18 replies to this topic

[NeuroGeneration]

So, I'm in agreement with most people, that Adderall is not the safest of drugs to be using, and should be avoided at all costs for recreational use. However, for some of us, it's necessary, or at least a major help for focus. After having learned about the risks, I stopped cold turkey - probably not the best idea - and suffered from withdrawal (minor signs of depression - lack of excitement, motivation, desires, etc.). If there's something to take from the experience, however, it's my newfound respect for the substance (not that I ever abused it; I just didn't realize the power), and the value I place in protecting myself while using it.

I've done a bunch of research and experimented with myself, and decided I'd post my thoughts for all of you to possibly derive value from, as well as for you to punch holes through...

What I Do To Reduce Adderall's Risk Profile:

Dose Control

• I now stick with very low dosages. In the past, I found value from the energy and "high" that it provided, in getting me motivated. However, when I eased back in, I took 5mg (instead of my former dose of 20mg). I didn't "feel" anything. But, much like Provigil / Modafinil, or caffeine, the effects were apparent. I am able to spend hours upon hours focused - something that I wasn't able to do without it. An added benefit of this is that there isn't the temptation to take more, when you aren't feeling the "high".
• I never take Adderall two days in a row. I feel that this is a surefire way to build it up in your system, not to allow yourself adequate time for recovery, and to become dependent on it. The day after Adderall is my day of cleansing and detox.

Neurotoxicity

• PRE-ADDERALL (hour -1): In the morning, I'll take NAC and mitochondrial support in the form of Ubiquinol, PQQ & Astaxanthin. I'll also take creatine, for the sake of reducing glutamate toxicity. I take antioxidants (A, C, E, D, K), along with DHA/EPA & krill oil, to strengthen my defenses against ROS & RNS.
• WITH ADDERALL (hours 0-2): Studies have found that Ritalin can actually be protective, when taken along with Adderall. Therefore, I take them together - about 5mg of Adderall, 2.5mg of Ritalin at hour 0, then 2.5mg of Ritalin at hour 2 (since Ritalin has a shorter half-life than Adderall).
• DURING ADDERALL (hours 2-4): Antioxidants. Blueberries, matcha green tea.
• POST ADDERALL (hours 6-8): NAC, L-Carnosine, ALCAR, ALA, Vitamin C for acidity and free radical scavenging.
• NIGHT / BED (Hours 14+): Adrenal support formula, melatonin (mcg range, not mg), additional vitamin C (500mg), magnesium threonate. I also use a home-made skin cream, to combat the skin aging effects that Adderall is known to have
• DAY AFTER: In addition to my normal stack of nutrients, glutathione, to restore whatever I Iost, and inositol & UMP (to plump back up my dopamine receptor density
• Note: I never drink alcohol on the same day as Adderall -- I see it as a one-two punch to my neurons.

Cardiovascular

I'm not nearly as concerned about this, for a few reasons. However, you may need to take care.
The reasons I'm not as concerned is that I am extremely physically active and healthy, continually monitor my blood pressure, heart rate, HRV, etc. I also don't have a genetic predisposition to heart disease, and no familial history, despite crappy diets. Plus, my diet is obsessively "clean", consisting of tons of organic greens, grass fed liver, free range chicken eggs, berries, grass fed whey protein, etc. I believe it to be conducive to good health.

I hope this helps anyone who's looking for it. I'd love for your critiques! (and I can't get rid of that damn 1., below!!)

[LawsonGow]

GREAT post. Thanks so much, really informative. I have one question about your off days: you mentioned UMP, what is that?

Thanks again for the post, I have been looking for information about this.

[SirReal]

Excellent post, would you mind sharing what is in the adrenal support formula?

[NeuroGeneration]

LawsonGow - UMP is Uridine Monophosphate. Mr. Happy has a great thread about it and the "Happy Stack", which considering how many eggs I eat (choline) and the amount of DHA & B vitamins I consume, I'm technically following the "Happy Stack" on days off. Here's a link to page 1 of 81 ;-) http://www.longecity...ne-uridine-dha/

SirReal - I use this adrenal formula: http://www.longecity...ne-uridine-dha/
It contains rhodiola, holy basil leaf, ashwagagandha root, and schisandra berry. Considering that adaptogens help the body to cope with stress, and reduce the strain on the adrenals - two things that I believe Adderall is having a negative effect on - I feel this is a good formula to calm, clean up & reset the system with, at the end of the day.

