338 replies to this topic

[blueenigma]

I'm newly subscribed to this thread as of yesterday, after discussing this substrate with a forum member on a PRL-8-53 thread I'm subscribed to. I'm not very familiar with Fasoracetam, having given it only a cursory glance some months ago after receiving an email announcing its availability from my nootropics supplier, and then briefly looking into it today, after yesterday's discussion on the PRL forum.

 

From what little information I've gathered over the past few hours, I've come to understand (perhaps erroneously...perhaps wishfully) that Faso is potentially beneficial in improving impaired working memory. I also gather that it might be implicated in resolving/mitigating depressive symptoms but I'm not particularly interested in that aspect since I personally have not struggled with significant depressive issues (although I have experienced a few bouts of anhedonia at different points in my life).

 

What I'm interested in are any potential ameliorative 'working memory' effects this substance might hold since I've noticed a rapid decline in my executive functioning over the past two or three years. Specifically, my organization, short-term memory, and distraction to stimuli got so bad at one point that for a period of time I started leaving notes around the house to keep myself on task, and to prevent against forgetting what to do next. I've experienced incremental improvements over time since starting on nootropics a little over a year ago, but nothing so far has made me feel whole again. Indeed, this may very well be an unrealistic goal-to feel whole again-since what I am experiencing might simply be the very natural and obvious consequence of aging.

 

To veer back on course: Faso's is sounding quite similar, in terms of its purported benefits, to Glyx-13 and I'm wondering if the two substances have similar mechanisms of action. Each of these substances are supposed to facilitate both cognitive enhancement (enhanced learning and memory) and improved depressive symptoms and the near-immediate onset of the depressive lift that I'm reading from user feedback is reminiscent of the fast-acting quality of Glyx-13. Ketamine also comes to mind, however, ketamine is accompanied by dissociative sequela (since it blocks NMDA receptor and thus inhibits synaptic plasticity), so I'm thinking Faso might fall more in line with Glyx-13 than ketamine (although deep_trance's experience might very well be an instance of some degree of dissociation!).

 

Glyx-13 is an NMDA modulator in that it induces long-term potentiation (LTP) and decreases Long-Term Depression (LTD), but it also enhances synaptic plasticity for future LTP; in other words, it increases future synaptic strength. It also acts as a partial agonist at the glycine site of the NMDA receptor vs. ketamine's activity as an antagonist. Through modulation of NMDA receptors in the prefrontal cortex memory and learning are enhanced, presumably through enhanced neuronal communication, but I'm simply surmising at this point. Depression is also (again, presumably) ameliorated by this enhanced neuronal plasticity. I do wonder if Faso is a distant (or close) cousin...

 

 

{By the way, I've not purchased Faso yet, but I'm contemplating ordering tonight (versus some other novel recent releases).}

Edited by blueenigma, 05 February 2015 - 03:30 AM.

[Heisenburger]

{By the way, I've not purchased Faso yet, but I'm contemplating ordering tonight (versus some other novel recent releases).}

 

 

New Star told me that they would have it back in stock within two weeks (this was about ten days ago), and that we could expect the price to be substantially lower than it has been in the past. You may want to hold off rather than purchase it from TLR or Powder City.

[blueenigma]

 

{By the way, I've not purchased Faso yet, but I'm contemplating ordering tonight (versus some other novel recent releases).}

 

 

New Star told me that they would have it back in stock within two weeks (this was about ten days ago), and that we could expect the price to be substantially lower than it has been in the past. You may want to hold off rather than purchase it from TLR or Powder City.

 

Thanks! NewStar was the very first supplier I used when I started using nootropics a little over one year ago. I've since strayed to a couple of other sites, but I must revisit my dear old alma mater soon. 

[Heisenburger]

Yeah, those guys are a class act all around. I pretty much go to them first for everything. When I e-mailed them and told them that I was running low, and asked them when they would have it back in stock, they shipped me one gram on the house out of their reserve. They even managed to get it into an order for PRL-8-53 that they were currently in the process of shipping. When I opened the box, both vials were inside. I worked shipping and receiving for several years—that’s harder to do than it sounds.

