2266 replies to this topic

[Harkijn]

Over the past several years I have had right sole pain, just starting into the arch where the ball of my foot meets it. Primarily on my right foot, but I have had it on the left as well. I have not had that happen since I have been on NR/Ubiquinol, but sometimes I could go a year or so without it. Interesting as I hadn't heard of others having sole pain that wasn't induced by trauma so I am glad to hear others have similar things. I have always thought it was perhaps a gout type of thing. As to other odd pains, joints/tendons and such, my wife and I have had them recently. My wife and I had started on pterostilbene for about a month before she tried NR and had developed pretty severe foot pain (enough to go to the doctor). She then added NR to the mix but it didn't help at all. I noticed around the same time she started feeling pain (we started taking pterostilbene around the same time, but I had already been on NR for some time) I started to have tendon type pains, especially in the areas where I had previous injuries. Because my wife was having the foot pain before the NR while on pterostilbene, we both eliminated pterostilbene from our supplements. Her foot has slowly been getting better and my tendon pains have disappeared. I am leaning towards pterostilbene as a possibility of your pain.

 

Nate, I see you take a B-Complex in your stack. Have you had your B12 checked lately? I have had cramps and spasms for the last 35 years or so and the NR has really helped me with them (I believe). I did have a couple recently that I attributed to dehydration. Recently I had blood work done and specifically asked for my B12 to be checked as my Family has a history of problems with B absorption. I also had problems when I was on metformin for years that I now attribute to low B12. My blood test showed I was a tick above the bottom level of normal (low 200's). I have read B12 can have an effect on muscles and cramping and such. Just a thought. Good luck.

Qrazy (and others): if you have longterm neurological symptoms and a B12 level of 200, any doctor should take action. Especially in case of a family history! You should have shots to get way above this gray area value. This thread is totally veering off topic but because of the risks involved for you I needed to post this.

[Gingerbread Man]

 

Over the past several years I have had right sole pain, just starting into the arch where the ball of my foot meets it. Primarily on my right foot, but I have had it on the left as well. I have not had that happen since I have been on NR/Ubiquinol, but sometimes I could go a year or so without it. Interesting as I hadn't heard of others having sole pain that wasn't induced by trauma so I am glad to hear others have similar things. I have always thought it was perhaps a gout type of thing. As to other odd pains, joints/tendons and such, my wife and I have had them recently. My wife and I had started on pterostilbene for about a month before she tried NR and had developed pretty severe foot pain (enough to go to the doctor). She then added NR to the mix but it didn't help at all. I noticed around the same time she started feeling pain (we started taking pterostilbene around the same time, but I had already been on NR for some time) I started to have tendon type pains, especially in the areas where I had previous injuries. Because my wife was having the foot pain before the NR while on pterostilbene, we both eliminated pterostilbene from our supplements. Her foot has slowly been getting better and my tendon pains have disappeared. I am leaning towards pterostilbene as a possibility of your pain.

 

Nate, I see you take a B-Complex in your stack. Have you had your B12 checked lately? I have had cramps and spasms for the last 35 years or so and the NR has really helped me with them (I believe). I did have a couple recently that I attributed to dehydration. Recently I had blood work done and specifically asked for my B12 to be checked as my Family has a history of problems with B absorption. I also had problems when I was on metformin for years that I now attribute to low B12. My blood test showed I was a tick above the bottom level of normal (low 200's). I have read B12 can have an effect on muscles and cramping and such. Just a thought. Good luck.

Qrazy (and others): if you have longterm neurological symptoms and a B12 level of 200, any doctor should take action. Especially in case of a family history! You should have shots to get way above this gray area value. This thread is totally veering off topic but because of the risks involved for you I needed to post this.

 

Thanks for your concern Harkijn, per the doctors orders I am taking oral B12 supplements and will retest in about 2 months. Not trying to veer just offered some food for thought while replying.

 

I too have chest pains similar to Daniel Cooper, but mine have been there for years. I was hoping the NR/Ubiquinol would help with them but haven't noticed any real difference.

[Nate-2004]

I don't think any of this is off topic. It's worth considering what could be causing these symptoms other than NR or if NR what the mechanism of action might be (see curated thread).

[playground]

 

I put check marks beside symptoms I also experience. I bolded the text where your details of your symptoms precisely match my experience: worse in early morning, more in right foot, etc..

