2266 replies to this topic

[BobSeitz]

It's time for my Thursday update.

Once again, I've taken 15 Niagen capsules so far today, with another 5 reserved for bedtime. (I didn't mention the fact that I take two 100-mg. capsules of the new Xymogen bioabsorbable s-acetyl glutathione capsules every day along with a transdermal glutathione cream, and 8-hour, sustained release n-acetyl cysteine capsule at bedtime.)

Once again, I headed for the Wellness Center this morning. But it has occurred to me that I've probably added a few pounds over the past two months. I've been concerned about getting enough protein to support the rebuilding of muscles, but that mindset may have invited extra calories. (I don't weigh myself very often, since I'm not normally focused on losing weight.) Chinning myself is a sensitive function of how heavy I am. A couple of pounds can make a sizable difference. And since we're trying to determine whether Niagen is making meaningful differences, my weight needs to be tightly controlled. I'll check my weight when I wake up tomorrow morning, and try to lean toward a weight-loss mode over the next few weeks.

At the Wellness Center this morning, I tried for the first time elevating the treadmill. I found that at a slope of 10°, I was generating 7.4 METs at 3 miles an hour, and 8 METs at 3.3 miles an hour. I ran about ½ mile at 3 mph. (7,4 METs) and about ½ mile at 3 mph (8 METs). My pulse rate gradually climbed from the 90's to the low 120's. I ran another mile, and then began running 60-second sprints at 9,5 METs, resting about two minutes between sprints... except that today, I raised the bar a bit by running 120-second sprints. My highest pulse rate was 130, which is below my maximum pulse rate by any standards. (I've been reticent about pushing myself harder without anyone watching my EKG.) I was breathing hard enough to make it hard to carry on a conversation by the time I finished.

Last night, I began investigating to find out what the norms are for someone my age. Here they are:
Heart Rate:
    I found two formulas for this. The classical formula is 220 - (your age). For me, at 85, that works out to be 135 beats per minute.
    Another formula that purports to update the above formula uses 208- 0.7(your age). This formula yields 148.5 beats per minute.
Maximum Level of Exertion (METs Level):
For someone who's athletically conditioned, the maximum treadmill METs level is given by 18.7- 0.15 X your age. For me at 85, that works out to be 5.95 METs. Of course, I ran today for 6 minutes at 8 METs without reaching my maximum heart rate.

If I use 8 METs as my maximum level of exertion, subtract 5.95 METs from it, and divide by 0.15 to arrive at an age-equivalent METs level, I arrive at 2.05/0.15 = 13⅔ years. Subtracting this from 85 produces an equivalent "physiological age" of 71⅓ years.

Of course, I ran two minutes at 9.5 METs without reaching my maximum heart rate. If I used 9 METs (conservatively( as my peak treadmill level of exertion, I would arrive at an offset of 3.05.0.15 = 20⅓ years. Subtracting this from 85 gives a physiological age of 64⅔ years.

Of course, this doesn't quite give the picture. Our 7½-year-old darling and I run races and play tag and Frisbee and hide-and-go-seek (including running for home base). Our 40-year-old daughter, Lisa, died in her sleep in December, 2006, and left her three-month-old baby, Amber, for my wife and I to rear, so we've been back on the "Daddy and Mommy" track.

After running on the treadmill, I went to the "Chin-Lift" and tried chinning myself. I was just barely able to pull myself up with 4 pounds of lift. At 10 pounds of lift, I handily chinned myself 12 times. quitting before I quite reached my limit.

My athletic fitness testing in January when I first approached the Wellness Center put me in the 95th percentile for VO₂ max at about 30 (Mkm). I inquired about the age group to which that percentile ranking applied, but the personal trainer who administered the January fitness exam. didn't know. On the Partial Curl-Up (Rep) ranking, I was in the 99th percentile in January. I was also in the 99th percentile on the waist-to-hip ratio. I was in the 89th percentile for body fat composition. On other measures testing flexibility, etc., I didn't fare as well.

Presumably, my workouts at the Wellness Center will improve some of these benchmarks over time.

The verdict for Niagen? It depends upon how long it takes Niagen to do its thing in humans, and it depends upon how much weight (if any) I may have added since the last time I weighed myself. There hasn't been any "Wow!" boost in my performance over the past 48 hours.