[NeuroGeneration]

An update on my recommendations:

 

This study demonstrates the value of using Ubiquinol or CoQ10, with Adderall (or, technically, methamphetamine): Klongpanichapak S, Govitrapong P, Sharma SK, Ebadi M. Attenuation of cocaine and methamphetamine neurotoxicity by coenzyme Q10. Neurochemical Research. 2006;31(3):303–311.[PubMed]

 

I'm beginning to use melatonin to protect against Adderall's neurotoxicity. Although this study administers it pre-Adderall, since Adderall can be in the system 24 hours+ post-administration, I figure taking the melatonin at night, which displays antioxidant like effects, would still be beneficial: Klongpanichapak S, Phansuwan-Pujito P, Ebadi M, Govitrapong P. Melatonin protects SK-N-SH neuroblastoma cells from amphetamine-induced neurotoxicity. JPineal Res. 2007;43(1):65–73.[PubMed]

 

"The antioxidants, selenium and melatonin, have been reported to completely block the formation of 3-nitrotyrosine and striatal DA depletion (Imam et al., 2001a)"

 

Additional evidence for the use of NAC, shortly after taking Adderall (I wait a few hours): Achat-Mendes C, Anderson KL, Itzhak Y. Impairment in consolidation of learned place preference following dopaminergic neurotoxicity in mice is ameliorated by N-acetylcysteine but not D1 and D2 dopamine receptor agonists. Neuropsychopharmacology. 2007;32(3):531–541. [PubMed]

 

Multiple studies have found that methamphetamine (as opposed to Adderall, which is an amphetamine - but very similar to meth) toxicity is reduced, when the dose is titrated up. So, I'd recommend if you're prescribed, say, 20mg, start with 5 for a few days, then 10, then 15, before hitting 20 (if you even need that much). Also, it may be good to split the pills, and take half, (say, 5mg) then the other half after an hour (the other 5mg, in the case of a 10mg dose).

 

 

And some more goodies of information: 

 

"The idea that oxidative stress may play a role in METH-induced cell death is also supported by findings showing that decline in mitochondrial membrane potential, increase in the levels of ROS and apoptosis in human dopaminergic neuroblastoma SH-SY5Y cell line are attenuated by vitamin E (Wu et al., 2007)."

 

"METH-induced death in CATH.a cells is also attenuated by the antioxidant, glutathione, and by inhibitors of DA synthesis and release (Choi et al., 2002). Moreover, overexpression of glutathione peroxidase in PC12 cells protects against drug-related increases in ROS production, lipid peroxidation and cell death (Hom et al., 1997)."

 

 

 

Avoid very hot temperatures, especially physical activity in hot, humid climates: "Similarly, prevention of hyperthermia blocked METH-induced increase in a marker of hydroxyl radicals, dihydroxybenzoic acid, and attenuated decrease in TPH activity 1 hour after drug treatment (Fleckenstein et al., 1997). In contrast, hyperthermia has been shown to exacerbate METH toxicity (Albers and Sonsalla, 1995; Bowyer et al., 1992)"

 

"It appears that DA may play role in METH-induced dysfunction of the ubiquitin-proteasome system and in the formation of cytplasmic inclusions because both are attenuated by inhibition of DA synthesis with the TH inhibitor, α-methyp-p-tyrosine (Fornai et al., 2004b) This effect was reversed with L-DOPA, which restored intracellular DA levels (Fornai et al., 2004b)."

 

 

Edited by NeuroGeneration, 19 April 2014 - 12:22 AM.

[Ritchie]

You also try adding in a serotonin precursor like tryptophan to help balance your serotonin system because dopamine depletes serotonin(and amphetamine releases ALOT of dopamine).

I've also been curious, wouln't combining adderall with a vasodilator take some of the stress of the cardiovascular system? I've been looking at Ginkgo Biloba as a possible vasodilator.

[NeuroGeneration]

You also try adding in a serotonin precursor like tryptophan to help balance your serotonin system because dopamine depletes serotonin(and amphetamine releases ALOT of dopamine).

I've also been curious, wouln't combining adderall with a vasodilator take some of the stress of the cardiovascular system? I've been looking at Ginkgo Biloba as a possible vasodilator.

