2266 replies to this topic

[Bryan_S]

This is a postscript to my last post:

 

Sorry I didn't mean to minimize anyones pain. Hope my post didn't come off as insensitive, which in re-reading it might have. So I apologize.

 

I come from the creed "if you're going to be stupid you better be tough." We can seem like a rather insensitive group as a whole. Just keep in mind we understand the underpinnings of why we do these things to ourselves because we bare the wounds of our own stupidity. We also take no enjoyment in the suffering or pain of others but we do try and own our own mistakes and manage the outcomes.

 

I'm a firm believer in RICE. It is the acronym meaning Rest, Ice, Compression and Elevation. In sports an ice bath for an ankle or foot is a common tool to manage pain and swelling. Acute Soft Tissue Injuries generally cause some degree of swelling sometimes visible sometimes not. This is generally considered a good thing because it makes the area more sensitive to pain and movement and we adjust our behavior therefor protecting the area.

 

Now with the use of ICE, compression, elevation, and anti-inflammatories we can trick ourselves into thinking we are better (healed) and re-injure an area. I think many of us realize this deep down but would like to blame other things to our slowed recovery than ourselves and our slowing regenerative metabolism which we feel helpless against. Time (rest) is the factor most of us remove from the equation and don't allow enough of and as we get older it takes longer for an area to heal.

 

What I don't talk much about is I keep a large Chattanooga Ice Pack ready that is 11x14 inch at hand at all times. If I've had an especially long day I'll wrap a foot and ankle and prop it up for 20 minutes max. Cold treatments need monitoring so limit your exposure to no more than 20 minutes and take care to not freeze your skin. If it hurts put a layer of paper towel between the pack and your skin. All the NR in the world isn't going to manage the pain if I've overdone it. This is the self management part and I do it regularly as needed.

 

So its up to us to manage an area and how much activity this area can take before needing rest. Its even harder to say to ones self "I don't think I can do that anymore." Because some injuries where connective tissue is stretched or torn may never fully recover or may be forever prone to re-injury. So pain sometimes is the only thing we will listen to in correcting bad behaviors or telling us when to back off.

 

I live a life of mitigating pain, so I'm not taking an arrogant stance against those who complain but one of sharing ways to manage the days ahead. This is why I'm here on these forums to seek solutions for myself and offer things I've found to work.

 

So this was my premise and sorry if the finger of judgment touched anyone. Its up to all of us to be honest and real to ourselves, manage our treatments and make judgments as to our own physical abilities and of course seek the advice or treatment of a doctor or Physical Therapist if we need help regaining ground.

 

So if not everyone here has seen my posts I view NR as a tool not a cure all. I also don't see it in the longevity sense as many others do. To me its a way to extend some aspects of health and it may or may not extend my life span.

 

Didn't mean to bring the thread to a halt.

As always JMHO

Edited by Bryan_S, 17 September 2016 - 07:49 AM.

[BigLabRat]

I haven't had joint/tendon problems since starting Niagen, but I don't dismiss the possibility. But I also acknowledge that such problems might emerge from overexertion encouraged by Niagen--or by some other culprit. Few of us on this forum are taking just Niagen.

 

At the risk of sidetracking the discussion, or advocating something often labeled as pseudoscience, I had a rotator cuff problem a couple of years back that refused to heal until I tried prolotherapy. Prolotherapy consists of injections around the joints/tendons/ligaments. It usually uses some slightly irritating substance. (I received dextrose/salt solution for a while, and later had ozone injections.)

 

The goal is to encourage inflammation in the area. That may seem counterintuitive, but the big problem with healing cartilagenous tissues is the low blood flow. Repair is thus exceeding slow.

 

Anti-inflammatories may ease the pain, but they may the opposite of what the body needs. Inflammation may not be a side effect of the injury, but an essential part of the healing process.

[Nate-2004]

I haven't had joint/tendon problems since starting Niagen, but I don't dismiss the possibility. But I also acknowledge that such problems might emerge from overexertion encouraged by Niagen--or by some other culprit. Few of us on this forum are taking just Niagen.

 

At the risk of sidetracking the discussion, or advocating something often labeled as pseudoscience, I had a rotator cuff problem a couple of years back that refused to heal until I tried prolotherapy. Prolotherapy consists of injections around the joints/tendons/ligaments. It usually uses some slightly irritating substance. (I received dextrose/salt solution for a while, and later had ozone injections.)

 

The goal is to encourage inflammation in the area. That may seem counterintuitive, but the big problem with healing cartilagenous tissues is the low blood flow. Repair is thus exceeding slow.

 

Anti-inflammatories may ease the pain, but they may the opposite of what the body needs. Inflammation may not be a side effect of the injury, but an essential part of the healing process.

 

Not true at all. Yes inflammation is the result of attempts to heal but not part of the process, just an effect of the process. I used to think this until I asked my doctor this same question and she said that was a common misconception. Once it is inflamed that means what's needed is being done, the anti-inflammatories are there to reduce the awful the side effects of that process (inflammation).

[BigLabRat]

Well, our doctors disagree.

 

Mind you, my doctor was not claiming that all inflammation is good. She was claiming it speeds healing in tendons and joints where blood flow is normally restricted.

 

As I said, it is widely dismissed as ineffective. Most studies that show effects are too small for significant statistics, and most larger studies have been designed to show that it is ineffective. And many people swear by it.

 

In other words, it's sort of like dietary supplements.

 

(Disclaimer: It hurts. A lot. Each session consisted of 16 shots into the shoulder joint from different angles, fitting the needle between the bones. And the increased pain from the inflammation isn't nice. But in a few days I could raise my arm over my head--after not being able to bring my arm above shoulder level for over a year.)

[Nate-2004]

Swelling is a normal reaction of the body to an injury. Sometimes, though, the body goes overboard, and the inflammatory response is excessive and can actually begin to cause more damage than good.

 

There's a lot of sites, however, supporting your position, but I can't find any that aren't just blogs without references. My doctor holds the above linked position, that yes, inflammation is good up to a point, but ultimately does more harm than good if it isn't kept under control and that it's only a side effect of cells rushing to the injury to fight off infection and begin healing. Think of it like allergies, they're an over reactive immune response to harmless substances. Evolution is hardly perfect.

Edited by Nate-2004, 17 September 2016 - 08:15 PM.

[Bryan_S]

I'm listening to the new Paradigm Shift but thought it might be too soon to drop this bomb. Even as I repeat the sports medicine we've been taught for the last 50-years, there are some differing opinions "today" on approaching acute vs. chronic inflammation that should be considered. I'm no longer as quick to throw NSAIDs at an issue as I once was. Even icing an injury directly following impact or connective tissue tearing is being challenged. But I do believe a point is reached when inflammation will compromise circulation even if at first it brings added blood flow to tendon and cartilage. So since you guys want to elude to the as yet un-accepted medical viewpoint here is pandoras box for all to read. Let's just hope we can keep the conversation relevant to NR.