 

I've gotten the wrist-at-wrong angle extreme pain too. I had never connected such unusually intense and sudden wrist pains to NR, but it has hit me several times post-NR and not before. As this strange extreme pain goes away very quickly for me (within 5 mins), I haven't though much about it.   

 

As described above, I've been off NR now for over 3 months, having last taken 125-250 mg for 2 weeks in late June (I also took 2 very small doses in Aug.), and the sole-of-feet symptoms haven't gone away.  I'm experimenting with diet now to see if anything reduces it. 

 

Playground, have you ever taken c60?  

 

 

 Hi Empiricus,

 

 I have never taken c60.

 

 If you have been off NR for 3 months... then i guess the soreness in the sole of your foot

 might not be caused by NR.  Or, perhaps my assumption that the severity of the

symptoms would rise and fall with NR+ intake is ... simply wrong.

 

 

 In any event, the suggestion is that we might be harbouring pathogens

 that feed on NAD+... so that supplementing NR, or quercetin or apigenin would

 help the pathogens

 

 I have 5 suggestions: 

 

(1)   If this is due to a bacterial or viral infection,

       then perhaps MSM would help clear it.

(2)  Or perhaps colloidal silver would help clear it.  (25ppm or 50ppm)

(3)  Alternatively, perhaps 30mg of boron per day would help clear it

      (google for the stuff on Dr Rex Newnham and boron and arthritis)

(4)  Add substantial amounts of coconut oil to your diet.  The lauric acid

      in coconut oil has potent anti-pathogenic activity.  There's a book by

      Bruce Fife, 'The Coconut Oil Miracle' which suggests that regular

      consumption of coconut oil prevents the proliferation of various

      pathogens that are responsible for arthritis, ... and other diseases.

(5)  all of the options (1), (2), (3) and (4) above at once.
 

I'm already doing (3) and (4) ... I might add (1) and (2) ... and ipso facto (5).

 

The other ideas that dawn on me are:

 

(a) take 3000 IU of vitamin D3 per day

(I take 20,000 IU as a single capsule every Friday)

(b) eat 1 pot of natto every week  (50 to 100 grams per pot)

(For the vitamin K / vitamin D synergy and immune boosting effects)

[Empiricus]

 

 

I put check marks beside symptoms I also experience. I bolded the text where your details of your symptoms precisely match my experience: worse in early morning, more in right foot, etc..

 

I've gotten the wrist-at-wrong angle extreme pain too. I had never connected such unusually intense and sudden wrist pains to NR, but it has hit me several times post-NR and not before. As this strange extreme pain goes away very quickly for me (within 5 mins), I haven't though much about it.   

 

As described above, I've been off NR now for over 3 months, having last taken 125-250 mg for 2 weeks in late June (I also took 2 very small doses in Aug.), and the sole-of-feet symptoms haven't gone away.  I'm experimenting with diet now to see if anything reduces it. 

 

Playground, have you ever taken c60?  

 

 

 Hi Empiricus,

 

 I have never taken c60.

 

 If you have been off NR for 3 months... then i guess the soreness in the sole of your foot

 might not be caused by NR.  Or, perhaps my assumption that the severity of the

symptoms would rise and fall with NR+ intake is ... simply wrong.

 

 

 In any event, the suggestion is that we might be harbouring pathogens

 that feed on NAD+... so that supplementing NR, or quercetin or apigenin would

 help the pathogens

 

 I have 5 suggestions: 

 

(1)   If this is due to a bacterial or viral infection,

       then perhaps MSM would help clear it.

(2)  Or perhaps colloidal silver would help clear it.  (25ppm or 50ppm)

(3)  Alternatively, perhaps 30mg of boron per day would help clear it

      (google for the stuff on Dr Rex Newnham and boron and arthritis)

(4)  Add substantial amounts of coconut oil to your diet.  The lauric acid

      in coconut oil has potent anti-pathogenic activity.  There's a book by

      Bruce Fife, 'The Coconut Oil Miracle' which suggests that regular

      consumption of coconut oil prevents the proliferation of various

      pathogens that are responsible for arthritis, ... and other diseases.

(5)  all of the options (1), (2), (3) and (4) above at once.
 

I'm already doing (3) and (4) ... I might add (1) and (2) ... and ipso facto (5).

