241 replies to this topic

[Primal]

 of the NAD precursors (NR) hasn't proven to be toxic at any ingested level at this point or contraindicated if you have any pre-exsisting illnesses. The same can not be said about niacinamide or niacin.

 

When doses of over 3 grams per day of niacin are taken, more serious side effects can happen. These include liver problems, gout, ulcers of the digestive tract, loss of vision, high blood sugar, irregular heartbeat, and other serious problems. Similar side effects can happen with large doses of niacinamide.

 

 

 

If indeed NR is entirely cleaved to niacinamide in the intestine, then it does not make a difference if you ingest NR or niacinamide. Both will have the same toxicity profile. 

 

 

I'm currently awaiting the PK data on (NR) to do my analysis. 

 

 

from who/where?

[Bryan_S]

Primal, on 29 Jun 2014 - 7:02 PM, said:

 

Bryan_S, on 29 Jun 2014 - 5:44 PM, said:

 of the NAD precursors (NR) hasn't proven to be toxic at any ingested level at this point or contraindicated if you have any pre-exsisting illnesses. The same can not be said about niacinamide or niacin.

 

When doses of over 3 grams per day of niacin are taken, more serious side effects can happen. These include liver problems, gout, ulcers of the digestive tract, loss of vision, high blood sugar, irregular heartbeat, and other serious problems. Similar side effects can happen with large doses of niacinamide.

 

 

 

If indeed NR is entirely cleaved to niacinamide in the intestine, then it does not make a difference if you ingest NR or niacinamide. Both will have the same toxicity profile. 

 

Bryan_S, on 29 Jun 2014 - 5:44 PM, said:

 

I'm currently awaiting the PK data on (NR) to do my analysis. 

 

 

from who/where?

 

 

You would think if this were true but where is the Niacin flush, where are the typical side effects? The possibility exists that NR may be absorbed without further cleavage. They make that statement as well. Some doubt must have existed because they made this statement at the top of the paper. Let's keep in mind this paper was published in 1982-83. They were also tracing radioactive isotopes. What about other corroborating research on that point?

 

I've been pushing for follow up information from a ChromaDex press release. I received a comment that a PK study is coming from one of the Niagen (NR) associates, evidently it is ongoing, or will be soon and has not reached publication. I tried to narrow it down and "The Company expects to initiate in October 2013 its first human clinical study on NIAGEN nicotinamide riboside. The pharmacokinetics (PK) study on NIAGEN will measure its effectiveness as a precursor to NAD+, a coenzyme that has crucial roles in many biochemical and biologic processes." (Where is the data? When is it coming? Why is it delayed?) More could also be coming from Dr. Michael Jaehme, a researcher at GBB, who will investigate the uptake of NR into cells and how it is converted into the biologically active nucleotides NMN and NAD+.

 

The absents of a Niacin flush makes me scratch my head on the 1983 paper. Has anyone confirmed the ChromaDex Niagen as nicotinamide riboside, according to the 1983 study your body should react to it as niacin, right?  So we need up-to-date research, I for one haven't seen the data I'm looking for and I know you haven't.

Edited by Bryan_S, 30 June 2014 - 12:42 AM.

[Primal]

 

 

You would think if this were true but where is the Niacin flush, where are the typical side effects? 

 

The absents of a Niacin flush makes me scratch my head on the 1983 paper. Has anyone confirmed the ChromaDex Niagen as nicotinamide riboside, according to the 1983 study your body should react to it as niacin, right? 

 

 

Based on their experiments NR is cleaved to niacinamide, not niacin, so no niacin flush..

 

Maybe in higher doses the hydrolysis/phosphorylysis of NR is too slow and more NR is absorbed intact. Perhaps we should email ChromaDex or Dr. Jaehme about that.

[Bryan_S]

Re: niacinamide (NAM)

 

Sorry I was at the station getting ready to go on air when the laptop battery ran out. Here is the best of what I was pulling together when the computer quit. 