 

http://physicalthera...uries-part-1-2/

 

http://physicalthera...es-part-2-of-2/

 

So even with posting both viewpoints I still believe in managing inflammation and for me NR is part of that. If an area is allowed to engorge in too much fluid/edema, I believe swelling can damage surrounding tissues if allowed to persist. I've seen this in the lower extremities where lymphatic flow begins to diminish and gravity holds sway. If allowed to persist for to long the interconnecting matrix of supporting connective tissue becomes stretched. I've seen this lead to persistent problems. I know of several individuals who feel chronic hydraulic issues from fluid that just won't clear from an area. I was one such individual.

 

So there are 2 sides to this coin. For acute conditions I've seen rest, ice compression and elevation get people on their feet and resume active lives faster than doing nothing. If this practice needs to be mediated to allow an area to remodel itself I'm all for refining this practice but chronic inflammation is something we see all through medicine effecting everything from cardiac issues to joints.

 

So for me NR has made an improvement in getting me back on my feet with chronic inflammation and keeping me there. Its not a standalone player but part of an entire regiment. When you are battling joint and tendon issues regularly you find the thing's that work. Part of this is getting back on ones feet because our lymphatic system needs the mechanical activity of muscular contractions to move fluids out of the engorged tissue spaces.

 

If the issues surrounding NSAIDs are half as bad as the aforementioned article suggests we need more options in our tool kits like NR.

 

Some of you may remember I posted an article demonstrating an increase in Nicotinamide Riboside Kinase 2 after muscle injury. You've got to scratch your head and ask why? Why would these injured and supporting tissues ramp up production of NMRK2 because we all know our cells do not waste resources unless they serve a purpose. To me it clearly reads there is cell signaling going on and the message says; "send me your NAD precursors so we can repair the injury." So I think injured tissues elicit the help of surrounding tissues. It might be early to say these things but I think more study will tease this out.

 

So as my feelings on NSAIDs sour I'm going to suggest these pills may be part of this issue we are discussing with continuing joint and tendon pain. 

 

Again as always JMHO

Edited by Bryan_S, 18 September 2016 - 06:23 AM.

[Harkijn]

Bringing the discussion slightly closer back to NR: since taking it I have been able to bring my heart rate above 160 on cardiomachines for longer and longer periods. However, the kneejoints in this 64 years old body warn me that moderation is key. Sofar only small aches and pains, I plan to keep it that way.

[stefan_001]

Ran into this, thought it fits to this area. Nate I think you have been wondering about impact on appearence, I would say there is some hope if the pics are real:

 

http://www.timelessl...ure-comparison/

 

Edited by stefan_001, 18 September 2016 - 08:08 AM.

[BigLabRat]

 

There's a lot of sites, however, supporting your position, but I can't find any that aren't just blogs without references.

 

 

As I said, evidence is limited and studies are small. But there's certainly more than blogs. There's the Journal of Prolotherapy. Also a review article in Am. J of Sports Medicine.

 

Also search on "New York Times" & "prolotherapy" for an article of some interest.

 

I'll shut up on the issue now.

Stefan, thanks for that link. The photos are interesting--although ever since Photoshop I'm suspicious of photos.

 

But what an interesting site!

[stefan_001]

There's a lot of sites, however, supporting your position, but I can't find any that aren't just blogs without references.

As I said, evidence is limited and studies are small. But there's certainly more than blogs. There's the Journal of Prolotherapy. Also a review article in Am. J of Sports Medicine.

Also search on "New York Times" & "prolotherapy" for an article of some interest.

I'll shut up on the issue now.

Stefan, thanks for that link. The photos are interesting--although ever since Photoshop I'm suspicious of photos.

But what an interesting site!

Welcome! Because of the site content and because there is no obvious product sales (unless its secretely Chromadex run and thus in hidden way stimulate nicotinamide riboside sales in general....) I am inclined to believe they are not Photoshopped.I zoomed them as much as possible and didnt see weird texture. But I have not more experience than microsoft paint and the editor in powerpoint......

Edited by stefan_001, 18 September 2016 - 06:12 PM.

[Empiricus]

I should have subscribed to this threat a long time ago.  Anyway, here I described my 2 weeks on NR, which included positive experiences: 

 

I began concentrating easily and feeling well-rested and alert throughout the day, basically operating at a much higher level. In fact, it would be difficult to exaggerate the improvement. By way of supplements, I was taking nothing else likely to account for the upgrade in my performance. Only thing I took consistently was NR on an empty stomach at night and/or in the morning (sublingual when taking only 125 mg/day).

 

To anyone inclined to write off the positive experiences reported on this thread as "marketing hype," I wasn't exaggerating when I wrote, "on the whole, the positive results I was getting met or exceeded the most positive reports I've seen reported for NR at such low doses over such a short time."  That is to say, the NR hype doesn't surprise me. During my 2 weeks on NR I experienced remarkable results.

 

Unfortunately, sole-of-the-foot pain began during the same time. I describe here how that pain has persisted for the past 2.5 months since my two weeks on NR.   I'm not the only person on this forum to have reported sole-of-feet pain while on NR:

• smithx:  "After about 3 1/2 months I started to experience connective tissue pain in my hands and feet." http://www.longecity...ndpost&p=751498
• Brainfart:  "I had a pain in the 5th metatarsal on the outside of my foot, and it lasted for several days. I'm only on a 100 mg in the morning, from LEF's  NAD+ Cell Regenerator.  It's unfortunate because I was really enjoying the energy."  http://www.longecity...ndpost&p=718705
• Ms02138:  "I'm not 100% convinced my foot and ankle pain is related to the NR but it is striking how many of the 55-60 year old users have mentioned tendonitis." http://www.longecity...ndpost&p=721716
• Ironfistx: "After not taking any niagen for a few weeks I decided to try one capsule today.  Later in the evening the pain I've been having in my foot came back more than it has bothered me in weeks.  It is like the bottom of my foot is stretching or scraping when I walk which could be planatar fascitiis.  I'm not saying the niagen is acusing it but it seems to bother me mor ewhen I take it." http://www.longecity...ndpost&p=727159

I'm curious how the others are coping.  If they have continued NR, how has it gone?   

 

Does anyone have suggestions for countering the painful soles-of-feet issue? It's been hypothesized by Turnbuckle to be hyperuricemia or drug induced gout (niacin, a cousin of NR, causes gout in some people). See link here.  Another hypothesis advanced by newgenduder, is "foot pain/inflammation symptoms [in NR users] may be due to the fact that nicotinamide increases histamine  http://www.ncbi.nlm....pubmed/23426511."  I just came across his post today. The dude might be on to something.  

 

I don't know if my foot pain is connected to the tendon issues or not.  I wasn't taking pterostilbene at the time (pterostilbene, as has been noted here, is related to resveratrol, which is associated with tendon issues).  Anyway, my tendons are fine. It's just the soles of my feet.

