Posted 27 June 2017 - 11:29 AM
I tried Cordychi from Host Defense which contains both Cordyceps 500 mg and Reishi 500 mg, taking 1 pill then increased to 2 pills. I noticed I was getting motivated for work after 2-3 months of use. That was frustratingly long period. I was going to give up after first month but preserved only because I read someone saying it worked for him after 3 months (forgot which brand he was taking but was different than mine). Also, i felt warm 'down there' after taking it but that only lasted for 2 hours. I'm not sure why I stopped it tho. Either I was getting tired of taking many pills, wasn't aware of what's it doing or the effect had faded. i will start take it again.
P.S This is for females. If you have irregular periods then take this. works every time.
oh btw how do you pronounce Cordyceps? Is it kordiceps?
Posted 04 December 2017 - 07:46 AM
Any updates on Cordyceps guys? For general motivation, depression, anhedonia, fatigue etc.
From my experience, not particularly helpful for any of the above. Good for respiratory, vascular, and sexual health - but not stimulating enough to be helpful for motivation, anhedonia, or depression.
Sedative and hypnotic effects of the fermentative broth of Cordyceps Sinensis
Posted 19 January 2018 - 11:23 AM
I notice tranquil energizing effect from Cordyceps. It's indeed not a stimulant itself. It also reduces effect of caffeine, makes it much smoother even a big mug of coffee. But on the other hand Cordyceps may increase the effects of other stimulants that work directly through dopamine/noradrenaline.
In my experience Cordyceps IS effective for motivation, anhedonia, and depression - don't need a stimulant for that.
Posted 19 January 2018 - 06:32 PM
I notice tranquil energizing effect from Cordyceps. It's indeed not a stimulant itself. It also reduces effect of caffeine, makes it much smoother even a big mug of coffee. But on the other hand Cordyceps may increase the effects of other stimulants that work directly through dopamine/noradrenaline.
In my experience Cordyceps IS effective for motivation, anhedonia, and depression - don't need a stimulant for that.
For me, it was definitely energizing, but not like a stimulant. It seemed to treat the fatigue I was feeling and increased both my physical and mental energy. By mental energy, I mean I could focus and think slightly more intensely than at baseline, but for a lot longer.
As for caffeine, I find it synergizes with it very well. My response to caffeine was that it made me more focused, alert, and just sharper overall. In comparison, Selegiline (after 2 weeks) + Caffeine just seems to greatly increase the stimulation and jittery effect while having a mild synergistic effect on cognition and focus. At baseline, I don't find caffeine effective at all other than a guaranteed chance I'll go to the bathroom shortly after ingestion.
For depression and anhedonia, yes, cordyceps is quite effective at treating them. It definitely seemed to reduce rumination and allow for new thought patterns, but the effect was mild. For anhedonia, the strongest effect was that on laughter. It also seemed to increase enjoyability of music, video games, TV shows, socializing, and of course productive work.
Posted 23 January 2018 - 09:09 AM
What brand are you using Neuro?
I've found Doctor's best Ultra Cordyceps to be the most effective of the ones I've tried. It's standardized to "supplying 8% cordycepic acid (60 mg) 0.3% adenosine (2 mg)".
I also bought 60 grams powdered extract standardized to 30% polysaccharides from a finnish company, it has smoother effect. I'd like to try Dragon Herbs Cordyceps since their products are considered very high quality.
Posted 23 January 2018 - 10:12 AM
What brand are you using Neuro?
I've found Doctor's best Ultra Cordyceps to be the most effective of the ones I've tried. It's standardized to "supplying 8% cordycepic acid (60 mg) 0.3% adenosine (2 mg)".
I also bought 60 grams powdered extract standardized to 30% polysaccharides from a finnish company, it has smoother effect. I'd like to try Dragon Herbs Cordyceps since their products are considered very high quality.
That's pretty weak and quite expensive too, given the price. I've used Oriveda's Cordyceps for quite some time now and it is IMO the best one out there. Over 17% cordycepic acid, over 1% cordycepin (this is THE most important compound in Cordyceps), over .35% adenosine, over 24% beta-glucan... my libido is better than ever and as an ex-smoker, I've to say my breathing improved tremendously as well, something Cordyceps is also known for.
