241 replies to this topic

[mikela]

Count me in as well...12 bottles.

[Asor]

Got an interesting answer in my email today from one of the lead researchers of the study i mentioned about Nicotinamide Riboside.

As i said i  have mitochondrial myopathy and this study showed some effectiveness of nicotinamide riboside for this disease on mice.

 

"Thank you for your interest in our research. I do understand why you are interested. However, your doctors are wise to say that the compounds need to be tested first in humans - because humans are not mice. We are initiating a patient trial after the summer. It is very important, because sometimes unexpected side effects occur in mitochondrial disease patients with these seemingly little-harming but actually metabolically very active compounds. New compounds need to be tested in tight follow-up of a physician, with lab test follow up as well."

[midas]

Asor, I don't know if you are following this thread but if not you will find it interesting....... http://www.longecity...-strikes-again/

[Asor]

midas: very interesting indeed.

My only concern is that this kind of studies/researches are based on healthy/normal mitochondria, not the malfunctioning one i have.

 

Re-quoting this part from the email i got from that researcher ( Anu Wartiovaara: research.med.helsinki.fi/neuro/wartiovaara/ ) :

 

"We are initiating a patient trial after the summer. It is very important, because sometimes unexpected side effects occur in mitochondrial disease patients with these seemingly little-harming but actually metabolically very active compounds."

 

This part really made me think whether it's safe for me to "experiment" with products that are created for "healthy" people.

 

But what do i know?

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[midas]

midas: very interesting indeed.

My only concern is that this kind of studies/researches are based on healthy/normal mitochondria, not the malfunctioning one i have.

 

Re-quoting this part from the email i got from that researcher ( Anu Wartiovaara: research.med.helsinki.fi/neuro/wartiovaara/ ) :

 

"We are initiating a patient trial after the summer. It is very important, because sometimes unexpected side effects occur in mitochondrial disease patients with these seemingly little-harming but actually metabolically very active compounds."

 

This part really made me think whether it's safe for me to "experiment" with products that are created for "healthy" people.

 

But what do i know?

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Asor, I think you are right to be cautious, it sounds like myself you have a medical condition that has lead you to research NR and obviously you don't want to take any chances of making that condition worse.

It is the general consensus that NR is safe in humans but we do not know how much we can take. What I have done is to just take 250mg (Niagen) sub-lingually (under the tongue) daily, by my reckoning that sub-lingual dose should be equivalent to three times the oral dose and that should give me around 750mg a day.

I am also not expecting NR to make a huge difference in a way that I can notice for maybe a few months. As I think it will take time to do the job I am hoping it will. Ideally I would like to take two or three grams per day but I am in no rush to harm myself and am willing to stick with the smaller dose for a while to see how it goes.

My logic is, a smaller dose is better than no dose, and if it turns out to have undesired affects hopefully I will notice before any irreversible damage is done.......

If things still feel OK in a couple of months or we find more evidence that it is safe to take more, I will increase the dose, providing we find a supplier at a reasonable cost.

 

I think a lot of people expect this to be some super compound that totally alters things in a very short period of time, personally I dont, and I think it needs time to do its job, if at all.

All that said I am pretty convinced NR is a good thing, but only time and experimentation will tell.
 

Edited by midas, 25 April 2014 - 02:49 PM.

[Asor]

I agree midas,  and maybe the effects arent evident but i always wonder whether some supplement or drug could at least slow down the progression of the disease, and that's very hard to tell.

 

 

 

Edited by Asor, 25 April 2014 - 02:59 PM.

[APBT]

Since the NR bulk powder group buy hasn't sprouted wings yet, there are a couple of other avenues to investigate to bring down the cost of Niagen. 

Negotiate a steeper discount with HPN if we can guarantee a larger group purchase.  It has been noted that Niagen was around $20 a bottle retail 6 - 8 months ago; why the ~140% price hike?  It kinda reeks of price gauging.

Second, if someone has a re-sale (wholesale) license, they would likely receive a much better price from HPN.  They could then sell to the group at cost or at a reasonable markup, to compensate for their efforts.

[midas]

That would still be to expensive for me as I want to take up to 3 grams a day eventually, that would work out at $70 a week at $20 a bottle.

 

I need to get 0.5 to1kg at a decent price to make it work.Something will come up eventually if we keep looking.

[Mr.No]

Maybe you dont need to by NR. It seems that nicotinic acid is more effective (and probably more safe) in increasing NAD levels in neurons. Read this article and make your own conclusions... 

 

http://www.ncbi.nlm....nihms-96557.pdf

 

Some quotes:

 

"In all vertebrates, NAD can be synthesized by two pathways: de novo synthesis from tryptophan [3,4] and/or from vitamin precursors in the diet: NA, nicotinamide (NAM), and nicotinamide riboside (NAMR)."