 

Someone suggested I give NR a longer try, maybe 2 months, and I'm wondering if that is too risky (might it cause irreversible gout progression?) or not.  I'd particularly like to hear about the experiences of anyone who has persisted with NR in spite of soles-of-feet pain. 

Edited by Empiricus, 26 September 2016 - 08:31 AM.

[Bryan_S]

 

Unfortunately, sole-of-the-foot pain began during the same time. I describe here how that pain has persisted for the past 2.5 months since my two weeks on NR.   I'm not the only person on this forum to have reported sole-of-feet pain while on NR:

 

Someone suggested I give NR a longer try, maybe 2 months, and I'm wondering if that is too risky (might it cause irreversible gout progression?) or not.  I'd particularly like to hear about the experiences of anyone who has persisted with NR in spite of soles-of-feet pain. 

 

I followed your link to the other page so I'll follow that for a minute.

 

Have you seen a doctor? Gout requires a medical diagnosis with Lab tests or imaging often required. Gout is caused by an accumulation of uric acid. If “diagnosed” DO NOT take niacin if you have a history of gout. I've read "When doses of over 3 grams per day of niacin are taken, more serious side effects can happen. These include liver problems, gout, ulcers of the digestive tract. Sometimes behavioral modification such as diet, exercise, and decreased intake of alcohol to help minimize the frequency of attacks."

 

So have you seen a doctor? What kind of work are you doing? Are you on your feet much? Are you over 50-years old? When did you first experience gout? How much are you drinking? Don't answer these questions here but I would take these questions up with your doctor.

 

I’ve had a history of taking NSAIDs and these are known to reduce kidney function. This was a motivator for me to reduce my intake. So if you are like me read this warning. “Gout is a painful form of inflammatory arthritis that occurs in the setting of hyperuricemic monosodium urate crystals deposited in joints and tissues. Almost 40% of patients with gout have chronic kidney disease (CKD). Incidence of gout increases as kidney function decreases.”

 

Here are some links.

http://www.clinicala...article/315693/

http://rheumatology..../44/9/1090.full

NR isn’t a cure all we still need to be mindful of existing conditions and not ignore them.

As always JMHO hope you find relief.

Edited by Bryan_S, 26 September 2016 - 08:32 AM.

[lourdaud]

Taking both c60oo and Niagen - yes or no?

[Black Fox]

I should have subscribed to this threat a long time ago. Anyway, here I described my 2 weeks on NR, which included positive experiences:

I began concentrating easily and feeling well-rested and alert throughout the day, basically operating at a much higher level. In fact, it would be difficult to exaggerate the improvement. By way of supplements, I was taking nothing else likely to account for the upgrade in my performance. Only thing I took consistently was NR on an empty stomach at night and/or in the morning (sublingual when taking only 125 mg/day).

To anyone inclined to write off the positive experiences reported on this thread as "marketing hype," I wasn't exaggerating when I wrote, "on the whole, the positive results I was getting met or exceeded the most positive reports I've seen reported for NR at such low doses over such a short time." That is to say, the NR hype doesn't surprise me. During my 2 weeks on NR I experienced remarkable results.

Unfortunately, sole-of-the-foot pain began during the same time. I describe here how that pain has persisted for the past 2.5 months since my two weeks on NR. I'm not the only person on this forum to have reported sole-of-feet pain while on NR:

• smithx: "After about 3 1/2 months I started to experience connective tissue pain in my hands and feet." http://www.longecity...ndpost&p=751498
• Brainfart: "I had a pain in the 5th metatarsal on the outside of my foot, and it lasted for several days. I'm only on a 100 mg in the morning, from LEF's NAD+ Cell Regenerator. It's unfortunate because I was really enjoying the energy." http://www.longecity...ndpost&p=718705
• Ms02138: "I'm not 100% convinced my foot and ankle pain is related to the NR but it is striking how many of the 55-60 year old users have mentioned tendonitis." http://www.longecity...ndpost&p=721716
• Ironfistx: "After not taking any niagen for a few weeks I decided to try one capsule today. Later in the evening the pain I've been having in my foot came back more than it has bothered me in weeks. It is like the bottom of my foot is stretching or scraping when I walk which could be planatar fascitiis. I'm not saying the niagen is acusing it but it seems to bother me mor ewhen I take it." http://www.longecity...ndpost&p=727159

I'm curious how the others are coping. If they have continued NR, how has it gone?

Does anyone have suggestions for countering the painful soles-of-feet issue? It's been hypothesized by Turnbuckle to be hyperuricemia or drug induced gout (niacin, a cousin of NR, causes gout in some people). See link here. Another hypothesis advanced by newgenduder, is "foot pain/inflammation symptoms [in NR users] may be due to the fact that nicotinamide increases histamine http://www.ncbi.nlm....pubmed/23426511." I just came across his post today. The dude might be on to something.

I don't know if my foot pain is connected to the tendon issues or not. I wasn't taking pterostilbene at the time (pterostilbene, as has been noted here, is related to resveratrol, which is associated with tendon issues). Anyway, my tendons are fine. It's just the soles of my feet.

Someone suggested I give NR a longer try, maybe 2 months, and I'm wondering if that is too risky (might it cause irreversible gout progression?) or not. I'd particularly like to hear about the experiences of anyone who has persisted with NR in spite of soles-of-feet pain.

If you are taking C60oo along with NR as I belive.... You should be careful as both interact with stem cells. This is a study published by @Bryan_S at NR's thread on how NAD+ improves stem cells function.
http://www.ncbi.nlm....pubmed/27127236

This study concerns about the interactions between water soluble C60-PVP and NADH(or NAD+). It appears that this interaction may generate O2-(superoxides), but may also produce other reactive species which are concerning
http://www.ncbi.nlm....pubmed/11082711

I dunno much about it but if I were you I'd be careful of taking both... And keep in mind C60OO stays in your body for long periods of time despite of long washout periods

Edited by Black Fox, 26 September 2016 - 10:35 AM.

[Empiricus]

Taking both c60oo and Niagen - yes or no?

 

When I started the NR I had been off c60oo for two weeks.  On the 7th day of my NR trial I took another dose of c60oo.  On the 9th day I continued NR for 6 more days.  

 

As I described here, after being off c60 for 2 weeks, I took 125-250 mg daily of NR and little else for 6 days and felt incredibly alert and energetic and needed hardly any sleep. I was absolutely astounded. On the whole, the positive results I was getting met or exceeded the most positive reports I've seen reported for NR at such low doses over such a short time. I experienced some foot pain, however.

 

I discontinued NR on the 6th day and evening took PQQ that evening. Next morning I took 2mg of C60.  On the evening of the 9th day I took about 60 mg of NR sublingually.  Woke up with sore feet.  From day 10 to 14, I took 125-250 mg of NR.  The foot pain issue worsened considerably and all the positive benefits I had experienced the previous week were greatly diminished, at times hardly perceptible. On evening of day 14, I took PQQ before a run in the evening. On morning of day 15 I felt agitated and couldn't focus.