 

[midas]

Bob, for your age it sounds to me that you are already as fit as a flea

 

I wouldn't be to disappointed if you don't see to much in the way of gains, because I am pretty sure you are already there....Good for you, your 32 (and 1/4 ) years older than me and it tires me out just thinking about what you get up too.

 

I think maybe people that are less fit and less healthy are more likely to see benefits that are more pronounced.

Edited by midas, 11 April 2014 - 02:33 AM.

[sthira]

Now me! Ok, I've been taking 250 mg of niagen for more than a month now, and I'm $wallowing down a $econd bottle.  Haven't noticed much.  No blood pressure changes, no appetite or weight changes, nothing new about my sleep or circadian rhythm, no feelings of increased or decreased energy or strength or weakness, I'm still not drop-dead gorgeous, my Fouettes Pirouette is remains pretty hysterical, the hair around my caudal vertebrae stays bristled when surprised (oh wait, that's not me that's the cat) and my sense of humor languishes marginal to dim.  Or crepuscular.  Anyway: Go Niagen!  

[amark]

I'll be 85 in July.

Starting about 6 weeks ago, I began taking 250 mg.of Niagen a day. Beginning, maybe, 2 weeks ago, I upped my dose to 500 mg. a day. Now that my 12-bottle shipment of Niagen has been confirmed (thanks, PWAIN), I have begun today elevating my dose further, taking 500 mg. when I first arose. With it, I took a Longevinex resveratrol capsule, a 50 mg. apigenin capsule, 200 mg. of LEF SAMe, 125 mg. of TMG, an LEF Asian Energy Boost (333 mg. of Cordyceps mushroom extracts, and 55 mg. of fermented Asian ginseng extract), and a 5 mg. MitoQ capsule. Then I went off to the Wellness Center and ran 2 miles at 7¾ METs. After that, I ran 4 high-intensity 60-second sprints at 9½ METs. The Wellness Center has a "ChinAssist" setup that let's you set the amount of lift you need to chin yourself. At 10 pounds of lift, I can chin myself several times nonstop. At 5 pounds of lift, I can just barely pull myself up, so there's a fairly sensitive threshold. (I began upper-body exercises about two months ago after 25 years of upper-body inactivity.) It will be interesting to see if Niagen can boost my capability to lift my own weight since this is (1) easily measured, and (2) sensitive to small differences.

After I got home from the Wellness Center, I took 2 more LEF Mitochondrial Energy Optimizers (with another 5 mg. of PQQ. Along with that, I took an LEF CoQ-10 capsule with 10 mg. of PQQ. Then I ate my brunch of walnuts, pistachios, almonds, and cranberries, and a cup of V8 juice. This was followed by a cup of matcha green tea, with a heaping teaspoonful of Navitas high-polyphenol, "raw" cocao, along with lime juice and Stevia. A couple of hours later, I took a second 500 mg. dose of Niagen with a 200 mg. SAMe, 2 more LEF Mitochondrial Energy Optimizers (with another 5 mg. of PQQ), another Asian Energy Boost capsule, and a LEF calorie restriction mimetic (resveratrol, etc.)

My last basic blood chemistry panel was obtained in December. I'm preparing for a follow-up, but I'll wait a week or two to see what effects these Niagen experiments might have. The only anomaly in my December bloodwork was that my HDL level had risen from the 70's and 80's to 94. My total cholesterol reading was 193, with an LDL value of 88, a VLDL nuber of 11, and a triglyceride count of 55. My fasting glucose was 83.

My game plan is to increase my Niagen intake every couple of days If I don't experience any unwanted side effects, I'll target a steady-state dose of 3 grams a day roughly a week from now. (I weigh about 60 kilograms.) In the meantime, we'll see what effects, if any, show up.

Bob I would like to suggest adding piperine (BIO peperin at swansonsvitamins.com.  I have been taking about 500mg plus of resveratrol a day since 2006. When I added piperine to the dose MY hair started to grow back significantly. Indicates something is happening. If you Google it you will find that piperine increases the initial spike in the blood by about 200 % and keeps a higher level of the stuff in the blood for about 3 hours instead of 30 minutes. Best of luck with it all.

