25 replies to this topic

[hani]

So apparently, Doctor's Best stopped selling lithium orotate, and it's out of stock on iherb and vitacost. Does anyone know why? And any alternative sources for Europe?

[blood]

I emailed Drs Best for more info. Will post here when I hear from them.

In the meantime, you could switch to the Drs Best lithium aspartate product:
http://www.iherb.com...ggie-Caps/22777


I don't think it matters a great deal what the delivery form is (orotate, aspartate, carbonate, etc). However if you must have lithium orotate (for whatever reason) then Swansons is still making it:

http://www.swansonvi...te-5-mg-60-caps

See also:
http://www.swansonvi...rotate-200-tabs

[blood]

Here is the email response I received from Drs Best:

Hello blood,

Thank you for your support of Doctor's Best products and inquiring about our Lithium line. Doctor's Best has made the decision to discontinue Lithium products due to issues relating to FDA guidelines regarding Lithium as a dietary supplement. We have no issues regarding the safety or efficacy of the product we manufactured, but we are respectful of the attitudes presented by the FDA regarding this product as a nutritional supplement.

Thank you for contacting Doctor’s Best. We appreciate your continued support.

Best Regards,
Customer Care

[mustardseed41]

Time for me to stock up. %$#(&^

[blood]

I know, annoying, huh? Has the FDA been complaining recently about micro-dose lithium products?

[mustardseed41]

I really hope they don't take it off the market. It's been a game changer in my life. What next, sodium and potassium being banned? All those evil minerals. A quick Google search comes up empty about any news.

Edited by mustardseed41, 01 April 2014 - 03:55 AM.

[normalizing]

wow FDA has nothing to do it seems, it just starts banning natural substances. how about concentrate on tons of fake deadly supplement and food products that are out there instead of picking of the little guys who need life saving natural substances, not even drugs!

[timar]

A good, natural alternative is to drink a lithium-rich mineral water. There are two brands widely available in Germany providing high levels of lithium ions: Staatlich Fachinger (0.77 mg/l) and Heppinger (0.84 mg/l). I prefer Heppinger because it also has 200 mg/l of magnesium.

I don't know about the lithium levels in waters from other countries, though.

Edited by timar, 01 April 2014 - 03:34 PM.

[mustardseed41]

I could alway's go and bathe in Lithia Springs. It's in my state. *Major eye roll*

http://en.wikipedia....prings,_Georgia

[timar]

They either don't contain much lithium or transdermal absorption is very low. Otherwise the FDA would have surely warned against bathing there

[normalizing]

A good, natural alternative is to drink a lithium-rich mineral water. There are two brands widely available in Germany providing high levels of lithium ions: Staatlich Fachinger (0.77 mg/l) and Heppinger (0.84 mg/l). I prefer Heppinger because it also has 200 mg/l of magnesium.

I don't know about the lithium levels in waters from other countries, though.

you noticed anything drinking them? surely FDA wont allow even water having lithium being sold now. but they dont care to investigate energy drinks and sodas containing weird stuff in them.

[APBT]

Here's a source for lithium orotate, I've used successfully. Currently a BOGO sale through 7 April. Use savings code VBOCAA49 at checkout.
http://www.vrp.com/l...rotate-120-caps

[niner]

Something here doesn't make sense. The FDA has issues with low dose lithium orotate, but not aspartate? That suggests that their real problem is with the orotate counterion (which does have health risks in large amounts), not with lithium. High dose prescription lithium is carbonate or sometimes citrate, and lithium in mineral waters is whatever the anion milieu may happen to be, probably mostly sulfate and carbonate.

Hmm. I just searched fda.gov for "orotate" and didn't find any indication that they were on the warpath over it. Is this just Drs Best being paranoid?

[blood]

I got the impression the lithium aspartate product will also be discontinued by Drs Best.

I think it could be Drs Best being paranoid. There are two articles on lithium orotate "overdoses" in the medical literature. The victims experienced fairly mild signs of lithium overdose after swallowing 'large' amounts of tablets containing low-dose lithium orotate. One of the articles call for lithium orotate to be removed from sale. Maybe Drs Best got around to reading these articles, and is now worried about being sued by people who experience accidental "overdoses"?

Unexpectedly, the Drs Best lithium orotate product is available again on iherb. (The other day it was listed as a "discontinued product".) Maybe iherb just got hold of some of the last stock?

http://www.iherb.com...0-Tablets/22628

[tintinet]

Lots of options at Amazon for various forms of lithium, including orotate and aspartate.

[jfrancisco]

It is gone again on iherb.

[adamh]

I just picked up over 2 years supply from swanson. I think it was about 4 cents a cap.

[Mr.No]

I got the impression the lithium aspartate product will also be discontinued by Drs Best.

I think it could be Drs Best being paranoid. There are two articles on lithium orotate "overdoses" in the medical literature. The victims experienced fairly mild signs of lithium overdose after swallowing 'large' amounts of tablets containing low-dose lithium orotate. One of the articles call for lithium orotate to be removed from sale. Maybe Drs Best got around to reading these articles, and is now worried about being sued by people who experience accidental "overdoses"?

