241 replies to this topic

[DrW]

 

No non-USA shipments. It would have to go through customs and could be rejected. Also shipment is more expensive.

 

Their is no problem with customs (It is only a supplement) I have motorcycle parts sent to me all the time USPS and the shipping is not as much as you would think. And anyone outside the USA would obviously pay more shipping.

 

The other thing is that it was PWAIN that sorted out the original group buy, and I think a big effort should be made for him to be included in your offer even If you don't want to send to others outside the USA. At the end of the day its just writing an address on a box, just the same as sending it to anyone else in the USA. All you have to do is put the name of the supplement on the shipping form.

 

It doesn't matter to me, If I got involved I can have it sent to a friend over there in the US and then have it shipped on to me. But I really think you should make an effort for PWAIN.

 

 

Yes, someone should step up and offer to handle the group buy with international shipment included.

[Asor]

Any news on the group buy?

 

As i mentioned i have a mitochondrial disease and i just saw a new study about the efficiency of nicotinamide riboside.

 

It's just a study on rats, so it's a long shot, but as i mentioned a few weeks ago, another research is underway and they're going to start a trial on patients by the end of this summer, so it's not like it's some abstract theoretic study completely up in the air.

 

This is the new study i just found:

 

http://www.cell.com/...4131(14)00164-8

 

 

 

Edited by Asor, 04 June 2014 - 10:27 PM.

[Bryan_S]

Yes I inquired with them today and got an update and they said:

 

 

"Please let everyone know we will coordinate another group buy for today 6/19 through next Monday 6/23, with all orders shipping Tuesday.

 

The code will be "Longecity2" once again there will be a 6 bottle minimum."

 

This was kind of sudden so everyone please pass this information on and get the word out. You can purchase 6 bottles or more but 6 is the minimum under this discount.

[Asor]

 

Yes I inquired with them today and got an update and they said:

 

 

"Please let everyone know we will coordinate another group buy for today 6/19 through next Monday 6/23, with all orders shipping Tuesday.

 

The code will be "Longecity2" once again there will be a 6 bottle minimum."

 

This was kind of sudden so everyone please pass this information on and get the word out. You can purchase 6 bottles or more but 6 is the minimum under this discount.

 

 

What's the site again? Probably mentioned several times but i somewhat missed it and i cant find it in this thread.

[Bryan_S]

The web page is http://hpnsupplements.com/products/nr/

 

If there is anything else you want on the website the discount will likely apply.

 

Also I asked if they could extend the window and the discount will now run thru Wednesday 6/25 for 33.60 per bottle.

 

This is being done through HPN Team pricing for Longecity and a number of people missed out last time.

Edited by Bryan_S, 19 June 2014 - 08:27 PM.

[Primal]

Is there anyway we could buy in bulk from ChromaDex? Anybody has a business licence (if its needed)? 

[smithx]

Chromadex is restricting distribution to a small number of licensees. They are not selling to anyone. 

[Primal]

Longecity should start a Co-operative and become a licensee

[smithx]

Based on my conversation with Chromadex, I doubt they would license to a cooperative. They are looking for "premium marketing partners" with an eye towards keeping the product expensive and maximizing revenue.

[Primal]

 I've been taking Cranberry for all of that time. My prostate would get inflamed from the prostatitis and I would get a bladder infection. Unlike all the urologist I've been treated by, Cranberry was very effective at stopping that process.

 

Have you tried niacin for your prostatitis or only NR? You take cranberries or cranberry juice? Would you say NR 4g was nearly as good as the cranberry to keep those symptoms at bay? I suppose you've tried several antibiotics? High dose zinc glycinate?

[Primal]

 

 

By the way, the wholesale price of HPN's Niagen product is $24.95/bottle in quantity 48 or higher. So I would hope they'd give it to us at that price or closer to it.

 

 

 

If they do that, it would most likely need to be shipped to one person. So this presents other challenges in regards to setting up a trusted distributor and how or if they should be compensated for all their work. Shipping may also impact the final total price adversely but I image it would still be cheaper than $33/bottle and certainly better than the retail price of $47.

 

 

I now believe that NR chloride is a valid form of NR that can increase NAD+.

 

I can handle the group buy and charge each buying party my actual USPS postage plus $2 for handling each shipment, accepting payment by check, or by free bank transfer to my bank from your Chase (Quick pay), Bank of America or Wells-Fargo (both use Surepay) bank or Credit card accounts. You enroll for this money transfer service online in your bank or credit card acct., I give you my email, then you send me the money to transfer to my bank. You must send me 10 percent of the total of your order before I order, then the rest just before I ship to you. Available for only USA orders and this money you send me is non-refundable.