[deeptrance]

I have about 950 mg of fasoracetam that I will GLADLY ship for free to anyone who wants it! There's nothing wrong with it other than the fact that I dislike the effect of being hyper-focused and wired.

[Tram]

Deeptrance, I would love to take that fasoracetam off your hands if you don't mind. I'm curious to see how it compares to colu for me (btw I can definitely understand the "I just want information" hunger...40 mg of dexmethylphenidate did that to me, especially when combined w/ piracetam). Also, you said you take stimulants; which ones?

[Mind_Paralysis]

@Deeptrance: I'd love to have some too! = )

@TRAM: Maybe we could split it? 950 mg is presumably a VERY high dose - since some need only as much as 5-10 mg before they notice effects.

 

 

[Tram]

That sounds good to me! Whatever deeptrance decides, I'm cool with. I'm curious to see how it will affect my writing. Right now, coluracetam only makes me want to read about math, but at least the colu doesn't garble my syntax like amphs do -- I don't know how W.H. Auden could take Benzedrine every day and still write clear, musical poems.

[deeptrance]

@Deeptrance: I'd love to have some too! = )

@TRAM: Maybe we could split it? 950 mg is presumably a VERY high dose - since some need only as much as 5-10 mg before they notice effects.

 

 

That sounds good to me! Whatever deeptrance decides, I'm cool with. I'm curious to see how it will affect my writing. Right now, coluracetam only makes me want to read about math, but at least the colu doesn't garble my syntax like amphs do -- I don't know how W.H. Auden could take Benzedrine every day and still write clear, musical poems.

 

PM me your addresses and I'll split it between you. If Blue Enigma wants in then it will get split 3 ways. That's still more than 300 mg each, good for at least 2 weeks to as much as 2 months of experiments.

[blueenigma]

 

@Deeptrance: I'd love to have some too! = )

@TRAM: Maybe we could split it? 950 mg is presumably a VERY high dose - since some need only as much as 5-10 mg before they notice effects.

 

 

That sounds good to me! Whatever deeptrance decides, I'm cool with. I'm curious to see how it will affect my writing. Right now, coluracetam only makes me want to read about math, but at least the colu doesn't garble my syntax like amphs do -- I don't know how W.H. Auden could take Benzedrine every day and still write clear, musical poems.

 

PM me your addresses and I'll split it between you. If Blue Enigma wants in then it will get split 3 ways. That's still more than 300 mg each, good for at least 2 weeks to as much as 2 months of experiments.

 

DEEPTRANCE: I've been meaning to reply to your offer since Day 1, and I'm so so glad that you're willing to cut me in on this!! I woke up today, the snow outside my window looked splendid, I'm making deliciously robust coffee, and now this! I must have done very good deeds in my former life! I'll send you my information now. 

[oblomov]

My experience with fasoracetam has been mostly positive.

 

I have taken it 5 or 6 times, 50mg QD each time, once with other nootropics (NSI-189, idebenone), and the other times without other supplements.

 

It seems to have an anxiolytic effect without being sedating.

 

I did experience some ahedonia and difficulty with ejaculation, so I would guess that it is serotonergic.

 

I'll put this in the category of "useful for specific occasions".

 

[Mind_Paralysis]

Interesting. I just tried approximately 15 mg's Fasoracetam, and the effects are... Bewildering. I do seem to be slightly wired, not unlike methylphenidate, but with less of the physical effects. I also do not feel the same kind of anxiety, even tho' I must admit that I do not feel very calm either.

It seems to be slightly motivating, since I just finished the dishes without any problems, and I seem to be trying to make plans for the future as well, usually a sign of me being stimulated and altered.

One thing tho', what would the rest of you who have tried it, say about the actual physical properties of your Faso? Mine is completely white, somewhat clear, completely without smell, BUT... With one of the most god-awful bitter tastes I have EVER experienced...!

Good grief! This stuff tastes bloody awful...! It has a very slight burning sensation as well, not entirely unlike serotonergics like Sertraline. ( Zoloft)

Will report back with more findings.