 

The other ideas that dawn on me are:

 

(a) take 3000 IU of vitamin D3 per day

(I take 20,000 IU as a single capsule every Friday)

(b) eat 1 pot of natto every week  (50 to 100 grams per pot)

(For the vitamin K / vitamin D synergy and immune boosting effects)

 

 

 

Playground, Thanks for the suggestions  They look like good ones.  Nice to be able to rule out some kind of c60 interaction as a necessary precondition for sole-of-foot pain on NR.  Since Oakman suffered on and off for a whole month after quitting, I'm not the only one who has had it persist for some time after stopping.  How long it can go on remains to be seen...

 

Bryan_S, Interesting thoughts about gout and connections to kidneys. I am exploring the question further. 

 

Oakman,

 

Of course, as I take other things, so I can't blame this on just the Niagen, but there is the fact that after stopping and then starting it again the weirdness went away, then returned. It could also be the d-aspartic acid or trans-pterostilbene. Or it could be just something to do with LCR's Niagen specifically, maybe a bad batch??  Anyway, I'm going with my 'regular' supps for a while and adding others back in until (and if) that bad feeling returns. 

 

For the record, I took only Niagen (Thorne Research) for the 2 weeks.  Good that you mention the brands, I was wondering if it was just this one. As for pterostilbene, I wasn't on it and hadn't taken any in over 1.5 years.  So I doubt it has anything to do with that. 

 

Daniel Cooper,

 

In the last month, I've developed costochondritis, which is inflammation of the cartilage of the sternum, which is a fairly good possibility for being the root cause of your problem in your chest.  Additionally, I've had a general increase in tendon pain pretty much everywhere.

 

Interesting question.  As it happens, I am presently pursuing a calorie restriction diet to see if that helps the sole of foot issue, etc. I've done CR many times before without much difficulty.  This time, I decided to increase my calories on account of bouts of pain in the center of my chest.  

 

So, what could be the mechanism of action here?  Well, amongst the many things that NR does, I believe it is known to active SIRT1.  Could it be that like resveratrol the SIRT1 activation is mimicking caloric restriction and we're seeing that the body is down regulating the repair of various connective tissues?

 

Good question. I tolerate resveratrol very well and it never gives me tendonitis or any other problems.  

 

Qrazy, 

 

 Because my wife was having the foot pain before the NR while on pterostilbene, we both eliminated pterostilbene from our supplements. Her foot has slowly been getting better and my tendon pains have disappeared. I am leaning towards pterostilbene as a possibility of your pain.

 

Perhaps pterostilbene makes it worse, but in my case at least, pterostilbene can be excluded as having been the cause.

 

Nate,  I often get massive leg cramping on B5.  You might want to check how much is in your B complex. 

Edited by Empiricus, 05 October 2016 - 10:08 PM.

[Bryan_S]

As you guys know I've had extensive foot and leg injuries. You name it I've done it including driving my calcaneus through the sole of a sneaker. As you might imagine I have adhesions in the plantar fascia and had tendon surgery to free up the toes. On my other ankle/foot I have a plate where they fixed an ankle fracture. This plate is under my Ankles Extensor Tendons, there are three of them. It had always been an area of pain to me and now its not. This was all before NR and since the pain has lessoned and is not a constant reminder as it once was. If my pain wasn't so bad before I might consider stopping NR's use to see if the pain might go away completely like you guys are suggesting but so far this is the only thing that has worked to date. This thought that it might work differently on someone else is baffling, I hope you guys find relief.

 

Edited by Bryan_S, 06 October 2016 - 01:08 AM.

[Gingerbread Man]

Bryan_S

     

     If my pain wasn't so bad before I might consider stopping NR's use to see if the pain might go away completely like you guys are suggesting but so far this is the only thing that has worked to date. This thought that it might work differently on someone else is baffling, I hope you guys find relief.

 

I hope you guys can figure out what the root of your problems are. So far I haven't had any side effects (that I am aware of) from the NR. NR has helped tremendously with my sleep, arthritis, back pain (still amazes me everyday) and my quality of life among other things. But like Bryan, I can't imagine going off of it. Good luck guys.

[Nate-2004]

I've not experienced any cramps in the last couple of days after I started stretching my arms and calves after working out. We'll see if it comes back today when I hit the gym.