[BobSeitz]

Thanks, Amark. I'll certainly try that.

[sthira]

How much of this is marketing hype and how much is accurate? Here's promotional text about Niagen on Amazon:

"N ® Niagen Nicotinamide Riboside 

Physical trauma, viral infections, drugs, and heavy metals can cause millions to billions of cells to function below optimal levels. As a result, many struggle with anxiety, ADD, ADHD, fatigue, depression and other health issues. N® is way to address these issues naturally. N® consists of Nicotinamide Riboside. This neutraceutical is a precursor to the NAD+ (Nicotinamide Adenine Dinucleotide). NAD+ is needed for cells to make ATP or energy. By increasing ATP production, one can achieve cellular protection and balance. N® is ideal for anyone who suffers with anxiety, depression, ADD or ADHD, Fatigue, and Depression It is also ideal for anyone who plays contact supports. Blows to the head can have devastating, long term effects on the health of athletes. One of the most incredible benefits of N® is neuroprotection!In addition to neurological benefits, N® is also used by athletes and fitness-minded individuals for performance enhancement. Since N® use causes an increase in mitochondrial biogenesis, mitochondrial size and cristae density, it aids in metabolism support and muscular endurance. Nicotinamide adenine dinucleotide (NAD) deficiency - a key issue NAD stands for nicotinamide adenine dinucleotide, which is the chemical term for a molecule that reacts with oxygen in the mitochondria in every cell of your body in order to create energy so you can move, breathe, pump blood, digest food, think, and generally, live your life. Lack of this essential cellular fuel is now recognized as a key feature of chronic fatigue, apathy, depression, anxiety, alcohol and drug addiction, weak immune system (infections and cancer), muscle pain and weakness, headaches, memory disturbance, sleep problems, focus and concentration defects and other chronic diseases. NAD deficiency may be an unrecognized epidemic of cellular disease."

[midas]

"If" NR does what it is supposed to do, then people that are already fit and healthy may just be a little disappointed, as they may not benefit from it much in a noticeable way other than it keeping things ticking along OK.

If people with NAD+ levels that are already at where they should be then I would be surprised if it would do anything much that they would notice.

What I'm basically saying there is, if you give someone the cure for a disease they don't have, then they wont notice any benefit from the treatment.

 

Again, "If" it does what it is supposed to, then people that are not doing so well in the NAD+ department and have mitochondrial issues should benefit more.

 

Their is no arguing over the fact that is seems to do a lot in trials on mice but we have yet to see exactly what it will do for us....The scientists involved seem to believe very strongly that it's special, so I suppose we are just going to have to wait and see.

 

And "If" it actually is all hype, then we are all about to learn a what could be an expensive lesson..

 

Thats my take on it.

 

..

[niner]

How much of this is marketing hype and how much is accurate? Here's promotional text about Niagen on Amazon:

... anxiety, ADD, ADHD, fatigue, depression and other health issues. N® is way to address these issues naturally.
 
...N® is ideal for anyone who suffers with anxiety, depression, ADD or ADHD, Fatigue, and Depression It is also ideal for anyone who plays contact supports. [sic]
 
... N® is also used by athletes and fitness-minded individuals for performance enhancement.
 
...Lack of this essential cellular fuel is now recognized as a key feature of chronic fatigue, apathy, depression, anxiety, alcohol and drug addiction, weak immune system (infections and cancer), muscle pain and weakness, headaches, memory disturbance, sleep problems, focus and concentration defects and other chronic diseases. NAD deficiency may be an unrecognized epidemic of cellular disease."

 Most of it is irresponsible hype / BS.  It's kind of like they took a list of the most common complaints, and are saying it cures all of them.
 

"If" NR does what it is supposed to do, then people that are already fit and healthy may just be a little disappointed, as they may not benefit from it much in a noticeable way other than it keeping things ticking along OK.
If people with NAD+ levels that are already at where they should be then I would be surprised if it would do anything much that they would notice.
What I'm basically saying there is, if you give someone the cure for a disease they don't have, then they wont notice any benefit from the treatment.

Kind of like c60. If you don't have any disease or dysfunction that these things treat, then you aren't going to "feel" anything. That doesn't mean they aren't doing you any good at all, but it's less obvious.

