2266 replies to this topic

[sthira]

I'm on my third bottle now, and taking 250mg am, and 250mg pm, and continue to notice nothing. It's been more than a month, and I'm still unsure what to expect in terms of feelings and sensations. It's an expensive little experiment that features stumbling in the dark, and wondering if I've fallen like a sucker. I hope it's not doing any harm -- who knows...

[BobSeitz]

Saturday night update:  After taking 750 mg. of NR yesterday morning, I've temporarily interrupted my NR experimentation. I plan on getting a routine blood chemistry panel on Monday morning, and I'm thinking that although it would be interesting to see if 2 gms. a day of NR would affect my results, I don't want to rock the boat just yet. I want to compare my upcoming results with my last bloodwork (which included an HDL level of 94 mg./dl.) I have other irons in the fire, and I want to see what's happening with them before I add NR to the mix (assuming I haven't added it in already).

 

[kenj]

For a couple days I have experimented with various doses (250mg-2G), and haven't really noticed anything extraordinary. Though the 2G dose in the morning before cardio workout left me quite weak, and low blood sugar'ish, haha. Not doing that again. 

 

Might stick with 500mg (4 caps) in the morning. 

 

[to age or not to age]

My wife has experimented with c60, NR, resveratrol, and curcumin.  At a dinner on Friday evening,

someone asked if she felt any different.  She replied: (in words to this effect) 'yes, at the beginning, and from time to time, but it seems to me that you always adjust to whatever state your in, so it feels normal and you can't tell

any more if it's different'  

I think this is a key component of what people engaged is life extension interventions will begin to consider;

the various psychological components of this phenomenon.  Just looking around in the world, it's clear that

people adjust, take cues from the outside world etc. - what Vince Gluilano and I often speak about - the epigenome.

And these elements themselves trigger things within metabolism. 

So, 'how are you feeling' is going to be a relative thing for sure.

[aribadabar]

After 1 week of NR abstinence ( I have taken niacin on several occasions, though) I decided to empty 2 Niagen caps under my tongue this morning.

No perceptible response to report.

 

Either the NR effects are very subtle and/or require long-term administration or it doesn't do much at the recommended by HPN dosage.

[midas]

My wife has experimented with c60, NR, resveratrol, and curcumin.  At a dinner on Friday evening,

someone asked if she felt any different.  She replied: (in words to this effect) 'yes, at the beginning, and from time to time, but it seems to me that you always adjust to whatever state your in, so it feels normal and you can't tell

any more if it's different'  

I think this is a key component of what people engaged is life extension interventions will begin to consider;

the various psychological components of this phenomenon.  Just looking around in the world, it's clear that

people adjust, take cues from the outside world etc. - what Vince Gluilano and I often speak about - the epigenome.

And these elements themselves trigger things within metabolism. 

So, 'how are you feeling' is going to be a relative thing for sure.

 

Great observation, exactly` how I see it.

 

I have said in one or two posts that I think people are expecting to notice too much to soon from taking NR. In my opinion it will be doing the work that it is supposed to do without you really noticing much at all. This will be happening over months rather than weeks.

That is of course, if it does actually work.

 

A personal example of what I am talking about is....I have Idiopathic Dilated Cardiomyopathy (caused by an unknown virus), my ejection fraction (the amount the heart pumps) was down at 30% and had been at that figure for 6 years. I started taking CoQ10 and within a  year it was up to 52%, these percentage figures are out of 60 and not 100 as the heart pumps 60% in a healthy heart. This happened over a period of about 12 months and I did not feel much different that I could tell, yet that 22% gain in heart function is a really big deal.

The physical size of my heart also altered, with Cardiomyopathy your heart enlarges and it has at last scan become a lot smaller than it was and is nearly back to normal size.

 

I had looked into this a great deal before I started with the Q10 and about 18 months after I had received the good news of my heart doing a lot better than it was this study was announced, which completely backs up what had happened to me well over a year earlier....

http://www.scienceda...30525143852.htm

 

I think the NR will work in the same way and make subtle alterations over a longer period of time rather that in a few days or weeks. This may not be the case with a relevant dose of NR but as yet we have no idea of how this works for us, but I am hoping the ongoing research into NR can tell us sooner rather than later.

The biggest drawback with NR right now is the lack of availability at a price that will let us take higher doses.

 

The obvious next step for Gluilano and Sinclair IMO will be the NMN (nicotinamide mononucleotide) that was used in the mouse trial we have read so much about, which made that huge change to muscle tissue in mice. The reason I think this is because the NR boat has pretty much set sail with the release of Niagen.