Posted 23 January 2018 - 07:19 PM
As far as the price, I could only compare price per gram of the 2 standardized measure Best discloses. Oriveda is far more expensive. This might vary some if not buying with U.S. dollars as the exchange rate has weakened. The fact that Orevida discloses the other active ingredients could be very important. I trust the excellent quality of Oriveda's Cordyceps if price is of no concern.
Best around $11 per 60 dose bottle. Cordycepic Acid $3.05 per gram. Adenosine $9.16 per gram
Oriveda around $75 per 120 capsule bottle. Cordycepic Acid $8.54 per gram.Adenosine $41.52per gram
My experience over more than 20 years is that Dragon Herbs is always very high quality, but I can never quite feel confident that the level of things in tinctures can be easily compared to the extracts sold dry. Some of their tinctures got way to expensive for me. The Cultured Cordyceps drops does not list percentages of the ingredients. I did take a chance when some of their products went on sale in November. I tried their Cultured Cordyceps. It is an excellent product as far as taste, and the effect appears to be strong. Enough feeling of benefit, that I bought more. Due to some indication that my immunity was way down, I also added D.E.'s Chaga and Turkey Tail, Real Mush's Reishi, to some LEF's Cistanche, Reishi product. Given this, I can not say what exactly is giving benefit.
Keep an eye out for Real Mush as they sometimes have very good sales. It will be my next purchase. They do not disclose Cordycepic Acid or Adenosine.
Posted 23 January 2018 - 08:27 PM
As far as the price, I could only compare price per gram of the 2 standardized measure Best discloses. Oriveda is far more expensive. This might vary some if not buying with U.S. dollars as the exchange rate has weakened. The fact that Orevida discloses the other active ingredients could be very important. I trust the excellent quality of Oriveda's Cordyceps if price is of no concern.
Best around $11 per 60 dose bottle. Cordycepic Acid $3.05 per gram. Adenosine $9.16 per gram
Oriveda around $75 per 120 capsule bottle. Cordycepic Acid $8.54 per gram.Adenosine $41.52per gram
My experience over more than 20 years is that Dragon Herbs is always very high quality, but I can never quite feel confident that the level of things in tinctures can be easily compared to the extracts sold dry. Some of their tinctures got way to expensive for me. The Cultured Cordyceps drops does not list percentages of the ingredients. I did take a chance when some of their products went on sale in November. I tried their Cultured Cordyceps. It is an excellent product as far as taste, and the effect appears to be strong. Enough feeling of benefit, that I bought more. Due to some indication that my immunity was way down, I also added D.E.'s Chaga and Turkey Tail, Real Mush's Reishi, to some LEF's Cistanche, Reishi product. Given this, I can not say what exactly is giving benefit.
Keep an eye out for Real Mush as they sometimes have very good sales. It will be my next purchase. They do not disclose Cordycepic Acid or Adenosine.
I think you need to work a bit on your arithmetic...! Best has ± 2 mg adenosine p/capsule. Oriveda has 1.5mg p/capsule. You need 500 capsules (Best) or 667 (Oriveda) to get a gram of adenosine...!
That aside, cordycepic acid is also known as mannitol, it is not an actual active ingredient, it is just a type of sugar that is not bioactive unless injected (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mannitol).
You are probably mixing up cordycepin (https://en.wikipedia...wiki/Cordycepin) with cordycepic acid. Search for cordycepin on Pubmed and you'll see all the research Cordyceps is known for.
Cordycepin is considered the main quality marker for all Cordyceps, but the levels are low unless expensive purification procedures are used. That is why almost nobody is revealing the cordycepin levels in their cordyceps product - the product would be the laughing stock. Levels like 0.1 % or even lower are what you'd see. Instead sellers talk about polysaccharides (which include many non-bioactive compounds such as starch and chitin so cannot be considered a quality marker at all) and cordycepic acid (see above).
Real Mush used to specify cordycepin on their cordyceps labels but stopped doing that for some reason. It was also pretty low if I remember correctly. Now they only specify beta-glucan, but why 'd you spend money on beta-glucan optimised Cordyceps if for that same money you can get much more potent beta-glucan-rich supplements such as Turkey tail which easily have over 3 times the beta-glucan amount ? You don't have to do it for the other cordyceps-specific compounds (cordycepin, uridine, adenosine) because the levels are so low sellers don't even put it on the label. I don't see the logic !