[midas]

 

How much of this is marketing hype and how much is accurate? Here's promotional text about Niagen on Amazon:

... anxiety, ADD, ADHD, fatigue, depression and other health issues. N® is way to address these issues naturally.
 
...N® is ideal for anyone who suffers with anxiety, depression, ADD or ADHD, Fatigue, and Depression It is also ideal for anyone who plays contact supports. [sic]
 
... N® is also used by athletes and fitness-minded individuals for performance enhancement.
 
...Lack of this essential cellular fuel is now recognized as a key feature of chronic fatigue, apathy, depression, anxiety, alcohol and drug addiction, weak immune system (infections and cancer), muscle pain and weakness, headaches, memory disturbance, sleep problems, focus and concentration defects and other chronic diseases. NAD deficiency may be an unrecognized epidemic of cellular disease."

 Most of it is irresponsible hype / BS.  It's kind of like they took a list of the most common complaints, and are saying it cures all of them.
 

"If" NR does what it is supposed to do, then people that are already fit and healthy may just be a little disappointed, as they may not benefit from it much in a noticeable way other than it keeping things ticking along OK.
If people with NAD+ levels that are already at where they should be then I would be surprised if it would do anything much that they would notice.
What I'm basically saying there is, if you give someone the cure for a disease they don't have, then they wont notice any benefit from the treatment.

Kind of like c60. If you don't have any disease or dysfunction that these things treat, then you aren't going to "feel" anything. That doesn't mean they aren't doing you any good at all, but it's less obvious.

 

That is pretty much what I was saying in the last part of my first sentence that I have highlighted in bold above.

Maybe I didn't word that correctly.

What I meant was, it will just be working away and keeping things right without you really noticing as you are already feeling fit and healthy. e.g. the healthier you are, the less your gonna notice....

 

Maybe for less healthy people like me it might show a difference.I have a heart scan in around six-nine months and it may show something there that was different before. The scan covers the physical size of the heart and also it shows how well the muscles and chambers work on both sides, and also tells how much it is pumping (Ejection fraction "E/F")

It hasn't changed much in the past two to three years so that will be a good comparison.

 

I intend to take the NR for about six to nine months before the scan to give it a chance to do something.

 

But I really need to find a way of getting it at a decent price, otherwise I cant afford to take large doses....NR is two times what you pay in the USA over here and I am not a wealthy person.

[sthira]

Maybe for less healthy people like me it might show a difference.I have a heart scan in around six-nine months and it may show something there that was different before. The scan covers the physical size of the heart and also it shows how well the muscles and chambers work on both sides, and also tells how much it is pumping (Ejection fraction "E/F")
It hasn't changed much in the past two to three years so that will be a good comparison.
 
I intend to take the NR for about six to nine months before the scan to give it a chance to do something.
 

Very cool!  Be sure to take meticulous notes.

[BobSeitz]

It's time for my Friday update.

I've had a bad hair day. Last night, for the first time, my left shoulder hurt enough that I had to take half an Excedrin to get to sleep. Yesterday, I pushed our 7½-year-old on her bike with my left hand. It was at an awkward angle, and it hurt a bit. My left shoulder has been "sensitive" for a while, but it hasn't affected me longer then the spurs of the moment. I've had other little aches and pains that have come and gone. But I take anything like this seriously. I don't want osteoarthritis to set up in a joint. This is a Friday, so the medical system will be shut down until next week. Although I may be able to get some advice at the Wellness Center tomorrow, I wasn't able to go there today. The bottom line: I skipped exercise today, and I'll suspend exercise until I can get some qualified advice on what to do for my shoulder. (Tonight, I took two Excedrin, which I haven't done for quite a while. It has helped somewhat, but not a lot.)

I've also been depressed today, which is quite unusual for me. Of course, it's possible that both of these effects are a consequence of the high dose of Niagen I'm taking. I hate to back off taking Niagen because I want to see this high-dose experiment performed, but I don't think I'll take my bedtime dose tonight, and I may not continue in the morning. Given the high cost of high-dose Niagen, I don't want to interrupt this test and then start all over again.

Of course, the problem with my shoulder may well have nothing to do with Niagen.

We'll see.
 

[toddtrout]

• Dosage

1 gram morning, 30 minutes before eating. 1 gram night. Before final meal of day.