I have a feeling they will be looking for a way of producing and marketing NMN (nicotinamide mononucleotide) at a cost that is sustainable as a supplement. I think there are good things to come from all this.

[BobSeitz]

Sunday night update:  Midas,,that's greatl news about your heart. As you say, it's hard to tell that anything is happening, so it's good to learn that these supplements can sometimes produce dramatic results. With respect to NMN, doesn't that have to be taken parenterally? Of course, if you can take NR sublingually, I guess you could take NMN that way also. What are your thoughts?

Anbadabar, I wanted to see whether, if we take NR at presumed human-equivalent doses, we would see or feel an immediate effect, but it doesn't look as though that's happening. But as" to age or not to age" notes, we may subjectively adjust to new norms without noticing the differences.

Kers, I haven't taken a 2-gram dose in one lump sum, but have divided my dosage throughout the day. Maybe that's why I haven't felt any effects. (I'm also taking other co-factors such as SAMe, resveratrol, and other B-vitamins with my Niagen, so that might make a difference.)

I've avoided taking any supplements, including NR, until my blood draw tomorrow morning. When I resume taking NR, it will be after a week's abstinence. I may switch to a lower dosage since the 2-gram dose hasn't produced any perceptible effects (and it's expensive).
 

[midas]

 

 

 

The obvious next step for Gluilano and Sinclair IMO will be the NMN (nicotinamide mononucleotide) that was used in the mouse trial we have read so much about, which made that huge change to muscle tissue in mice. The reason I think this is because the NR boat has pretty much set sail with the release of Niagen.

I have a feeling they will be looking for a way of producing and marketing NMN (nicotinamide mononucleotide) at a cost that is sustainable as a supplement. I think there are good things to come from all this.

 

 

Just to correct the last paragraph in my last post, first line...I meant to say Guarente and not Gluilano

[BobSeitz]

Monday night update:  Today was dominated by the tornadoes that swept across the land. Schools let out at 11:30 a. m. I went to the Wellness Center and gingerly walked for about 20 minutes at a leisurely pace to insure that my right knee wouldn't be displeased. (It wasn't.) I also took 500 mg. of NR with SAMe, s-acetyl glutathione (the bioavailable kind)m and Longevinex resveratrol. The rest of the day and evening was spent glued to the local weather channel as dozens of tornadoes spun up and dissipated. 

[mpe]

I was talking to my diabetic friend today, the subject of NR came up. He told me how he felt tired in the evenings, much more than before taking NR, both my wife and myself have the same experience. I don't think i actually sleep better, neither does my wife, if anything our sleep is worse. My wife and I both noticed the afternoon energy loss once our daily dosage passed 500mg, our daily dosage now exceeds 1500mg a day, the energy loss remains as it does for my friend who is on 2 grams a day.

The worst thing is that hat none of us feel like we're 20 years younger.

Perhaps NR is a dud.

Mike

[MarcD]

you need more sleep, unless you're very old. I'm 33... so if we "feel like we're 20 years younger" ...I'm 13 ... and I've slept a lot more as a teenager

[BobSeitz]

Tuesday night update:  Today, I took 500 mg. of Niagen. I also visited the Wellness Center and ran for 15 minutes at 8 METs, followed by two  2-minute sprints at 9 METs... half my usual quota. School let out early again today so I had to curtail my exercise session, besides which I wasn't sure what running full-tilt would do to my right knee. But so far, it seems to be OK.

If I increase my NR dosage to 2 grams a day again, I'll watch for an afternoon letdown. Maybe NR is a dud. Or maybe it will take a while to see results. I'm monitoring one possible benefit, but I'll need to see assured improvements before I make claims. 

[Mr.No]

Guys, you don't need to spend hard earned cache on NR. Nicotinic acid is more effective (and probably more safe) in increasing NAD levels in neurons. Read this article carefully and make your own conclusions... 

 

http://www.ncbi.nlm....nihms-96557.pdf

 

Some quotes:

 

"In all vertebrates, NAD can be synthesized by two pathways: de novo synthesis from tryptophan [3,4] and/or from vitamin precursors in the diet: NA, nicotinamide (NAM), and nicotinamide riboside (NAMR)."