[Harkijn]

 

 

Over the past several years I have had right sole pain, just starting into the arch where the ball of my foot meets it. Primarily on my right foot, but I have had it on the left as well. I have not had that happen since I have been on NR/Ubiquinol, but sometimes I could go a year or so without it. Interesting as I hadn't heard of others having sole pain that wasn't induced by trauma so I am glad to hear others have similar things. I have always thought it was perhaps a gout type of thing. As to other odd pains, joints/tendons and such, my wife and I have had them recently. My wife and I had started on pterostilbene for about a month before she tried NR and had developed pretty severe foot pain (enough to go to the doctor). She then added NR to the mix but it didn't help at all. I noticed around the same time she started feeling pain (we started taking pterostilbene around the same time, but I had already been on NR for some time) I started to have tendon type pains, especially in the areas where I had previous injuries. Because my wife was having the foot pain before the NR while on pterostilbene, we both eliminated pterostilbene from our supplements. Her foot has slowly been getting better and my tendon pains have disappeared. I am leaning towards pterostilbene as a possibility of your pain.

 

Nate, I see you take a B-Complex in your stack. Have you had your B12 checked lately? I have had cramps and spasms for the last 35 years or so and the NR has really helped me with them (I believe). I did have a couple recently that I attributed to dehydration. Recently I had blood work done and specifically asked for my B12 to be checked as my Family has a history of problems with B absorption. I also had problems when I was on metformin for years that I now attribute to low B12. My blood test showed I was a tick above the bottom level of normal (low 200's). I have read B12 can have an effect on muscles and cramping and such. Just a thought. Good luck.

Qrazy (and others): if you have longterm neurological symptoms and a B12 level of 200, any doctor should take action. Especially in case of a family history! You should have shots to get way above this gray area value. This thread is totally veering off topic but because of the risks involved for you I needed to post this.

 

Thanks for your concern Harkijn, per the doctors orders I am taking oral B12 supplements and will retest in about 2 months. Not trying to veer just offered some food for thought while replying.

 

I too have chest pains similar to Daniel Cooper, but mine have been there for years. I was hoping the NR/Ubiquinol would help with them but haven't noticed any real difference.

 

Qrazy, I apologize, it looked off topic to me because I thought I was reading the Curated thread.

Btw, if you have a B12 absorption problem oral supplements won't be absorbed either....A good doctor would have discussed this with you already...

[Gingerbread Man]

Harkijn, No worries. I think that's why he is having me do a 2 month run on the oral B12 and see where it takes me. He prescribed 1000 mcg tablets which turned out to be cyanocobalamin, but I will be taking the methylcobalamin version sublingually.

[adamh]

I have experienced tendon discomfort after going on niagen too. Can't be just a coincidence. But my appetite is down which is a plus. Not sure about the other benefits but I will stay with it.

[Daniel Cooper]

For what it's worth guys (which may not be much) due to steadily increasing soft tissue pain (tendons, ligaments, cartilage) I discontinued taking NR one week ago.

 

It may be coincidence, but the steadily increasing soft tissue pain has become significant, so whatever the root cause I need to get to the bottom of it.  Eliminating NR seems like a reasonable step that will at least take that possibility off the table if it does not improve.

 

If the NR is the problem, possibly through mimicking CR through SIRT1 activation, my expectation would be that it would take several months for this to improve.  If the problem is that these soft tissues are not being rebuilt fast enough to repair normal wear and tear then it will take some time as these tissues are not well vascularized and are notoriously slow to heal.

 

If I determine to my satisfaction that NR is the root cause then I'll be faced with a dilemma as I think NR is a useful anti-aging supplement.  I'd probably look at some sort of cycling program to address the issue.

 

 

[Female Scientist]

Just a thought, but is it possible that NR is building muscle, which then puts strain on surrounding tendons/ligaments, which do not necessarily grow/stretch at the same speed? My kid has Osgood-Schlatter disease, which is simply pain and inflammation in the knee caused by faster bone growth than tendon/muscle growth. Not exactly the same, I know, but it does strike me that if NR causes growth in muscle (which I think it does), how do the tendons keep up? And if NR creates better exercise endurance, when we exercise more, maybe the muscles and heart CAN  keep up because of the NR, but the tendons are yelling "UNCLE!"  Pain and inflammation would result. Maybe NR causes uneven improvement in different tissues, and that needs to be managed. Just a thought...

