2266 replies to this topic

[Phoenicis]

Oh ok, I thought you were a lot younger!

[kenj]

Has this been discussed?

Thorne Research is releasing 60capsx125mg for $59

 

http://www.thorne.co...g/prd~SP642.jsp

http://www.amazon.co...RXSPP2SVT4T8GXN

[Phoenicis]

contains Nicotinamide Riboside Chloride - wonder if this will work the same as the Sinclair precursor? 

[midas]

 

Has this been discussed?

Thorne Research is releasing 60capsx125mg for $59

 

http://www.thorne.co...g/prd~SP642.jsp

http://www.amazon.co...RXSPP2SVT4T8GXN

 

 

Yes it has.

 

Thorne has just bought Niagen (Nicotinamide Riboside Chloride) from Chromadex the same way as HPN did and marketed it under there own name. So same thing different company, oh, and its more expensive.

[to age or not to age]

Removed double post - APBT

Edited by APBT, 23 May 2014 - 10:55 PM.

[to age or not to age]

I will be filming up at Harvard and MIT this coming month.  I will see what I can get on the record as to dosage,

and if there are any meaningful differences between NMN and NR.  I can't be specific (it was off the record) but

the drug companies are getting involved with these precursors.  Also, SInclair is aware of the c-60oo research

but wouldn't speak on camera about it.  Guarente is working with another more powerful resveratrol-like molecule in combination with the precursors, but would not give the name.    

[M-K]

Thorne appears to be discounted to HPN price.  Identical except for recommended dosage of 125 mg twice per day.  I'm experimenting with this regimen to see if it will alleviate mental overstimulation.

Edited by M-K, 23 May 2014 - 04:27 PM.

[midas]

Thorne appears to be discounted to HPN price.  Identical except for recommended dosage of 125 mg twice per day.  I'm experimenting with this regimen to see if it will alleviate mental overstimulation.

 

You can get the HPN for $47 and the dosage is the same for both...2 x 125mg per day.

[M-K]

 

Thorne appears to be discounted to HPN price.  Identical except for recommended dosage of 125 mg twice per day.  I'm experimenting with this regimen to see if it will alleviate mental overstimulation.

 

You can get the HPN for $47 and the dosage is the same for both...2 x 125mg per day.

 

HPN recommends 250 mg in the morning, Thorne 125 mg twice per day.  Same total, but different times.

[Phoenicis]

could you share your youtube channel?

I will be filming up at Harvard and MIT this coming month.  I will see what I can get on the record as to dosage,

and if there are any meaningful differences between NMN and NR.  I can't be specific (it was off the record) but

the drug companies are getting involved with these precursors.  Also, SInclair is aware of the c-60oo research

but wouldn't speak on camera about it.  Guarente is working with another more powerful resveratrol-like molecule in combination with the precursors, but would not give the name.    

 

[M-K]

 

Thorne appears to be discounted to HPN price.  Identical except for recommended dosage of 125 mg twice per day.  I'm experimenting with this regimen to see if it will alleviate mental overstimulation.

 

You can get the HPN for $47 and the dosage is the same for both...2 x 125mg per day.

 

Thought sure I had seen Niacel discounted to 47.99, but can't find it now.  Either it was temporary or my lower dose of Niagen isn't helping much.

[midas]

  I will see what I can get on the record as to dosage,

and if there are any meaningful differences between NMN and NR.  

 

That would be very much appreciated, thanks.

[APBT]

ORIGINAL POST:  http://www.longecity...up-buy/page-19#entry663861

 

http://www.longecity...7-major-legend/

Posted 21 May 2014 - 07:42 AM

 

On completely another totally different note/tune I have been experimenting with Niagen:

 

First tried ingesting it which didn't yield any results whatsoever so I suspected if it went via the digestion tract it probably lost too much potency, especially I am young and we already established we need equivalent of like 2 grams per day to reach the plasma levels in the research.

