2266 replies to this topic

[Gingerbread Man]

Hello! Lurking for the last 3 or 4 months and decided to join and share!

 

I have been taking NR (Niagen) 300mg/day (100mg 6:00 am/2:00 pm/10:00 pm 8 hour intervals) for the last 3 months or so and it has been life changing! I injured my back in 1997 to the point where i have had a noticeable limp for the last few years. I have surgeons that want to work on parts of my back problems but none of them will touch my entire back issues. I was in pain 24/7 for years and have struggled over the same time with getting virtually no sleep, let alone REM sleep. I have also been a type 2 diabetic for over the last 16 years (I inject medications currently). My Dr. prescribed medications to help me sleep as well as muscle relaxers and pain meds to try to deal with my issues on a day to day basis. Basically I was a mess and in pain for years. Recently my Dr. doubled the dose of my statin in reaction to an issue I was having (I have been historically sensitive to any and all medications and have a long list of things I am allergic to). The double dose was seriously affecting my cognition so I began looking for things that would help me. I stumbled across a review of Niagen where it was claimed it helped this person with back pain and sleep issues. I figured what could it hurt to try it (I have tried many things in the past with limited if any success). How my body reacted has amazed me!

First time taking it at night before bed... Wow, went to sleep as normal but woke up to my alarm from the deepest sleep in YEARS (this was on a 75mg dose). I tried a few different dosing times/amounts until I settled on the 3 times/day 8 hour interval schedule. Within two weeks 75% of my back pain was gone! I still have the injuries in there, but the pain is lessened so much it's hard to believe. At this point my body started to naturally correct my walk and I could then and still now walk without a limp!! Around this time I noticed my sciatica had been greatly reduced all while my cognition was improving! I was hooked and moved to the larger 100mg dosing.

 

Cut to now, I have added in taking Ubiquinol (100mg with my morning and bedtime dose) and the changes have been so amazing to me, that it has been obvious to others around me. My mood is better, I walk without a limp, my cognition is better, my peripheral neuropathy has been greatly reduced. In fact, the sensation of feel in my feet and hands has come back from the dead cardboard feel I have had for years! I can literally feel my own fingerprints when I rub my fingers together!! there have been many other changes as well including softer skin, tightening of the skin in areas, increased rate of hair growth, virtually no cramping (muscles and assorted charliehorses (calves) that have plagued me for decades), my eyesight has improved (as measured by my surgeon (artificial lenses in both eyes) and the I still sleep very deep every night!!!

 

I am sure there is more, but I wanted to share just how amazing NR has been working for me and oh yeah... I haven't noticed any side effects!

 

EDITED to add my age: 51

Edited by Qrazy, 23 August 2016 - 01:37 PM.

[wallynext]

I'm taking 200mg a day, will increase my dosage once I fiend a not-so-pricy brand ahah, in europe qe don't have much NR sellers

[stefan_001]

..

Edited by stefan_001, 24 August 2016 - 01:32 PM.

[Daniel Cooper]

I'm taking 200mg a day, will increase my dosage once I fiend a not-so-pricy brand ahah, in europe qe don't have much NR sellers

 

 

If you find a not so pricey brand let us all know.

[adamh]

Look into niacel

[Daniscience]

What do you think of this brand new product? iHerb sells to Europe.

http://eu.iherb.com/...ggie-Caps/69377

 

It contains NR and Trans-Resveratrol seems like a win choice. Thorne Research usually makes solid products I am just waiting for some reviews or opiniones before purchasing.

[wallynext]

Nice, I will take a look into IHerb, thank you! :D

[APBT]

Reminder, please try to keep posts related to the topic title.  Discussion regarding vendors and product specifics can be posted here:  http://www.longecity...and-discussion/

[Gingerbread Man]

Some additional information regarding my recent NR usage.