[Empiricus]

Just a thought, but is it possible that NR is building muscle, which then puts strain on surrounding tendons/ligaments, which do not necessarily grow/stretch at the same speed? 

 

In my case sharp foot pain began within the first week, leaving no time for muscles to get built. 

Edited by Empiricus, 10 October 2016 - 07:43 PM.

[Nate-2004]

I reported cramps a week ago, but they're gone now. No pain anymore. I started stretching more after workouts my guess is that's why. I don't think it was the same as what's being described here.

[Daniel Cooper]

I reported cramps a week ago, but they're gone now. No pain anymore. I started stretching more after workouts my guess is that's why. I don't think it was the same as what's being described here.

 

 

No, the problems I'm having definitely aren't cramps (excessively contracted muscles).  It's ligament pain the the foot (plantar fasciitis), tendon pain in both hands, and intercostal cartilage pain in the ribs (costochondritis).  The costochondritis is somewhat unusual in that it has appeared in the lower ribs, not the sternum where it is far more common.

 

Since I don't think there is a single person here taking just one supplement it could well be the combination that I'm taking.  The two most "unusual" supplements I'm using are NR and MitoQ.  I wonder if the MitoQ might be in the mix?  Perhaps it also actives SIRT1?  I'll have to look into that when I get the chance.

Edited by Daniel Cooper, 10 October 2016 - 08:52 PM.

[Empiricus]

 

Since I don't think there is a single person here taking just one supplement it could well be the combination that I'm taking.  The two most "unusual" supplements I'm using are NR and MitoQ.  I wonder if the MitoQ might be in the mix?  Perhaps it also actives SIRT1?  I'll have to look into that when I get the chance.

 

 

The first of the 2 weeks I took it, when the sole-of-feet pain started for me, I was taking no other supplements. None. Not even a multivitamin.  My dietary consumption of cocoa and olive oil was, however, high at the time.  

 

I've never taken MitoQ. Though have taken PQQ, which I understand is similar, but the timing of my PQQ use doesn't coincide with the onset of the foot pain for me. Unless PQQ sticks around in one's body for weeks.  

 

        **** 

 

Maybe there is something we *should* be taking with NR to prevent whatever causes the pain from happening.  Some kind of missing co-factor.  Maybe NR depletes some enzyme, vitamin or mineral, and by supplementing with something, we can take NR safely again.

Edited by Empiricus, 11 October 2016 - 06:04 AM.

[debu]

I also get pain on the soles of my feet when taking NR. I first was intrigued about it when group buys were going on, but I held out on trying it until months ago I got some of Jarrow’s. Every time I take it I feel tenderness on the sole of my foot as well as more energy when working out. Occasionally, I take something with PQQ in it also. 

I wasn’t logging in for this, but it’s quite interesting to see others feel the same.

[heyeddy]

hey guys,

 

anyone have read this?

http://www.vice.com/...usion-injection

 

 

company from the article:

http://www.zenhealth...nad-iv-infusion

 

Any ideas where I can get Nicotinamide adenine dinucleotide injections? 

 

 

Edited by heyeddy, 19 October 2016 - 12:40 PM.

[Harkijn]

hey guys,

 

anyone have read this?

http://www.vice.com/...usion-injection

 

 

company from the article:

http://www.zenhealth...nad-iv-infusion

 

Any ideas where I can get Nicotinamide adenine dinucleotide injections? 

Eddy, start reading up here:

http://www.longecity...-nadnadh-ratio/

[malbecman]

For what it is worth, as I recall, a number of people also reported tendonitis and joint issues when taking resveratrol, esp some of the people who were taking bigger doses (like 500mg+).   That was a very active sub-group here at LongeCity but has since died down.  Again, as I recall, it seemed that Vitamin D supplementation helped.   Might be worth going back and looking over some people's anecdotal reports.

[playground]

For what it is worth, as I recall, a number of people also reported tendonitis and joint issues when taking resveratrol, esp some of the people who were taking bigger doses (like 500mg+).   That was a very active sub-group here at LongeCity but has since died down.  Again, as I recall, it seemed that Vitamin D supplementation helped.   Might be worth going back and looking over some people's anecdotal reports.

 

My vitamin D3 status is fine and has been fine for at least the last 5 years.