 

I suspect the c60 may have had something to do with the much diminished effects of NR I experienced in week 2. 

 

http://www.longecity...ndpost&p=789036

Edited by Empiricus, 26 September 2016 - 01:48 PM.

[ironfistx]

I had always heard inflammation was good, as it brings all the good stuff to the injury.  But then they say that inflammation can kind of go unmanaged and cause more concerns.  I had tendonitis of the shoulder that hurt regularly until I started doing ice massage.  It still took more than half a year to stop hurting but that helped a lot.  To clarify, ice massage does not mean using an ice pack.  It means using a cup of ice and applying it directly to the skin after peeling the top of the cup back.

 

I have heard that ice is good because it lowers inflammation but when you stop it makes the blood rush back into the area which promotes repair of injury.  Hi BigLabRat, where did you get prolotherapy?

 

For my foot pain I did ice massage and golf ball massage because I happened to have a golf ball in my stuff.

[Nate-2004]

After watching Brain Games season 3 episode 1 where they pit younger brains against older brains, I'm realizing that at least on the level discussed in the show, I've not gotten any younger on any of the points. You can find the show on Netflix.  So is NR reversing age? Unlikely, at least not in these areas of reaction time, processing multiple things at once, and in fact my hearing is worse than it should be for my age.

 

If you don't have Netflix, try thepiratebay.

 

 

EDIT: Scratch that part about the hearing. Either something was wrong with that Netflix show or I was totally wrong about my hearing or both actually is the case I think.  It's actually improved pretty dramatically, because in the first video below, which I've watched before, I could not hear anything above 12,000 a year ago.

 

I can hear the 17,000hz with headphones on in the following video and I'm 42:

 

 

I think I'm going to have them fully tested by a pro and see what's up but I also heard it in this video, but could not hear it in 18,0000hz

 

Edited by Nate-2004, 29 September 2016 - 05:30 AM.

[Harkijn]

I should have subscribed to this threat a long time ago.  Anyway, here I described my 2 weeks on NR, which included positive experiences: 

 

I began concentrating easily and feeling well-rested and alert throughout the day, basically operating at a much higher level. In fact, it would be difficult to exaggerate the improvement. By way of supplements, I was taking nothing else likely to account for the upgrade in my performance. Only thing I took consistently was NR on an empty stomach at night and/or in the morning (sublingual when taking only 125 mg/day).

 

To anyone inclined to write off the positive experiences reported on this thread as "marketing hype," I wasn't exaggerating when I wrote, "on the whole, the positive results I was getting met or exceeded the most positive reports I've seen reported for NR at such low doses over such a short time."  That is to say, the NR hype doesn't surprise me. During my 2 weeks on NR I experienced remarkable results.

 

Unfortunately, sole-of-the-foot pain began during the same time. I describe here how that pain has persisted for the past 2.5 months since my two weeks on NR.   I'm not the only person on this forum to have reported sole-of-feet pain while on NR:

• smithx:  "After about 3 1/2 months I started to experience connective tissue pain in my hands and feet." http://www.longecity...ndpost&p=751498
• Brainfart:  "I had a pain in the 5th metatarsal on the outside of my foot, and it lasted for several days. I'm only on a 100 mg in the morning, from LEF's  NAD+ Cell Regenerator.  It's unfortunate because I was really enjoying the energy."  http://www.longecity...ndpost&p=718705
• Ms02138:  "I'm not 100% convinced my foot and ankle pain is related to the NR but it is striking how many of the 55-60 year old users have mentioned tendonitis." http://www.longecity...ndpost&p=721716
• Ironfistx: "After not taking any niagen for a few weeks I decided to try one capsule today.  Later in the evening the pain I've been having in my foot came back more than it has bothered me in weeks.  It is like the bottom of my foot is stretching or scraping when I walk which could be planatar fascitiis.  I'm not saying the niagen is acusing it but it seems to bother me mor ewhen I take it." http://www.longecity...ndpost&p=727159

I'm curious how the others are coping.  If they have continued NR, how has it gone?   

 

Does anyone have suggestions for countering the painful soles-of-feet issue? It's been hypothesized by Turnbuckle to be hyperuricemia or drug induced gout (niacin, a cousin of NR, causes gout in some people). See link here.  Another hypothesis advanced by newgenduder, is "foot pain/inflammation symptoms [in NR users] may be due to the fact that nicotinamide increases histamine  http://www.ncbi.nlm....pubmed/23426511."  I just came across his post today. The dude might be on to something.  

 

I don't know if my foot pain is connected to the tendon issues or not.  I wasn't taking pterostilbene at the time (pterostilbene, as has been noted here, is related to resveratrol, which is associated with tendon issues).  Anyway, my tendons are fine. It's just the soles of my feet.

 

Someone suggested I give NR a longer try, maybe 2 months, and I'm wondering if that is too risky (might it cause irreversible gout progression?) or not.  I'd particularly like to hear about the experiences of anyone who has persisted with NR in spite of soles-of-feet pain. 

On the Curated thread I posted today about yet another thread about pathogens that eat NAD+. Following through that line of thought: it might very well be that NR is not a direct contributor to tendonitis etc.The fact that NAD+levels get higher causes there to be more food for a slumbering pathogen in joints or tendons. Just a thought of course, but perhaps the more prudent approach is to stop taking NR until thhe underlying issue is solved..

[Nate-2004]

So over the past week I began experiencing cramps in various muscle groups, biceps, forearms, calves, quads, etc. Cramps as in easily cramped if I move in various ways that I was able to move just fine before. I don't know if cramps = tendonitis nor can I honestly attribute this to NR without taking the rest of my stack into consideration. So I'll be narrowing it down for a bit, ruling out everything. I'll stay on the NR till last. May take a couple of months to determine but I'd like to know if cramps have anything to do with the tendonitis people are referencing. There is zero intestinal cramping however, just muscles.

Edited by Nate-2004, 04 October 2016 - 08:27 PM.

[playground]

Hi Nate,

 

Have you been eating a low carb diet recently ?

It's quite typical for people who try Atkins or a ketogenic diet that they complain of

muscle cramps.  I have been having this problem frequently since early July when

I began my ketogenic diet.

 

The solutions to this cramp problem are:

(1) take approx 100mg to 200mg of magnesium citrate in your teas/coffees/water

during the day  (really high bio-availability with magnesium citrate)

(2) take "Jigsaw Magnesium" supplements - they are slow release and are really effective...

you'll find them on ebay and amazon and doubtless other places too.

(Jigsaw Magnesium, in my experience, works extremely well... and no, i'm not

a paid shill and i'm not an affiliate)

 

Often, keto dieters and Atkins dieters report muscle cramps and constipation.

It turns out that low magnesium levels can cause constipation too, especially

if your diet is rich in: dairy products, nuts or brassicas (kale, broccoli, cauliflower).