 

Postage is from $2.31 to $4.12 for up to 13 ounces, and then $5.70 for over 13 ounces for up to about 12 bottles. Over 12 bottles is about $7.50 postage. Add $3 onto this group buy price of the bottles for handling your order (addressing, packaging, shipping work).

 

I can be trusted totally. I have an Ebay rating of %100 for over 4000 ratings (I sell pet wormers and flea controls on Ebay as pets have been a long time hobby of mine).

 

I will look into getting a price on 100 to 200 (or more) bottles on Monday. When I buy I will provide a copy of the invoice showing the price I paid.

 

 

What happened with that? $24.95/bottle is better than 33 is it not?   48 bottles is not that many, 2-4 of us and we're good to go

 

Btw I'm still looking for evidence that oral NR is not cleaved to niacinamide in the intestine. 

Edited by Primal, 23 June 2014 - 01:25 AM.

[Bryan_S]

"Oral administration of nicotinamide riboside (NR), a vitamin B3 and NAD⁺ precursor, was previously shown to boost NAD⁺ levels in mice and to induce mitochondrial biogenesis."

I'm looking for the original article about oral administration, I'll keep looking.

 

http://onlinelibrary....201403943/full

 

 

[tunt01]

"Oral administration of nicotinamide riboside (NR), a vitamin B3 and NAD⁺ precursor, was previously shown to boost NAD⁺ levels in mice and to induce mitochondrial biogenesis."

I'm looking for the original article about oral administration, I'll keep looking.

 

http://onlinelibrary....201403943/full

 

 

 

Dose says 400 mg/kg or ~32 mg/kg per adult on HED basis.  Therefore 60 kg male = 1,945 mg.  

 

Would be nice to see a study where it had varied dose levels vs. NAD+/NADH ratios in muscle tissue so that we could understand how much matters.

 

If anyone knows of one, I am interested.  Thx.

[Primal]

"Oral administration of nicotinamide riboside (NR), a vitamin B3 and NAD⁺ precursor, was previously shown to boost NAD⁺ levels in mice and to induce mitochondrial biogenesis."

I'm looking for the original article about oral administration, I'll keep looking.

 

http://onlinelibrary....201403943/full

 

ok. did you mean this one http://juvenon.com/j.../Vitamin-NR.pdf ? Since niacinamide has also been shown to boost NAD+ levels and induce mitochondrial biogenesis, the paper you cited does not tell us anything about the fate of the oral NR once it reach the intestine.

Dose says 400 mg/kg or ~32 mg/kg per adult on HED basis.  Therefore 60 kg male = 1,945 mg.  

 

 

 

I'm not convinced that the usual scaling factor applies for vitamin-like substances http://www.longecity...-22#entry670063

Edited by Primal, 23 June 2014 - 04:50 AM.

[tunt01]

 

I'm not convinced that the usual scaling factor applies for vitamin-like substances http://www.longecity...-22#entry670063

 

 

I appreciate your viewpoint and it is well received.  However, I think your suggestion that 25-50g doses be used (presumably by people here) is pretty much insane.  At the very least, we should wait for human data (in process) or you titrate it up over time, perhaps beginning with mouse dose levels.

 

In the absence of better data, I think HED is a pragmatic approach, with acknowledged limits.

[Bryan_S]

 

"Oral administration of nicotinamide riboside (NR), a vitamin B3 and NAD⁺ precursor, was previously shown to boost NAD⁺ levels in mice and to induce mitochondrial biogenesis."

I'm looking for the original article about oral administration, I'll keep looking.

 

http://onlinelibrary....201403943/full

 

ok. did you mean this one http://juvenon.com/j.../Vitamin-NR.pdf ? Since niacinamide has also been shown to boost NAD+ levels and induce mitochondrial biogenesis, the paper you cited does not tell us anything about the fate of the oral NR once it reach the intestine.

Dose says 400 mg/kg or ~32 mg/kg per adult on HED basis.  Therefore 60 kg male = 1,945 mg.  