 

As I'm writing this I realize that I am even more wired than I first thought..! Since my typing-speed have increased to something akin to two-fold, but spelling-mistakes have increased as well. This might suggest that I slightly, slightly overshot my dosage (not surprising, since I mostly eye-balled it) , as this is similar to my first experiences with Methylphenidate.

[Heisenburger]

One thing tho', what would the rest of you who have tried it, say about the actual physical properties of your Faso? Mine is completely white, somewhat clear, completely without smell, BUT... With one of the most god-awful bitter tastes I have EVER experienced...!

 

 

Interesting; what’s your source? Everybody I’ve talked to has reported the same thing—that theirs is a slightly pink color and smells like a Marks-A-Lot. This has been my experience as well, and I’ve made several purchases, both from NS and ND (before ND went belly-up). Several people posting on reddit have expressed concern over the color, suggesting that it could be indicative of some sort of contaminant.

[Mind_Paralysis]

My source is the same as DeepTrance's, since he shared his batch with me. = ) The source is Powder City, which is obviously a different source.

[YOLF]

It may depend on what salt or acid or whatever it's attached to for stabilization. Take citrulline malate for instance, malates can be one of several things as can phosphonate. Malic acid has a nice citrusy flavor. Others are apparently tasteless,

[Heisenburger]

My source is the same as DeepTrance's, since he shared his batch with me. = ) The source is Powder City, which is obviously a different source.

 

 

Huh. I’m going to get a quarter gram from them and see if I can perceive any difference in effects. New Star has been out for about a month anyway, and I’m running low. I’ll save a little bit of the New Star stuff and post a side-by-side pic.

[Mind_Paralysis]

Heisenburger: Sounds great! = ) I am eagerly awaiting your results... One does wonder - "do I really have the real deal..?" Irregardless of the source, as long as it's not official channels, I myself, do feel a bit of hesitation.

On another note, second day on Faso today, and this time I did NOT perceive the same amount of effect. Not at all as motivated or focused. I'm starting to wonder if maybe I took too low of a dose today? It's certainly hard to vaguer, since I don't have a reliable scale, so the dosing is always a bit off.

 

 

[Tram]

I have the same faso from deeptrance that stinkorninjor has. I haven't really tried it in earnest other than a couple tastes on the tongue as an allergy test. It tastes horrible but is unmistakably racetam. I will update as soon as I have the chance to take it a few times, hopefully without incident.

[NinefingerJoe]

I got mine from PowderCity. Was pure white, but the thing that struck me most was that it was flakey and sticky. Very difficult to scoop into the red micro scoop and kept sticking to the walls of the Baggie. I should note though, that no silicon packet was included like with my other supplements I've gotten from PC.

And yes, it was f*cking disgusting.

As for effects, no real motivation for physical activity, but I read an entire novel in a few hours (God Bless You, Mr. Rosewater by Kurt Vonnegut). I haven't been able to do that since I was a teenager.

What bothers me most about this particular 'racetam are two things:
1) Zero anxiolysis, and by that I mean feeling on edge for around 6 hours after ingestion.
2) Relatively short duration of desired effects. The focus might last for two hours but the edgy feeling lasts for most of the rest of the day.

Personally, I think Pramiracetam would be a better focusing agent without the edginess and with a longer duration (due to it being fat-soluable.)

Overall though , I was disappointed in this substance as I had read a lot about its positive effects on ADD (which I have.)

Now to answer a question with another question: have you tried Coluracetam? It is supposed to be similar to Faso in that they are both High Affinity Acetylcholine Reuptake Enhancers. I haven't tried it, just wondering if anyone would care to compare/contrast the two.

[YOLF]

I got mine from PowderCity. Was pure white, but the thing that struck me most was that it was flakey and sticky. Very difficult to scoop into the red micro scoop and kept sticking to the walls of the Baggie. I should note though, that no silicon packet was included like with my other supplements I've gotten from PC.

And yes, it was f*cking disgusting.

As for effects, no real motivation for physical activity, but I read an entire novel in a few hours (God Bless You, Mr. Rosewater by Kurt Vonnegut). I haven't been able to do that since I was a teenager.