Tinctures are in the core about 95% liquid (a useless carrier) and only 5% mushroom product.
In the case of mushrooms the value for money is low. The extract powder in capsules is actually the deposit that's left after the liquid has evaporated, because all extracts are the result of solvent extraction (water, alcohol) . Except in the case of tinctures the product is not dried (to get a higher profit margin and to avoid having to invest in expensive spray drying / freeze drying installations). Tinctures are very popular with DIY businesses. because everybody can do it. And indeed, as you say tinctures never reveal potency levels. IMO too much room for cheating there
Posted 23 January 2018 - 08:50 PM
VLAD, sorry if I was off on my decimal point. Your math is not showing cost per gram. Why did you ignore that ? Using your math, The cost for Orevida is $416 for 667 capsules. Best is $91.66 to get 500 capsules.
That aside, as I acknowledged, Oriveda is excellent, and they disclose far more information. You have rightfully made the point often about the quality of Oriveda products. I agree. Otherwise, It does sometimes come down to cost for me, and trust of the company involved. I do trust Real Mushrooms in spite of not disclosing constituents, but your points are valid. I also agree as far as tinctures, as I mentioned my concern about them.
Edited by Heisok, 23 January 2018 - 09:25 PM.
Posted 23 January 2018 - 10:04 PM
Hmm I found a retailer that sells 500 grams of powdered Cordyceps for €79.90. So it's not an extract. Is it effective if I take a lot of it? Or is extracting the only way to get the true benefits of the mushroom?
Mushrooms are indigestible for most people, that's why all research and all traditional use is using some form of extraction. Otherwise the bioavailability will be questionable at best.
Extracts usually also have a much higher amount of bioactive compounds due to the fractionating processes used in extraction. What might seem cheap (500 grams of powder : $ 80 in your example) is probably more 'expensive' than you think, because most extracts are at least 10 :1 and the better ones are up to 30:1.
Meaning, 50 grams of extract in general might equal 500 grams of powder and guarantee bioavailability on top of that.
Posted 01 February 2018 - 05:42 AM
BulkSupplements sells pure CS-4 cordyceps mycelium for like $40/kg, at 0.3% adenosine. For a 3rd party tested product, that price can't be beat unless you are importing multiple kilograms from China. Yes, there is no cordycepin in CS-4, but cordycepin is essentially just an adenosine analog. There is a reason that CS-4 has been researched so extensively. It is a cheap, effective, and easily grown strain that has active constituents similar to wild cordyceps.
Considering that CS-4 tastes like cacao, there is really no reason to take capsules save for laziness or lack of time. If someone is completely convinced that cordycepin has effects that adenosine doesn't, C.militaris whole fruiting bodies can be bought on ebay or amazon for relatively cheap. For example: https://www.ebay.com...is/121786673588 and while there is no standardization guaranteeing "0.3% Cordycepin" this is whole dried cordyceps, which leaves very little room for contamination, and likely has pretty similar potency to the Nammex product.
Posted 07 February 2018 - 05:50 AM
so, is there no wild cordyceps available anymore, they overharvested it? i know its very expensive but i cant even find any being sold anymore for some reason.
from all the supplements i checked, most seem crap. dr's best is good supplement company that i like, but its not that good on cordyceps just like most others out there. especially since they sell 60 caps for just 10 dollars wow something is wrong indeed. i would really prefer to find a good wild cordyceps if possible.
meanwhile, does new chapter cordyceps have any good quality, because ive tried that one a while ago and i thought i felt more than placebo, but im unsure unless someone else has a report on that
Edited by hazy, 07 February 2018 - 05:51 AM.
Posted 07 February 2018 - 06:43 AM
What brand are you using Neuro?
I've found Doctor's best Ultra Cordyceps to be the most effective of the ones I've tried. It's standardized to "supplying 8% cordycepic acid (60 mg) 0.3% adenosine (2 mg)".
I also bought 60 grams powdered extract standardized to 30% polysaccharides from a finnish company, it has smoother effect. I'd like to try Dragon Herbs Cordyceps since their products are considered very high quality.