 

 

I actually do take l-tryptophan, but I add it to my morning collagen protein drink. I suspect it doesn't have the same effect on the serotonin system as if I took it in isolation. From what I understand, Adderall actually increases serotonin (along with dopamine [most significantly], norepinephrine and glutamate). Take a look at this (source: http://www.progressi...-adderall.htm):

 

Amphetamine acts as stimulant by increasing the levels of serotonin, norepinephrine but most especially dopamine in the brain. However, although it increases the levels of these neurotransmitters, the effects produced vary from one area of the brain to another.

 

For example, amphetamine has the biggest effect on the serotonin pathway in select areas of the brain including the mesocorticolimbic projection.

In addition, amphetamine increases the excitatory activity of glutamatergic neurons through serotonin (serotonin receptors control the release of glutamate, another neurotransmitter).

 

Glutamate is the primary excitatory neurotransmitter in the brain and by increasing its release (through serotonin), amphetamines produce some of the stimulant effect. In addition, this serotonin link is believed to be responsible for the addictive potential of amphetamines.

 

There are also a lot of risks with taking SSRIs, SNRIs, and tricyclic antidepressants, which makes me suspect of the risks of taking serotonin precursors.

 

Regarding vasodilation, as I mentioned in my initial post, I'm not nearly as concerned with that, and haven't done any research on it. In theory, a vasodilator sounds helpful, as long as there aren't any contraindications. My first reaction though is that I would be careful with ginkgo in particular, since it seems to increase the efficacy of substances crossing the BBB. Maybe it would call for a reduced dose of Adderall? There are many others on Longecity who could answer your questions better than I can, but that's my two cents.

Edited by NeuroGeneration, 23 April 2014 - 12:27 AM.

[Ritchie]

You also try adding in a serotonin precursor like tryptophan to help balance your serotonin system because dopamine depletes serotonin(and amphetamine releases ALOT of dopamine).
I've also been curious, wouln't combining adderall with a vasodilator take some of the stress of the cardiovascular system? I've been looking at Ginkgo Biloba as a possible vasodilator.

 
 
I actually do take l-tryptophan, but I add it to my morning collagen protein drink. I suspect it doesn't have the same effect on the serotonin system as if I took it in isolation. From what I understand, Adderall actually increases serotonin (along with dopamine [most significantly], norepinephrine and glutamate). Take a look at this (source: http://www.progressi...-adderall.htm):
 

Amphetamine acts as stimulant by increasing the levels of serotonin, norepinephrine but most especially dopamine in the brain. However, although it increases the levels of these neurotransmitters, the effects produced vary from one area of the brain to another.

 

For example, amphetamine has the biggest effect on the serotonin pathway in select areas of the brain including the mesocorticolimbic projection.

In addition, amphetamine increases the excitatory activity of glutamatergic neurons through serotonin (serotonin receptors control the release of glutamate, another neurotransmitter).

 

Glutamate is the primary excitatory neurotransmitter in the brain and by increasing its release (through serotonin), amphetamines produce some of the stimulant effect. In addition, this serotonin link is believed to be responsible for the addictive potential of amphetamines.

 

There are also a lot of risks with taking SSRIs, SNRIs, and tricyclic antidepressants, which makes me suspect of the risks of taking serotonin precursors.
 
Regarding vasodilation, as I mentioned in my initial post, I'm not nearly as concerned with that, and haven't done any research on it. In theory, a vasodilator sounds helpful, as long as there aren't any contraindications. My first reaction though is that I would be careful with ginkgo in particular, since it seems to increase the efficacy of substances crossing the BBB. Maybe it would call for a reduced dose of Adderall? There are many others on Longecity who could answer your questions better than I can, but that's my two cents.

Yes, I've been looking at a vasodilator in general and ginkgo biloba seems like the least psychoactive. In theory, all vasodilators should make stimulants more effective due to increased blood flow. Interesting article about Adderall, I did not know that adderall actually released serotonin. I always assumed depression from adderall use stemmed from serotonin depletion rather than serotonin down regulation. In this case, maybe adaptogens are in order?
Have you heard of Jiaogulan? It's an herb that has been shown to not only stop but actually reverse damage to the dopamine and norepinephrine systems(http://www.ncbi.nlm....pubmed/20428081).

