338 replies to this topic

[telight]

Telight, might I ask how much of it you were taking daily?

I'm thinking about getting some from NSN -

but looking at the prices and not having any reliable information regarding standard doses is making me have second guesses...

 

I started at 10mg, but I eventually went all the way up to 50mg. All doses where taken sublingually. Earlier in the thread I posted a study where 100mg orally was given to HUMAN subjects with no ill effects. Studies in rats show no disruptions in hepatic enzymes after repeated doses.

 

I felt great effects at 10mg, I would suggest that you may even want to start lower at 5mg. The reason I went all the way up to 50mg is because I wanted to see how much more of an enhancement this drug can give me.

[telight]

 

I think it's the motivation, man. That increased drive that it gives you, it prevents you from tiring as easily from learning advanced concepts, and it enhances your attention, I bet. Enhanced drive and attention, without the crushing side-effects of stims, is the currently researched use for Fasoracetam.

 

Have you tried another set of cognition-measuring tho? Like www.cambridgebrainsciences.com ., it might be that Faso really has improved your cognition, but in ways that the other test can't measure.

 

 

It doesn't seem to be just motivation. It is known that faso modulates cAMP which is involved in LTP. In fact, the flushing when I experienced when I first tried faso was very similar to the flushing I received when I used the CILTEP stack with forskolin and quercetin. I found that CILTEP is ultimately ineffective for me and provided more side effects than benefits.

 

The biggest reason which leads me to believe that this is not simply due to increased motivation is what happens during my sleep. On my faso on days, especially with high (100mg) oral doses and ones taken close to bed time, I experience a "looping" of the days memories in my head as I sleep. I do not dream as I usually would, but I experience this kind of looping, somewhat similar to what huperzine A does in fact. Then when I wake up, the concepts from the previous day were not just remembered but internalized. 

 

I developed a pattern where I would actually do all my homework for the coming day in the morning before class, since it was easy going with having most of mathematics I was studying in my intuitive grasp.

 

The motivation did help though. I was pursuing subjects that were beyond the course just for fun, which certainly did help 

Edited by telight, 30 June 2014 - 02:06 AM.

[noot_in_the_sky]

I don't know if you got this study, but here it is. Let us know what do you guys think?

 

 Small Molecular Inhibitor Design for NCoR-SIN3A-HDAC Complex.pdf   321.5KB   33 downloads  Fasoracetam_Imagies.zip   117.83KB   12 downloads

[noot_in_the_sky]

Telight, how many times a day did you took faso? Was the side-effect a reduction in your ability to have an orgasm, or in the strengths of them?

[Mind_Paralysis]

Yeah, and at what doses did the problems with orgasms start? Was it from the go, at only 10 mg? Or did it start when you went over 25 mg, or something like that?

Faso -dosing is probably very individual, but if we can avoid the side-effects through correct dosing, then that would be great.

Edited by Stinkorninjor, 02 July 2014 - 12:31 PM.

[Mind_Paralysis]

I don't know if you got this study, but here it is. Let us know what do you guys think?

 

Small Molecular Inhibitor Design for NCoR-SIN3A-HDAC Complex.pdfFasoracetam_Imagies.zip

 

Well... it's just one study, but it does seem to imply, that Fasoracetam might be a useful aid in acute Leukemia -treatment. Which is certainly unexpected, I must say. It's just one study tho', so we'll see if anybody actually tries to utilize the compound as part of some kind of anti-leukemia cocktail.

 

It doesn't really affect the cognitive properties of Faso, or any of those applications, however it does seem to imply that the compound is definitely not carcinogenic, so that's good. Might be preventative even, that it helps your body to more easily put together anti-leukemia proteins.

[chris106]

Another question regarding the orgasm side-effect, Telight; (man, all the guys are getting worried :D)

you mentioned this as a long term side-effect. Long term as in it appeared only after continuous use of fasoracetam, OR long term as in it persisted even after you stopped taking Faso?
Permanent sexual side effects would be rather scary, I guess.

Still, given my budget will allow it, I will order Faso from NSN this month. If it will also arrive this month then depends on whether I can afford another 50E for 2days- parcel forwarding  or rather 30E for 10-25days parcel forwarding from UK...