 

Side Effects and Toxicity  Because the literature on niacinamide spans more than 50 years, evaluation of toxicity is conflicting. Data on the side effects of niacinamide and niacin are often confused as earlier studies used mixtures of the two in preparations. Furthermore, the purity of niacinamide preparations varies considerably as some preparations include trace amounts of niacin. 6 Older clinical studies report relatively frequent liver enzyme abnormalities; 42 however, recent studies using purified niacinamide have not detected such abnormalities.17,23 Nausea is usually the first side effect noted with niacinamide. Other side effects associated with high-dose niacinamide include heartburn, vomiting, flatulence, and diarrhea. Mild headaches and dizziness have been reported after giving niacinamide parenterally.43

 

Dosage  The recommended daily intake (RDA) is 20 mg per day for an adult. The dose used in diabetic and prediabetic individuals ranges from 1.75- 3.5 grams per day. In diabetic children, a daily dose of 150-300 mg/year of age, up to 3 grams is often used.44 Self medication of high-dose niacinamide should be discouraged.

http://www.wellcorps...iacinamide.html

 

Primal if nicotinamide riboside (NR) is reduced to niacinamide in the intestine anyway why buy the over priced (NR) in the first place. The above passage spells out the confusion surrounding niacinamide (NAM), It does not have the side effects of Niacin, which is a positive point for (NR), the link above also infers some (NAM) sources may include niacin, which is important. We need to confirm all this and check it twice. Let be loud about this because at the doses some members are talking about with (NR) we wouldn't want Niacin toxicity problems from mixed unproven product. As far as we know (NR) has no Niacin mixed into the product. So if we ditch (NR) for niacinamide (NAM) and I say "if," and you are correct we have all been following the (NR) literature blindly. Pretty big stuff if you're right!

 

Cheaper by many factors, not even looking for a deal 99.5% pure niacinamide (NAM) goes for 178 dollars a kilo from Sigma, and they are typically not a bargain but you can count on the published purity.

 

Primal I don't even want to get into the other implications here if this is correct.

 

OK so we need some justification on the (NR) side that gives us a reason to buy it and "not" switch. Also we dont know for sure if nicotinamide riboside (NR) is not being absorbed without conversion. I get the feeling unless I see it spelled out different in the latest research that (NR) is absorbed and some may be converted to (NAM). My next question is why are there just 2 of us in this discussion, this is a forum isn't it?

 

Told ya this should be a thread of its own!

Edited by Bryan_S, 30 June 2014 - 06:24 AM.

[Kevnzworld]

 
Primal I don't even want to get into the other implications here if this is correct.
 
OK so we need some justification on the (NR) side that gives us a reason to buy it and "not" switch. My next question is why are there just 2 of us in this discussion, this is a forum isn't it?
 
Told ya this should be a thread of its own!

The discussion regarding the science and studies that support NR ( or don't ) is in the " David Sinclair strikes again thread ".

[Bryan_S]

The discussion regarding the science and studies that support NR ( or don't ) is in the " David Sinclair strikes again thread ".

 

 

I'll re-read that thread in fact I'm halfway through it as I write this. Primal's point is that (NR) is broken down into (NAM) in the intestine then absorbed. Cleaved is the word he's using from the 1983 paper.  The (NAM) is then converted to (NR) again then finally to nicotinamide mononucleotide (NMN) where David Sinclair did his research and then it's ultimately converted to NAD+.

 

So the point he's making is why not just buy the niacinamide (NAM) if your body is breaking down the (NR) anyway during intestinal absorption. Both of us have been looking for research that clearly says (NR) is directly absorbed without conversion by the mucosa of the mouth or digestive track. So far I'm not seeing that as a topic in the "David Sinclair strikes again thread."

Edited by Bryan_S, 30 June 2014 - 07:24 AM.

[Kevnzworld]

The discussion regarding the science and studies that support NR ( or don't ) is in the " David Sinclair strikes again thread ".
 

 
I'll re-read that thread in fact I'm halfway through it as I write this. Primal's point is that (NR) is broken down into (NAM) in the intestine then absorbed. Cleaved is the word he's using from the 1983 paper.  The (NAM) is then converted to (NR) again then finally to nicotinamide mononucleotide (NMN) where David Sinclair did his research and then it's ultimately converted to NAD+.
 