Unexpectedly, the Drs Best lithium orotate product is available again on iherb. (The other day it was listed as a "discontinued product".) Maybe iherb just got hold of some of the last stock?

http://www.iherb.com...0-Tablets/22628

 

http://www.ncbi.nlm....ov/pubmed/26768

 

http://www.ncbi.nlm....pubmed/18072162

[Godof Smallthings]

The problem with lithium orotate is the lack of relevant studies - anecdotal evidence suggests it is safe. I don't know how much Doctor's Best has sold of it, and what their feedback has been. Maybe they are just being cautious for legal reasons, or they are pulling it off the market because there have been a few incidents more than the one that is described in PubMed?

 

Hans Nieper's claims or John Gray's claims about lithium orotate being more available to the brain are not supported by clinical trial evidence.

 

On the flipside, the study that is quoted as the main reason for abandoning lithium orotate seems questionable:

 

http://www.ncbi.nlm....ov/pubmed/26768 describes injection of lithium orotate in rats. How relevant is that to humans taking very low oral doses?

 

http://www.ncbi.nlm....pubmed/18072162 describes an incident of a girl taking 18 tablets of lithium orotate, equivalent to 68.94 mg elemental lithium. She complained of nausea and reported one episode of emesis (vomiting). Her examination revealed normal vital signs. The only finding was a mild tremor without rigidity. Almost 90 minutes after the ingestion, her serum lithium level was 0.31 mEq/L, a urine drug screen was negative, and an electrocardiogram (ECG) showed a normal sinus rhythm. The patient received intravenous fluids and an anti-emetic; one hour later, her repeat serum lithium level was 0.40 mEq/L. After 3 hours of observation, nausea and tremor were resolved, and she was subsequently transferred to a psychiatric hospital for further care. Prior human and animal data have shown similar pharmacokinetics and shared clinical effects of these lithium salts.

 

As far as I know, nobody suggests taking 18 pills of lithium orotate at once. 1 tab a day as I believe is the recommendation on Doctor's Best bottles is equivalent to just 5 mg of elemental lithium.

 

Her symptoms all seem fairly mild and passed quickly as far as I can see. The salient question is whether her reported serum lithium levels are cause for clinical concern or not. That I don't know. If they are not cause for concern then the report possibly seems overblown. Edit: Wikipedia says that lithium toxicity is usually 1.5 mmol/L - if mEq is the same as mmol (anyone know?) then 0.31 at 90 min post administration and 0.40 mEq/L at 150 minutes post administration seem pretty far away from what is usually considered toxicity.

Edited by Godof Smallthings, 05 May 2014 - 05:45 AM.

[Mr.No]

And this one is important  http://ajp.psychiatryonline.org/article.aspx?articleID=1866346  

                                          http://www.ncbi.nlm....ov/pubmed/26768

                                          http://www.ncbi.nlm....pubmed/18072162

Edited by Slobodan Fuletic, 06 May 2014 - 06:23 PM.

[Lufega]

I have a new but opened bottle im never going to use. Msg me if interested.

[genereader]

I googled "lithium orotate" and "discontinued"... found this explanation:

http://www.quicktopic.com/23/H/MpcfQa4fZZe 

Here's the relevant bit from post 748:

 

"...Doctor’s Best came to the conclusion to discontinue its Lithium products following a discussion with Dan Fabricant, formerly FDA. Lithium in several forms has been used since the 1950’s to treat depression, bi-polar disorders and other mental health issues. The FDA approved Lithium Carbonate in the 1970’s for the treatment of depression and it is still used today by many Psychiatrists to augment current anti-anxiety medications. The discussion led us through a scenario whereby a mentally disturbed individual who has been medically prescribed Lithium (Carbonate) as a pharmaceutical, decides to replace his/her prescription with Lithium (Orotate, Aspartate) the supplement, relying only on the similarity of the names. While Lithium Orotate is only fractionally as potent as the pharmaceutical Lithium Carbonate, a mentally challenged or disturbed individual might not recognize the difference as the same name, Lithium, covers both. If that already mentally disturbed individual causes severe harm or injury to himself or another, and that action is theorized as in part, or in whole, a result of the replacement of the prescription; considerable financial and brand liability could be incurred by the company based upon a single incident.

We apologize for this inconvenience and thank you for your understanding. We hope to receive your continued support of Doctor’s Best."

[genereader]

So maybe they need to relabel the LO bottlles as "Orotate of the Element with Atomic Number Three".  Problem solved.

 

[shp5]

This is absurd. I don't know what to say.

 

 

Please post any source for lithium ororate if you have one.

 

 

 

 

 

edit: In Europe you could get this mineral water, with 3.3mg/l of lithium. still, I'll miss the effect 5mg of lithiium ororate on my sleep...

 

http://www.donatmg.eu/en/properties

Edited by shp5, 26 May 2014 - 07:44 PM.

[D424friday]

eBay is a good source

[blood]

Relentless Improvement, a current Longecity forum sponsor, has introduced a lithium orotate product.

 

It is reasonably priced (200 caps for 14 bucks, 5 mg lithium per cap).

 

Relentless Improvement do "finished product testing", i.e., you can be confident the product does contain what is on the label.

 

Link: http://supplements.r...blets-p288.aspx