 

"not every cell is capable of converting each precursor to NAD at all times although NAD is essential to survival."  

http://www.ncbi.nlm....51433/table/T1/

 

"Neuronal explant experiments performed by Sasaki et al. reveal neurons are inefficient at de novo and salvage NAD biosynthesis."

 

"In contrast to neurons, glial cells possess efficient de novo and salvage pathways. Glial cells use NA with more than a 250-fold greater efficiency than NAM or quinolinate"

 

"Current data strongly support the notion that glia serve important roles in both the synthesis of NAD from tryptophan, NA, or NAM, and the delivery of NAD to neurons (Fig. 3)."

 

"Given the divisions of labor reserved for glia, it makes sense that glia are likely more efficient at NAD biosynthesis than neurons and consequently serve critical functions as providers of NAD to neurons. Collectively experimental data supports the notion that glial may be required for the essential delivery of NAD to neurons starting from tryptophan, nicotinic acid/niacin, or nicotinamide/niacinamide, but not nicotinamide riboside [1]."

 

etc

 

There are many other health benefits with supplying body with niacinamide/nicotinic acid...

By the way, brain is composed of 90% of glial cells http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Neuroglia

 

 

 

 

[tunt01]

Interesting points Slobodan.  However, I'm not sure a pure neurological viewpoint is the only way to consider NMR.  I think the focal point of the recent Sinclair paper was actually on muscle tissue, not neurons.

[midas]

Interesting points Slobodan.  However, I'm not sure a pure neurological viewpoint is the only way to consider NMR.  I think the focal point of the recent Sinclair paper was actually on muscle tissue, not neurons.

 

Keep in mind the Sinclair paper was on NMN (Nicotinamide Mononucleotide) not NR (Nicotinamide Riboside)
 

[Mr.No]

Interesting points Slobodan.  However, I'm not sure a pure neurological viewpoint is the only way to consider NMR.  I think the focal point of the recent Sinclair paper was actually on muscle tissue, not neurons.

 

Point was that you don't need to spend money on expensive NR to increase NAD levels, you can do it effectively with NA/NAM, there are numerous studies proving that. Only "advantage" of NR over NA/NAM "was" that it can increase levels of NAD in neuron cells, but that's glial cells job and they do it very efficient. In other body tissues NAD levels can be increased with NA/NAM:

http://www.ncbi.nlm....51433/table/T1/

 

Even if NR was cheaper than NR/NAM I probably wouldn't use it because second two have more health benefits.  For example http://www.mdpi.com/...9/14/9/3446/pdf   and many others...

Edited by Slobodan Fuletic, 30 April 2014 - 10:46 PM.

[BobSeitz]

Tuesday night update:  I took 1.5 grams of NR today. I ran for 15 minutes at an 8-METs level, followed by four two-minute maximum-effort  sprints, followed in turn by 10 minutes of additional treadmill time at a 7-METs level.

[M-K]

Slobodan,

I think your overlooking something of significance.  NA takes four steps to make NAD, NR only two.  NAD production decreases with age.  We don't know why, but impairment of the mechanisms that convert NA and NAM seems likely.

 

My wife and I have been taking Niagin for four months now at 250 mg per day.  We're both in our mid 60s.  Results are subtle but noticeable.  Memory, mood, more energy and stamina, possibly vision and nitric oxide metabolism.  We're both in reasonably good health for our ages, have taken large but not megadoses of vitamins for 40 years, a few herbs, and resveratrol.  No clear affect on blood sugar.

 

Yes, it's expensive, but worth it so far.

[1thoughtMaze1]

Slobodan,
I think your overlooking something of significance.  NA takes four steps to make NAD, NR only two.  NAD production decreases with age.  We don't know why, but impairment of the mechanisms that convert NA and NAM seems likely.
 
My wife and I have been taking Niagin for four months now at 250 mg per day.  We're both in our mid 60s.  Results are subtle but noticeable.  Memory, mood, more energy and stamina, possibly vision and nitric oxide metabolism.  We're both in reasonably good health for our ages, have taken large but not megadoses of vitamins for 40 years, a few herbs, and resveratrol.  No clear affect on blood sugar.
 
Yes, it's expensive, but worth it so far.

Take both, problem solved

[Phoenicis]

Any updates? Seems like NR was a fail right?

[to age or not to age]

Phoenicis, I think the situation is more complicated; the length of time inre to effects, dosage and a person's

subjectivity, drug interactions etc

[M-K]

At four and a half months (250 mg/ day) I'm still discovering new and unexpected effects.  It's now easy, natural, and effortless to stand and walk bolt upright.  Improvement in posture was not expected, and I probably didn't notice for a week or better.  Now if only the face and hair would cooperate.