So the point he's making is why not just buy the niacinamide (NAM) if your body is breaking down the (NR) anyway during intestinal absorption. Both of us have been looking for research that clearly says (NR) is directly absorbed without conversion by the mucosa of the mouth or digestive track. So far I'm not seeing that as a topic in the "David Sinclair strikes again thread."

Well post your question or concerns about bioavailability and conversion in that thread. Not in the group buy thread...your posts regarding this topic are repetitive

Edited by Kevnzworld, 30 June 2014 - 07:27 AM.

[Bryan_S]

Moved to its own thread http://www.longecity...ed/#entry671920

[Asor]

Hey guys i got some really interesting news.

As i mentioned, i have mitochondrial myopathy (CPEO kind) and i got in contact with one of the scientist whos doing studies on Nicotinamide Riboside and other component of Vitamin B3 and its effect on mitochondria.

From what i gather, the study had some very interesting results on animal models and they're now moving to patient trials.

 

This guy is a researcher at the university of Cambridge, so i guess that's pretty much the highest level.

I asked him to connect me to a neurologist in Italy involved in this and he suggested me a visit to a Hospital in Milan which is connected to the Cambridge group and the Finnish group who are involved in this study. (im Italian and live in Italy).

 

So i went to this neurologist who visited me (very long and thorough visit) , she gave me a slight change in my therapy (she prescribed me Idebenone instead of Coenzime Q10), then we got to the part i was more interest in, the Nicotinamide Riboside patient trial.

 

So... they keep it vague, but i gathered that this thing could be for real, that the patients with this kind of genetic disorder are a little number (many might have it but are not diagnosed) so that i will most likely be accepted in the trial, and the most surprising thing is that she told me that if i can get my hand on Nicotinamide Riboside supplements, to try it right now.

 

I asked the dosage, and she told me, for now, to follow what is suggested in the supplement itself, even though that study used a larger dosage.

She told me all this "unofficially"... not written down or anything like that if you know what i mean.

As last words, she also told me that it cant give me any side effects, so i have nothing to lose.

 

Another thing: the scientist in email told me that, most likely "the study wont be with Nicotinamide Riboside, which is a component only available for experimental purpose, but with other similar components, in particular other components of Vitamin B3."

 

Keep in mind this is translated by me from Italian to English, so it might not sound very educated.

Im also tired after a 5 hour drive, with my half-fucked up tired eyes.

 

In his last email he also told me the different groups involved had a scheduled meeting in the last weeks to coordinate the efforts.

 

They should already have had that, so today after the visit with the neurologist i shot him another email asking for news, now im waiting for an answer, hopefully.

 

That is all, might add something later when i metabolize all the info i received today, ask away if you have any questions.

 

For sure i will be part of the next group-buy.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Asor]

oh and some interesting news about ChromaDex:

 

http://finance.yahoo...-122000301.html

 

Nobel Laureate Roger Kornberg to Chair New ChromaDex Scientific Advisory Board

The ChromaDex SAB will be chaired by Kornberg, a Professor at Stanford Medical School, who was awarded the Nobel Prize in Chemistry in 2006 for his research on the molecular basis of eukaryotic transcription.

 

Kornberg's father, the late Arthur Kornberg, was a professor of biochemistry at Stanford and was awarded the Nobel Prize for physiology or medicine in 1959. He was among the first to investigate nicotinamide riboside more than 60 years while at the NIH.

 

[midas]

Hey guys i got some really interesting news.

As i mentioned, i have mitochondrial myopathy (CPEO kind) and i got in contact with one of the scientist whos doing studies on Nicotinamide Riboside and other component of Vitamin B3 and its effect on mitochondria.

From what i gather, the study had some very interesting results on animal models and they're now moving to patient trials.

 

This guy is a researcher at the university of Cambridge, so i guess that's pretty much the highest level.