That's pretty weak and quite expensive too, given the price. I've used Oriveda's Cordyceps for quite some time now and it is IMO the best one out there. Over 17% cordycepic acid, over 1% cordycepin (this is THE most important compound in Cordyceps), over .35% adenosine, over 24% beta-glucan... my libido is better than ever and as an ex-smoker, I've to say my breathing improved tremendously as well, something Cordyceps is also known for.
i was checking what you mentioned and oriveda's cordyceps is sold only in 120 caps for 80 dollars. now, thats a lot of caps and i wouldnt question the price as much but how come they dont have an option for smaller amounts is what irritates me. of course first time im not going to spend 80 dollars on so many caps. reasonably so, i havent ordered from them before and thats way too many caps to begin with. there are dozen of reasons not to order huge amount first time around including how it might personally affect you in various ways, including possibility for side effects and allergy and just not liking the actual effects in general. why spend 80 dollars first time around for an amount that you might just throw away ??
Edited by hazy, 07 February 2018 - 06:45 AM.
Posted 07 February 2018 - 01:12 PM
BulkSupplements sells pure CS-4 cordyceps mycelium for like $40/kg, at 0.3% adenosine. For a 3rd party tested product, that price can't be beat unless you are importing multiple kilograms from China. Yes, there is no cordycepin in CS-4, but cordycepin is essentially just an adenosine analog. There is a reason that CS-4 has been researched so extensively. It is a cheap, effective, and easily grown strain that has active constituents similar to wild cordyceps.
Considering that CS-4 tastes like cacao, there is really no reason to take capsules save for laziness or lack of time. If someone is completely convinced that cordycepin has effects that adenosine doesn't, C.militaris whole fruiting bodies can be bought on ebay or amazon for relatively cheap. For example: https://www.ebay.com...is/121786673588 and while there is no standardization guaranteeing "0.3% Cordycepin" this is whole dried cordyceps, which leaves very little room for contamination, and likely has pretty similar potency to the Nammex product.
Cordycepin is a derivative of adenosine (adenosine tri-phosphate - ATP) and is considered the main bioactive marker compound in Cordyceps. It is responsible for the energizing effects Cordyceps is known for.
Adenosine is not the energizing compound, actually the opposite. That's why caffeine is 'energizing' - because it blocks the adenosine receptors, it is an adenosine antagonist. It wipes out the drowsy effects adenosine has.
I quote :
"When you are awake, adenosine accumulates in the brain and eventually causes drowsiness by attaching to cells in the basal forebrain and inhibiting their activity. Adenosine stimulates signals that tell your body it is time to rest, and activates the responses necessary to engage in full and sustained sleep." (link)
(also see https://www.ncbi.nlm...bmed/20164566).
As said, it is Cordycepin which is energizing.
Bulksupplements could not show me a third party lab test when I asked. I got a 'technical data sheet ' instead, which means little.
If you use common sense you should realise that for such a low price you cannot cultivate/transport/process/test/export/ pay import taxes / offer free shipping and make a profit on whatever mushroom extract. It's simply impossible unless several corners are being cut. Common sense.
I also think everybody considering buying 'wild' Cordyceps sinensis or cultivated Cordyceps militaris fruiting bodies to get more pronounced effects for less money is fooling themselves big time. The placebo effect will be stronger though, because 'Wow, I am taking the real thing' !!
Research actually showed cultivated Cordyceps CS-4 to be superior in all aspects to the wild variation.
- First of all, you need to 'extract' the 'wild' stuff. Make a tea or soup out of it is the traditional way. Inefficient but it at least does something but not much. Researchers making a Reishi 'tea / soup' the traditional way compared it against a standard extract. The soup contained less than 1% polysaccharides/glucans, whereas Reishi can easily yield up to 40% beta-glucan when properly extracted. It is very high in glucans. Conclusion: the traditional method is actually much more expensive because of its inefficiency. (could not find the link to this article anymore, sorry...)
- Second, you have no idea if there actually is something useful in your natural Cordyceps, just like not every orange contains the same amount (or any) vitamin C. It depends on environmental conditions, storage conditions, etc... Most research is based on CS-4, not on wild Cordyceps, and there's a reason for that.