 

Through my own trial and error, I have found taking 3 smaller doses spread out about 8 hours apart has worked the best for me (3 x 8 = 24 hours = relatively stable concentrations everyday, all the time). I now take 125 mg of NR and 100 mg of Ubiquinol around 6:00 am and the same again just before bed (no matter the time). I take the third NR 125 mg dose around 2:00 pm (No Ubiquinol at this time). I tend to be sensitive to medications and other things (allergic list of weird items confirms this) and have found a total of 375 mg of NR and 200 mb of Ubiquinol at these times have literally changed my life! Others may require less or more, but this has been a sweet spot for me.

 

  I did find some amazing results using L-Carnitine 500 mg when added to the pre-bedtime mix. I feel it was removing fat from areas of my body that normally don't lose much fat (think love handles) even when I diet. It also seemed to put muscle on me in a very noticeable way without working out. I could not understand what was going on, as it made no sense (NR, Ubiquinol and L-Carnitine magically removing fat and replacing with muscle). I then did some digging and found some evidence of L-carnitine working with insulin to get pushed into the muscle (my guess is like glucose does). Then it hit me, at night just before bed, the last thing I do is inject my insulin (type 2 diabetic).... I think the insulin was forcing the carnitine to work big time. The downside is my sugars were higher (I think the carnitine was utilizing some of the dosage intended for pushing the glucose) and I gained a couple of pounds quickly. Muscle weighs more than fat so I am assuming this is why. I had taken L-carnitine in the past (which is why I had some to try at night) and honestly didn't really notice anything, but that was not around a time with my insulin injections. So for now, until I can meet with my doctor I have left the L-carnitine out. this took place over about 2 weeks of using L-carnitine in the bedtime mix.

[Harkijn]

Interesting, Qrazy, thanks for sharing your story. It fits into our general impression that people with a medical condition profit more and from lower doses than basically healthy people. Do you also follow the NR(Curated) thread? At the moment there is a study under discussion, the author of which describes NR as 'nearly miraculous' in prediabetic and type2diabetic mice and in healthy people.

[Gingerbread Man]

Hi Harkijn,

 

  Yes, I do follow that thread. I actually have been following all of the NR/Niagen threads for a while prior to signing up and sharing my experiences. They have been too good for me, I had to share (the "nearly miraculous" has been all of that for me!). I have people who haven't seen me in a few months come to me and say how great I look, most think I have lost 20 lbs or more, when I have actually gained a couple.

 

  I agree, from my experience and having others that are trying it based on the changes they can see in me. It seems like over 45 and those that have health issues seem to respond the best. I have only had one other person recently start taking NR the way I do (3x day) so I will be interested to see how well they do with it.

[playground]

I have to say....  I strongly suspect at least some of the posts above are simply

marketing lies.  There appears to be no shortage of people on this 

thread and the NR Curated thread who basically dont feel anything.

And certainly dont feel charged with new vital energy.

 

Readers beware, where there's vendors making large profits, there's

a group of liars exaggerating the benefits and downplaying the dangers.

 

 

[Nate-2004]

Any anecdotal experiences attributed to NR could just as easily be attributed to something else they're doing. Anecdotes and self-experimentation are hardly science. That's why I take whatever is said in this thread, positive or negative, with a small grain of salt. I'd rather depend on a future of robust study involving replication, high sample sizes, double blindness, and peer review. We'll get a better picture of the whole thing in the next couple of years I think. Hopefully the consistency is high and the results are quite positive. 

Edited by Nate-2004, 08 September 2016 - 04:41 PM.

[playground]

Hi Nate. 

I completely agree.

In the meantime, anecdotes (and hope) are selling products.

[Nate-2004]

Hi Nate. 

I completely agree.

In the meantime, anecdotes (and hope) are selling products.

 

I know, I should really get in on that, I'm in the wrong business.

[Harkijn]

Any anecdotal experiences attributed to NR could just as easily be attributed to something else they're doing. Anecdotes and self-experimentation are hardly science. That's why I take whatever is said in this thread, positive or negative, with a small grain of salt. I'd rather depend on a future of robust study involving replication, high sample sizes, double blindness, and peer review. We'll get a better picture of the whole thing in the next couple of years I think. Hopefully the consistency is high and the results are quite positive. 