 

"not every cell is capable of converting each precursor to NAD at all times although NAD is essential to survival."  

http://www.ncbi.nlm....51433/table/T1/

 

"Neuronal explant experiments performed by Sasaki et al. reveal neurons are inefficient at de novo and salvage NAD biosynthesis."

 

"In contrast to neurons, glial cells possess efficient de novo and salvage pathways. Glial cells use NA with more than a 250-fold greater efficiency than NAM or quinolinate"

 

"Current data strongly support the notion that glia serve important roles in both the synthesis of NAD from tryptophan, NA, or NAM, and the delivery of NAD to neurons (Fig. 3)."

 

"Given the divisions of labor reserved for glia, it makes sense that glia are likely more efficient at NAD biosynthesis than neurons and consequently serve critical functions as providers of NAD to neurons. Collectively experimental data supports the notion that glial may be required for the essential delivery of NAD to neurons starting from tryptophan, nicotinic acid/niacin, or nicotinamide/niacinamide, but not nicotinamide riboside [1]."

 

etc

 

There are many other health benefits with supplying body with niacinamide/nicotinic acid...

By the way, brain is composed of 90% of glial cells http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Neuroglia

 

[smithx]

Can someone please recap:

 

- What is the current price per bottle?

- How does one place an order?

 

I guess it's worth spending the money to find out if there are any noticeable differences

[midas]

Can someone please recap:

 

- What is the current price per bottle?

- How does one place an order?

 

I guess it's worth spending the money to find out if there are any noticeable differences

 

Price per bottle on the group buy was $33 ($47 retail) but that has finished for now, but hopefully we will have another opportunity to do it again soon.

[DrW]

Ok, I got a reply to my email. I will quote the relevant part:

As far as payment, we will make a discount code for our web-store that will be active for a 3 day period once we have everyone's orders accounted for. This is the easiest way to make sure everyone's shipping info is accurate and etc.

For shipping all orders will be shipped via USPS Priority. We will ship Domestic USA orders free, but international shipments will have a $16 charge. The actual cost will be closer to $25-30 but we will cover the rest.

Our material is Nicotinamide Riboside Chloride and it is great than 99% purity. This is the material that is being used in all the latest research. I know this because the material transfer agreements all use our material.

Hope this answers everyones questions

 

I found this : Not a bioavailable form of Nicotinamide Riboside. This is mislabelled and actually is "Nicotinamide Riboside Chloride" which is sourced from Chromadex.

 

You guys may be wasting your money on Nigen.

the real stuff is $140 per gram and not the NR Chloride form you are buying.

[maxwatt]

 

Ok, I got a reply to my email. I will quote the relevant part:

As far as payment, we will make a discount code for our web-store that will be active for a 3 day period once we have everyone's orders accounted for. This is the easiest way to make sure everyone's shipping info is accurate and etc.

For shipping all orders will be shipped via USPS Priority. We will ship Domestic USA orders free, but international shipments will have a $16 charge. The actual cost will be closer to $25-30 but we will cover the rest.

Our material is Nicotinamide Riboside Chloride and it is great than 99% purity. This is the material that is being used in all the latest research. I know this because the material transfer agreements all use our material.

Hope this answers everyones questions

 

I found this : Not a bioavailable form of Nicotinamide Riboside. This is mislabelled and actually is "Nicotinamide Riboside Chloride" which is sourced from Chromadex.

 

You guys may be wasting your money on Nigen.

the real stuff is $140 per gram and not the NR Chloride form you are buying.

 

 

The Cl anion stabilizes the molecule, and disassociates in the digestive system.  You don't want the freebase, too short a shelf-live.

[midas]

 

 

Ok, I got a reply to my email. I will quote the relevant part:

As far as payment, we will make a discount code for our web-store that will be active for a 3 day period once we have everyone's orders accounted for. This is the easiest way to make sure everyone's shipping info is accurate and etc.

For shipping all orders will be shipped via USPS Priority. We will ship Domestic USA orders free, but international shipments will have a $16 charge. The actual cost will be closer to $25-30 but we will cover the rest.

Our material is Nicotinamide Riboside Chloride and it is great than 99% purity. This is the material that is being used in all the latest research. I know this because the material transfer agreements all use our material.

Hope this answers everyones questions

 

I found this : Not a bioavailable form of Nicotinamide Riboside. This is mislabelled and actually is "Nicotinamide Riboside Chloride" which is sourced from Chromadex.

 

You guys may be wasting your money on Nigen.

the real stuff is $140 per gram and not the NR Chloride form you are buying.

