Your symptoms:
Studies have shown cannabidiol decreases activity of the limbic system[14] and decreases social isolation induced by THC.[15]
http://en.wikipedia....iki/Cannabidiol
Since You live in the Usa, You could give Cannabidiol (CBD) a try and maybe Amisulpride, a reversible Mao-b inhibitor like hordenine or green oat extract ( e.g. Neuravena)
which is a pde-4 inhibitor as well, because those worked at least for me.
http://dixiebotanica...p-oil-capsules/
Hope that I could help You.
Dont give up the Hope who knows what the near Future is capable to serve.
Even without many social contacts You can get a comfortable Life with Your loved ones.
Trust me, Life can be worser, like as I made it out of desperation with Ethylphenidate and others, I couldnt even enjoy the things that I used to, just like a robot.
Very very interesting stuff. Before I started to consider what my problems really were and what caused them I would occasionally smoke weed again and it was pretty hit or miss but interestingly enough when I did have a favorable high it did put some of my problems into a remission. I'm definitely drawn towards trying CBD, but from what I read it's absurdly expensive.
Yeah I overlooked this in my OP but I actually was on Venlafaxine (Effexor) for about 8 or 9 months. It didn't really have any effects and I was mostly on it out of pure desperation and pressure from my doctor that I needed an anti depressant.
Thank you though for getting technical with your observations, I have a hard time getting myself to dig into that stuff so I'll definitely dissect this when I'm ready. I'm gonna take a few days off of the obsessive research to relax myself a bit but this will be one of the first things on my list.
A few years later Caspi et al. (2005) took this genetic approach and assessed the catechol-O-methyltransferase (COMT) gene. Their rationale for this is that COMT is involved in the metabolism of dopamine in the prefrontal cortex and dopaminergic deregulation is thought to play a role in the pathogenesis of schizophrenia. The authors concluded that the link between cannabis and psychosis was moderated by a COMT gene polymorphism. That is, cannabis users in their teen years who carried the COMPT valine allele were the most likely to develop psychotic symptoms. On the other hand, teens with two copies of the methionine allele did not present this risk even when using cannabis. This study presented some strong evidence for the stress diathesis model of cannabis and psychosis.
http://cannabisandps...ity-hypothesis/
Your genetic makeup plays a huge role. There are people who can smoke cannabis all day without developing schizophrenic symptoms and others who are vulnerable and increase their risk immensely.
Have you ever abused alcohol? There's a tendency in psychiatry to leave out alcohol and focus on cannabis when it comes to schizophrenia. I stopped drinking alcohol a couple of months ago and it's one of the best steps I've done to get better. Getting drunk every week or every other week really had a huge negative impact on my mental health.
edit: Do you socially withdraw yourself? I don't seem to have many negative symptoms, but that's the one I struggle with the most. I tend to isolate myself despite enjoying other people's company. This has been going on for years and I didn't even realize it until I got really sick.
I've drank quite a bit of alcohol in my life, in binge amounts as well. My social circle drinks quite a bit, and I enjoy it a lot myself but ever since this problem came about I tend to binge almost every time we party. I've seriously considered not drinking at all but sometimes it's pretty hard to pass up. Probably drink 2-3 times a month.
I definitely socially withdrawal myself. Weekends I tend to go through the motions and go out and do things because I genuinely really want to (different from able to) and it keeps me feeling normal. If I closed off the weekends and started just hiding out at home that would not be good, I don't think I'd let myself either I want to enjoy my life as much as I can. I've refused to submit to it. Before all of this I had a fairly large group of friends and acquaintances and I'd make new ones all the time and just naturally go with the flow hey let's go here wanna do this? Sure why not. Now I only partake in a select few as I just can't commit to new relationships because I can't create those bonds. It ends up always being these forced unnatural one sided relationships that I can't enjoy and end up just being a huge huge mental burden. A lot of guilt comes with that too. Ignored phone calls and messages and the such, broken connections. I find being alone, while depressing, is sometimes my best choice. I want nothing more than to go out and be free but I've banged my head against that wall for so many years, it just doesn't work. So I've accepted a certain amount of isolation.
i think Flex is right about the dopamine in the prefrontal cortex and that i was wrong about the temperal lobe, speach areas are also in the frontal lobe. there's probably more involved so it is probably a rough scetch. I would also look for stuff increasing Nerve growth factor in the prefrontal cortex and it's highly possible you won't react to lion's mane since it's (if im not mistaking) mainly known for increasing NGF in the hippocampus. i did a quick search and found somebody saying on longecity that cymbalta increases ngf in the prefrontal cortex. NGF might increase dopamine, so it might improve you,just like stimulants and glutamate agnoists, which also increase dopamine.
edit : i would give cerebrolysin a try, it also works on the pre frontal cortex
I belive Effexor (Venlafaxine) is the generic brand of Cymbalta, which I should've already mentioned I was on for about 9 months. It didn't really do anything it was just a severely desperate time for me. I was also hoping it would have that stimulant type effect, but no luck :(
It's becoming apparent that I should start doing some more serious research on exact functions of exact areas of the brain, which areas coincide with certain diseases, what drugs I've tried and what areas are affected by the drugs that have worked for me and the like. I'll probably make a spreadsheet and throw it up on here and see what you guys think. I've kind of been avoiding that level of detail but I think it's about time I start. I think I really felt like I didn't deserve to have to be put through something like that, like really universe? It's bad enough I have this problem but now I have to devote half my life to studying biochemistry? but if that's what it's going to take, I should probably just do it.
Also, I'll google that, thanks dude
Regarding affect i can Report something.
In the time when i consumed ethylphenidate i mixed it with weed and a bit maprotiline.
I was like outchanged, the flat affect that i suffered was gone, i laughed and could Talk about anything the whole night without a break !
The next day when i took mitrazapine the talk active state was completly abolished, so i assume that 1) it has something to do with a2 adrenergic blockade 2) with 5-ht2 blockade, which in turn would mean that there is a subcortical implication or 3) something Different.
Dont missunderstand me i dont want to encourage someone to try this mixture!! As i allready told, this brought me to my current Situation, and i would gladly reverse it.
I just want to point out a possible explanation or cause for the affective impairment caused by Thc
There is something that i've forgotten.
Quentiapine 100mg)has helped me to a relative good extend, even better than Amisulpride.
It increases the "Power" to speak, so to say and some cognitive issues, but impairs sleep.
So if you are interrested, consider that it could cause bloodclotting disorders i.e. Thikens the blood which can be fatal.
Alright so just to be clear, you're talking about Ethylphenidate and not Methylphenidate (Ritalin)?
I really feel you on the power to speak thing, there's just absolutely no oomph behind my ability to speak. It's so forced and unnatural. I cannot relate to how people can talk for extended amounts of time, I'm genuinely baffled. It's time's like those that I seriously recognize a problem. And again thank you for being technical those are some really important pieces of the puzzle for me, pretty soon here I'm going to start a deeper level of research into the receptors and pathways that I've been avoiding for a while.
Alright thank you again guys so much for helping me with this. I have a pretty solid support group through my mother and a couple friends but this kind of discussion gives me more hope than anything, I can only take so much from supportive talks. So thank you very much, I've got a bunch of new leads and have already ordered a few things. I'm going to take a day or so off from the obsessive research to rest my mind but I'll be checking the forums every day.
Later guys!