Man, f**** german import laws and customs, seriously. -_-'

Edited by chris106, 03 July 2014 - 09:15 AM.

[mait]

I have now been using Fasoracetam at dosages of 10-15 mg/day for a week. The internalization effect is definitely apparent for me in similar way as described previously by user telight. "Internalization effect" has been apparent for me both when dealing rational academic related work but also, when dealing with emotionally loaded situation. I got an argument with one of my friends at the beginning of the week that had quite a negative effect on me. The following night I experienced something that I have never before experienced: I continually and vividly re-lived the situation in my dreams while sleeping. This replay of negative situation in dreams wasn't paranoid or negative just vividly going it over and over again. The best part waited me in the morning: I woke up clear headed and all the anger and negative sympathetic arousal related to this situation was gone. This is the experience I have never had before when dealing with nootropic drugs.

 

No bad side effect to report from my trial except the sleepiness I get from dosing Fasoracetam, which has been the reason I dose it on afternoon or evenings. 

Edited by mait, 03 July 2014 - 11:33 AM.

[Mind_Paralysis]

Hold up - are you saying you actually get SLEEPY from Fasoracetam..? That's interesting... most of the other reports seem to indicate an almost overwhelming sense of energy instead - like something in-between amphetamine and modafinil.

 

It kind of makes sense tho' - since intuniv, an alpha-2 agonist ( guanfacine), that also lowers cAMP-levels ( faso seems to both lower and increase cAMP, it modulates. ), induces sleepiness in many individuals as well, but in a few, it apparently INCREASES energy instead, and they then take it at morning, instead of at night, which is otherwise the standard dosing-time of Intuniv.

 

So, you actually get SLEEPY, TIRED, and a bit foggy when the Faso sets in? That's interesting... anybody else notice sleepiness instead of instant wakefulness with Faso?

Also - what would be the most likely cause of this - either sleepiness at first, or instant energy? ( I naturally assume that even for those that become sleepy with faso, after a good nights sleep, the effects of wakefulness and energy then set in.)

Edited by Stinkorninjor, 03 July 2014 - 12:06 PM.

[mait]

Hold up - are you saying you actually get SLEEPY from Fasoracetam..? That's interesting... most of the other reports seem to indicate an almost overwhelming sense of energy instead - like something in-between amphetamine and modafinil.

 

It kind of makes sense tho' - since intuniv, an alpha-2 agonist ( guanfacine), that also lowers cAMP-levels ( faso seems to both lower and increase cAMP, it modulates. ), induces sleepiness in many individuals as well, but in a few, it apparently INCREASES energy instead, and they then take it at morning, instead of at night, which is otherwise the standard dosing-time of Intuniv.

 

So, you actually get SLEEPY, TIRED, and a bit foggy when the Faso sets in? That's interesting... anybody else notice sleepiness instead of instant wakefulness with Faso?

Also - what would be the most likely cause of this - either sleepiness at first, or instant energy? ( I naturally assume that even for those that become sleepy with faso, after a good nights sleep, the effects of wakefulness and energy then set in.)

 

It is slight sleepiness not tiredness or anything. I would call it more of sleep ready state, it has similar slight sleepiness inducing effect for me as aniracetam and nefiracetam do. This is the reason I prefer to take fasoracetam in afternoon or evening - still I have dosed it 2 times around 18:00 and have worked on programming assignments after taking it. Sleepiness is there but so is nice concentration. Maybe the effect has something to do with my mourning combo of PRL-8-53 and Coluracetam.

[Mind_Paralysis]

For how long do the effects of Faso, on concentration and motivation, linger, after dosing it in the evening? Do you still have any positive effects when you wake up? I.e, how long would you say the duration of effect is?

Other compounds that effect cAMP either directly or indirectly, appear to have very high DoE - like 24 hours+!

 

So, how long is the duration of effect? 8 hours? 12 hours? Or... ( gasp! God-damnit I hope so!) 24 HOURS?

[telight]

Yeah, and at what doses did the problems with orgasms start? Was it from the go, at only 10 mg? Or did it start when you went over 25 mg, or something like that?