 

 

The Cl anion stabilizes the molecule, and disassociates in the digestive system.  You don't want the freebase, too short a shelf-live.

 

For those who might not understand what Cl and anion mean.....

 

Chlorine is a chemical element with symbol Cl
Anions are atoms or radicals which are a group of atoms

[nbourbaki]

Aren't we getting close to getting the group buy going again?  I've reduced my dose to a little over 2 grams per day, since I've been replenishing my supply at retail prices.

 

Can we get this going again?

Edited by nbourbaki, 16 May 2014 - 09:16 PM.

[smithx]

Aren't we getting close to getting the group buy going again?  I've reduced my dose to a little over 2 grams per day, since I've been replenishing my supply at retail prices.

 

Can we get this going again?

 

Please post your experiences with NR in this thread:

http://www.longecity...erience-thread/

[nbourbaki]

 

Aren't we getting close to getting the group buy going again?  I've reduced my dose to a little over 2 grams per day, since I've been replenishing my supply at retail prices.

 

Can we get this going again?

 

Please post your experiences with NR in this thread:

http://www.longecity...erience-thread/

 

 

I've stayed away from that thread based on the thread starter's original post.  Specifically:

 

I think a great candidate for analysis would be over 50 (the older the better), with a long history of physical fitness, currently in good general health and fitness, whose diet and supplementation are stable.

 

While I'm over 50, I don't have a long history of physical fitness, I do suffer from prostatitis (far less so on NR depending on dose), my fitness I'm trying to improve and I'm trying to get my weight back down to where I was 3 years ago. 

[APBT]

 

 

Aren't we getting close to getting the group buy going again?  I've reduced my dose to a little over 2 grams per day, since I've been replenishing my supply at retail prices.

 

Can we get this going again?

 

Please post your experiences with NR in this thread:

http://www.longecity...erience-thread/

 

 

I've stayed away from that thread based on the thread starter's original post.  Specifically:

 

I think a great candidate for analysis would be over 50 (the older the better), with a long history of physical fitness, currently in good general health and fitness, whose diet and supplementation are stable.

 

While I'm over 50, I don't have a long history of physical fitness, I do suffer from prostatitis (far less so on NR depending on dose), my fitness I'm trying to improve and I'm trying to get my weight back down to where I was 3 years ago. 

 

 

I do believe there are people using NR who fit that bill, but, I don't believe any of them have posted their experience as of yet. Clearly, many of the contributors are under 50.

Please don't be put off by that statement you quoted.  I was merely suggesting that as an ideal-type candidate.  I encourage anyone using NR to post their experience in the thread. That's how we learn (anecdotally), generate questions and comments, and compile a database (of sorts).

[Fima Kachinski]

If HPN will be releasing another code for another discounted purchase of 6 or more bottles, I would like to participate. I'm still hopeful we can get our hands on some good quality bulk NR powder from China for a lot cheaper. But until then, I'd be interested in this. Please count me in for at least 6 bottles or perhaps 12.

[smithx]

By the way, the wholesale price of HPN's Niagen product is $24.95/bottle in quantity 48 or higher. So I would hope they'd give it to us at that price or closer to it.

 

 

[Fima Kachinski]

By the way, the wholesale price of HPN's Niagen product is $24.95/bottle in quantity 48 or higher. So I would hope they'd give it to us at that price or closer to it.

 

 

 

If they do that, it would most likely need to be shipped to one person. So this presents other challenges in regards to setting up a trusted distributor and how or if they should be compensated for all their work. Shipping may also impact the final total price adversely but I image it would still be cheaper than $33/bottle and certainly better than the retail price of $47.

[nbourbaki]

When and if we get a new discount code, I'll order more than last time.  Paying full retail sucks and I originally held off buying Niagen because I thought there would be a better alternative with the bulk group buy.  If the bulk buy happens, I'll most likely buy a kilo, but the thread started in late December and to date has over 500 posts and it's almost 5 months later, and I'm not sure if we are any closer.  

[niner]

I've stayed away from that thread based on the thread starter's original post.  Specifically:

 

I think a great candidate for analysis would be over 50 (the older the better), with a long history of physical fitness, currently in good general health and fitness, whose diet and supplementation are stable.

 

While I'm over 50, I don't have a long history of physical fitness, I do suffer from prostatitis (far less so on NR depending on dose), my fitness I'm trying to improve and I'm trying to get my weight back down to where I was 3 years ago. 

 

I don't see the point of a long history of physical fitness.  If anything, that would make it less likely that you would see a difference.  A person with various health problems might see improvements in some of them.  People who are healthy and relatively sedentary are the least likely to see anything from c60oo.  NR is a different compound with a different MoA, but anyone who uses it should post results if possible.