In that order (dairy, nuts, brassicas)

 

Whether or not you're deliberately eating a low carb diet, you might be suffering

low magnesium either through 'accidental' low carb eating or because you're

drinking alcohol or taking some other diuretic that results in magnesium loss.

So perhaps you could try magnesium citrate or, better, Jigsaw magnesium and

see how that works for you.

 

good luck :-)

Edited by playground, 05 October 2016 - 05:10 AM.

[playground]

 

 

Unfortunately, sole-of-the-foot pain began during the same time. I describe here how that pain has persisted for the past 2.5 months since my two weeks on NR.   I'm not the only person on this forum to have reported sole-of-feet pain while on NR:

• smithx:  "After about 3 1/2 months I started to experience connective tissue pain in my hands and feet." http://www.longecity...ndpost&p=751498
• Brainfart:  "I had a pain in the 5th metatarsal on the outside of my foot, and it lasted for several days. I'm only on a 100 mg in the morning, from LEF's  NAD+ Cell Regenerator.  It's unfortunate because I was really enjoying the energy."  http://www.longecity...ndpost&p=718705
• Ms02138:  "I'm not 100% convinced my foot and ankle pain is related to the NR but it is striking how many of the 55-60 year old users have mentioned tendonitis." http://www.longecity...ndpost&p=721716
• Ironfistx: "After not taking any niagen for a few weeks I decided to try one capsule today.  Later in the evening the pain I've been having in my foot came back more than it has bothered me in weeks.  It is like the bottom of my foot is stretching or scraping when I walk which could be planatar fascitiis.  I'm not saying the niagen is acusing it but it seems to bother me mor ewhen I take it." http://www.longecity...ndpost&p=727159

I'm curious how the others are coping.  If they have continued NR, how has it gone?   

 

Does anyone have suggestions for countering the painful soles-of-feet issue? It's been hypothesized by Turnbuckle to be hyperuricemia or drug induced gout (niacin, a cousin of NR, causes gout in some people). See link here.  Another hypothesis advanced by newgenduder, is "foot pain/inflammation symptoms [in NR users] may be due to the fact that nicotinamide increases histamine  http://www.ncbi.nlm....pubmed/23426511."  I just came across his post today. The dude might be on to something.  

 

I don't know if my foot pain is connected to the tendon issues or not.  I wasn't taking pterostilbene at the time (pterostilbene, as has been noted here, is related to resveratrol, which is associated with tendon issues).  Anyway, my tendons are fine. It's just the soles of my feet.

 

Someone suggested I give NR a longer try, maybe 2 months, and I'm wondering if that is too risky (might it cause irreversible gout progression?) or not.  I'd particularly like to hear about the experiences of anyone who has persisted with NR in spite of soles-of-feet pain. 

On the Curated thread I posted today about yet another thread about pathogens that eat NAD+. Following through that line of thought: it might very well be that NR is not a direct contributor to tendonitis etc.The fact that NAD+levels get higher causes there to be more food for a slumbering pathogen in joints or tendons. Just a thought of course, but perhaps the more prudent approach is to stop taking NR until thhe underlying issue is solved..

 

Since starting taking NR+ i've had this recurrent pain in the front part of the sole of my right foot.

Typically it shows up first thing in the morning... when i get out of bed to go to the loo.... my right

foot is sore.. but only for a few minutes.  It somehow goes back to normal and i dont have pain

during the day.

 

I never had this problem before taking NR+.  This problem only showed up since i started taking NR+.

This is mild and not really a problem... I just think about it ... and wonder about it.

 

However, in the last 7 to 10 days, i developed a really painful left wrist.

Quite out of the blue. To the very best of my knowledge I've

sustained NO INJURY... It just appeared 'randomly' one morning.

And now, when i catch my wrist at the wrong angle it leaves me in 'real' pain.

It's the part of my wrist nearest my thumb.

What's happened in the last 3 or 4 weeks is that i've gone from taking 2 X 125mg NR+

to taking 3 X 125mg NR+ and i added quercetin (a CD38 inhibitor) to my regime.

 

I might add, that i never normally suffer joint pain. 

This wrist issue is highly unusual,

as is this minor thing on the front of the sole of my right foot. 

It's very clearly outside of the range of my normal experience (to have these pains).

 

I now wonder if Nate might be correct. 

I wonder if i'm feeding parasitic bacteria or viruses.

 

I guess what i should do is stop taking NR and quercetin to see if my wrist and

foot issues magically go away.

 

Edited by playground, 05 October 2016 - 05:06 AM.

[Nate-2004]

Hi Nate,

 

Have you been eating a low carb diet recently ?

It's quite typical for people who try Atkins or a ketogenic diet that they complain of

muscle cramps.  I have been having this problem frequently since early July when

I began my ketogenic diet.

 

The solutions to this cramp problem are:

(1) take approx 100mg to 200mg of magnesium citrate in your teas/coffees/water

during the day  (really high bio-availability with magnesium citrate)

(2) take "Jigsaw Magnesium" supplements - they are slow release and are really effective...

you'll find them on ebay and amazon and doubtless other places too.

(Jigsaw Magnesium, in my experience, works extremely well... and no, i'm not

a paid shill and i'm not an affiliate)

 

Often, keto dieters and Atkins dieters report muscle cramps and constipation.

It turns out that low magnesium levels can cause constipation too, especially

if your diet is rich in: dairy products, nuts or brassicas (kale, broccoli, cauliflower).

In that order (dairy, nuts, brassicas)

 

Whether or not you're deliberately eating a low carb diet, you might be suffering

low magnesium either through 'accidental' low carb eating or because you're

drinking alcohol or taking some other diuretic that results in magnesium loss.

So perhaps you could try magnesium citrate or, better, Jigsaw magnesium and

see how that works for you.

 

good luck :-)

 

No, normal diet. Balanced.

 

I get plenty of magnesium malate from the hydrogen water.

 

I hate kale and broccoli in particular. They are truly the most horrible tasting veggies of all, gag.  I don't eat or drink much dairy unless it's cheese or yogurt. Yogurt and cheese in particular show lowered mortality rates in a study on women, I figure it applies to men as well.

 

I don't know where the cramping comes from but if you've ever experienced a charlie horse or a cramp where you move your arm or leg or neck and it's like you turned it in two different directions simultaneously, that's how it feels. I don't think it's tendonitis because that's generally more of a soreness and inflammation feeling rather than a cramp.

 

My stack is huge though, I am making cuts in it, for money reasons as well as narrowing down what may be causing this.

 

NR

Resveratrol

Pterostilbene

D and K

Glutamine (gut health)

NAG (gut health)

Glucosamine sulfate (had a free sample)

L-carnosine (n-acetyl) 500mg each meal

Pomegranate extract (gut health)

Creatine

B-complex

R-ALA (just in the last week, could be this, not sure)

zinc

rarely copper

Curcumin

 

Other stuff:

 

Nootropics like ginkgo, bacopa, ginseng, l-carnitine and l-theanine

 

Hydrogen Water made with magnesium and malic acid.