I asked him to connect me to a neurologist in Italy involved in this and he suggested me a visit to a Hospital in Milan which is connected to the Cambridge group and the Finnish group who are involved in this study. (im Italian and live in Italy).

 

So i went to this neurologist who visited me (very long and thorough visit) , she gave me a slight change in my therapy (she prescribed me Idebenone instead of Coenzime Q10), then we got to the part i was more interest in, the Nicotinamide Riboside patient trial.

 

So... they keep it vague, but i gathered that this thing could be for real, that the patients with this kind of genetic disorder are a little number (many might have it but are not diagnosed) so that i will most likely be accepted in the trial, and the most surprising thing is that she told me that if i can get my hand on Nicotinamide Riboside supplements, to try it right now.

 

I asked the dosage, and she told me, for now, to follow what is suggested in the supplement itself, even though that study used a larger dosage.

She told me all this "unofficially"... not written down or anything like that if you know what i mean.

As last words, she also told me that it cant give me any side effects, so i have nothing to lose.

 

Another thing: the scientist in email told me that, most likely "the study wont be with Nicotinamide Riboside, which is a component only available for experimental purpose, but with other similar components, in particular other components of Vitamin B3."

 

Keep in mind this is translated by me from Italian to English, so it might not sound very educated.

Im also tired after a 5 hour drive, with my half-fucked up tired eyes.

 

In his last email he also told me the different groups involved had a scheduled meeting in the last weeks to coordinate the efforts.

 

They should already have had that, so today after the visit with the neurologist i shot him another email asking for news, now im waiting for an answer, hopefully.

 

That is all, might add something later when i metabolize all the info i received today, ask away if you have any questions.

 

For sure i will be part of the next group-buy.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Very interesting Asor.....I hope this works out for you.

 

One thing that I find a little confusing is that she has told you to start taking NR if she is considering you for the trial.

I would have thought for the trial, they would want to start on a the B3 related compound (which I suspect will be NMN) without anything else from that compound family clouding the issue?

 

Either way it sounds like she has already got confidence in the NR doing you some good, which is great for you and your health issues

 

Good luck.
 

Edited by midas, 10 July 2014 - 05:15 PM.

[Primal]

 

Another thing: the scientist in email told me that, most likely "the study wont be with Nicotinamide Riboside, which is a component only available for experimental purpose, but with other similar components, in particular other components of Vitamin B3."

 

 

The researcher at the university of Cambridge wrote that word-for-word in English, or that was written in Italian which you translated?

 

Also besides  Idebenone and Coenzime Q10 what other meds/supps are you on and have you tried for your mitochondriial disorder?

Edited by Primal, 10 July 2014 - 06:34 PM.

[Asor]

 

 

Another thing: the scientist in email told me that, most likely "the study wont be with Nicotinamide Riboside, which is a component only available for experimental purpose, but with other similar components, in particular other components of Vitamin B3."

 

 

The researcher at the university of Cambridge wrote that word-for-word in English, or that was written in Italian which you translated?

 

Also besides  Idebenone and Coenzime Q10 what other meds/supps are you on and have you tried for your mitochondriial disorder?

 

 

He wrote to me in Italian, he's Italian but works at Cambridge, i translated to english.

 

The first neurologist prescribed me Coenzime q10,  l-carnitine and Vitamine E.

Initially it was just 100mg of Coenzime q10 (ubiquinone) and 1gr/day l-carnitine, then after one year increased Coenzime q10 to 300mg, confirmed 1gr/day l-carnitine and recently added 400 IU vitamin E (which im not sure i want to take due to the issues with prostate cancer, look up SELECT study, that shit is scary).

 

The second neurologist that i seen yesterday prescribed just Idebenone (400mg/day), even though she said that if i want i can continue with l-carnitine and vitamine E but they dont consider them very helpful or proven.

 

Bottom line, from what she told me, there is very little studies about treatments for mitochodrial myopathies and the clinical doctors themselves dont have a lot of material to work with, so it's not easy to prescribe the "correct" therapy and all these supplements are far from being proven to be effective.

At least they dont have adverse effects.