Cordycepin is mainly found in Cordyceps militaris fruiting bodies but the quantity is low unless it is optimised by an extraction procedure. This is expensive but at least you get what you pay for: ATP. Natural Cordyceps will not be even close quality-wise to Nammex' supplement and most others
- Third, you have no clue how much contamination is present in your natural Cordyceps. A recent report showed wild Cordyceps sinensis, straight from the Tibetan highlands, to be severely contaminated with arsenic.
Posted 07 February 2018 - 01:16 PM
i was checking what you mentioned and oriveda's cordyceps is sold only in 120 caps for 80 dollars. now, thats a lot of caps and i wouldnt question the price as much but how come they dont have an option for smaller amounts is what irritates me. of course first time im not going to spend 80 dollars on so many caps. reasonably so, i havent ordered from them before and thats way too many caps to begin with. there are dozen of reasons not to order huge amount first time around including how it might personally affect you in various ways, including possibility for side effects and allergy and just not liking the actual effects in general. why spend 80 dollars first time around for an amount that you might just throw away ??
I think offering smaller packages would make the product more expensive ?
Usually if 120 caps are 80 dollars 60 capsules are not 40 dollars but 50 or so...
Posted 07 February 2018 - 09:30 PM
A few things:
1) Cordyceps is not a stimulant, and cordycepin isn't stimulatory.
Sedative and hypnotic effects of the fermentative broth of Cordyceps Sinensis
Cordycepin Increases Nonrapid Eye Movement Sleep via Adenosine Receptors in Rats "Because of similarity of chemical structure of adenosine, cordycepin has been focused on the diverse effects of the central nervous systems (CNSs), like sleep regulation. Therefore, this study was undertaken to know whether cordycepin increases the natural sleep in rats, and its effect is mediated by adenosine receptors (ARs)."
2) You obviously have some interest vested in Oriveda, which is fine because they seem to make good, if overpriced products, but you shouldn't act like a truly unbiased interlocutor if you aren't one.
3) I have tried numerous CS-4 powders, including Nammex, BulkSupplements, and a direct order from one of the largest producers in China whose product has been used in clinical research. There is no mistaking the taste of authentic CS-4 powder, and from my experience the Nammex product was the least potent of any of them. I have no doubt in my mind that the BulkSupplements product is pure and authentic.
The price I paid with each company was consistently ~$50/kg, including shipping. So your claim "If you use common sense you should realise that for such a low price you cannot cultivate/transport/process/test/export/ pay import taxes / offer free shipping and make a profit on whatever mushroom extract. It's simply impossible unless several corners are being cut. Common sense" holds absolutely no value, you are just trying to justify overpaying for products.
CS-4 and C.Militaris are produced in quantities of hundreds of thousands of tons per year. The going rate from Chinese producers is around $20/kg, so throw in a little for freight and import taxes, and even BulkSupplements is making a large profit on their product. Now imagine how much Nammex resellers/ Oriveda is making from a product they are paying only $50/kg or less for.
Edited by Adaptogen, 07 February 2018 - 09:31 PM.
Posted 08 February 2018 - 02:38 AM
i was checking what you mentioned and oriveda's cordyceps is sold only in 120 caps for 80 dollars. now, thats a lot of caps and i wouldnt question the price as much but how come they dont have an option for smaller amounts is what irritates me. of course first time im not going to spend 80 dollars on so many caps. reasonably so, i havent ordered from them before and thats way too many caps to begin with. there are dozen of reasons not to order huge amount first time around including how it might personally affect you in various ways, including possibility for side effects and allergy and just not liking the actual effects in general. why spend 80 dollars first time around for an amount that you might just throw away ??
I think offering smaller packages would make the product more expensive ?
Usually if 120 caps are 80 dollars 60 capsules are not 40 dollars but 50 or so...
im not going to buy 120 caps for 80 dollars though. thats crazy testing a new product buying a lot for a high price. if they dont give samples, then i think they are too worried someone might not like their expensive products. anyone with confidence in their business will either supply samples or offer less amount for less price choice
Edited by hazy, 08 February 2018 - 02:39 AM.