What bothers me most about this particular 'racetam are two things:
1) Zero anxiolysis, and by that I mean feeling on edge for around 6 hours after ingestion.
2) Relatively short duration of desired effects. The focus might last for two hours but the edgy feeling lasts for most of the rest of the day.

Personally, I think Pramiracetam would be a better focusing agent without the edginess and with a longer duration (due to it being fat-soluable.)

Overall though , I was disappointed in this substance as I had read a lot about its positive effects on ADD (which I have.)

Now to answer a question with another question: have you tried Coluracetam? It is supposed to be similar to Faso in that they are both High Affinity Acetylcholine Reuptake Enhancers. I haven't tried it, just wondering if anyone would care to compare/contrast the two.

Perhaps lower, more frequent doses or DIY time release encapsulation? Any idea what the edgy feeling might be caused by?

[NinefingerJoe]

Perhaps lower, more frequent doses or DIY time release encapsulation? Any idea what the edgy feeling might be caused by?

I only dosed 10mg sublingually. Is it possible that it could be compounding my amphetamine? Forgot to mention I was prescribed that in my post. I also forgot to mention that Tianeptine almost, well partially, takes that edge off. Either way, I do prefer Pramiracetam and/or Phenylpiracetam to Fasoracetam.

[Tram]

Curiosity overcame my plan to hold off on the faso until tomorrow. FWIW, here's a report of my first experience. I'm not normally so long-winded, but all of the racetams make me verbose as a high school kid trying to sound intelligent (I can assure you I'm neither of those things). Skip to the bottom for the tl;dr because you'll probably need it.

 

Since I don't yet have a scale or a microscoop, I eyeballed what I figure is ~10 mg and took it sublingually. I have a pretty high tolerance for awful tastes that would probably nauseate more sensitive people, but Jesus Christ, this is awful. If pramiracetam's worse...damn.

 

Within about two minutes I felt a transient flushing sensation, mostly in the form of the feeling of blood rushing to the bridge of my nose. I've never done niacin, but I do remember a high school friend who did one time; his face turned tomato-red and he looked super-uncomfortable. I wondered what I was in for and hoped the vasodilation wouldn't be so extreme. Ultimately, it was just an interesting warmth, like quills sprouting from my face. I felt a pleasant clarity and an odd mix of edginess and reduced anxiety—the same sort of sensation I get on the rare days when I smoke a little sativa. Then, maybe 15 minutes in, I started bouncing my leg and shaking my foot the way I do when I don't take ADHD meds, but without the lack of focus. This quickly gives way to noticeable, but not overwhelming, relaxation.

 

I immediately got to work on an Intro to Mathematical Thinking MOOC I signed up for, to see if I could understand it better than usual. Piracetam and phenylpiracetam really enhance my interest in math in a way that other racetams don't, though this doesn't necessarily mean I actually understand the material any better. So far, the faso hasn't enhanced my curiosity or self-perceived abilities, but it does provide more of the motivation to think and work out the exercises despite repeated failure, which is certainly preferable to mere overconfidence. As with the other racetams, my verbal intuition and syntax are suffering—I find myself stringing clauses full of adverbs and polysyllabics that will probably embarrass me later, but this is how my brain wants to express itself right now, clarity and concision be damned! (This weird garblemouth effect also happens with all stimulants except coffee and cigarettes.)

 

To answer your question, NinefingerJoe, faso is more physically noticeable than coluracetam and more motivating initially. Coluracetam makes me feel sharper, but again, that doesn't mean anything. Vision is slightly enhanced, though not to the extent of colu (if I could afford it, I'd take colu just for the HD effect). The initial burst of energy and motivation yields to a pleasant, albeit kind of drowsy calmness—alpha wave city—and, unlike the adrenaline-pumping intellectual attack-mode induced by stimulants, makes me feel a balanced interest in the world. My left hand is a bit chilly, like it ate some spearmint gum, which is an odd feeling, the kind that would usually catalyze my latent hypochondria, but not at all worrisome. Okay, I better stop writing now before I waste the night, as it's time for the ultimate anti-learned helplessness test: seeing if I can do a load of laundry before bed. I'll report on that later.