Exactly, that is why we have an Experiences thread as well as a scientific thread and a vendor topic. Qrazy did the right thing to post his experiences here!

Playground, you mentioned that some people don't 'feel' a lot. That subject was discussed in the posts you gave a reaction to.

I myself at 64 have since starting on NR felt a modest but constant surge in energy which helped me to go to the gym and exchange fat for muscles there. I am approaching sixpack now and though this was not my main goal I am feeling good about it....However, NR doesn't cure my hypotheroidie....

[Gingerbread Man]

Playground and Nate (whom BTW I love your posts, thought provoking and interesting),

 

  I don't believe half of the stuff I read on the internet and I can't speak for anyone else in this thread, but I can tell you I am a straight shooter. No marketing here, no lies here. What works for some won't work for others. I have had plenty of things I have tried over years with no success. As far as my experiences go, I can assure you there is nothing else that it can be attributed to. I was in a rut (I tend to be a rut kind of guy) and my medications/supplements had not changed for sometime before I tried the Niagen the first time. This has all happened between my Dr. visits with my next one coming up soon. Anxious to see what my Dr. thinks about all of this.

 

  I can see why others may not believe what I am saying as it is truly incredible, but those who know me and see me every day can clearly see the changes in me. Feel free to dismiss my posts, but I hope it can help someone half as much as it has helped me.

 

  Carry on.

 

EDITED:

 

  BTW, the only reason I even bought and tried Niagen was because I read a few peoples reviews who claimed it helped them with things I couldn't believe it would help them with. Afflictions that completely disrupted my quality of life (Not being able to sleep and 24/7 pain from my chronic back pain due to injuries sustained in 1997). I can tell you I am glad I read those reviews and decided to give Niagen a chance. I also attribute my changes to using Ubiquinol with Niagen as I think there is a synergistic approach to how it's working with me. I bought my first bottle, a CVS brand Age Defense bottle with 75 mg capsules in them from a local CVS store and thought there is no way this bottle, with a little old lady on the label, in the feminine products area, will do anything to help me.... I was wrong.

Edited by Qrazy, 08 September 2016 - 05:13 PM.

[stefan_001]

Playground and Nate (whom BTW I love your posts, thought provoking and interesting),

 

  I don't believe half of the stuff I read on the internet and I can't speak for anyone else in this thread, but I can tell you I am a straight shooter. No marketing here, no lies here. What works for some won't work for others. I have had plenty of things I have tried over years with no success. As far as my experiences go, I can assure you there is nothing else that it can be attributed to. I was in a rut (I tend to be a rut kind of guy) and my medications/supplements had not changed for sometime before I tried the Niagen the first time. This has all happened between my Dr. visits with my next one coming up soon. Anxious to see what my Dr. thinks about all of this.

 

  I can see why others may not believe what I am saying as it is truly incredible, but those who know me and see me every day can clearly see the changes in me. Feel free to dismiss my posts, but I hope it can help someone half as much as it has helped me.

 

  Carry on.

 

EDITED:

 

  BTW, the only reason I even bought and tried Niagen was because I read a few peoples reviews who claimed it helped them with things I couldn't believe it would help them with. Afflictions that completely disrupted my quality of life (Not being able to sleep and 24/7 pain from my chronic back pain due to injuries sustained in 1997). I can tell you I am glad I read those reviews and decided to give Niagen a chance. I also attribute my changes to using Ubiquinol with Niagen as I think there is a synergistic approach to how it's working with me. I bought my first bottle, a CVS brand Age Defense bottle with 75 mg capsules in them from a local CVS store and thought there is no way this bottle, with a little old lady on the label, in the feminine products area, will do anything to help me.... I was wrong.

Hi Qrazy, thanks for sharing your experiences. I am also using a 3 times a day dosing btw. I am combining NR with anti inflamation effect bearing supplements. I have the same experience of more muscle versus fat. It happens to be so that we had a sports day at my work and the organizing team had brought a Tanita measurement machine onsite (I know its not entirely accurate) and the Basal Metabolic Rate measurement placed me in the 31 year old age group. I am 46 years old. I dont think thats entirely a coincidence. Not sure if that happens more often but the operator of the machine only managed to say "that is really good" a couple of times.