Posted 08 February 2018 - 02:40 AM
A few things:
1) Cordyceps is not a stimulant, and cordycepin isn't stimulatory.
Sedative and hypnotic effects of the fermentative broth of Cordyceps SinensisCordycepin Increases Nonrapid Eye Movement Sleep via Adenosine Receptors in Rats "Because of similarity of chemical structure of adenosine, cordycepin has been focused on the diverse effects of the central nervous systems (CNSs), like sleep regulation. Therefore, this study was undertaken to know whether cordycepin increases the natural sleep in rats, and its effect is mediated by adenosine receptors (ARs)."
2) You obviously have some interest vested in Oriveda, which is fine because they seem to make good, if overpriced products, but you shouldn't act like a truly unbiased interlocutor if you aren't one.
3) I have tried numerous CS-4 powders, including Nammex, BulkSupplements, and a direct order from one of the largest producers in China whose product has been used in clinical research. There is no mistaking the taste of authentic CS-4 powder, and from my experience the Nammex product was the least potent of any of them. I have no doubt in my mind that the BulkSupplements product is pure and authentic.
The price I paid with each company was consistently ~$50/kg, including shipping. So your claim "If you use common sense you should realise that for such a low price you cannot cultivate/transport/process/test/export/ pay import taxes / offer free shipping and make a profit on whatever mushroom extract. It's simply impossible unless several corners are being cut. Common sense" holds absolutely no value, you are just trying to justify overpaying for products.
CS-4 and C.Militaris are produced in quantities of hundreds of thousands of tons per year. The going rate from Chinese producers is around $20/kg, so throw in a little for freight and import taxes, and even BulkSupplements is making a large profit on their product. Now imagine how much Nammex resellers/ Oriveda is making from a product they are paying only $50/kg or less for.
is it possible nammex product was crap? i have read nothing but good about them honestly. i would never order from china anything ever! you were pushing it there and i guess sometimes risk wins
Posted 11 February 2018 - 10:44 PM
A few things:
1) Cordyceps is not a stimulant, and cordycepin isn't stimulatory.
Sedative and hypnotic effects of the fermentative broth of Cordyceps SinensisCordycepin Increases Nonrapid Eye Movement Sleep via Adenosine Receptors in Rats "Because of similarity of chemical structure of adenosine, cordycepin has been focused on the diverse effects of the central nervous systems (CNSs), like sleep regulation. Therefore, this study was undertaken to know whether cordycepin increases the natural sleep in rats, and its effect is mediated by adenosine receptors (ARs)."
2) You obviously have some interest vested in Oriveda, which is fine because they seem to make good, if overpriced products, but you shouldn't act like a truly unbiased interlocutor if you aren't one.
3) I have tried numerous CS-4 powders, including Nammex, BulkSupplements, and a direct order from one of the largest producers in China whose product has been used in clinical research. There is no mistaking the taste of authentic CS-4 powder, and from my experience the Nammex product was the least potent of any of them. I have no doubt in my mind that the BulkSupplements product is pure and authentic.
The price I paid with each company was consistently ~$50/kg, including shipping. So your claim "If you use common sense you should realise that for such a low price you cannot cultivate/transport/process/test/export/ pay import taxes / offer free shipping and make a profit on whatever mushroom extract. It's simply impossible unless several corners are being cut. Common sense" holds absolutely no value, you are just trying to justify overpaying for products.
CS-4 and C.Militaris are produced in quantities of hundreds of thousands of tons per year. The going rate from Chinese producers is around $20/kg, so throw in a little for freight and import taxes, and even BulkSupplements is making a large profit on their product. Now imagine how much Nammex resellers/ Oriveda is making from a product they are paying only $50/kg or less for.
Cordycepin is increasing the production of ATP, and ATP is the main source of vitality / energy.
I quote:
"It has been seen previously reported that Cordyceps also enhances physical stamina making it very useful for the elderly people and athletes. Recent literature further confirms that Cordyceps enhances cellular energy in the form of ATP (adenosine tri-phosphate)." (link).
Cordycepin is a quality marker of Cordyceps militaris, not Cordyceps sinensis (CS-4). Nammex is not selling CS-4. You are mixing up the two.