[nbourbaki]

I've been taking Niagen for a little over 3 months now.  I will be 60 years old in September.  Generally good health except for chronic prostatitis.  I've taken as much as 5 grams per day, but paying retail prices has caused me to cut back to 2.75 grams per day.  The sweet spot for me is 2-3 grams per day.  85-90% of the improvement at far less cost.  At 5 grams per day, I literally have no symptoms with prosatitis.

 

The biggest improvement I've felt has been the significant decrease in symptoms of prosatitis.  I've taken .4mg of Flomax for the last 10 years, but the best treatment I've had in all that time is taking over 2 grams of NR.  I haven't had a niacin crash in all the time I've taken NR.  I've divided my dosing into 5 doses.  4 doses at 625mg and 1 dose at 250mg before bed.  When I was at the higher grams per day, I increased the number of doses at 625mg.  When I tried 1 gram per dose, I had diarrhea, so I keep the dose at 625mg.  

 

Since I began taking NR, I've lost 20 pounds.  I don't give all the credit to NR.  I've dieted and I had the flu in that time and I've been exercising more consistently than I have in years.  I was keeping a journal, but there really isn't much new day-to-day to record.  I do keep records of my daily weight and body fat percentage.

 

Exercise seems easier with NR, but that could be from going from no exercise to consistent exercise during the week.  

 

In the last 17 years I've taken a lot of supplements and a few experimental compounds.  And other than cranberry capsules, I tried and abandoned more supplements than I care to admit.  NR has provided a benefit to my health more than 99% of the stuff I've taken.    

[M-K]

Nbourbaki,  do you find any problems sleeping with afternoon and night doses?  Thanks for your info.

[nbourbaki]

Nbourbaki,  do you find any problems sleeping with afternoon and night doses?  Thanks for your info.

 

When I first started NR I had to be careful not to consume much beyond 5pm because it would effect my ability to sleep.  After the first month on NR, I'm far less sensitive to taking NR in the evening.  Within the last week, I missed a dose and made it up by increasing my other doses and didn't have a problem at all consuming 625mg before bed.

[kenj]

Been taking a full bottle now, and then some and I speculate if NR is the reason why I feel very little (none) soreness in my body after a workout. 

The other day I ran 15 kilometers (~9 miles) with my usual distance being no more than 8 kilometers (~5 miles), and I literally could not feel anything in my legs the next day. 

 

It's 'funny', - I'm one of those guys that were severely affected by resveratrol for months (definite joint pain, and very bad recovery after running), and now I just don't feel like I've actually exercised, the following day. 

(I do take resv today, BTW.)

 

Another change: I wake up after 4-5 hours in the early morning, and sometimes can't sleep anymore (Despite being on melatonin, 5-HTP, and whatnot for years).

It doesn't ruin the day, but obviously I get quite tired around 4PM. 

 

 

Edited by kenj, 18 May 2014 - 06:12 PM.

[niner]

It's 'funny', - I'm one of those guys that were severely affected by resveratrol for months (definite joint pain, and very bad recovery after running), and now I just don't feel like I've actually exercised, the following day. 

(I do take resv today, BTW.)

 

Did the joint pain stop only after you started NR, or had it already cleared up before you started?

[kenj]

 

It's 'funny', - I'm one of those guys that were severely affected by resveratrol for months (definite joint pain, and very bad recovery after running), and now I just don't feel like I've actually exercised, the following day. 

(I do take resv today, BTW.)

 

Did the joint pain stop only after you started NR, or had it already cleared up before you started?

 

The joint pain went away before starting NR. However NR seems to help with the recovery after strenuous cardio exercises. 

[Phoenicis]

 

 

It's 'funny', - I'm one of those guys that were severely affected by resveratrol for months (definite joint pain, and very bad recovery after running), and now I just don't feel like I've actually exercised, the following day. 

(I do take resv today, BTW.)

 

Did the joint pain stop only after you started NR, or had it already cleared up before you started?

 

The joint pain went away before starting NR. However NR seems to help with the recovery after strenuous cardio exercises. 

 

How old are you, you seem quite young? Shouldn't you still have adequate NAD levels?

[kenj]

How old are you, you seem quite young? Shouldn't you still have adequate NAD levels?

 

 

 

I'm 36, so yeah 'fairly' young.. It's an old pic from joining LC in 2005.