Faso -dosing is probably very individual, but if we can avoid the side-effects through correct dosing, then that would be great.

 

I am not sure at which doses the negative effects on orgasms began since during my faso trial I didn't have any orgasms. I was more interested in the academic work I was doing and completely didn't realize that I wasn't masturbating at all during the 3 weeks and when I did I noticed the strange feeling of ejaculating but not really experiencing an orgasm. Looking back I would say that it also decreased my sex drive, but this is actually a bonus for me since it allows me more time and better focus on much more important work.

 

Overall, I have to say I was much happier on faso than in my baseline state despite not being able to and not wanting to experience orgasm.

 

The effect does persist after cessation of faso. In fact, as I have said before, there are long term effects to this drug positive and negative (reduction in orgasm).

 

After having a week off from the drug I noticed that my orgasm began to come back and I was able to feel something when ejaculating.  Since a strong sex drive is just a distraction for me, I began using faso again. I'll be sure to ejaculate for science in the coming days to see if faso completely removed the feeling of orgasm again.

Edited by telight, 03 July 2014 - 05:36 PM.

[telight]

 

No bad side effect to report from my trial except the sleepiness I get from dosing Fasoracetam, which has been the reason I dose it on afternoon or evenings. 

 

If you read some of my first experiences you will notice that I too experienced brain fog about 15 minutes after my first couple doses. The fog went away after repeated doses. You should dose in the daytime one of these days and see if the tiredness/fog has diminished or went away.

 

For how long do the effects of Faso, on concentration and motivation, linger, after dosing it in the evening? Do you still have any positive effects when you wake up? I.e, how long would you say the duration of effect is?

Other compounds that effect cAMP either directly or indirectly, appear to have very high DoE - like 24 hours+!

 

So, how long is the duration of effect? 8 hours? 12 hours? Or... ( gasp! God-damnit I hope so!) 24 HOURS?

 

This compound appears to have long term effects that are dose dependent. It's very hard to say when the effect of this drug ends, but repeated consumption seems to result in some kind of semi-permanent effect on the brain which was still apparent for me even a week from abstaining from the drug. This feeling is hard to describe, its like a kind of "urgency" in my head. I am just thinking more about everything nowadays after faso.

 

I will also mention that my caffeine sensitivity has greatly increased to where consuming about 100mg puts me in a very uncomfortable mental state where I am anxious and my thoughts are racey. As a result I have curbed my caffeine consumption form about 3-4 cups of black tea (60mg a cup) to about 1 cup a day and some days I don't need any caffeine at all.

[noot_in_the_sky]

After having a week off from the drug I noticed that my orgasm began to come back and I was able to feel something when ejaculating.  Since a strong sex drive is just a distraction for me, I began using faso again. I'll be sure to ejaculate for science in the coming days to see if faso completely removed the feeling of orgasm again.

 

 

Pun intended???

 

So base on telight and mait expirences,

 

1.  The internalization effect takes place best if the dose is taken later in the day. If this is the case then it becomes cheaper, since we only have to take a single dose later in the day.

 

2.  It would probably be a very bad idea to combine or even take on the same day Fasoracetam with a strong stimulane: amphetamine, modafinil, adrafinil, and sunifiram.

 

3.  The sexual side effect is on the ability of a person to feel pleasure from an orgasm, and not necessary on your ability to have one.

 

Is this right?

[telight]

 

After having a week off from the drug I noticed that my orgasm began to come back and I was able to feel something when ejaculating.  Since a strong sex drive is just a distraction for me, I began using faso again. I'll be sure to ejaculate for science in the coming days to see if faso completely removed the feeling of orgasm again.

 

 

Pun intended???

 

So base on telight and mait expirences,

 

1.  The internalization effect takes place best if the dose is taken later in the day. If this is the case then it becomes cheaper, since we only have to take a single dose later in the day.

 

2.  It would probably be a very bad idea to combine or even take on the same day Fasoracetam with a strong stimulane: amphetamine, modafinil, adrafinil, and sunifiram.

 

3.  The sexual side effect is on the ability of a person to feel pleasure from an orgasm, and not necessary on your ability to have one.

 

Is this right?