 

Taken it two days sublingually at stated dose ( 2 capsules), didn't feel any effects initially but the next day I was feeling very verbally fluent. As those of you who have read my previous posts, you may know i've suffered cerebral damage before which had some noticeably degradation in my overall cognitive ability, however in the past 2 days. I have been surprisingly verbally fluent, and my comprehension of certain topics seemed a lot less daunting. For example I was reading about manufacturing, like CNC milling/plastic moulding and a lot of stuff just seemed to fly apart and make sense like it did for me when I was younger, then I started reading about quantum computing and a lot of it actually made sense, now this stuff probably would have made sense before to me anyways, but it was the effortlessness of it that surprised me.

 

I also had an a consistent inflow of ideas about some products I am currently developing. Here are some thoughts I posted on facebook that I rarely would do:

 

Quote

I secretly hope quantum computing doesn't take off that quickly. The kind of breakthrough those smart science peeps are talking would have serious consequences on what already is a economically fractured and disjointed planet.

 

 ^ Better explained - organisations spend serious money on analyzing large sets of data for optimisation and creation of new algorithms from your insurance policy, every product that requires high precision engineering, google search an all the way to net flicks.As I understand it Quantum computing would allow these data sets to be exploited in ways never thought possible, now only large corporations have access to these data sets. With the previous wave of physical computational developments already creating a large global wealth gap, a massive jump in computing power like that could well just makes things go really crazy really quickly. Humans running on their caveman DNA are already barely coping with the speed of technology....

 

Creativity can move mountains, but only if you can get a handle on the day to day basics first.

 

 

Of course read the above experience with a serious grain of salt. I have always been into self improvement, and recently i've made a lot of effort into automating as many of my daily living into software and routines as possible, so my increase in effortlessness could just be a by product of that.

 

Also on the third day - today. I suddenly felt a sudden sickness, like a short fever for about 3 hours. This was very worrying to me, as the only thing I've changed about my day to day ingest is Niagen. I also take noopept, coffee, cordeyceps (is that how u spell it?), raw chocolate, reishi (in a mix) all possible confounding factors.

 

Edited by APBT, 23 May 2014 - 11:04 PM.

[M-K]

It seems pretty clear by this point that different people react differently to Niagen, by age, health, and probably other factors including dosage.  I'm theorizing that different organs fill up with NAD at different rates as well.

[Mr.No]

 

 

 

However carnosine is a difficult supplement to get into the system and the general consensus is to supplement with beta-alanine as a precursor. Beta-alanine made a difference for me. Treadmill endurance improved a good deal after a couple of weeks of daily uptake.

 

 

What data do you have to support the bold part of that statement, because I am not familiar with that.  

 

My understanding was that beta-alanine was preferred by most because it was perceived to be the rate limiting substance for carnosine formation and it is a cheaper approach to getting carnosine into the body (carnosine being more expensive than beta-alanine).

 

However, supplementation of beta alanine can induce a histidine deficiency in some people, notably those with kidney dysfunction (where histidine is already low), such that carnosine is preferred in individuals with kidney disease or any kidney related issues.

 

Thx in advance for any feedback and sorry for any thread hijacking.

 

 

 

[tunt01]

stuff

 

 

 

I saw this video previously.  Thanks for linking it for others, though.

[niner]

The "Beta Alanine Laboratory".  Oh brother.  I'm posting from the Internet Marketing BS Laboratory.  Bear in mind that CarnoSyn, the producers of that video, are selling beta alanine.  I haven't looked at the price, but I can imagine...  Anyway, I do not take carnosine in order to increase the level of carnosine in my muscle tissue.  I take it for the effects that free carnosine has, like being an anti-glycation agent.  A recent study showed that carnosine supplementation did in fact increase serum carnosine in humans, suggesting that supplementation is not entirely pointless.  I seem to have cleverly lost track of the reference, but I'll see if I can find it.  Meanwhile, if you want to increase muscle carnosine levels, which are weakly associated with muscle strength, then generic beta alanine would probably be the most economical option.

[Marty D]

Tell it like it is niner.

healthsupplementwholesalers.com carries good quality beta alanine at about fifteen dollars us for 500 grams.

http://healthsupplem...ts/beta-alanine

 

The good

"While it is popular in the weight lifting community, Beta Alanine also demonstrates an ability to assist in anaerobic running when taken regularly."