[DrW]

 

By the way, the wholesale price of HPN's Niagen product is $24.95/bottle in quantity 48 or higher. So I would hope they'd give it to us at that price or closer to it.

 

 

 

If they do that, it would most likely need to be shipped to one person. So this presents other challenges in regards to setting up a trusted distributor and how or if they should be compensated for all their work. Shipping may also impact the final total price adversely but I image it would still be cheaper than $33/bottle and certainly better than the retail price of $47.

 

 

I now believe that NR chloride is a valid form of NR that can increase NAD+.

 

I can handle the group buy and charge each buying party my actual USPS postage plus $2 for handling each shipment, accepting payment by check, or by free bank transfer to my bank from your Chase (Quick pay), Bank of America or Wells-Fargo (both use Surepay) bank or Credit card accounts. You enroll for this money transfer service online in your bank or credit card acct., I give you my email, then you send me the money to transfer to my bank. You must send me 10 percent of the total of your order before I order, then the rest just before I ship to you. Available for only USA orders and this money you send me is non-refundable.

 

Postage is from $2.31 to $4.12 for up to 13 ounces, and then $5.70 for over 13 ounces for up to about 12 bottles. Over 12 bottles is about $7.50 postage. Add $3 onto this group buy price of the bottles for handling your order (addressing, packaging, shipping work).

 

I can be trusted totally. I have an Ebay rating of %100 for over 4000 ratings (I sell pet wormers and flea controls on Ebay as pets have been a long time hobby of mine).

 

I will look into getting a price on 100 to 200 (or more) bottles on Monday. When I buy I will provide a copy of the invoice showing the price I paid.

Edited by DrW, 18 May 2014 - 10:38 AM.

[PWAIN]

Well that leaves anyone not in the US high and dry....

[midas]

Well that leaves anyone not in the US high and dry....

 

+1

[Fima Kachinski]

 

 

By the way, the wholesale price of HPN's Niagen product is $24.95/bottle in quantity 48 or higher. So I would hope they'd give it to us at that price or closer to it.

 

 

 

If they do that, it would most likely need to be shipped to one person. So this presents other challenges in regards to setting up a trusted distributor and how or if they should be compensated for all their work. Shipping may also impact the final total price adversely but I image it would still be cheaper than $33/bottle and certainly better than the retail price of $47.

 

 

I now believe that NR chloride is a valid form of NR that can increase NAD+.

 

I can handle the group buy and charge each buying party my actual USPS postage plus $2 for handling each shipment, accepting payment by check, or by free bank transfer to my bank from your Chase (Quick pay), Bank of America or Wells-Fargo (both use Surepay) bank or Credit card accounts. You enroll for this money transfer service online in your bank or credit card acct., I give you my email, then you send me the money to transfer to my bank. You must send me 10 percent of the total of your order before I order, then the rest just before I ship to you. Available for only USA orders and this money you send me is non-refundable.

 

Postage is from $2.31 to $4.12 for up to 13 ounces, and then $5.70 for over 13 ounces for up to about 12 bottles. Over 12 bottles is about $7.50 postage. Add $3 onto this group buy price of the bottles for handling your order (addressing, packaging, shipping work).

 

I can be trusted totally. I have an Ebay rating of %100 for over 4000 ratings (I sell pet wormers and flea controls on Ebay as pets have been a long time hobby of mine).

 

I will look into getting a price on 100 to 200 (or more) bottles on Monday. When I buy I will provide a copy of the invoice showing the price I paid.

 

 

Would you be willing to ship to Canada? We are practically the 51st state .

[DrW]

No non-USA shipments. It would have to go through customs and could be rejected. Also shipment is more expensive.

[DrW]

I am still leery about the chloride form of NR. Is NR chloride broken down into NR and chloride when ingested so that NR is preserved for separate bio-activity or does it lead to NADH or something else that is no longer NAD+.

 

Someone with chemistry and bio-activity knowledge could help here.

[midas]

No non-USA shipments. It would have to go through customs and could be rejected. Also shipment is more expensive.

 

Their is no problem with customs (It is only a supplement) I have motorcycle parts sent to me all the time USPS and the shipping is not as much as you would think. And anyone outside the USA would obviously pay more shipping.

 

The other thing is that it was PWAIN that sorted out the original group buy, and I think a big effort should be made for him to be included in your offer even If you don't want to send to others outside the USA. At the end of the day its just writing an address on a box, just the same as sending it to anyone else in the USA. All you have to do is put the name of the supplement on the shipping form.

 

It doesn't matter to me, If I got involved I can have it sent to a friend over there in the US and then have it shipped on to me. But I really think you should make an effort for PWAIN.

Edited by midas, 18 May 2014 - 10:20 PM.