• Dosage frequency (number of times per day)

2

• How did you arrive at the dosage you're using

Total guess. 

• Consumed with or without food.

Mostly without. 

• When did NR consumption commence - how long have you been taking it

3 weeks, purchased 6 bottles in group buy going to continue till I'm out and evaluate 

buying more at that time. 

• Are you considering the circadian clock in your decision of when to dose

No.

• Are you taking any other NAD+ precursors

No

• Are you taking any CD38 inhibitors

No

• Are you taking any other "mitochondrial enhancers"

No

• Athletic/exercise experience: seasoned athlete, intermediate, beginner

Intermediate.

• Types of exercise involved

Running, olympic style weight lifting, kettle bells, medicine ball, battle ropes, sled pushes, cable machine with motions intended to isolate core.

• Health metrics: blood tests (NR's impact on lipids would be interesting), body weight, blood 
• pressure, body composition

2% fat loss in past 3 weeks as measured by a really nice electronic machine at the gym.

No change in blood pressure, runs slightly low. 

• Measurable cognitive changes

Possible enhancement to focus and drive, notable increase in efficiency at work as measured by rescuetime + the Jira ticketing system I operate in (I am a unix sysadmin)   I am also on daily 12 grams of piracetem, 2 grams centrophenoxine,

1.2 grams aniracetam at night,  jarrow neuro optomizer choline blend 5 capsules at night and I'm experimenting with lipo-curcumin, lipo-gsh, and a ribose/carnitine blend called ribo-carniclear - that is two grams of each ribose and carnitine. The ribo-carniclear is also interesting, it gives me a rush like I am High as a Kite during workouts, it's so intense, I can't take it on days that I'm working out. 

• Measurable changes in fitness

I workout with a bluetooth heart rate chest strap and my recovery time between sets is noticeably improved with the addition of NR. The BT HR monitor is sending to RedShoes HR App which is Ok for instant visual data but doesn't give me any good logging and historical comparisons.  

• General, overall analysis of NR

I'm doing three days of intense exercise per week with a trainer. A typical workout is barbell clean and press, one arm clean and press kettle bell, planks, side planks, pull ups, narrow grip pushups on an inverted bosu ball, catch and throw medicine ball while standing on one leg, wall ball. All of these are done to muscle failure. 

 

My recovery time the next day after workouts since starting NR has changed from, well, walking around in a state of near pain all day, especially in the hip joints if it was a squat day and hamstrings if it was a deadlift day, to... I'm totally serious - nothing. It's like it didn't happen. I have not recovered this fast from intense exercise since I was in my early 20's. Since I'm having no penalty, I'm going even harder and still, no pain, no soreness. Added overhead squats I hadn't done in a few years, still nothing. 

 

I am 41 years old. 

[sthira]

Bob, did you have the shoulder pain and depression before you began Niagen?

[midas]

Of course, the problem with my shoulder may well have nothing to do with Niagen.

We'll see.
 

 

My guess is that it more likely to do with straining something in that shoulder with those chin ups Bob.

 

 

 

My recovery time the next day after workouts since starting NR has changed from, well, walking around in a state of near pain all day, especially in the hip joints if it was a squat day and hamstrings if it was a deadlift day, to... I'm totally serious - nothing. It's like it didn't happen. I have not recovered this fast from intense exercise since I was in my early 20's. Since I'm having no penalty, I'm going even harder and still, no pain, no soreness. Added overhead squats I hadn't done in a few years, still nothing. 

 

I am 41 years old. 

 

 

 

Well that last paragraph sounds promising

[Kevnzworld]

My update:
Let me preface this by saying that I typically " feel " nothing from any of the thirty odd supple to that I take daily, including hormones. I trust given the research I do that they are working subtlety on a cellular level. There are some that I can see tangible effects on blood test results though.
I started taking Niagen about a month ago . I split the 250 mg dose, morning and late afternoon. I decided that if it works similar to other forms of Niacin, that I would need a larger dose to overcome methyl degradation to get a longer half life and hopefully a greater boost in NAD. I went to 250mg in the AM, and 125 mg late day.
I've now upped my morning dose to 375 mg since I seem to tolerate it well. I can say for the first time that I actually " feel " something, noticeably increased energy. Now what this translates to in terms of NAD+ I can't possibly say. But it does seem that at least for me 375 mg is what makes the difference. I still take an additional 125 mg late in the day
I also, it should be noted, doubled my resveratrol intake to 200 mg

[blood]

 

... I have not recovered this fast from intense exercise since I was in my early 20's. Since I'm having no penalty, I'm going even harder...