And for the rest, you can choose to believe what you want to believe, but you can not choose your own facts. I like a bargain as much as everybody. I actually looked up shipping rates from China, fyi the cheapest rate is China Post and it's $ 25 per kg to the US. Since there is no such thing as 'free shipping' shipping is just included in the price, $20 or $ 50 p/kg is an impossible price for a cultivated mushroom extract. My conclusion is that the cheap and high quality combination is not possible in mushroom extracts. Common sense, plausibility....
Posted 11 February 2018 - 11:43 PM
i sent oriveda email asking for less amount for smaller price if possible and they never replied back. not very good at customer service it seems.
so who else sells the CS-4? i was thinking of trying nammex but since they dont have that specific one, screw it. but i really do need some good quality cordyceps for energy and especially for better lung function as i have mild bronchitis
Posted 12 February 2018 - 12:11 AM
One might contact them for re-sellers, as I do not think they sell directly. Real Mushrooms does not sell CS-4. I have seen other retailers mention Nammex. It is possible Nammex no longer wholesales it. Nammex (Real Mushroom uses) has > .3 % Cordycepin in the Militaris.Oriveda has > 1.0%
Cordyceps Cs-4 Paecilomyces hepiali
Nammex Cordyceps Cs-4 is a pure mycelium product that is produced in liquid culture. The mycelium is separated from the liquid and dried to a powder.
A few things:
1) Cordyceps is not a stimulant, and cordycepin isn't stimulatory.
Sedative and hypnotic effects of the fermentative broth of Cordyceps SinensisCordycepin Increases Nonrapid Eye Movement Sleep via Adenosine Receptors in Rats "Because of similarity of chemical structure of adenosine, cordycepin has been focused on the diverse effects of the central nervous systems (CNSs), like sleep regulation. Therefore, this study was undertaken to know whether cordycepin increases the natural sleep in rats, and its effect is mediated by adenosine receptors (ARs)."
2) You obviously have some interest vested in Oriveda, which is fine because they seem to make good, if overpriced products, but you shouldn't act like a truly unbiased interlocutor if you aren't one.
3) I have tried numerous CS-4 powders, including Nammex, BulkSupplements, and a direct order from one of the largest producers in China whose product has been used in clinical research. There is no mistaking the taste of authentic CS-4 powder, and from my experience the Nammex product was the least potent of any of them. I have no doubt in my mind that the BulkSupplements product is pure and authentic.
The price I paid with each company was consistently ~$50/kg, including shipping. So your claim "If you use common sense you should realise that for such a low price you cannot cultivate/transport/process/test/export/ pay import taxes / offer free shipping and make a profit on whatever mushroom extract. It's simply impossible unless several corners are being cut. Common sense" holds absolutely no value, you are just trying to justify overpaying for products.
CS-4 and C.Militaris are produced in quantities of hundreds of thousands of tons per year. The going rate from Chinese producers is around $20/kg, so throw in a little for freight and import taxes, and even BulkSupplements is making a large profit on their product. Now imagine how much Nammex resellers/ Oriveda is making from a product they are paying only $50/kg or less for.
Cordycepin is increasing the production of ATP, and ATP is the main source of vitality / energy.
I quote:
"It has been seen previously reported that Cordyceps also enhances physical stamina making it very useful for the elderly people and athletes. Recent literature further confirms that Cordyceps enhances cellular energy in the form of ATP (adenosine tri-phosphate)." (link).
Cordycepin is a quality marker of Cordyceps militaris, not Cordyceps sinensis (CS-4). Nammex is not selling CS-4. You are mixing up the two.
And for the rest, you can choose to believe what you want to believe, but you can not choose your own facts. I like a bargain as much as everybody. I actually looked up shipping rates from China, fyi the cheapest rate is China Post and it's $ 25 per kg to the US. Since there is no such thing as 'free shipping' shipping is just included in the price, $20 or $ 50 p/kg is an impossible price for a cultivated mushroom extract. My conclusion is that the cheap and high quality combination is not possible in mushroom extracts. Common sense, plausibility....
Edited by Heisok, 12 February 2018 - 12:30 AM.
Posted 12 February 2018 - 03:51 AM
Posted 12 February 2018 - 10:29 PM
Cordycepin is increasing the production of ATP, and ATP is the main source of vitality / energy.