 

 

Edited by Asor, 11 July 2014 - 04:25 AM.

[Asor]

Very interesting Asor.....I hope this works out for you.

 

One thing that I find a little confusing is that she has told you to start taking NR if she is considering you for the trial.

I would have thought for the trial, they would want to start on a the B3 related compound (which I suspect will be NMN) without anything else from that compound family clouding the issue?

 

Either way it sounds like she has already got confidence in the NR doing you some good, which is great for you and your health issues

 

Good luck.
 

 

 

Yes that's a bit confusing and i was surprised as well...but let me clarify:

 

the suggestion about trying out Nicotinamide Riboside came from the neurologist who visited me yesterday, who's a clinical

doctor and the suggestion came after i asked directly about an "unofficial" opinion about whether it could be a good idea to try NR by myself, so it's unrelated to the possible future trial. I literally asked while walking out the door and she told me i can try.

 

BTW, just a few minutes a go i received the answer from the researcher at Cambridge, and this is what he told me about the current situation:

 

The organization of a trial is very complex and requires a lot of time, he can presume that it might start this late autumn, but he's not sure at this moment.

 

The trial WONT be with nicotinamide riboside because it's too expensive to involve a large number of patients.

Same for the trial that is being organized by the Finnish group.

 

-Either them and the finnish will be using other precursors of NAD, that in theory should work in the same way.

The Cambridge group is oriented on Nicotinnamide, the Finnish group on Nicotinic Acid (i hope i translated it correctly, he wrote "Acido Nicotinico" in italian).

 

Either substances have already been tested on humans, which is another reason why they use them instead of NR, but have some disadvantages: Nicotinic Acid is more toxic, Nicotinnamide is less toxic, but initially it could have a contrary effect in respect of what it is wanted to achieve.

 

I mentioned Chromadex to him, he told it's one of the producers of high quality NR.

He said he CANT encourage me to try it by myself because i would be without medical control (and he said that the effects of NR on humans is unknown yet), the other reason is because to understand whether there is some improvements, we need "objective parameters", my subjective feeling wont be enough to say whether it works (i obviously agree with that, makes sense).

 

Then he says that the pathology they want to trial is exactly the one i have, and that i have very high probability of being chosen.

 

Finally, he tells me to wait a little and eventually coordinate the next moves with the neurologist that visited me yesterday (which was suggested by him).

 

 

That's it.

 

Finally he told me to feel free to ask any other questions, so if you folk have any idea, give me some hints, they guy is really approachable and willing to help.

 

At this point the questions i have are:

 

-how can they test "objective parameters" to figure out whether the NR (or substitute) is efficient? If this in not overly complicated or invasive, i could have it tested myself in some local labs.

 

-Another thing that confuses me is: Nicotinamide Riboside is not tested on humans so they rather use some other similar compounds (also due to the cost). But isnt this the point of doing an human trial? Somebody has to bite the bullet i guess, might as well be me.

 

In conclusion, im not sure yet whether to start experimenting myself with NR, as you say this might cloud the situation regarding the future official trial, even though the clinical doctor seemed to be rather positive regarding NR and the researcher didnt really completely shut me down either on that idea.

 

He didnt say "no that's crazy dont even think about it" but "he cant really encourage me", so, reading between the lines, it might not be a totally bad idea to try NR.

 

On the other hand, i dont really have "urgent" difficulties with my condition, so waiting some months is not going to change anything for me, it's a very long term issue, slowly progressing and developing.

 

What is concerning me at the moment is that they might go with less effective compounds for economic reasons, while i'd rather spend some money myself if NR is a better overall solution compared to the other NAD precursors.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[maxwatt]

I have gotten some lab results of an analysis of Niagen:  exclusive of fillers and excipients, it is abount 90% NR, and 10% niacinamide, plus a trace, around 0.05% methylnicotinate.

 

This was a surprise, but maybe shouldn't have been given the synthesis procedure.

Edited by maxwatt, 17 July 2014 - 06:36 PM.

[Asor]

there was some talking about a new group-buy in August, are we going to do it?