I  take 20,000 IUs one per week.  That's sufficient.

 

The single change, i made to my supplements... is NR+.

I was taking 3 X 125mg. 

Since about 2 weeks ago I've been taking 0 mg.

 

What has happened in that 2 weeks ?

 

Before...  i would wake up in the middle of the night, if i turned over onto my left wrist.

Before...  I would cringe in pain, if i tried to take the lid off a glass jar.

Before...  most mornings, i would feel a tingling on the sole of my right foot.

 

Now...   I never wake up in the middle of the night...  my left wrist isn't sensitive any more.

Now...   I can open glass jars absent mindedly without any nasty painful surprises.

Now...   I never think about my foot when i wake up... that's because it doesn't tingle any more.

 

I went from having arthritis-like symptoms...  with pain... to normality...  in just 2 weeks.

The only change i made...  was  NR+.

 

NR+ will feed certain types of commonly occurring pathogen.

So it looks like I have one or more of these types pathogen... in my joints.

 

My advice is... be wary of marketting lies and marketting misrepresentation on this forum.

The  fact is.. this stuff comes with dangers of feeding pathogens within your body.

The nightmare scenario is that this stuff might be feeding pathogens inside vital organs,

your heart, your kidneys, your liver, your brain.... 

 

I kept thinking to myself:  What if the pathogens are inside my brain ?

There are no nerves inside the brain...  there'd be no way of me knowing damage is occurring.

I would just end up with cognitive deficits .... and then I'd wonder why.

 

Research is increasingly highlighting that pathogens cause the dementia diseases.

http://www.telegraph...rn-experts.html

So for example, Chlamydia Pneumoniae and Alzheimer's

See here:  https://www.ncbi.nlm...pubmed/15998578

 

Fact is.. we all have a pathogenic load inside our body.

Everyone!.. No exceptions.

Feeding (some of) these pathogens is not a good idea... IMHO.

You don't know which pathogens are inside your body...

You don't know which of those pathogens are being cultivated by NR+. 

 

Naturally, I would very much like to find out which are the candidate pathogens.

 

If any readers have a knowledge of these types of pathogen..

I would be very grateful if you could offer me a heads up :-)

 

 

Edited by playground, 20 October 2016 - 04:50 AM.

[stefan_001]

For what it is worth, as I recall, a number of people also reported tendonitis and joint issues when taking resveratrol, esp some of the people who were taking bigger doses (like 500mg+). That was a very active sub-group here at LongeCity but has since died down. Again, as I recall, it seemed that Vitamin D supplementation helped. Might be worth going back and looking over some people's anecdotal reports.

My vitamin D3 status is fine and has been fine for at least the last 5 years.
I take 20,000 IUs one per week. That's sufficient.

The single change, i made to my supplements... is NR+.
I was taking 3 X 125mg.
Since about 2 weeks ago I've been taking 0 mg.

What has happened in that 2 weeks ?

Before... i would wake up in the middle of the night, if i turned over onto my left wrist.
Before... I would cringe in pain, if i tried to take the lid off a glass jar.
Before... most mornings, i would feel a tingling on the sole of my right foot.

Now... I never wake up in the middle of the night... my left wrist isn't sensitive any more.
Now... I can open glass jars absent mindedly without any nasty painful surprises.
Now... I never think about my foot when i wake up... that's because it doesn't tingle any more.

I went from having arthritis-like symptoms... with pain... to normality... in just 2 weeks.
The only change i made... was NR+.

NR+ will feed certain types of commonly occurring pathogen.
So it looks like I have one or more of these types pathogen... in my joints.

My advice is... be wary of marketting lies and marketting misrepresentation on this forum.
The fact is.. this stuff comes with dangers of feeding pathogens within your body.
The nightmare scenario is that this stuff might be feeding pathogens inside vital organs,
your heart, your kidneys, your liver, your brain....

I kept thinking to myself: What if the pathogens are inside my brain ?
There are no nerves inside the brain... there'd be no way of me knowing damage is occurring.
I would just end up with cognitive deficits .... and then I'd wonder why.