 

 

1. I am not sure if faso is needed to be taken before you experience the events that your want to learn/record/remember or if it can be simply taken before sleeping after the events have already happened. Good question. I will try to find an answer for you. By the way, I always feel like 1 dose taken later in the morning around 11am seems to be enough for the whole day and I don't need to redose.

 

2. Faso definitely feels glutamatergic I would strongly recommend caution with strong stimulants especially sunifiram.

 

3. I can still ejaculate and I feel faster/stronger heart beat and the pleasant flushing feeling but I do not feel the pleasurable feeling in my head. My headspace doesn't change after ejaculation when orgasm is supposably happening. I guess I can still experience orgasms it just that their pleasure is significantly diminished. 

 

I did ejaculate for science and noticed the same thing that I have noticed before; no euphoria when orgasm happens. 

[xsiv1]

telight

I did ejaculate for science and noticed the same thing that I have noticed before; no euphoria when orgasm happens. 

 

If this effect is something reproduced by others using this compound, I'd seriously reconsider recommencement. The novelty of this item and it's use is something that I'd seen with Sunifiram. I still have 5 or more grams of it unopened because it was, at the time, an impulse buy. Once reports surfaced over certain adverse effects (especially when combined with any stimulant - as Telight warned with Faso this week), I've not even opened the Sunifiram. Mostly because I enjoy coffee too much heh,  but also because some reports were about significantly protracted adverse symptoms even upon complete discontinuation of the . Having said that, and understanding people are going to do what they want - if the euphoria of an orgasm (of all things) is not merely a one-off and others find similar effect, I myself would dump it and move on unless, of course, the benefits far exceeded the lack of "euphoria" to something so pleasurable as a complete orgasm. At the very least, I'd make use of the compound sporadically.

 

I've had beneficial effects from Noopept, but I did notice decreased libido and finished any cycle after 2-3 months. I haven't used it much as of late, although, in the last couple years I've been through several cycles of it. Just my opinion here and it's biased by my conversations with a guy (who had a post over at another "Mind"-type forum) who developed the complete inability to experience pleasure. He could still experience the "anticipation of pleasure" but things such as an orgasm resulted in, well, nothing. Dopaminergics that would normally elicit euphoric experiences also fell by the wayside. Such a sad story as he had a twin who developed this (seemingly inherited) condition around the same time in life. I think that has jaded me to fear compounds that disrupt something (such as pleasure) so primitively intertwined with our modern-day genealogy. In all  likelihood, it more of an individual response at this point. 

 

I look forward to hearing "any" additional reports on Fasoracetam since it's been a relatively quiet "experience" thread. Sorry for the interruption.  

[MangekyōPeter]

I've been trialing Fasoracetam for a few weeks, taking it once or twice a week.

 

Have tried 10mg/25mg/50mg dosages sublingually.

 

To start things off I can definitely attest to the fact that Faso reduces the intensity of an orgasm dramatically.

 

But it also has it's upsides like increased motivation and a clearer, more focused mind.

 

Although I did experience brain fog and some irritability when I took 50mg, but 25mg and 10mg have been pretty good for me so far.

 

 

[jerey34]

yeah had the same experience on orgasm.  about ready to quit

[Mind_Paralysis]

Well... that actually sounds unacceptable to me. Seriously, the sex between me and the girl I've been seeing, is pretty great. And to take something that takes that away... would be catastrophic to me.

No doubt, some of you seems to feel the same, so IMHO, this limits the usefulness of Fasoracetam, to a certain degree.

 

The use is definitely there tho' - a combined stimulant/anti-depressant/cognitive enhancer, is pretty friggin' god-damn whopin' AWESOME!! 0_o

Ya' just gotta' know when to take it, and when to not take it. If you have tests and the like, coming up, and you have cognitive impairments, like me, then it's time to dig out the Faso, and get the job done. But then you need to cut down, and only use it now and then, when necessary.

Sex is an important part of well-being and social interaction, and if you're having a good sex-life, then for gods sake, don't throw that away.