 

[APBT]

there was some talking about a new group-buy in August, are we going to do it?

 

See Niagen Nicotinamide Riboside LONGECITY Group Buy

[Asor]

Hi i got some good news from the Cambridge University researcher i am in contact with.

 

Their group recently reached a deal with Cromadex, so their study on it's effect on humans with mitochondrial myopathies, which im going to be most likely part of, it's going to be made using Nicotinamide Riboside and not other NAD precursors as initially planned (because NR, at normal price, was considered too expensive for a large study).

 

Chromadex itself is undergoing some parallel study to figure out the most effective dosages and the results should be available in a few months.

 

He also told me that i should avoid taking the NR myself for the time being, because that would exclude me from the possibility of being part of the study (fortunately i haven't, yet).

 

I received his email few hours ago but noticed it on my phone just now while just going into bed (it's almost 3 am here), i got up from bed to post this, lol.

 

I wrote him an email because i was concerned about using other precursors considering the study on mice that had some very good results was done using NR - few hours later he answered me with the good news.

 

Im usually kind of reluctant from writing to him because i dont want to be "that" guy who reads stuff on the internet and pesters doctors with stupid questions, but every time he tells me to not worry about and even thanked me for my inputs, he's really cool.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Bryan_S]

OK guys High Performance Nutrition (HPN) sent me the specifics of this months 30% discount offering for Niagen | Nicotinamide Riboside. See URL

[Primal]

Asor, keep us posted. I'm eager to see if you will be allowed to stay on other mitochondrial supps like ubiquinol during the NR study. Also the dose etc

[Asor]

Asor, keep us posted. I'm eager to see if you will be allowed to stay on other mitochondrial supps like ubiquinol during the NR study. Also the dose etc

 

For sure.

 

The part im looking forward the most is that during the study they will be doing some testing on me to verify the effects of NR, something i never did before at all, basically i dont even know whether the therapy i am on at this point in time has any effects on me, beside how i feel and that's very subjective and influenced by life-style, diet and so on.

 

Talking with my new neurologist i had the impression that the knowledge about Mitochondrial Myopathies is very poor, because there are so little studies on it and the clinicians have very little data to work on.

 

My first neurologist initially gave me 100mg of CoQ10 and 1gr of l-carnitine daily, after one year upped the coq10 to 300mg and added 400iu of Vitamine E (the dosage is very low on coq10, especially the initial 100mg).

 

My new neurologist scratched that and gave me 400mg /day of Idebenone.

 

I think none of them are "wrong" because the studies available on the effects of such supplements on this condition are very limited and sporadic.

 

Got to say that my symptoms arent that bad all considering, my main issue is with eye muscles weakness (had two surgeries already to compensate a little), the patients with such condition are usually much worse off, with sever symptoms, sometimes life threatening.

 

Cases like mine most of the times arent even diagnosed, in my case i was very stubborn and pestered several neurologists in the last years until they finally got a diagnosis (and that needed a biopsy + dna testing).

[Bryan_S]

 

Asor, keep us posted. I'm eager to see if you will be allowed to stay on other mitochondrial supps like ubiquinol during the NR study. Also the dose etc

 

For sure.

 

The part im looking forward the most is that during the study they will be doing some testing on me to verify the effects of NR, something i never did before at all, basically i dont even know whether the therapy i am on at this point in time has any effects on me, beside how i feel and that's very subjective and influenced by life-style, diet and so on.

 

Talking with my new neurologist i had the impression that the knowledge about Mitochondrial Myopathies is very poor, because there are so little studies on it and the clinicians have very little data to work on.

 

My first neurologist initially gave me 100mg of CoQ10 and 1gr of l-carnitine daily, after one year upped the coq10 to 300mg and added 400iu of Vitamine E (the dosage is very low on coq10, especially the initial 100mg).

 

My new neurologist scratched that and gave me 400mg /day of Idebenone.

 

I think none of them are "wrong" because the studies available on the effects of such supplements on this condition are very limited and sporadic.