 

 

If NR does e.g., quicken recovery from exercise or increase endurance, perhaps a danger could be people "going even harder" like toddtrout & inflicting muscle/tendon/joint injuries on themselves.

 

(Why I'm now using a stationary bike instead of jogging on concrete footpaths).

Edited by blood, 13 April 2014 - 04:12 AM.

[toddtrout]

It is a legitimate concern.  

 

I'll speak up immediately and admit to any perception on my part that rapid recovery time  and lack of pain based warnings lead to my downfall.

 

[aribadabar]

My initial experience:

 

I also went 2 days without any supplements to let most "wash out" before trying Niagen. I also don't "feel" much of most supplements I take except the flush induced by the instant release niacin in doses above 300mg.

This morning, I took 1 cap on an empty stomach but I did not seem to feel anything. 40 min later, I decided to empty the contents of another capsule under my tongue. While the taste is slightly bitter, I didn't experience any jaw aches as reported by other users. As I type this (2h after sublingual intake), I can report that there is a very perceptible influx of energy and slightly increased body heat at this dosage akin to a mild flush. Nothing "superhuman" but noticeable enough nonetheless.

 

I will test if the exercise is improved later today.

 

A question to the more experienced NR takers:

• Which supplements may boost the effect of NR and which ones may potentially dampen it?

Thanks!

Edited by aribadabar, 13 April 2014 - 03:34 PM.

[sthira]

Remember to stay hydrated on this stuff.  I have an annoying habit of forgetting to drink enough water.  And sometimes when I take niacin I won't get any red-skinned flushing until I rehydrate.  Maybe NR is similar, and maybe we'll 'notice more if we keep all those little cells liquid-happy.

[lemonhead]

Hi Bob,

 

Thanks for sharing your experiences. I must say, hearing about how much you do is inspiring. I hope your shoulder gets  better and your mood lifts.

...

 

I've been taking Niagen for about two weeks. The first week I only took one capsule (125 mg) first thing in the morining right before eating breakfast. This past week I upped it to two. I usually take fairly low doses of medication and such, so I start low with supplements and titrate up.

 

I haven't really noticed much change. If anything, I feel even lower energy than normal. I'm a 45 yr old felmale and although I try my best to live a healthful lifestyle, I usually feel lousy. I've been that way my whole life; as my mother said in her thick German accent, 'You alvays ver ah zickly child'. I though that when I moved out on my own away from the cigarette smoke I'd get better,  but it didn't work out that way.

 

On Monday I did some cadio and some free weights. I did lunges, which I haven't done in a long time, so I went really easy only 2 sets of seven reps with 10lbs. I was sore until yesterday. Since Monday, I've just done gardening.

 

My weight went up a bit to 110 lbs.

 

I haven't been taking anything that would enhance the NR, except for some artichoke soup (around 6 oz/day); that probably has a decent amount of apigenin.

 

I'll try the sublingual thing, drinking more water, then maybe taking a higher dose.

 

 

Edited by lemonhead, 13 April 2014 - 07:56 PM.

[tintinet]

I have been taking 250 mg Q AM for a few months. Noticed nothing, typical of my response to supplements. About a week ago, increased to 250mg  Q AM plus another 250 mg mid-morning. Still nothing. Mostly PO, although I've taken in SL a few times with similar non-results. Still get sore after workouts, feel tired if not getting enough sleep, etc.. No noticeable increased energy, etc..

Edited by tintinet, 13 April 2014 - 10:30 PM.

[midas]

I'm not sure I would be expecting to see or feel any difference taking NR especially in doses less than a couple of grams daily. But hopefully it will be doing something internally.

 

There is a good chance that it will show different plasma levels in different people as you find with Q10, some people only need a couple of hundred mg to make a marked difference in Q10 plasma levels and some need a lot more to show the same levels. I doubt that NR is going to be a one dose size fits all kind of supplement but taking it regularly should work if the hype is to be believed.