 

 

 

I'm not convinced that the usual scaling factor applies for vitamin-like substances http://www.longecity...-22#entry670063

 

 

I read that paper as well it only refers to the original study. Not sure if this is the right thread for this oral administration question. What you are seeking are study references to NR as a nutrient or supplement and its absorption. Also I think if your like me you want research independent of Chromadex marketing. Just from memory I remember reading NR was "feed" to mice and raised NAD+ levels better than just ingesting B3.

 

http://www.researchg...human_nutrition

This article talks a little about NR intestinal absorption. View the full text version.

 

And for the rest of the group here is the link to the group buy that's good until next Wednesday. If we want to keep this going High Performance Nutrition wants to sell at least 100 bottles or they will not renew the offer in the future.

Edited by Bryan_S, 23 June 2014 - 08:21 AM.

[Kevnzworld]

I attempted to us the coupon code longecity2 but it didn't work. Any reason why?

[APBT]

I attempted to us the coupon code longecity2 but it didn't work. Any reason why?

 

I just tried Longecity2, with 6 bottles in the cart and it gave me an $86.38 discount; order total: $201.56.  

 

Possibly try another browser? 

[Bryan_S]

I attempted to us the coupon code longecity2 but it didn't work. Any reason why?

 

The browser idea might work or it could be your security settings. You can also go old fashion and pick up the phone, just a suggestion. Good luck

 

Again here is the link to the GROUP BUY that's good until Wednesday 6/25 . . .  which is now the day after tomorrow.

[Bryan_S]

 

"Oral administration of nicotinamide riboside (NR), a vitamin B3 and NAD⁺ precursor, was previously shown to boost NAD⁺ levels in mice and to induce mitochondrial biogenesis."

I'm looking for the original article about oral administration, I'll keep looking.

 

http://onlinelibrary....201403943/full

 

ok. did you mean this one http://juvenon.com/j.../Vitamin-NR.pdf ? Since niacinamide has also been shown to boost NAD+ levels and induce mitochondrial biogenesis, the paper you cited does not tell us anything about the fate of the oral NR once it reach the intestine.

Dose says 400 mg/kg or ~32 mg/kg per adult on HED basis.  Therefore 60 kg male = 1,945 mg.  

 

 

 

I'm not convinced that the usual scaling factor applies for vitamin-like substances http://www.longecity...-22#entry670063

 

 

Forgive me if I missed this in an earlier post but how much are you currently taking? You can PM me if you want? Also I don't believe in those mouse scaling methods either. 

 

"the paper you cited does not tell us anything about the fate of the oral NR once it reach the intestine." This is true they were only interested in what made it to the tissues and which precursors worked best.

 

Footnote: I dont know if we are going to get an exact figure on intestinal absorption. The research only tells us NA and NR were the 2 best orally administered NAD precursors that raised NAD+ levels. NA has some problems of its own and of course some don't like the flush. NR had 2 other factors going for it, one was it found its way in higher amounts to the skeletal muscle to help produce NAD+ which NA didn't do as well and it didn't bind to the GPR109A receptor like NA. Possibly the Groningen Biomolecular Sciences & Biotechnology Institute reasearch with Dr. Michael Jaehme may help answer your questions unless they only take a cell culture path in their study. Maybe it's early enough they'ed consider looking in to digestive absorption rates? So to answer your question "if" it is making its way from your mouth to your intestines it's not being entirely destroyed if its found in the tissues at elevated levels.

 

Announced Mar 19, 2014

"Dr. Michael Jaehme, a researcher at the GBB, will investigate the uptake of NR into cells and how it is converted in the biologically active nucleotides NMN and NAD+. In addition to co-crystallization experiments to study the molecular basis of NR protein interactions, he aims to determine binding constants to quantify the efficiency of cellular NR utilization. Examining these interactions at the molecular level can yield valuable insight into how NR exerts its biological effects."

 

Hope this helps.

 

And for the rest of the group we have just today and tomorrow for the GROUP BUY until it expires.

Edited by Bryan_S, 24 June 2014 - 05:51 AM.

[APBT]

 

I attempted to us the coupon code longecity2 but it didn't work. Any reason why?

 

The browser idea might work or it could be your security settings. You can also go old fashion and pick up the phone, just a suggestion. Good luck

 

Again here is the link to the GROUP BUY that's good until Wednesday 6/25 . . .  which is now the day after tomorrow.

 

 

The coupon has expired - early?  I thought it was supposed to still be good today, Wednesday 25 June. 

[Fima Kachinski]

 

 

I attempted to us the coupon code longecity2 but it didn't work. Any reason why?