 

I quit taking quercetin and now only take Apigenin a couple times a week due to the half-life.

 

Maybe it's one of the above, maybe not. It's way too big of a stack and I plan to narrow it down to just NR and resveratrol for a while.

Edited by Nate-2004, 05 October 2016 - 05:31 AM.

[Empiricus]

 

 

 

Unfortunately, sole-of-the-foot pain began during the same time. I describe here how that pain has persisted for the past 2.5 months since my two weeks on NR.   I'm not the only person on this forum to have reported sole-of-feet pain while on NR:

• smithx:  "After about 3 1/2 months I started to experience connective tissue pain in my hands and feet." http://www.longecity...ndpost&p=751498
• Brainfart:  "I had a pain in the 5th metatarsal on the outside of my foot, and it lasted for several days. I'm only on a 100 mg in the morning, from LEF's  NAD+ Cell Regenerator.  It's unfortunate because I was really enjoying the energy."  http://www.longecity...ndpost&p=718705
• Ms02138:  "I'm not 100% convinced my foot and ankle pain is related to the NR but it is striking how many of the 55-60 year old users have mentioned tendonitis." http://www.longecity...ndpost&p=721716
• Ironfistx: "After not taking any niagen for a few weeks I decided to try one capsule today.  Later in the evening the pain I've been having in my foot came back more than it has bothered me in weeks.  It is like the bottom of my foot is stretching or scraping when I walk which could be planatar fascitiis.  I'm not saying the niagen is acusing it but it seems to bother me mor ewhen I take it." http://www.longecity...ndpost&p=727159

I'm curious how the others are coping.  If they have continued NR, how has it gone?   

 

Does anyone have suggestions for countering the painful soles-of-feet issue? It's been hypothesized by Turnbuckle to be hyperuricemia or drug induced gout (niacin, a cousin of NR, causes gout in some people). See link here.  Another hypothesis advanced by newgenduder, is "foot pain/inflammation symptoms [in NR users] may be due to the fact that nicotinamide increases histamine  http://www.ncbi.nlm....pubmed/23426511."  I just came across his post today. The dude might be on to something.  

 

I don't know if my foot pain is connected to the tendon issues or not.  I wasn't taking pterostilbene at the time (pterostilbene, as has been noted here, is related to resveratrol, which is associated with tendon issues).  Anyway, my tendons are fine. It's just the soles of my feet.

 

Someone suggested I give NR a longer try, maybe 2 months, and I'm wondering if that is too risky (might it cause irreversible gout progression?) or not.  I'd particularly like to hear about the experiences of anyone who has persisted with NR in spite of soles-of-feet pain. 

On the Curated thread I posted today about yet another thread about pathogens that eat NAD+. Following through that line of thought: it might very well be that NR is not a direct contributor to tendonitis etc.The fact that NAD+levels get higher causes there to be more food for a slumbering pathogen in joints or tendons. Just a thought of course, but perhaps the more prudent approach is to stop taking NR until thhe underlying issue is solved..

 

✓  Since starting taking NR+ i've had this recurrent pain in the front part of the sole of my right foot.

✓  Typically it shows up first thing in the morning... when i get out of bed to go to the loo.... my right

foot is sore.. but only for a few minutes.

✓ (mine doesn't go away completely but improves greatly)  It somehow goes back to normal and i dont have pain

during the day.

 

✓  I never had this problem before taking NR+. 

This problem only showed up since i started taking NR+.

This is mild and not really a problem... I just think about it ... and wonder about it.

 

However, in the last 7 to 10 days, i developed a really painful left wrist.

 

Quite out of the blue. To the very best of my knowledge I've

sustained NO INJURY... It just appeared 'randomly' one morning.

✓   And now, when i catch my wrist at the wrong angle it leaves me in 'real' pain.

It's the part of my wrist nearest my thumb.

What's happened in the last 3 or 4 weeks is that i've gone from taking 2 X 125mg NR+

to taking 3 X 125mg NR+ and i added quercetin (a CD38 inhibitor) to my regime.

 

I might add, that i never normally suffer joint pain. 

This wrist issue is highly unusual,

as is this minor thing on the front of the sole of my right foot. 

It's very clearly outside of the range of my normal experience (to have these pains).

 

I now wonder if Nate might be correct. 

I wonder if i'm feeding parasitic bacteria or viruses.

 

I guess what i should do is stop taking NR and quercetin to see if my wrist and

foot issues magically go away.

 

 

I put check marks beside symptoms I also experience. I bolded the text where your details of your symptoms precisely match my experience: worse in early morning, more in right foot, etc..

 

I've gotten the wrist-at-wrong angle extreme pain too. I had never connected such unusually intense and sudden wrist pains to NR, but it has hit me several times post-NR and not before. As this strange extreme pain goes away very quickly for me (within 5 mins), I haven't though much about it.   

 

As described above, I've been off NR now for over 3 months, having last taken 125-250 mg for 2 weeks in late June (I also took 2 very small doses in Aug.), and the sole-of-feet symptoms haven't gone away.  I'm experimenting with diet now to see if anything reduces it. 

 

Playground, have you ever taken c60?  

Edited by Empiricus, 05 October 2016 - 09:51 AM.

[Harkijn]

 

 

 

Unfortunately, sole-of-the-foot pain began during the same time. I describe here how that pain has persisted for the past 2.5 months since my two weeks on NR.   I'm not the only person on this forum to have reported sole-of-feet pain while on NR:

• smithx:  "After about 3 1/2 months I started to experience connective tissue pain in my hands and feet." http://www.longecity...ndpost&p=751498
• Brainfart:  "I had a pain in the 5th metatarsal on the outside of my foot, and it lasted for several days. I'm only on a 100 mg in the morning, from LEF's  NAD+ Cell Regenerator.  It's unfortunate because I was really enjoying the energy."  http://www.longecity...ndpost&p=718705
• Ms02138:  "I'm not 100% convinced my foot and ankle pain is related to the NR but it is striking how many of the 55-60 year old users have mentioned tendonitis." http://www.longecity...ndpost&p=721716
• Ironfistx: "After not taking any niagen for a few weeks I decided to try one capsule today.  Later in the evening the pain I've been having in my foot came back more than it has bothered me in weeks.  It is like the bottom of my foot is stretching or scraping when I walk which could be planatar fascitiis.  I'm not saying the niagen is acusing it but it seems to bother me mor ewhen I take it." http://www.longecity...ndpost&p=727159

I'm curious how the others are coping.  If they have continued NR, how has it gone?   

 

Does anyone have suggestions for countering the painful soles-of-feet issue? It's been hypothesized by Turnbuckle to be hyperuricemia or drug induced gout (niacin, a cousin of NR, causes gout in some people). See link here.  Another hypothesis advanced by newgenduder, is "foot pain/inflammation symptoms [in NR users] may be due to the fact that nicotinamide increases histamine  http://www.ncbi.nlm....pubmed/23426511."  I just came across his post today. The dude might be on to something.  