 

I think a lot of people are expecting to much to happen to soon with this.

 

The results here clearly show that it does work on dysfunctional mitochondria, if you don't have such a dysfunction then you may not notice much but it should still be working for you in some way, and it may take time for it to do its work, especially in low doses.

 

http://www.scienceda...40407090403.htm

 

"These results clearly showed the potential of this, to activate dysfunctional mitochondrial metabolism"

 

http://embomolmed.em...403943.full.pdf

 

I distinctly get the impression that patience will be a virtue with NR, and think it is wrong to expect to much to soon. If it does just half what we are led to believe it is worth taking, as long as you can afford to take it and I am very sure that we should have access to it at a reasonable price in the near future.

 

Rome wasn't built in a day, as the saying goes.

 

I certainly dont think its a good idea to compare NR to what happened to that mouse in the NMN trial to much and it is wholly inadequate to expect the same results from taking a small does of a different though similar compound.

 

Softly softly catchy monkey, is another saying we use over here

 

Edited by midas, 14 April 2014 - 12:55 AM.

[to age or not to age]

http://youtu.be/Mpf923bUDyc

This is a reprise of the link I posted on the Sinclair thread today.

David Sinclair and Leonard Guarente 

NAD and NR are discussed

[BobSeitz]

Sunday night: I didn't quite manage to post an update last night, and this afternoon, our 7½-year-old sweetling commandeered my computer to watch "The Care Bears".

My shoulder is about well. Hopefully, it's going to be the kind of aches and pains we get when we exercise.

My depression also seems to have faded out. This afternoon, it occurred to me that I'm taking a massive dose of niacinamide riboside but no other B-vitamins, so I took four LEF Life Extension Foundation Mix capsules to shore up my B-vitamin levels. This is probably pure 'witchcraft', but after I took the LEF mix, my depression lifted. (I very rarely get depressed, and then only when there's a proximate cause.)
 

Once again, I'm taking 2½ grams a day of Niagen. 

"Lemonhead", I'm sorry life isn't being kinder to you. 

[Kevnzworld]

Bob:
I think balance is important with supplementation, and exercise. Work into your routine slowly, and carefully. 2 1/2 grams per day of Niagen may displace other nutrients or be more than your body can handle. I started with 125 mg twice a day..then I went to 250 mg in the morning, and 125 mg later in the day. Now I'm taking 375 mg in the morning, and 125 mg later. I think from what I " feel " that is is the right dose for me. I'm 57, so your best dose may be somewhat higher. I know that you also take resveratrol...that's good. Consider higher doses of buffered ascorbate C.
Re : depression, I take melatonin 3 mg and 5 HTP. Before bed. It's made a difference.

[niner]

I think a lot of people are expecting to much to happen to soon with this.
 
The results here clearly show that it does work on dysfunctional mitochondria, if you don't have such a dysfunction then you may not notice much but it should still be working for you in some way, and it may take time for it to do its work, especially in low doses.

...

I distinctly get the impression that patience will be a virtue with NR, and think it is wrong to expect to much to soon. If it does just half what we are led to believe it is worth taking, as long as you can afford to take it and I am very sure that we should have access to it at a reasonable price in the near future.

It's a pretty exciting compound, so I'm not surprised to see high expectations. I think you're right that if you expect to feel something from NR, you need to have the appropriate mitochondrial/metabolic dysfunction. I'm not sure that it follows, however, that low doses in healthy people will eventually lead to something good. If you don't take enough to alter NAD+ levels, you could take that dose forever and only get expensive urine. If you take enough to raise NAD+ levels, but your NAD+ levels are already high enough, it may or may not make a difference in your health.

[aribadabar]

Today's experience:

 

I decided to try one cap sublingually today (on an empty stomach) to see if the this route shows some results even at this low dosage.

I think the effect is about 40-50% of yesterday's - the slightly increased body heat is present again but at reduced rate.

This effect lasted 3-4 hours yesterday.

 

I also noticed yesterday that my lymph nodes on both sides of my neck have become sensitive (and they still are) - not sure if it is coincidence or not - I don't feel any perceptible oral/facial inflammation that may account for this but on the other hand, my back was pretty stiff (better today) so it may be the cause for the lymph node issue.