On a related note - what do you guys figure is CAUSING this effect...? Faso has a pretty complex mode of action - binding to several metabotropic glutamate receptors, some which inhibit others. Can we figure out what part of Faso that causes the problems with orgasms? Perhaps it can be counteracted in some way - a bit like how the cardio and cathecolamine imbalance side-effects of stims can be counteracted, to a certain degree.

 

 

[chris106]

No doubt, some of you seems to feel the same, so IMHO, this limits the usefulness of Fasoracetam, to a certain degree.

 

Well, it does...unless... >_<'

I have quite the severe case of PE.
I tried to counter this problem in the past (sometimes quite succesfully) with TCAs, Phenibut or Tramadol.
All of those of course have a high addiction-potential and can only be taken every so often. Plus, none of those should ever be taken with alcohol, limiting their use in social situations.

My question now being - to those who have experienced theses sexual side-effects from Faso - do you guys feel like there's an actual decrease in arousal as well? Did you last longer and/or feel less during the act? Or was solely the orgasm itself less intense?

If it actually makes one feel less aroused/stressed like the serotonergics/Gabaergics mentioned above, it could actually be quite beneficial in that regard for someone suffering from PE like me...

 

Of course it would still suck for everyone else, though -_-

Edited by chris106, 06 July 2014 - 12:22 PM.

[MangekyōPeter]

In my case I would say that I was just as aroused as usual, only the orgasm itself didn't produce nearly as big of an euphoric rush as usual.

 

 

Well, it does...unless... >_<'

I have quite the severe case of PE.
I tried to counter this problem in the past (sometimes quite succesfully) with TCAs, Phenibut or Tramadol.
All of those of course have a high addiction-potential and can only be taken every so often. Plus, none of those should ever be taken with alcohol, limiting their use in social situations.

My question now being - to those who have experienced theses sexual side-effects from Faso - do you guys feel like there's an actual decrease in arousal as well? Did you last longer and/or feel less during the act? Or was solely the orgasm itself less intense?

If it actually makes one feel less aroused/stressed like the serotonergics/Gabaergics mentioned above, it could actually be quite beneficial in that regard for someone suffering from PE like me...

 

Of course it would still suck for everyone else, though -_-

 

 

 

[Galaxyshock]

Do any of you find it removing/decreasing reward from other things too? music, alcohol, sports, social interaction etc.

 

It's quite interesting mGlu-GABAb-interaction may be a key part in reward processing.

[mait]

 

After having a week off from the drug I noticed that my orgasm began to come back and I was able to feel something when ejaculating.  Since a strong sex drive is just a distraction for me, I began using faso again. I'll be sure to ejaculate for science in the coming days to see if faso completely removed the feeling of orgasm again.

 

 

Pun intended???

 

So base on telight and mait expirences,

 

1.  The internalization effect takes place best if the dose is taken later in the day. If this is the case then it becomes cheaper, since we only have to take a single dose later in the day.

 

2.  It would probably be a very bad idea to combine or even take on the same day Fasoracetam with a strong stimulane: amphetamine, modafinil, adrafinil, and sunifiram.

 

3.  The sexual side effect is on the ability of a person to feel pleasure from an orgasm, and not necessary on your ability to have one.

 

Is this right?

 

 

1. I take my faso dose before bed and the effect of "internalization" seem to be there next day. I have morning combo of coluracetam and prl-8-53 in place from which I have gained great long term benefits in terms of workday productivity, sadly fasoracetam just does not mix well with this combo. Maybe because of both fasoracetam and coluracetam being high-affinity choline uptake enhancers.

 

2. Fasoracetam + 3-4 cups of coffee is bad combination for me: it makes me irritable and really rally angry.

 

3. I have experienced none of thos side effects untill now.

 

 

Subjectivelly fasoracetam's effect to me has something similar in it to pramiracetam: the coffee induced irritability and something subtle I cant point my finger at the moment. 

Edited by mait, 06 July 2014 - 03:35 PM.

[noot_in_the_sky]

If it is just the feel of euphoria that is diminish, personally, it doesn't seem like much of a problem.  

 

 

Mait, it may be the PRL 8-53 which is not compatible with Faso.  I say this because went I try PRL 8-53 with Sunifiram and Pramiracetam, and it didn't combine well.  So if Faso has similar effects or interactions as Sunifiram/Pramiracetam, then it seems possible that it doesn't combine well with PRL 8-53.