 

I don't know if my foot pain is connected to the tendon issues or not.  I wasn't taking pterostilbene at the time (pterostilbene, as has been noted here, is related to resveratrol, which is associated with tendon issues).  Anyway, my tendons are fine. It's just the soles of my feet.

 

Someone suggested I give NR a longer try, maybe 2 months, and I'm wondering if that is too risky (might it cause irreversible gout progression?) or not.  I'd particularly like to hear about the experiences of anyone who has persisted with NR in spite of soles-of-feet pain. 

On the Curated thread I posted today about yet another thread about pathogens that eat NAD+. Following through that line of thought: it might very well be that NR is not a direct contributor to tendonitis etc.The fact that NAD+levels get higher causes there to be more food for a slumbering pathogen in joints or tendons. Just a thought of course, but perhaps the more prudent approach is to stop taking NR until thhe underlying issue is solved..

 

Since starting taking NR+ i've had this recurrent pain in the front part of the sole of my right foot.

Typically it shows up first thing in the morning... when i get out of bed to go to the loo.... my right

foot is sore.. but only for a few minutes.  It somehow goes back to normal and i dont have pain

during the day.

 

I never had this problem before taking NR+.  This problem only showed up since i started taking NR+.

This is mild and not really a problem... I just think about it ... and wonder about it.

 

However, in the last 7 to 10 days, i developed a really painful left wrist.

Quite out of the blue. To the very best of my knowledge I've

sustained NO INJURY... It just appeared 'randomly' one morning.

And now, when i catch my wrist at the wrong angle it leaves me in 'real' pain.

It's the part of my wrist nearest my thumb.

What's happened in the last 3 or 4 weeks is that i've gone from taking 2 X 125mg NR+

to taking 3 X 125mg NR+ and i added quercetin (a CD38 inhibitor) to my regime.

 

I might add, that i never normally suffer joint pain. 

This wrist issue is highly unusual,

as is this minor thing on the front of the sole of my right foot. 

It's very clearly outside of the range of my normal experience (to have these pains).

 

I now wonder if Nate might be correct. 

I wonder if i'm feeding parasitic bacteria or viruses.

 

I guess what i should do is stop taking NR and quercetin to see if my wrist and

foot issues magically go away.

 

Playground (actually this is a subject for the Experiences thread) I just meant to raise the question of pathogens as a possibility to be discussed as we go forward. I think that in very many cases the tendonitis or other pains are caused by something else than NR. As you will have seen Bryan thinks a connection unlikely and the MS study he mentions certainly seems to underscore his point.

Good idea to stop taking NR for a while and see what happens. But if the pain subsides we still don't know if there is an NR connection...

One important point for all with severe pain: don't wait to see a doctor. In your case for instance the sudden pain in the wrist and the location of the pain remind me of a number of cases of hematochromatosis I witnessed over the years. The sooner your doctor rules that out the better. Those with burning footsoles may perhaps overload on folic acids supps, etc. Hope you get well soon!

[Oakman]

Well, I may as well add my recent weird experience here  I keep a log book to note any changes in supplements and experiences so I can go back and see what happened when.

 

> Start Jul - started Niagen (Thorne Research) using two 60 cap bottles one 125mg, other 250mg. Varied the dose between 250mg and 500mg per day. All was well.

 

> Start Aug - switched to LCR Niagen in August (250mg). Dose at 250mg per day.

 

> Mid August - starting having left sole of foot pain. I do have some soreness always on this foot's big toe, BUT! This was way weird in that it showed up only when I was using the clutch in my car and it was excruciating pushing down on it. Now I've had the car since 2003, and we are as one. So I know that this pain was bizarre and unheard of before.

 

> End Aug - All of a sudden I had this strange and omnipresent "tight spot" in my right chest. It was like someone stuck a pin there and everything there was being held in place. It wasn't a sharp pain, or throbbing, just this weird tightness/little pain that scared the @#$% out of me! Heart attack? Cancer? Infection? This was totally out of context, esp. how it just began one day from nothing.

 

> Sept 3 - I stopped all supplements and, similar to Nate-2004, I take a bunch, probably too many. Still, although I had added several (including Niagen) recently this summer, I have taken many others for years.  But the chest pain scared me enough to stop everything.

 

> Sept 21 - chest, foot pain much reduced, start taking ONLY Niagen, trans-pterostilbene, D-Aspartic Acid.

> Sept 24 - chest pain back

> Sept 27 - stop everything

> Oct 3 - chest tightness gone, foot pain gone. Start some supplements - the basics, Vit C, Carnatine, R-Lipoic Acid, Curcumin, mini-Multi, d-Lemonine, Gingo, quercetin

> Oct 5 - all is well as of today

 

Of course, as I take other things, so I can't blame this on just the Niagen, but there is the fact that after stopping and then starting it again the weirdness went away, then returned. It could also be the d-aspartic acid or trans-pterostilbene. Or it could be just something to do with LCR's Niagen specifically, maybe a bad batch??  Anyway, I'm going with my 'regular' supps for a while and adding others back in until (and if) that bad feeling returns. 

 

Right now, I'm feeling as I'll add everything ELSE back in over time, then last thing - add LCR Niagen back.

 

Once this all began, this thread caught my eye, and although peoples experience was not identical to mine, the foot pain was too similar. Anyway, we'll see what happens as I add things back in, and finally - LCR Niagen.

 

 

[Nate-2004]

All I'm experiencing is charlie horse like cramps based on how I move, no "foot pain" so to speak, unless I sit down on the floor, sometimes my foot will cramp if I'm kneeling flat.

 

Web MD has this:

 

Muscle cramps can have many possible causes. They include:

• Poor blood circulation in the legs
• Overexertion of the calf muscles while exercising
• Insufficient stretching before exercise
• Exercising in the heat
• Muscle fatigue
• Dehydration
• Magnesium and/or potassium deficiency
• Calcium deficiency in pregnant women
• Malfunctioning nerves, which could be caused by a problem such as a spinal cord injury or pinched nerve in the neck or back

Muscle cramps can also occur as a side effect of some drugs.Medications that can cause muscle cramps include:

• Lasix (furosemide), Microzide (hydrochlorothiazide), and other diuretics ("water pills") used to remove fluid from the body
• Aricept (donepezil), used to treat Alzheimer's disease
• Prostigmine (neostigmine), used for myasthenia gravis
• Procardia (nifedipine), a treatment for angina and high blood pressure
• Evista (raloxifene), an osteoporosis treatment
• Brethine (terbutaline), Proventil and Ventolin (albuterol), asthma medications
• Tasmar (tolcapone), a medication used to treat Parkinson's disease
• Statin medications for cholesterol such as Crestor (rosuvastatin),Lescol (fluvastatin), Lipitor (atorvastatin), Mevacor (lovastatin),Pravachol (pravastatin), or Zocor (simvastatin)

 

I have begun stretching more after yesterday and so far no cramps.