 

The browser idea might work or it could be your security settings. You can also go old fashion and pick up the phone, just a suggestion. Good luck

 

Again here is the link to the GROUP BUY that's good until Wednesday 6/25 . . .  which is now the day after tomorrow.

 

 

The coupon has expired - early?  I thought it was supposed to still be good today, Wednesday 25 June. 

 

 

I thought the coupon was good for today also, but turns out yesterday was probably the last day. Might have been a communication error on the part of whoever posted the coupon extension details.

 

On a side note, I ordered a few bottles from Live Cell Research... will update on that once they arrive. 

[APBT]

I contacted HPN about the coupon being expired.  They replied promptly saying it was a 'glitch'.  The coupon Longecity2 now works - through today, Wednesday 25 June. 

[Bryan_S]

I contacted HPN about the coupon being expired.  They replied promptly saying it was a 'glitch'.  The coupon Longecity2 now works - through today, Wednesday 25 June. 

 

Thanks for straightening that out APBT, I was at the office while that was going on.

 

The group buy expired yesterday and there were approximately 22 of us who participated. We narrowly surpassed the HPN minimum buy requirements to remain eligible and have been offered another discount opportunity in 2 months. Maybe some of you can help create a little anticipation so we can keep this going. We will hold this next GROUP BUY of Niagen sometime between August 15-20th. I'll organize it if you want me to remain in this roll or we can appoint another member?

 

Bryan

 

PS disclosure, other than receiving the same discount as you I've received no compensation or incentives from the distributer.

[nbourbaki]

 

I contacted HPN about the coupon being expired.  They replied promptly saying it was a 'glitch'.  The coupon Longecity2 now works - through today, Wednesday 25 June. 

 

Thanks for straightening that out APBT, I was at the office while that was going on.

 

The group buy expired yesterday and there were approximately 22 of us who participated. We narrowly surpassed the HPN minimum buy requirements to remain eligible and have been offered another discount opportunity in 2 months. Maybe some of you can help create a little anticipation so we can keep this going. We will hold this next GROUP BUY of Niagen sometime between August 15-20th. I'll organize it if you want me to remain in this roll or we can appoint another member?

 

Bryan

 

 

PS disclosure, other than receiving the same discount as you I've received no compensation or incentives from the distributer.

 

 

Bryan,

 

I think part of the problem here is that there was very little notification this was coming and the timeframe the pricing would be in effect.  I found out about it in the bulk group buy thread.  The other part of the problem is pricing.  When HPN was the only game in town, the price was fantastic.  Now I can buy from  Live Cell Research at $36.50 a bottle for 9 bottles any day of the week.  So for the HPN product it's a 30% discount.  Compared to the Live Cell it's a 8% discount.

 

I still bought 20 bottles, but it's not the value proposition it used to be.

[Bryan_S]

Bryan,

 

I think part of the problem here is that there was very little notification this was coming and the timeframe the pricing would be in effect.  I found out about it in the bulk group buy thread.  The other part of the problem is pricing.  When HPN was the only game in town, the price was fantastic.  Now I can buy from  Live Cell Research at $36.50 a bottle for 9 bottles any day of the week.  So for the HPN product it's a 30% discount.  Compared to the Live Cell it's a 8% discount.

 

I still bought 20 bottles, but it's not the value proposition it used to be.

 

 

Thanks and I agree with you. If you followed the thread from its beginnings I made an inquiry with HPN as to the next buy cycle and BAM it was in effect with no notice. Now that I posted some dates we'll have time to build up some anticipation.

 

Here is the story on Live Cell Research, there were some questions posted earlier and this is what I found. I was hoping they were an entirely different source but it turns out they are another distributer under ChromaDex. For some reason there wasn't a press release so we might find there is more to this story. They market their product under the name Niagen. This name is registered and owned under ChromaDex See URL

http://www.trademark...85932490-niagen

 

They are also using a video of Dr. David Sinclair in this advertisement, so this distributer may have a relationship with him.

http://www.realscien...y-to-stop-aging

 

As ChromaDex licensees more distributers this is bound to move the price down. I like competition and we can use that to our advantage at some point but we need a larger recognized purchasing presence. That will take some time and a demonstration of performance.

Edited by Bryan_S, 27 June 2014 - 06:49 AM.