"Beta Alanine seems to have an even more pronounced effect on older adults."

 

The sale

"The effects of Beta Alanine are not only established, but quite significant. One meta-analysis of Beta Alanine suggested that the effect of Beta Alanine could have taken the last place runner in the 2008 Beijing Olympics' 1,500 m run to a bronze medal position."

 

I'd say more like last place to maybe last place without the exhaustion. And that works for me. But actually my bike rides at the time I started the supplement put my performance into a place I hadn't seen for many years. It's just easier to keep going even after reaching the point where I have to take a break and grab some oxygen.

[kenj]

Another highly miscellaneous effect possibly (?) from Niagen at 500-100mg/day: I take phenibut 500-100mg a few times/week, and lately I find myself not able to tolerate phenibut at the higher doses (~1G).

Phenibut users will recognize the "phenibut high" they can get from ~2-5+ grams. I never really took that much, but these days I get increased heart rate, and the mental phenibut/PEA 'experience'/high from just 900mg!

This is actually not something I like, so I'll have to cut pheni down to sub 500mg, or just stop it. 

 

Yeah, it could've nothing to do with taking NR, - only this phenibut potentiation began RECENTLY, and I've taken pheni on/off since 2007, IIRC.

 

Edited by kenj, 25 May 2014 - 05:35 PM.

[niner]

Another highly miscellaneous effect possibly (?) from Niagen at 500-100mg/day: I take phenibut 500-100mg a few times/week, and lately I find myself not able to tolerate phenibut at the higher doses (~1G).

Phenibut users will recognize the "phenibut high" they can get from ~2-5+ grams. I never really took that much, but these days I get increased heart rate, and the mental phenibut/PEA 'experience'/high from just 900mg!

This is actually not something I like, so I'll have to cut pheni down to sub 500mg, or just stop it. 

 

Yeah, it could've nothing to do with taking NR, - only this phenibut potentiation began RECENTLY, and I've taken pheni on/off since 2007, IIRC.

 

This is interesting... I thought that people tended to get habituated to phenibut extremely rapidly.  From the descriptions I'd seen, it sounded like a "once and you're done" sort of experience, or thereabouts.  I'm actually quite surprised to hear that you're able to take it a few times a week, even.  So you're experiencing potentiation of phenibut from NR?  Wow, I can't imagine a mechanism for that.

[LexLux]

Shin-ichiro Imai, Leonard Guarente, NAD+ and sirtuins in aging and disease,

Trends in Cell Biology, 29 April 2014, ISSN 0962-8924, http://www.sciencedi...962892414000634

 

Some points -

• NR can be converted to NMN  (NR-> NR Kinase -> NMN)
• NR boosts NAD+ " in worms and mice and can counter effects of aging 18 and 40. NR supplementation also increases mitochondrial NAD⁺ levels and stimulates SIRT3-mediated deacetylation of mitochondrial proteins [40]."
• Circadian Machinery declines with aging, results in less NAMPT and NAD+, meaning "...NMN and NR, rather than earlier NAD⁺ precursors like nicotinamide would be critical in enhancing NAD⁺ biosynthesis efficiently in aged individuals."
• Chronic inflammation could be to blame - TNF-α significantly reduces NAMPT and NAD+ and "...suppresses CLOCK/BMAL-mediated clock gene transcription in the liver and SCN of TNF-α-treated mice [43]. [...] If this is found to be true, strategies to suppress chronic inflammation and sustain NAD⁺ biosynthesis and circadian function with aging might be effective in maintaining sirtuin activity and possibly robust health [9]."
• "PARP, CD38, and the nuclear sirtuins all compete for the same pool of NAD⁺ and inhibition of PARP or CD38 has the potential to activate sirtuins. [...] A possible explanation for these findings is that aging is associated with an increase in chronic nuclear DNA damage, which leads to NAD⁺depletion by PARP (Figure 4, left). The fact that loss of SIRT1 or SIRT6 activity exacerbates DNA damage[12] may create an autocatalytic downward spiral in the nucleus, with NAD⁺ depletion as the nexus."

Edited by LexLux, 27 May 2014 - 01:57 AM.