 

 

 

Edited by Nate-2004, 05 October 2016 - 02:43 PM.

[Daniel Cooper]

Well, I may as well add my recent weird experience here  I keep a log book to note any changes in supplements and experiences so I can go back and see what happened when.

 

> Start Jul - started Niagen (Thorne Research) using two 60 cap bottles one 125mg, other 250mg. Varied the dose between 250mg and 500mg per day. All was well.

 

> Start Aug - switched to LCR Niagen in August (250mg). Dose at 250mg per day.

 

> Mid August - starting having left sole of foot pain. I do have some soreness always on this foot's big toe, BUT! This was way weird in that it showed up only when I was using the clutch in my car and it was excruciating pushing down on it. Now I've had the car since 2003, and we are as one. So I know that this pain was bizarre and unheard of before.

 

> End Aug - All of a sudden I had this strange and omnipresent "tight spot" in my right chest. It was like someone stuck a pin there and everything there was being held in place. It wasn't a sharp pain, or throbbing, just this weird tightness/little pain that scared the @#$% out of me! Heart attack? Cancer? Infection? This was totally out of context, esp. how it just began one day from nothing.

 

> Sept 3 - I stopped all supplements and, similar to Nate-2004, I take a bunch, probably too many. Still, although I had added several (including Niagen) recently this summer, I have taken many others for years.  But the chest pain scared me enough to stop everything.

 

> Sept 21 - chest, foot pain much reduced, start taking ONLY Niagen, trans-pterostilbene, D-Aspartic Acid.

> Sept 24 - chest pain back

> Sept 27 - stop everything

> Oct 3 - chest tightness gone, foot pain gone. Start some supplements - the basics, Vit C, Carnatine, R-Lipoic Acid, Curcumin, mini-Multi, d-Lemonine, Gingo, quercetin

> Oct 5 - all is well as of today

 

Of course, as I take other things, so I can't blame this on just the Niagen, but there is the fact that after stopping and then starting it again the weirdness went away, then returned. It could also be the d-aspartic acid or trans-pterostilbene. Or it could be just something to do with LCR's Niagen specifically, maybe a bad batch??  Anyway, I'm going with my 'regular' supps for a while and adding others back in until (and if) that bad feeling returns. 

 

Right now, I'm feeling as I'll add everything ELSE back in over time, then last thing - add LCR Niagen back.

 

Once this all began, this thread caught my eye, and although peoples experience was not identical to mine, the foot pain was too similar. Anyway, we'll see what happens as I add things back in, and finally - LCR Niagen.

 

 

I have a somewhat similar experience.  I've used NR for several years now (250mg/day).  Last year I developed persistent plantar fasciitis, which is inflammation of the plantar fascia (i.e. ligament) at the bottom of the foot. 

 

In the last month, I've developed costochondritis, which is inflammation of the cartilage of the sternum, which is a fairly good possibility for being the root cause of your problem in your chest.  Additionally, I've had a general increase in tendon pain pretty much everywhere.

 

This all could be coincidence.  I am after all now 50.  But, it does seem a little suspicious.

 

So, what could be the mechanism of action here?  Well, amongst the many things that NR does, I believe it is known to active SIRT1.  Could it be that like resveratrol the SIRT1 activation is mimicking caloric restriction and we're seeing that the body is down regulating the repair of various connective tissues?

 

 

Edited by Daniel Cooper, 05 October 2016 - 03:18 PM.

[Gingerbread Man]

Over the past several years I have had right sole pain, just starting into the arch where the ball of my foot meets it. Primarily on my right foot, but I have had it on the left as well. I have not had that happen since I have been on NR/Ubiquinol, but sometimes I could go a year or so without it. Interesting as I hadn't heard of others having sole pain that wasn't induced by trauma so I am glad to hear others have similar things. I have always thought it was perhaps a gout type of thing. As to other odd pains, joints/tendons and such, my wife and I have had them recently. My wife and I had started on pterostilbene for about a month before she tried NR and had developed pretty severe foot pain (enough to go to the doctor). She then added NR to the mix but it didn't help at all. I noticed around the same time she started feeling pain (we started taking pterostilbene around the same time, but I had already been on NR for some time) I started to have tendon type pains, especially in the areas where I had previous injuries. Because my wife was having the foot pain before the NR while on pterostilbene, we both eliminated pterostilbene from our supplements. Her foot has slowly been getting better and my tendon pains have disappeared. I am leaning towards pterostilbene as a possibility of your pain.

 

Nate, I see you take a B-Complex in your stack. Have you had your B12 checked lately? I have had cramps and spasms for the last 35 years or so and the NR has really helped me with them (I believe). I did have a couple recently that I attributed to dehydration. Recently I had blood work done and specifically asked for my B12 to be checked as my Family has a history of problems with B absorption. I also had problems when I was on metformin for years that I now attribute to low B12. My blood test showed I was a tick above the bottom level of normal (low 200's). I have read B12 can have an effect on muscles and cramping and such. Just a thought. Good luck.

[Nate-2004]

Over the past several years I have had right sole pain, just starting into the arch where the ball of my foot meets it. Primarily on my right foot, but I have had it on the left as well. I have not had that happen since I have been on NR/Ubiquinol, but sometimes I could go a year or so without it. Interesting as I hadn't heard of others having sole pain that wasn't induced by trauma so I am glad to hear others have similar things. I have always thought it was perhaps a gout type of thing. As to other odd pains, joints/tendons and such, my wife and I have had them recently. My wife and I had started on pterostilbene for about a month before she tried NR and had developed pretty severe foot pain (enough to go to the doctor). She then added NR to the mix but it didn't help at all. I noticed around the same time she started feeling pain (we started taking pterostilbene around the same time, but I had already been on NR for some time) I started to have tendon type pains, especially in the areas where I had previous injuries. Because my wife was having the foot pain before the NR while on pterostilbene, we both eliminated pterostilbene from our supplements. Her foot has slowly been getting better and my tendon pains have disappeared. I am leaning towards pterostilbene as a possibility of your pain.

 

Nate, I see you take a B-Complex in your stack. Have you had your B12 checked lately? I have had cramps and spasms for the last 35 years or so and the NR has really helped me with them (I believe). I did have a couple recently that I attributed to dehydration. Recently I had blood work done and specifically asked for my B12 to be checked as my Family has a history of problems with B absorption. I also had problems when I was on metformin for years that I now attribute to low B12. My blood test showed I was a tick above the bottom level of normal (low 200's). I have read B12 can have an effect on muscles and cramping and such. Just a thought. Good luck.

 

You're right it could be the pterostilbene. That page lists muscle cramping as a side effect.

 

I have had B12 checked lately and frustratingly enough my insurance decided to later not even cover the tests, pissed about that unexpected bill.  He said my B12 was a bit on the high end but I think the day of the blood test I had just taken some B12, in addition to the complex. That was probably why it was high.

[Rocket]

So what ever happened to the Sinclair human trials?