 

For those not believing I would recommend give it a try, its not that expensive for a months supply. 

Edited by stefan_001, 08 September 2016 - 08:24 PM.

[adoado]

what about injecting it? a smaller dose would suffice i guess, any ideas??? how and where to inject???

[stefan_001]

what about injecting it? a smaller dose would suffice i guess, any ideas??? how and where to inject???

 

whats wrong with the oral supplementation, plenty proof it shows up in the blood?

[Heisok]

As far as buccal/sublingual or IV dosing: It is possible that the quick absorption methods could get a higher concentration quickly into the system. Avoiding first pass metabolism . Perhaps fast enough to ameliorate injury. There is the clinical trial that was to be giving NR to high school or maybe college football players to evaluate the effects on possible concussive injuries. I believe they are giving it orally over time. If regular dosing of NR is shown to help with traumatic type brain injuries, maybe quick acting doses could be used by emergency responders or others who administer first aid of some sort? It would then avoid  the trouble and expense of daily oral doses. Although NR is not expensive for some, the price is prohibitively high for others. Being able to take 1/4 to 1/10th the size of dose might be enough to allow some to use NR. One of the possibilities which has been discussed is that NAD+ issues are increased as one ages. It could be that in healthy adults say 30 years old taking NR is a waste. No benefit. Perhaps a quick dosing could help with injuries if that person gets hit in the head. This is all just supposition.

 

Some mention that sublingual dosing has limited absorption, but that is a non issue for one who is taking the oral form. If I were to dissolve a 125 mg capsule in my mouth, I MIGHT get some sublingual and buccal absorption and maybe even some in other areas such as the palate or throat. The balance might be absorbed like any other oral dose as it passes into the digestive tract.

 

The thread linked to below is discussing the 200 page dissertation which shows the following quote on page 106.

 

 

 

" Novel NAD+ metabolomic technologies and their
applications to Nicotinamide Riboside interventions by Samuel A.J. Trammell
University of Iowa"

 

http://www.longecity...curated/page-41

"Figure 5.9 NR contributes to muscle NAAD following IP.
Quadriceps was dissected and freeze-clamped from the same mice that contributed liver after
double labeled NR was gavaged. Quadriceps were extracted and analyzed for enrichment using
LC-MS. a. Quantitation of double labeled NR. Endogenous NR was non-quantifiable. b-c.
Isotopic enrichment of NAD+ and NADP+
 over time at both the M+1 and M+2 mass shifts. d-e.
Isotopic enrichment of Nam and MeNam over time at the M+1 mass shift. f. Isotopic enrichment
of NAAD over time at both the M+1 and M+2 mass shifts. Double labeled NR was detected in
muscle following IP injection, meaning NR does circulate to muscle intact. As observed with
gavage, NR contributed to NAAD only as Nam and poorly increased NAD+ compared to liver IP.
Together, the data suggest NR may be mainly metabolized through first pass metabolism by
liver."

[Harkijn]

As far as buccal/sublingual or IV dosing: It is possible that the quick absorption methods could get a higher concentration quickly into the system. Avoiding first pass metabolism . Perhaps fast enough to ameliorate injury. There is the clinical trial that was to be giving NR to high school or maybe college football players to evaluate the effects on possible concussive injuries. I believe they are giving it orally over time. If regular dosing of NR is shown to help with traumatic type brain injuries, maybe quick acting doses could be used by emergency responders or others who administer first aid of some sort? It would then avoid  the trouble and expense of daily oral doses. Although NR is not expensive for some, the price is prohibitively high for others. Being able to take 1/4 to 1/10th the size of dose might be enough to allow some to use NR. One of the possibilities which has been discussed is that NAD+ issues are increased as one ages. It could be that in healthy adults say 30 years old taking NR is a waste. No benefit. Perhaps a quick dosing could help with injuries if that person gets hit in the head. This is all just supposition.