Research is increasingly highlighting that pathogens cause the dementia diseases.
http://www.telegraph...rn-experts.html
So for example, Chlamydia Pneumoniae and Alzheimer's
See here: https://www.ncbi.nlm...pubmed/15998578

Fact is.. we all have a pathogenic load inside our body.
Everyone!.. No exceptions.
Feeding (some of) these pathogens is not a good idea... IMHO.
You don't know which pathogens are inside your body...
You don't know which of those pathogens are being cultivated by NR+.

Naturally, I would very much like to find out which are the candidate pathogens.

If any readers have a knowledge of these types of pathogen..
I would be very grateful if you could offer me a heads up :-)

Sorry to be totally sceptical of this story. Not the sensations but the explanation.

You can speculate this in any direction. How abou this explanation perhaps NR is actually rescuing and recovering some nerves that have been dying of over the years and that indeed you have damage in your left wrist which the recovering nerves start to signal to your brain.

[Daniel Cooper]

I have seen no evidence that pathogens (which pathogens?) play any role in NR's effect, either positive or negative.

 

 

 

Edited by Daniel Cooper, 20 October 2016 - 06:26 PM.

[playground]

 

Sorry to be totally sceptical of this story. Not the sensations but the explanation.

You can speculate this in any direction. How abou this explanation perhaps NR is actually rescuing and recovering some nerves that have been dying of over the years and that indeed you have damage in your left wrist which the recovering nerves start to signal to your brain.

 

 

   I do understand... that many people reading this thread (including myself)

   want to believe that NR+ is going to be _the_ anti-aging solution. I want to believe this too.

 

   So naturally, you don't want to believe any suggestions that NR+ is causing arthritis-like symptoms.

 

   If you read the posts in the NR+ main thread.. you'll find reference to papers showing that NR+

   feeds certain sets of pathogens...

 

   I've never experienced any loss of sensation, tingling, sharp random, injury-less pains...  in my life... ever...

   ...except for a period recently when i was taking NR+.

   These symptoms rapidly evaporated when i stopped taking NR+.

 

   You might be correct, that another explanation accounts for my symptoms.

   But the explanation you're offering is just simply wrong.

   I've never had any loss of sensation, or weakness, or sharp (injury-less) pain

    not before taking NR+ and not since stopping taking NR+.

 

   Other people reported the similar symptoms whilst taking NR 

   (Read the posts above and in the curated NR+ main thread)

 

   Of-course, it's your body.. you can believe whatever suits you emotionally.

   But keep in mind

   (a) If you experience sore joints it might be time to remember my tale.

   (b) worryingly... the pathogens you're feeding might not be in your joints.

I've not experienced any cramps in the last couple of days after I started stretching my arms and calves after working out. We'll see if it comes back today when I hit the gym.

 

hI Nate

 

did your cramps go away completely... or did  they come back ?

[stefan_001]

 

 

Sorry to be totally sceptical of this story. Not the sensations but the explanation.

You can speculate this in any direction. How abou this explanation perhaps NR is actually rescuing and recovering some nerves that have been dying of over the years and that indeed you have damage in your left wrist which the recovering nerves start to signal to your brain.

 

 

   I do understand... that many people reading this thread (including myself)

   want to believe that NR+ is going to be _the_ anti-aging solution. I want to believe this too.

 

   So naturally, you don't want to believe any suggestions that NR+ is causing arthritis-like symptoms.

 

   If you read the posts in the NR+ main thread.. you'll find reference to papers showing that NR+

   feeds certain sets of pathogens...

 

   I've never experienced any loss of sensation, tingling, sharp random, injury-less pains...  in my life... ever...

   ...except for a period recently when i was taking NR+.

   These symptoms rapidly evaporated when i stopped taking NR+.

 

   You might be correct, that another explanation accounts for my symptoms.

   But the explanation you're offering is just simply wrong.

   I've never had any loss of sensation, or weakness, or sharp (injury-less) pain

    not before taking NR+ and not since stopping taking NR+.

 

   Other people reported the similar symptoms whilst taking NR 

   (Read the posts above and in the curated NR+ main thread)

 

   Of-course, it's your body.. you can believe whatever suits you emotionally.

   But keep in mind

   (a) If you experience sore joints it might be time to remember my tale.

   (b) worryingly... the pathogens you're feeding might not be in your joints.

I've not experienced any cramps in the last couple of days after I started stretching my arms and calves after working out. We'll see if it comes back today when I hit the gym.

 

hI Nate

 

did your cramps go away completely... or did  they come back ?