[to age or not to age]

For those looking for a slightly better deal on NR (niagen) - tigerfitness sell the same chromadex product at

discounts if you purchase 3 or 6. It's 129 for 3 bottles and 246 for 6.

[nbourbaki]

For those looking for a slightly better deal on NR (niagen) - tigerfitness sell the same chromadex product at

discounts if you purchase 3 or 6. It's 129 for 3 bottles and 246 for 6.

 

Thanks for the heads up.  I ordered before I realized they were based in Ohio and I got hit with sales tax.  It was still less expensive than what I've been paying (outside the group buy).

 

Thanks

[Kevnzworld]

I've now increased my daily dose to 750 mg. 500 in the morning and 250 late in the afternoon .
I never " feel " anything from the supplements I take. I did try niacin once to boost my HDL bt I couldn't take the flush.
The recommended dosage of 250 mg,( however they decided on that,) didn't make me feel anything though I trusted that it might boost my NAD on a cellular level. I decided to double the dosage after a few months. I can actually say that I feel the difference . There is an alertness and energy almost like caffeine but calmer, if that makes sense. I don't drink coffee btw except for a nighttime espresso occasionally.
Lastly I believe that I have more strength when I workout. I can't define it precisely given that I've been using unfamiliar equipment in gyms given that I've been traveling in Europe up until now.
Today I began taking an additional 250 mg late in the afternoon.

[maxwatt]

Thorne discounts 50% or so*  for any purchase amount, to "health care professionals".  This includes chiropractors, acupuncturists, podiatrists, and anyone else who can show a professional certification.  Rolfers? Neurolinguistic programmers? Naturopaths? Coaches?  Anyway, at a discount, Thorne would be a good deal. 

 

However, a Chinese company is making a test batch following the Chromadex patent and will go into fermentation if the market develops.  I expect to have a sample in a month to test.  I believe within six months to a year bulk NR will be available at a reasonable price, and legally produced pills may even soon after be available from Indian pharmacies.  Check the NR group buy thread in Retailer/Product Discussion under Supplements.  There are at least two other Chinese companies working on making the real thing.

 

FWIW, I took NR for a month at recommended dose, and noticed nothing.  I am taking resveratrol, which may have masked any effect.  Also, some of us believe that to get the rejuvenation effects Sinclair noted, a dose of 3 or 4 grams would be required.  Not affordable for most of us at current prices.

 

*Don't recall, if it's 25% or 50%....

[APBT]

could you share your youtube channel?

I will be filming up at Harvard and MIT this coming month.  I will see what I can get on the record as to dosage,

and if there are any meaningful differences between NMN and NR.  I can't be specific (it was off the record) but

the drug companies are getting involved with these precursors.  Also, SInclair is aware of the c-60oo research

but wouldn't speak on camera about it.  Guarente is working with another more powerful resveratrol-like molecule in combination with the precursors, but would not give the name.    

 

 

Not his YouTube channel, but here's a link to his Website:  http://info.toageornottoage.com/

[to age or not to age]

APBT, the YouTube channel is Dylan Pappas for these excerpts, an oversight.

I will hopefully get this straight - I hope, and be able to direct people to valuable info.

 

 

[stephen_b]

I did speedwork on Monday (12x400m), and ran 6.5 miles each on Wednesday, Thursday, and Friday. Thursday was a bit speedy. I was really dragging on Friday, both from the week's effort and still recovering from my 50 miler 3 weeks ago (one of my goals in this my 50th year was to run a 50 mile trail race).

 

Late Friday afternoon, I took 250 mg of NR, half of that sublingually. I felt a pick up in energy fairly soon, and in fact had trouble falling and staying asleep that night. I took another 250 mg on Saturday run. My Saturday run was much better. I wasn't dragging and the legs felt much fresher. Saturday was also hotter at 88F compared to Friday at 81F. So for me, after a period of a couple of weeks off of NR, going back on it allowed me to see a big difference.

[LexLux]

Could it be that the NR is augmenting your circadian cycle?

[stephen_b]

Could it be that the NR is augmenting your circadian cycle?

 

I don't think so. Not more than coffee before bed does.