 

Some mention that sublingual dosing has limited absorption, but that is a non issue for one who is taking the oral form. If I were to dissolve a 125 mg capsule in my mouth, I MIGHT get some sublingual and buccal absorption and maybe even some in other areas such as the palate or throat. The balance might be absorbed like any other oral dose as it passes into the digestive tract.

 

The thread linked to below is discussing the 200 page dissertation which shows the following quote on page 106.

 

 

 

" Novel NAD+ metabolomic technologies and their
applications to Nicotinamide Riboside interventions by Samuel A.J. Trammell
University of Iowa"

 

http://www.longecity...curated/page-41

"Figure 5.9 NR contributes to muscle NAAD following IP.
Quadriceps was dissected and freeze-clamped from the same mice that contributed liver after
double labeled NR was gavaged. Quadriceps were extracted and analyzed for enrichment using
LC-MS. a. Quantitation of double labeled NR. Endogenous NR was non-quantifiable. b-c.
Isotopic enrichment of NAD+ and NADP+
 over time at both the M+1 and M+2 mass shifts. d-e.
Isotopic enrichment of Nam and MeNam over time at the M+1 mass shift. f. Isotopic enrichment
of NAAD over time at both the M+1 and M+2 mass shifts. Double labeled NR was detected in
muscle following IP injection, meaning NR does circulate to muscle intact. As observed with
gavage, NR contributed to NAAD only as Nam and poorly increased NAD+ compared to liver IP.
Together, the data suggest NR may be mainly metabolized through first pass metabolism by
liver."

Heisok, thanks for your well informed post. Just one thing, some readers might deduce from your words that it cannot  hurt to open NR capsules and dissolve them under the tongue. However, be  aware that capsules contain a lot of fillers and excipients. Of these additions some particles could be breathed in with daily use. Elsewhere in these forums the dangers of this were discussed and IIRC the only safe sublingual approach is to obtain pure NRpowder (or obviously buy sublingual tablets if available).

[ironfistx]

To the comment that said people on the supplement would be more likely to get tendonitis because they are active, my activity didn't change from the time I started it to the time I stopped it.  I just noticed that I apparently was getting tendon pain while I was on it.

[Bryan_S]

Still beware of sublingual administration with products containing silicon dioxide which is powdered glass or whats called powdered silica. If you're vender uses this excipitant be aware that it is not suitable for this application. Do not risk inhalation of this material.

[adoado]

http://alivebynature...optimum-dosage/

 

new research, they have found out, 300mg and 1000mg does not make too much difference in the body for levels of nad+

[jeffrg]

I've also experienced tendonitis since taking NR (250mg) & Pterostilbene (50mg) daily.  I wasn't sure if I should attribute it to that or not, but figured I should report it.  I'm also not sure if the get up from sleep pain is something to worry about or not.  If it is causing me any discomfort beyond a second or two as I get up, I take an anti-inflammatory (Meloxicam) and it goes away.  I can live with a little discomfort if overall it's improving my health, that is if it is one of these that is causing it (Pterostilbene more likely?).  Thoughts?  No pain no gain or should I be worried and stop taking it?  I take them as a single pill (Elysium Basis).

[smithx]

Pterostilbene is related to resveratrol, and I had to stop taking resveratrol because of tendon issues (I was practicing kung fu quite actively at the time, so any weakening of tendons was very noticable).

 

 

I've also experienced tendonitis since taking NR (250mg) & Pterostilbene (50mg) daily.  I wasn't sure if I should attribute it to that or not, but figured I should report it.  I'm also not sure if the get up from sleep pain is something to worry about or not.  If it is causing me any discomfort beyond a second or two as I get up, I take an anti-inflammatory (Meloxicam) and it goes away.  I can live with a little discomfort if overall it's improving my health, that is if it is one of these that is causing it (Pterostilbene more likely?).  Thoughts?  No pain no gain or should I be worried and stop taking it?  I take them as a single pill (Elysium Basis).

 

[smithx]

Another anecdote:

 

I was recently hiking at over 9000 feet with my wife who is 20 years younger than me (she's 38). She started experiencing symptoms of altitude sickness but I felt fine.