[NeuroGeneration]

Yes I have. I actually take jiaogulan quite regularly. Thanks for your link, though - I hadn't seen this study. And thanks for the reminder - I had forgotten about Jiaogulan in my initial post.

 

You should look into UMP, or the Mr. Happy Stack, which I take on my off days. In terms of adaptogens, the adrenal support formula that I mentioned contains them, most notably, rhodiola.

Edited by NeuroGeneration, 23 April 2014 - 08:16 PM.

[NeuroGeneration]

Yes, I've been looking at a vasodilator in general and ginkgo biloba seems like the least psychoactive. In theory, all vasodilators should make stimulants more effective due to increased blood flow. Interesting article about Adderall, I did not know that adderall actually released serotonin. I always assumed depression from adderall use stemmed from serotonin depletion rather than serotonin down regulation. In this case, maybe adaptogens are in order?
Have you heard of Jiaogulan? It's an herb that has been shown to not only stop but actually reverse damage to the dopamine and norepinephrine systems(http://www.ncbi.nlm....pubmed/20428081).

 

Regarding your vasoconstrictive concerns, this is from a 2011 Longecity post (http://www.longecity...s-side-effects/):

 

"To combat adderall's vasocontrictive effects, I take low doses of gotu kola, horse chestnut (standardized for hesperidin), butcher's broom, and cayenne at night to improve circulation. I take two of them nightly and cycle throughput the week. Also, I take Ginko phytosome and vinpocetine (both vasodilators) on days when I don't take adderall."

Edited by NeuroGeneration, 23 April 2014 - 08:20 PM.

[ChrisP]

What face cream should I use.

[irony]

interesting ideas.

 

I just started Evekeo, which is like adderall but instead of 75% dex-amph and 25% levo-amph, it is 50-50, like olde tyme benzedrine.

 

I'm going to try this stuff.    Doesn't the ALCAR give you insomnia?

 

I was also thinking l-methylfolate to replenish folate gobbled up by creating extra monoamines 

[josie1212]

Taking the melatonin in 500mcg dosages is the best option for sleep but the anti-oxidant properties are said to only be present in higher dosages (5mg+).

 

Anti-oxidant effects at 6mg

 

Anti-oxidant effects at 5mg

 

Take this with a grain of salt though because it is never stated that melatonin does not produce anti-oxidant effects in lower dosages but just that the studies have all used high dosages.

[gamesguru]

Im not sure about the vinpocetine uridine in this situation especially.

Something as simple as exercise, meditation, socialization, blueberries, kiwis, beet greens, broccoli, garlic, or red onion
beans and nuts too, beans have PQQ
grains have melatonin btw

"... sulfurophane was inducing deleterious changes in cancer cell mitochondria that eventually would carry the cell to death via apoptosis and also was protecting noncancer cell mitochondria against oxidative challenge, which prevented cell death"

Mitochondria accumulate large amounts of quercetin: prevention of mitochondrial damage and release upon oxidation of the extramitochondrial fraction of the flavonoid.

"... oxidative stress (MDA accumulation, ROS generation, reduced GSH activity), an increased expression of pro-apoptotic proteins, as well as damage to CA1 pyramidal neurons and the mitochondria... proanthocynanidin reversed PTZ-induced impaired performance in the MWM, oxidative stress, mitochondrial ROS generation, the expression of pro-apoptotic proteins and neuronal and mitochondrial damage. Thus, GSPE may reverse the hippocampal dysfunction, reducing oxidative stress and preserving mitochondrial function."

Edited by gamesguru, 22 May 2016 - 01:19 PM.

[John250]

Old post but what study shows it’s good to take Ritian with adderall? I’ve noticed if I take ritilan I can feel the effects of adderall.

[John250]

Old post but what study shows it’s good to take Ritian with adderall? I’ve noticed if I take ritilan I can feel the effects of adderall.

Shameless bump to this ?

[John250]

Any thoughts on highly advanced pharmaceuticals to prevent neurotoxicity like Methyllycaconitine (MLA) and Parkin(Trihexyphenidyl).

[BigGreenMat]

Also wouldn't taking an L-Tyrosine dose make sense for Adderall recovery since it is a precursor for dopamine?

[John250]

Also wouldn't taking an L-Tyrosine dose make sense for Adderall recovery since it is a precursor for dopamine?

I would think it would make sense to take it at night along with UMP and Inositol once the amphetamines out of your system to help restore lost dopamine.