 

Got to say that my symptoms arent that bad all considering, my main issue is with eye muscles weakness (had two surgeries already to compensate a little), the patients with such condition are usually much worse off, with sever symptoms, sometimes life threatening.

 

Cases like mine most of the times arent even diagnosed, in my case i was very stubborn and pestered several neurologists in the last years until they finally got a diagnosis (and that needed a biopsy + dna testing).

 

 

Asor, Good luck and keep us posted! I'm sure you're up on all the new treatment research but Another potential protein that is still in the wings is rhTFAM which I've been watching for a few years. This one has also hit the longevity threads but hasn't left the lab yet. It's a novel human mitochondrial protein shown to increase mitochondrial function in cell and animal models. Google RhTFAM treatment It seems so many ailments like yours and aging overall are related to a reduction in mitochondrial function and (NR) is just one treatment path under investigation. Again keep us posted!

[Primal]

 finally got a diagnosis (and that needed a biopsy + dna testing).

 

 

They did a biopsy of which tissue, muscle? Also they were able to find a deletion/polymorphism in your (mitochondrial?) DNA and somehow work out that this is what must be giving you your symptoms? Did they compare your DNA with healthy family members in order to do that?

[Synchro]

 

I have some concerns over safety of LT use of this product. If anyone can answer these questions, I would be appreciative:

1. Half life of NR. How long does this stay in the system? I think it's best used in pulsatile fashion.
2. Downregulation of P53. If the NAD+/NADH ratio is adjusted substantially, SIRT1 upregulated, then P53 becomes downregulated. How do we mitigate the cancer risks associated with this outcome of opposing P53? EOD usage? Alternative solutions to upregulating P53? The dosage scheme that this company has come up with does not seem to be rooted in any scientific thought (at least for LT use).

The product is amazing, but maybe too good for a reason.

Standard nicotinamide is eliminated in .6 of an hour at 2.5 mg/ kg, longer as the dose increases. One side effect of high doses of nicotinamide is methyl group depletion.
http://diabetes.diab.../2/152.full.pdf
What the company didn't say about their in house testers,, was how effective the low 250 mg dose was at raising NAD vs 500 mg. it will be interesting to see if they publish the " ongoing clinical study ".
I believe that Metformin up regulates P53 as it's anti cancer MOA . Unfortunately it also suppresses NAD somewhat, as do NSAIDs like aspirin if I remember correctly.

 

 

Just started NR. My first 200 mg dose was amazing; wowser, quite a high and I felt like I was floating, my muscles had so much strength and energy.

 

Next day...not so much. Still feel better, but not that first rush. I am contemplating 200 mg three times a day.

 

But does anyone have suggestions on what I do about the methyl group depletion, since I am horribly type II diabetic?

 

Very Best, Synchro

[Vastmandana]

I think tmg and SAMe have been mentioned as methyl group suppliers....I've added both

 

Being a non-chemist infomaniac I think the greatest wisdom I've derived about this subject is that we are dealing with a system that is soooooo complex and poorly understood that we are at this point in time human guinea pigs. As Dr Leonard Guarente of MIT notes, if you are an older person like me... are you going to wait till we know all the answers, some 15 years down the road or look at the perceived preliminary results which are kinda mindboggling  

and attempt to rebathe the cells in our failing bodies in NAD to reactivate our engines of life...

 

I feel we are in a pivotal moment on planet eaarth...when as a species we will either deal with the tidal waves of climate, ecological suicide, and the wonders of science which are within our grasp to take hold of and radically modify the future...or we won't.  I want to be part of this moment in time...an effective moment...

 

I'm 64...my only daughter is 13... I know what I am going to do....

 

btw, don't really understand some of the "WOW" comments... maybe as I've got lots of longevity inputs already... I did feel "floaty" the first couple days but while I'm over 1g/day now, I find the only HUGE discernible  change is my ability to see the combination numbers on my gate locks in the evening which were impossible to see before... This, for me, is clear proof things are happening...cell phone data is becoming more legible now...and I haven't used my costco magnifier glasses in a week...and stairs are a bit easier to navigate.