I quote:
"It has been seen previously reported that Cordyceps also enhances physical stamina making it very useful for the elderly people and athletes. Recent literature further confirms that Cordyceps enhances cellular energy in the form of ATP (adenosine tri-phosphate)." (link).
Cordycepin is a quality marker of Cordyceps militaris, not Cordyceps sinensis (CS-4). Nammex is not selling CS-4. You are mixing up the two.
And for the rest, you can choose to believe what you want to believe, but you can not choose your own facts. I like a bargain as much as everybody. I actually looked up shipping rates from China, fyi the cheapest rate is China Post and it's $ 25 per kg to the US. Since there is no such thing as 'free shipping' shipping is just included in the price, $20 or $ 50 p/kg is an impossible price for a cultivated mushroom extract. My conclusion is that the cheap and high quality combination is not possible in mushroom extracts. Common sense, plausibility....
Nammex sells Militaris and CS-4. I have tried both. The CS-4 is available here: http://www.nammex.co...cordyceps-cs-4/ although I don't recommend their CS-4 over BulkSupplements, and it is not worth the hassle of ordering from them.
And once again, you are trying to act like anything reasonably priced cannot be an authentic product, which is simply a tactic to scare people into overpaying for Oriveda. If Nammex can sell C.Militaris 1:1 extract for $50/kg (which is the price I payed) and they are a middleman, then BulkSupplements can quite easily sell the less costly CS-4 powder for $40/kg.
Posted 13 February 2018 - 02:37 AM
That $50 kg is marked up by Real Mushrooms to $30 for 60 grams or $500 per kg. This gets one .3% cordycepin. Granted not all C. Militaris will have the same amount of cordycepin. Oriveda shows 1% for their combined product.
Apparently strain, growth medium and concentration of gasses can effect cordycepin levels. Looks like .201 g/L to as high as 8.57 g/L for various attempts. They are not testing commercial extracts, just methods.
Zhang Q, Liu Y, Di Z, Han C, Liu Z (2016) The Strategies for Increasing Cordycepin Production of Cordyceps Militaris by Liquid
Fermentation. Fungal Genom Biol 6: 134. doi:10.4172/2165-8056.1000134
"abstract
The aims of this review are to describe the biosynthetic pathway of cordycepin and summarize the strategies for
increasing cordycepin production of Cordyceps militaris by liquid fermentationn. In recent years, researchers made
remarkable progress in cordycepin production. They focused their attention on the three aspects to improve
cordycepin production: strain improving, optimizing ingredients of medium and optimizing culture conditions. This
review might be helpful for understanding of cordycepin boisynthesis and increasing the production of cordycepin."
In conclusion, both the strain improving and additives had effect on cordycepin production predominately. Fe2+ and NH4+ were found as
efficient inducers for cordycepin biosynthesis. Adding purine-related compounds (precursors), feeding of Fe2+ , NH4+
and the repeated batch culture were simple and effective strategies for increasing cordycepin production of C. militaris by liquid fermentation.
https://www.google.c...9Nz0cbhVzUPqD2w
Edited by Heisok, 13 February 2018 - 02:56 AM.
Posted 06 March 2018 - 06:40 AM
Hmm, what about that Aloha Medicinals mushroom? It costs more than eBay offers, but if it's 100% the real deal, it's not so much for 3 month supply - around 7eu per month.
A lot of people seem to be concerned with the quality and the diversity of reports seems to confirm that some cordyceps are pretty much useless... I can afford maybe 5, max 10eu/month for supplementing a single supplement (I want to take multiple, as my dopamine is really, really low, along with others that are not as low but still way below what they should be), and I am in serious need of MAOIs, so a single supplement isn't gonna cut it.
I usually look on eBay to buy supplements, and there is a lot of listings for these with a good amount of polysaccharides and beta-glucans, but evidently if they are cultivated wrongly, they are useless.
Anyone can recommend a brand or a place for Europeans to get decent cordyceps for decent price, if that even exists? I really don't want to buy a crap supplement with little to no effect, and throw it - you can't prove that supplement is not effective and so I wouldn't be able to get a refund.
Any advice? :/
Edited by nooguyz, 06 March 2018 - 06:41 AM.
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