[telight]

I have a major update for you guys.

 

I decided to have some blood work done. The tests that I did are CBC (Complete Blood Count), Renal Function Panel, Hepatic Function panel, various measures of immune function (IgA, IgE, IgM). All test were done from LabCorp. You can go the LabCorp site and search for these test panels and you can find the specifics of what these tests are actually testing. 

 

I have been taking fasoracetam for about a month and then took a week break. After this break I resumed fasoracetam again for 1 week of continuous dosing of 25mg sublingually. Then I took a 48 hour break before my blood was sampled for the tests above.

 

I am happy to report there appears to be no toxicity to my liver and kidneys, in fact I appear to be very healthy except for one measure.

 

This measure is my serum iron, which is 224ug/dl, the upper bound of the reference range written on my test print out is 165ug/dl.

 

It is unlikely that fasoracetam was responsible for this rise in serum iron, and it was almost certainly due to the fact that I supplemented with iron (100% DV once per day, chelated form) for two weeks. I did not think this could cause such a significant increase in my blood iron levels but apparently it did. This would also explain why I had hyperpigmentation of the skin, more commonly known as skin bronzing, which happened to coincide during the time I was taking fasoracetam. I had initially attributed it to Ceretropic's "Super Rhodiola", and then attributed it to the combination of fasoracetam and "Super Rhodiola". Turns out I was completely wrong and it clear now that the iron was responsible. This situation highlighted the importance of actual measured data and not feelings correlated with the consumption of some substance.

 

In summary it appears that while fasoracetam has some notable side effects (especially on the orgasm), it seems to be physiologically safe for dosing for at least one month at around 20mg sublingually for me, and a 22 year old male. 

[medievil]

Is the build up to an orgasm still as pleasurable? I allways use stims wich make sex last for ages and barely ever orgasm, just the build up feeling for hours keeps me satisfied.

[xsiv1]

Why in the world would you, as a male, supplement iron? I'm just curious. Are you anemic or do have some pre-existing condition that warrants it's use? You know that iron (if found in excess) is stored in organs. I believe it's one of the top reasons for childhood accidental overdose mortality. My wife takes low dose (20 mg) iron each day and we keep it on the top shelf away from anyone. If you're taking a multi vitamin/mineral and have sound nutrition, the addition of iron supplements can really mess you up since it's very hard to clear once found in the organs. Do you also take antioxidants or other supplement like NAC

Edited by xsiv1, 16 July 2014 - 12:04 PM.

[MangekyōPeter]

In my case - Yes, just the climax itself is like "meh".. :D

Is the build up to an orgasm still as pleasurable? I allways use stims wich make sex last for ages and barely ever orgasm, just the build up feeling for hours keeps me satisfied.

 

[medievil]

Maybe I have some disorder but the climax was allways meh for me nothing spectacular just suddenly the end of all sexgoodness.

[telight]

Why in the world would you, as a male, supplement iron? I'm just curious. Are you anemic or do have some pre-existing condition that warrants it's use? You know that iron (if found in excess) is stored in organs. I believe it's one of the top reasons for childhood accidental overdose mortality. My wife takes low dose (20 mg) iron each day and we keep it on the top shelf away from anyone. If you're taking a multi vitamin/mineral and have sound nutrition, the addition of iron supplements can really mess you up since it's very hard to clear once found in the organs. Do you also take antioxidants or other supplement like NAC

 

Yup, I agree with you. Especially considering the fact that everything here in the the USA is fortified with iron. I thought my dose was relatively low (18mg) and I only dosed 14 times that my iron levels would not become too high and if they did the raise would be negligible and I could stop waiting for my iron to drop back down to normal levels. The risk was slightly elevated iron levels and benefit would be clearly up any suspected iron deficiency that I may have had. This is why I took it.

 

You may ask why not get a blood test first. Well, as you may known the American healthcare system is a total shitstorm. It would have been a huge hassle and not to mention very expensive. That is, you can't just go in and ask for a blood test and expect to get one at a reasonable price or even get one at all.