 

4 years ago, before I started taking NR we went to Mauna Kea visitor center which is at about the same altitude. She had no problem then and I experienced symptoms of altitude sickness.

 

We are both in good physical training condition and are not overweight (ok maybe 5 lbs or so).

 

Other possible (non NR) explanations:

- Before hiking at over 9000 ft, we had spent 4 nights at over 6000 feet on the recent trip. When we went to Mauna Kea we went directly from sea level. So it could be that I'm better able to make more red blood cells given a few days than she is, for completely unrelated reasons.

- Besides the NR, I have also been taking NAC, forskolin and honokiol lately, and recently added PQQ so any of those or all of them together could be responsible partly or fully

 

I can say that I seem to have more energy lately, whatever the reason.

 

Dosing

- Lunchtime: 250mg of NR plus 50mg of forskolin

- Evening: 1800mg NAC plus 720mg honokiol

 

This is in addition to my usual set of supplements, which I can note on request.

 

 

 

Edited by smithx, 15 September 2016 - 06:09 AM.

[Nate-2004]

 

Pterostilbene is related to resveratrol, and I had to stop taking resveratrol because of tendon issues (I was practicing kung fu quite actively at the time, so any weakening of tendons was very noticable).

 

 

I've also experienced tendonitis since taking NR (250mg) & Pterostilbene (50mg) daily.  I wasn't sure if I should attribute it to that or not, but figured I should report it.  I'm also not sure if the get up from sleep pain is something to worry about or not.  If it is causing me any discomfort beyond a second or two as I get up, I take an anti-inflammatory (Meloxicam) and it goes away.  I can live with a little discomfort if overall it's improving my health, that is if it is one of these that is causing it (Pterostilbene more likely?).  Thoughts?  No pain no gain or should I be worried and stop taking it?  I take them as a single pill (Elysium Basis).

 

 

I would like to see a more statistical scientific review involving a large sample size focused on this experience to rule out coincidence. It could just be coincidence that some people have tendonitis or a flair up around the same time they happen to take NR. If a statistically significant number of people in a controlled study report tendonitis compared to those with placebo, then we have a true link and can investigate the mechanism of action.

[Bryan_S]

 

I would like to see a more statistical scientific review involving a large sample size focused on this experience to rule out coincidence. It could just be coincidence that some people have tendonitis or a flair up around the same time they happen to take NR. If a statistically significant number of people in a controlled study report tendonitis compared to those with placebo, then we have a true link and can investigate the mechanism of action.

 

 

It could also be that people feel like they have a little more energy and knowingly or unknowingly exert themselves just that much harder.

 

Take it from a member of the "Broken Bone Club" 6300 skydives and more pounding to my lower extremities than the average man will ever see. At some point you just have to scale your activities back and accept your limits. "Oh no he said it!"

 

Now this threshold, this limit is different for all of us. For me I've asked a lot out of my stem cells regenerative abilities with repeated injuries and incomplete recovery times between episodes. Comparatively an average man my age could easily walk 5 or more miles without a second thought. I too can complete the same distance but I won't see the same recovery time and if I repeat the same activity too soon I'll produce some inflammation.

 

Now with a self induced disability I'm not looking for pity and I know I'm likely an extreme case. I've lived life hard and done things most people can't imagine. For me NR has increased my recovery time from the simpler activities and I'm still flying in the air but I still have to scale my activities to the rate at which body recovers.

 

Feeling better and being better are 2 different things. So take it from a guy who was a Sports trainer and LMT for 16-years. Its not all just black and white, if something hurts and you continue to hurt it eventually the condition worsens.

 

I'll close with a warning. Anti-inflammatories are great but they also help hide issues. This also includes liniments like DMSO. NR can help hasten this recovery period but it isn't the cause of the condition. B3's have been shown to reduce inflammation not increase it. Its prudent to give an injury more rest than we typically do and this is likely the root of this issue. Common sense right, I've been the biggest offender.

 

As always JMHO