 

As we are truly flying blind at this point, I'm taking the long view... figure it will be months till I can really report objectively as things are so subjective in this realm...

 

If you are older like me and are trying this, add a teaspoon of micronized resveratrol to your adventure.... it appears it will be activated by the higher levels of NAD in the cells... I went powder from MEGA... tasteless and goes down easy with coffee/tea or whatever...

Edited by Vastmandana, 22 October 2014 - 06:41 PM.

[Asor]

 

 finally got a diagnosis (and that needed a biopsy + dna testing).

 

 

They did a biopsy of which tissue, muscle? Also they were able to find a deletion/polymorphism in your (mitochondrial?) DNA and somehow work out that this is what must be giving you your symptoms? Did they compare your DNA with healthy family members in order to do that?

 

 

sorry about the late response, i must have missed this message.

Anyway, the biopsy was made on my shoulder's skeletal muscle, and they found ragged red fibers (sign of mitochondrial myopathy).

Then they tested mtdna and found macro-deletions.

Those macro-deletions in mtdna is definitive prove the mitochondrial myopathy.

No comparison with family members, and all my family members are healthy.

Mitochondrial dna is passed down only by the mother but i guess you know that.

You can have mtdna mutations but at the same time you can have no symptoms whatsoever.

[pleiotropic]

I have gotten some lab results of an analysis of Niagen:  exclusive of fillers and excipients, it is abount 90% NR, and 10% niacinamide, plus a trace, around 0.05% methylnicotinate.

 

This was a surprise, but maybe shouldn't have been given the synthesis procedure.

 

If the bulk powder is only 90% pure with 10% niacinamide - is it still worth taking?   What's the pharmacological effect of high dose niacinamide in terms of longevity and health?  Does it compete with NR and lessen the effectiveness?  If this test result is true - isn't it misleading to sell the product like this?

Shouldn't the bulk powder be tested too?

 

Thread where bulk powder is being advertised: http://www.longecity...oup-buy/page-23

Edited by pleiotropic, 29 December 2014 - 10:45 PM.

[midas]

 

I have gotten some lab results of an analysis of Niagen:  exclusive of fillers and excipients, it is abount 90% NR, and 10% niacinamide, plus a trace, around 0.05% methylnicotinate.

 

This was a surprise, but maybe shouldn't have been given the synthesis procedure.

 

If the bulk powder is only 90% pure with 10% niacinamide - is it still worth taking?   What's the pharmacological effect of high dose niacinamide in terms of longevity and health?  Does it compete with NR and lessen the effectiveness?  If this test result is true - isn't it misleading to sell the product like this?

Shouldn't the bulk powder be tested too?

 

Thread where bulk powder is being advertised: http://www.longecity...oup-buy/page-23

 

 

Out of a daily dose of the HPN Niagen powder (2 x 2.5g scoops = 5g daily) only 250mg is NR. So "IF" 10% of that is niacinamide then you are only getting 25mg of niacinamide per day, and that is a tiny amount of niacinamide compared to 500mg daily tabs or caps that niacinamide is sold in by most vendors..
 

Edited by midas, 29 December 2014 - 11:22 PM.

[Bryan_S]

Its also wrong to refer to it as bulk powder as it is mixed mostly with an organic vegetable inulin to counteract the bitterness. Those of us who put our NR under the tongue can relate, (I really don't mind it so much). Its a very specialized product designed with the sublingual users in mind but meets other considerations. If I wasn't a sublingual user I wouldn't buy it unless I wanted to add it into other nutritional concoctions. Also for those of us who don't want to consume the excipients contained in every single one of the NR venders capsule preparations, this product might be for you.

 

Here is a picture of the new product.

Edited by Bryan_S, 30 December 2014 - 12:47 AM.

[Adaptogen]

has anyone looked into bulk (chinese) nicotinamide riboside more recently? I came across this -
http://www.alibaba.c...857.35.1.yULH6z
also here: http://hhdpharm.en.a..._1341_23_7.html

this same company was also at some point providing nsi-189 (which i believe was tested pure by reddit community). just thought it might be worth looking into