 

As to exercise performance  yesterday - I don't seem to be able to detect any difference. I was able to make 15 dead hang pull-ups and 18 chin-ups which is usual for me.

 

To note, I have also taken C60-oo 2 full droppers per day because I am not sure if my concentration is the maximal possible since the colour of the oil is now dark whiskey and not reddish and there is still significant sediment on the bottom of the jar after 1 week of daily shaking. FWIW, the C60-oo intake is in the afternoon so it should not account for the reported effect.

Edited by aribadabar, 14 April 2014 - 03:53 PM.

[Kevnzworld]

I think a lot of people are expecting to much to happen to soon with this.
 
The results here clearly show that it does work on dysfunctional mitochondria, if you don't have such a dysfunction then you may not notice much but it should still be working for you in some way, and it may take time for it to do its work, especially in low doses.

...

I distinctly get the impression that patience will be a virtue with NR, and think it is wrong to expect to much to soon. If it does just half what we are led to believe it is worth taking, as long as you can afford to take it and I am very sure that we should have access to it at a reasonable price in the near future.

It's a pretty exciting compound, so I'm not surprised to see high expectations. I think you're right that if you expect to feel something from NR, you need to have the appropriate mitochondrial/metabolic dysfunction. I'm not sure that it follows, however, that low doses in healthy people will eventually lead to something good. If you don't take enough to alter NAD+ levels, you could take that dose forever and only get expensive urine. If you take enough to raise NAD+ levels, but your NAD+ levels are already high enough, it may or may not make a difference in your health.

How does one know their NAD levels, especially those of us in their 50's? Hopefully there will be further studies that will show how much NR is necessary to move the NAD needle.
I " feel " a difference at 375 mg. who knows if that translates into an increase in NAD+.
NAD. Levels do decline with age, so I think it's safe to assume that those of us over 50 could use some help, even if we are otherwise metabolically healthy.


Age Related Changes in NAD+ Metabolism Oxidative Stress and Sirt1 Activity in Wistar Rats
" The cofactor nicotinamide adenine dinucleotide (NAD+) has emerged as a key regulator of metabolism, stress resistance and longevity."
" We examined the effect of aging on intracellular NAD+ metabolism in the whole heart, lung, liver and kidney of female wistar rats. Our results are the first to show a significant decline in intracellular NAD+ levels and NAD:NADH ratio in all organs by middle age (i.e.12 months) compared to young (i.e. 3 month old) rats. These changes in [NAD(H)] occurred in parallel with an increase in lipid peroxidation and protein carbonyls (o- and m- tyrosine) formation and decline in total antioxidant capacity in these organs. An age dependent increase in DNA damage (phosphorylated H2AX) was also observed in these same organs. Decreased Sirt1 activity and increased acetylated p53 were observed in organ tissues in parallel with the drop in NAD+ and moderate over-expression of Sirt1 protein. Reduced mitochondrial activity of complex IIV was also observed in aging animals, impacting both redox status and ATP production. The strong positive correlation observed between DNA damage associated NAD+ depletion and Sirt1 activity suggests that adequate NAD+ concentrations may be an important longevity assurance factor."
http://www.plosone.o...ne-0019194-g010

[APBT]

ORIGINAL POST:  http://www.longecity...oup-buy/page-4#entry656288

 

 

mikey, on 14 Apr 2014 - 3:34 PM, said:
  I am not sure why, but both days that I took it I had stomach pains later in the day and the first day I puked a couple hours after taking it, like having serotonin-sick syndrome

  I believe I may have naturally high serotonin because I also get nauseated and have puked when I took 5-HTP.

  I haven't taken NR since.

  I'll try it again on a day when I don't have lots of responsibilities.

  Doing searches I didn't find data that it increases serotonin. I may be some kind of unusual case.

 

For context, here's the link to the post in this thread that relates to the above quote.

http://www.longecity...ad/#entry655516

 

Edited to add link for context.

Edited by APBT, 15 April 2014 - 10:49 PM.

[APBT]

For those who are taking other NAD+ precursors and/or "mitochondrial enhancers" and are not experiencing any measurable benefit from NR, a possibility would be to discontinue those supplements, followed with an appropriate washout period.  After which a re-introduction of NR may show some results.