 

Tl;dr: Fasoracetam seems to combine (eventually) aniracetam's anxiolysis, some of coluracetam's anti-depressant and HD-vision effect, and a little of phenylpiracetam's motivational effect. Thoughts are more lucid, heart-rate decreases slightly below baseline following a minor initial increase that you could probably attribute to anticipation. There's kind of a compulsion to keep writing ad nauseum, so it could be good a tool for banging out a shitty first draft of something you need to start working on but can't. We'll see.

[Tram]

Though my supply of Fasoracetam only lasted three days, it was a generally positive experience. I decided to order some more, along with some pramiracetam, from Powder City. I received the package yesterday, much sooner than expected.

 

Preface: I really need to get a scale because I have no idea how much I dosed sublingually each day. I did increase the dosage to about a third of the 300 mg bag by day three.

 

What I noticed:

 

• As with all racetams, dramatically increased abstract thought and comprehension of logical and mathematical concepts and patterns, probably due to faso's high-affinity choline uptake properties. I spent a couple hours a day reading and working out the exercises in my Intro to Mathematical Thinking MOOC. Without racetams, I tend to exhibit a more scatterbrained, intuitive personality who thrives on more touchy-feely experiences such as art, poetry, music, standup comedy and improv, pursuits that allegedly require decreased activity in the prefrontal cortex to master.
• Increased a-ha moments while studying; more right answers, more (admittedly self-perceived) cognitive malleability.
• Though I refrained from my usual 30 mg Vyvanse for the duration of the experiment, I experienced no impairments in focus, mood, or motivation (and in fact felt calm but not sedated or foggy). My capacity for, and interest in, lower-order work tasks decreased slightly because I felt this unstoppable urge to consume information and understand concepts that normally befuddle me.
• Improved sociability, which could've been caused by stopping the Vyvanse.
• Less learned helplessness and increased confidence. I was able to read for hours and still do laundry, for crying out loud. Usually, it's one or the other.
• The first couple doses made me extremely tired at first for a few minutes, followed by waves of clarity and calm energy.
• Despite increasing my desire to hunker down and study, it didn't make me antisocial.
• Did not inhibit verbal expression. I did standup on Thursday and killed it. It was incredibly fun, and my onstage-anxiety felt more like excitement to perform than fear of failing. Stimulants and other racetams tend to decrease my performance by inhibiting spontaneity. Not so with faso.

 

The only negative effect is one I've noticed with all racetams: state-dependent memory for logical thought. On the second day after running out of faso, I found myself not only uninterested in the Mathematical Thinking course, but unable to comprehend the accompanying text. It all seemed overwhelming and confusing and not worth the effort. The more I tried to force myself to keep at it, the less I seemed to understand. I just wanted to write jokes and watch comedy all day--which are both interesting and worthy pursuits to me, but the abrupt shift was jarring and created an uncomfortable amount of cognitive dissonance, almost like I felt guilty for spending so much time trying to be what I am not naturally. Has anyone ever felt this? It worries me because nootropics are expensive, time is short, and if I'm just going to forget what I learned whenever I cycle off the stuff, what's the point?

 

Tl;dr: state-dependent increased ability to learn, ponder, and understand abstract concepts and unfamiliar information throughout the day; decreased anxiety; positive introversion without antisocial feelings or impairment in spontaneity; more a-ha moments; subjective progress in fields that I am normally interested in but not naturally good at; a pervasive lucidity of thought and feeling; but am I wasting time trying to be someone I'm not?

 

Thanks again to deeptrance for the hookup. I owe you one.

Edited by Tram, 01 March 2015 - 07:17 PM.

[Galaxyshock]

The only negative effect is one I've noticed with all racetams: state-dependent memory for logical thought. On the second day after running out of faso, I found myself not only uninterested in the Mathematical Thinking course, but unable to comprehend the accompanying text. It all seemed overwhelming and confusing and not worth the effort. The more I tried to force myself to keep at it, the less I seemed to understand. I just wanted to write jokes and watch comedy all day--which are both interesting and worthy pursuits to me, but the abrupt shift was jarring and created an uncomfortable amount of cognitive dissonance, almost like I felt guilty for spending so much time trying to be what I am not naturally. Has anyone ever felt this? It worries me because nootropics are expensive, time is short, and if I'm just going to forget what I learned whenever I cycle off the stuff, what's the point?