[hav]

One difference I note is that Live Cell is putting 250 mg/cap in each 30 cap bottle compared to HPN whose caps contain 125 mg/cap in each 60 cap bottle.  I would assume using fewer and larger caps lowers costs for Live Cell.  Personally I'd prefer 512 mg caps and less filler but that may not be possible if the purity of the raw material supplied by Cromadex is not high enough.

 

Howard

 

Edited by hav, 28 June 2014 - 03:41 PM.

[nbourbaki]

One difference I note is that Live Cell is putting 250 mg/cap in each 30 cap bottle compared to HPN whose caps contain 125 mg/cap in each 60 cap bottle.  I would assume using fewer and larger caps lowers costs for Live Cell.  Personally I'd prefer 512 mg caps and less filler but that may not be possible if the purity of the raw material supplied by Cromadex is not high enough.

 

Howard

 

 

I agree with you on the larger dose size.  I save my Live Cell capsules for business trips.  Much easier to carry what I need and I'm not downing 8 capsules at a time.  I would also like a larger capsule with less filler.

[Primal]

Forgive me if I missed this in an earlier post but how much are you currently taking? You can PM me if you want? Also I don't believe in those mouse scaling methods either. 

 

"the paper you cited does not tell us anything about the fate of the oral NR once it reach the intestine." This is true they were only interested in what made it to the tissues and which precursors worked best.

 

Footnote: I dont know if we are going to get an exact figure on intestinal absorption. The research only tells us NA and NR were the 2 best orally administered NAD precursors that raised NAD+ levels. NA has some problems of its own and of course some don't like the flush. NR had 2 other factors going for it, one was it found its way in higher amounts to the skeletal muscle to help produce NAD+ which NA didn't do as well and it didn't bind to the GPR109A receptor like NA. Possibly the Groningen Biomolecular Sciences & Biotechnology Institute reasearch with Dr. Michael Jaehme may help answer your questions unless they only take a cell culture path in their study. Maybe it's early enough they'ed consider looking in to digestive absorption rates? So to answer your question "if" it is making its way from your mouth to your intestines it's not being entirely destroyed if its found in the tissues at elevated levels.

 

Announced Mar 19, 2014

"Dr. Michael Jaehme, a researcher at the GBB, will investigate the uptake of NR into cells and how it is converted in the biologically active nucleotides NMN and NAD+. In addition to co-crystallization experiments to study the molecular basis of NR protein interactions, he aims to determine binding constants to quantify the efficiency of cellular NR utilization. Examining these interactions at the molecular level can yield valuable insight into how NR exerts its biological effects."

 

Hope this helps.

 

 

What I would like to see is evidence that oral NR performs better than oral niacinamide. Because the paper that has been posted in this forum a few times http://jn.nutrition..../2/412.full.pdf says specifically that oral NR is cleaved to nicotinamide in the intestine prior to intestinal absorption. So oral NR no better than oral niacinamide.

 

 

[Bryan_S]

What I would like to see is evidence that oral NR performs better than oral niacinamide. Because the paper that has been posted in this forum a few times http://jn.nutrition..../2/412.full.pdf says specifically that oral NR is cleaved to nicotinamide in the intestine prior to intestinal absorption. So oral NR no better than oral niacinamide.

 

 

 

 

Off topic:

 

We have a number of people talking about doses exceeding 3 g/day for (NR). Now I've read the same papers you've read and of the NAD precursors (NR) hasn't proven to be toxic at any ingested level at this point or contraindicated if you have any pre-exsisting illnesses. The same can not be said about niacinamide or niacin. I think it has a lot to do with how tolerant you are to the side effects of B3 at high doses and the actual amounts absorbed that finally become NAD.

 

Some people have gone the NADH path to avoid the niacinamide/niacin side effects at high doses but as we've come to learn NADH it is broken down into (NR) and (NMN) before absorption in the intestine anyway. It is better tolerated than niacinamide or niacin but more expensive than (NR).

 

So the question becomes how much niacinamide or niacin do you need to take to get the same benefit as nicotinamide riboside (NR)? 

 

When doses of over 3 grams per day of niacin are taken, more serious side effects can happen. These include liver problems, gout, ulcers of the digestive tract, loss of vision, high blood sugar, irregular heartbeat, and other serious problems. Similar side effects can happen with large doses of niacinamide.

 

So put all the options side by side and see where the highest benefits are derived?

 

I'm currently awaiting the PK data on (NR) to do my analysis. 

 

We should probably start a new thread for this topic, this could be a good topic in open discussion.

Edited by Bryan_S, 29 June 2014 - 09:51 PM.