 

 

Hey playground, I think you were the person experimenting with NGF eyedrops so compared to that NR is not too adventurous :-)

 

My thinking is try NR again, if it is repeatable then there is something going on. Are you having problems with Candida?

http://onlinelibrary...07.05886.x/full

 

what the artcile also shows is that the other NAD+ precursers are even more suitable for this...which some people have consumed in massive amounts.

 

 

Edited by stefan_001, 22 October 2016 - 07:34 AM.

[stefan_001]

..

 

Edited by stefan_001, 22 October 2016 - 07:27 AM.

[BigLabRat]

   I do understand... that many people reading this thread (including myself)

   want to believe that NR+ is going to be _the_ anti-aging solution. I want to believe this too.

 

   So naturally, you don't want to believe any suggestions that NR+ is causing arthritis-like symptoms.

 

   Of-course, it's your body.. you can believe whatever suits you emotionally.

 

Well, thanks so much for your incredibly patronizing post.

 

About three years ago, I tore my the tendons/ligaments/fascia in my rotator cuff. For no apparent reason.

 

If I had just started NR, I might blame NR. But that wasn't the case. In fact, I started NR late in the healing process.

 

I've only gotten better. I don't think NR had anything to do with it, pro or con. But it certainly didn't make it worse.

 

-----------------------------

 

You are asserting that if I don't assume that NR causes symptoms that I haven't had, that I'm in denial, because of my "beliefs." As if you have extensive evidence. And if I don't agree with you, it's because I'm emotionally invested in believing in NR.

 

I am totally open-minded on NR. You're the one who seems emotionally committed to a belief.

[playground]

 

   I do understand... that many people reading this thread (including myself)

   want to believe that NR+ is going to be _the_ anti-aging solution. I want to believe this too.

 

   So naturally, you don't want to believe any suggestions that NR+ is causing arthritis-like symptoms.

 

   Of-course, it's your body.. you can believe whatever suits you emotionally.

 

Well, thanks so much for your incredibly patronizing post.

 

About three years ago, I tore my the tendons/ligaments/fascia in my rotator cuff. For no apparent reason.

 

If I had just started NR, I might blame NR. But that wasn't the case. In fact, I started NR late in the healing process.

 

I've only gotten better. I don't think NR had anything to do with it, pro or con. But it certainly didn't make it worse.

 

-----------------------------

 

You are asserting that if I don't assume that NR causes symptoms that I haven't had, that I'm in denial, because of my "beliefs." As if you have extensive evidence. And if I don't agree with you, it's because I'm emotionally invested in believing in NR.

 

I am totally open-minded on NR. You're the one who seems emotionally committed to a belief.

 

 

    Your emotional response.. tells a different story to your claim of being "Totally open-minded on NR"

    Why are you responding to my well intentioned post... like i've offended you?

    The answer is... you've got hopes tied up in NR... and the story my experience is raining on your parade.

 

Edited by playground, 22 October 2016 - 12:58 PM.

[playground]

 

 

Hey playground, I think you were the person experimenting with NGF eyedrops so compared to that NR is not too adventurous :-)

 

My thinking is try NR again, if it is repeatable then there is something going on. Are you having problems with Candida?

http://onlinelibrary...07.05886.x/full

 

what the artcile also shows is that the other NAD+ precursers are even more suitable for this...which some people have consumed in massive amounts.

 

 

Hi Stefan

 

Nice to see you again

Yes...  NGF .. but not the eyedrops...  the nasal drops are absorbed more efficiently.

 

Your suggestion is a good one. 

It's already crossed my mind. .. It would be a classic   A-B-A experiment design

Or  A-B-A-B  or even A-B-A-B-A    (where A = treatment with NR, B= baseline (no NR))

And of-course the question is.. do the symptoms appear consistently during the treatment with NR  ?

 

It a straight forward and easy thing to do... and the only thing stopping me.. is that it's my body

and i don't have a spare.  Let's assume i'm correct, there are pathogens and they're basically

feeding on my body and causing damage.  What if they're in my heart, or liver, or brain.

It's the precautionary principle... that prevents me jumping straight into it.

 

In any case, i haven't had time (yet) to go rummaging through the research papers to figure out

which pathogens love a meal of NR, or NAD.

Thank you for the research paper.. That's extremely interesting