 

Tl;dr: state-dependent increased ability to learn, ponder, and understand abstract concepts and unfamiliar information throughout the day; decreased anxiety; positive introversion without antisocial feelings or impairment in spontaneity; more a-ha moments; subjective progress in fields that I am normally interested in but not naturally good at; a pervasive lucidity of thought and feeling; but am I wasting time trying to be someone I'm not?

 

Thanks again to deeptrance for the hookup. I owe you one.

 

You should expect some type of rebound effect the next day pretty much with any substance. You don't forget what you learned under it's influence, the memory imprint is there, but may feel temporary unaccessible and confusing. You could take Fasoracetam as needed and know to expect that and your different abilities coming back a bit stronger the next day.

[Tram]

Thanks, Galaxyshock. That's a great point. I will keep that in mind and not get discouraged.

 

Anyway, I took some more faso yesterday and this morning and am really enjoying the anti-learned-helplessness effect. It also seems to make sleeping easier, and gives vivid, enjoyable dreams, followed by clarity on waking.

[Mind_Paralysis]

Ey Tram, do you have any type of neuropsychiatric disorders? Like ADHD, Dyspraxia/DCD, or dyscalculia? Would be very interested in doing some comparison of our results, if you do have some of these impairments that I have.

 

Personally, I felt that the motivating effect of Faso subsided fairly quickly, even though the other effects seemed to linger somewhat more. I have no idea of the doses tho', as noted, so I will try to purchase a reliable micro-scale in the near future, to give more accurate dosings and results.

Edited by Stinkorninjor, 02 March 2015 - 06:51 PM.

[Tram]

I have ADHD combined subtype, for which I've been variously prescribed Vyvanse, Adderall, Ritalin, and Focalin, with Vyvanse being the most effective and Ritalin the least. (Focalin was good, but too euphoria-inducing and crashy, and Adderall was easy to abuse and tended to rekindle my old OCD problems).

 

I also have cyclothymia well-controlled with Lamictal. In the past, I suffered from anorexia, bulimia, body dysmorphic disorder, OCD, hypochondria, and panic attacks. I just hung on and grew out of those. I still have some anxiety that is mostly related to Vyvanse, since I have none when I don't take it. So far, faso does wipe out stimulant anxiety without reducing focus.

 

That's a good idea about the microscale. I may spring for one.

[Tram]

One week update: the fasoracetam still works well. It gives a lot of mental clarity without hyperfocus, and just makes things seem easier. I wonder about the GABA-B receptor upregulation. I'm typically a pretty anxious person, particularly at work, but lately I've been feeling so chill (not lazy, however) and unfazed by the myriad workplace problems that arise every day. I kinda feel like Peter from Office Space, if he had had a more enjoyable job. It's like the rest of the world is a few steps behind and freaking out about nothing, while I just stroll on.

 

Faso also counteracts the energy-dampening effects of Vyvanse. Normally amphetamines turn me into fat, bookworm, couch-potato slob. The faso allows me to take a smaller dose of Vyvanse without slowing me down.

 

I didn't take it this weekend, opting instead for pramiracetam. Ugh. No fun. That stuff is bizarre: depressing yet energizing. When Powder City gets another faso shipment, I'm gonna have to stock up.

Edited by Tram, 10 March 2015 - 06:53 PM.

[Animal]

When Powder City gets another faso shipment, I'm gonna have to stock up.

Unfortunately Powder City have no intention of restocking fasoracetam. They told me they are removing multiple items from their product range that they consider to be untested in humans. This is due to some issues they have had with people abusing their products

Edited by Animal, 12 March 2015 - 06:56 PM.

[Tram]

Oh darn. Ah well. We'll just have to wait for the results of Dr. Hakonarson's study.