2266 replies to this topic

[playground]

Update on the healing progress with my left wrist.

 

In terms of pain and sensitivity and flexibility.  It's completely healed now.

 

Previously, if i put weight on my wrist or if i moved my hand such that, my fingers

moved towards my thumb... that would be   d a m n   p a i n f u l .  And i would wince.

 

However, and here's the odd thing. There was never a lump on my wrist before.

It was painful and sensitive.. but no lump... and it was like that for weeks.

 

Now.. there's no pain, no sensitivity, complete range of motion.  But a lump

the size of half a marble has appeared in the last 24 or 28 hours.. seemingly

quite out of the blue and exactly when the symptoms have vanished.

But no lump previously, despite the pain... quite strange.

 

I'm relating these details in case you have similar symptoms.

Edited by playground, 27 October 2016 - 07:39 PM.

[stefan_001]

Update on the healing progress with my left wrist.

 

In terms of pain and sensitivity and flexibility.  It's completely healed now.

 

Previously, if i put weight on my wrist or if i moved my hand such that, my fingers

moved towards my thumb... that would be   d a m n   p a i n f u l .  And i would wince.

 

However, and here's the odd thing. There was never a lump on my wrist before.

It was painful and sensitive.. but no lump... and it was like that for weeks.

 

Now.. there's no pain, no sensitivity, complete range of motion.  But a lump

the size of half a marble has appeared in the last 24 or 28 hours.. seemingly

quite out of the blue and exactly when the symptoms have vanished.

But no lump previously, despite the pain... quite strange.

 

I'm relating these details in case you have similar symptoms.

https://www.healthgr...toms/wrist-lump

[jjnz]

I (45/m/european)Have been taking (for 6 weeks) nr 2*125mg in morning with 50mg pterostillbene , with additional 125mg before lunch.
I suffer (for the past 24 months) from symptoms of sjogrens and rheumatoid arthritis and possibly some lupus symptoms. All are early and I fail serum tests. Never the less I suffer intermittent strong fatigue, nocturnal joint pain, neurological issues such as intention tremors and various connective tissue issues such as the abovementioned costochrondritis, Mortons neuromas etc etc.

Significant improvement in muscular fatigue, I'm now able to exercise 45 minutes/day and increasing. No sickness the day after exercise (used to get reliable headaches post exercise). This has been a huge factor in the remainder of the flow on improvements being a substantial increase in mood, a decrease in anxiety (something I experienced for the first time this year)

Both Mortons neuromas have decreased in size (could be coincidental) I can now walk naturally on both feet, joints still redden at night but inner body swelling such as under ribs has reduced a great deal, balance has improved. Cognition is up but I don't feel memory is.

Symptoms worsened a few days ago upon ceasing NR (ran out) about to restart.

From my n=1 experience, nr does not increase joint pain or costochrondroitis.

I also practice the "win hof method" take curcumin, fishoils, eat gluten free etc but these are not new interventions.

Nr worked instantly for me , energy increase noticed on day 2.
Will report any further obs of significance

[APBT]

The following was originally posted by Fafner55, on Turnbuckle's thread "A protocol to upgrade mitochondria":  http://www.longecity...e-2#entry791908

 

I thought it relevant and appropriate for the personal experience thread.

 

 

 

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Posted 11 October 2016 - 11:22 PM

Estimated Dose of NR Needed to Induce Mitophagy

• "Nicotinamide enhances mitochondria quality through autophagy activation in human cells" (2009)http://onlinelibrary...09.00487.x/full
• �Novel NAD+ metabolomic technologies and their applications to Nicotinamide Riboside interventions� (2016)  http://ir.uiowa.edu/etd/3203/  (Ph.D. thesis)
• �GENERALLY RECOGNIZED AS SAFE (GRAS) DETERMINATION FOR NIAGEN � (NICOTINAMIDE RIBOSIDE CHLORIDE)� (2015-12)http://www.fda.gov/d...y/ucm505226.pdf

  Decrease of mitochondrial mass in the NAM-treated human fibroblasts.jpg   36.56KB   3 downloads

 

The following data points and facts are known.

• Keeping NAD+ elevated by 50% for 5 to 7 days significantly decreases mtDNA mass by 50% (in vitro)  "Nicotinamide enhances mitochondria quality through autophagy activation in human cells" (2009) http://onlinelibrary...09.00487.x/full
• 1000 mg/day (15 mg/kg) in a 52 year old (n=1) increased (peak, after 8 hours) plasma concentrations of
  • NAD+ by 317%
  • NAM by 75% (from 0.8 to 1.4 �M) 
• Dose responses of NR chloride (in vivo, n=12) increased
  • NAM by 62% for 300 mg NR
  • NAM by 140% for 1000 mg NR
• Predose plasma concentration of NAM in the n=12 experiments ranged from 0.2 to 0.55 �M, and from 0.7 to 0.8 �M  in the 52 year old, indicating a wide range.
• NAM levels rose to a range of 0.6 to 0.85 �M for 1000 mg NR in the n=12 experiment.
• NR increases NAD+ in a dose-dependent manner.
• NR has a serum half life of about 4 hours.

 

From these data points and other facts I can surmise that

• My normal dose of NR at 250 mg twice per day with 50 mg pterostilbene should be sufficient to maintain a generally healthy population of mitochondria.
• While NR induces mitophagy, it has not shown in vivo results as impressive as Urolithin-A, which implies that additional mitophagy might be possible beyond those shown with 300 to 1000 mg doses of NR.
• 500 mg every 6 hours for 5 days (2 gm/day) might further increase mitophagy and cause a substantial clearance of defective mitochondria.

 

Experiment #1

Hypothesis: 500 mg (about 7.5 mg/kg) every 6 hours (2 gm/day) for 6 days might induce mitophagy and cause substantial clearance of defective mitochondria.

 

Test: NR is well tolerated at 1 gm/day (clinical trial), and at 2.5 gm/day (anecdotal) and showed no adverse conditions in mice at 400 mg/kg/day ( 32 gm/day HED, FDA submission).  Since it appears safe, and since there are no in vivo experiments on inducing mitophagy with NR, taking about 4 gm/day should give clear results if this treatment works.

 

NR is packaged in 125 mg capsules.  Taking 10 capsules (1250 mg) three times per day is a total daily dose of 3750 mg.  This amount is nearly twice the 2000 mg/day does I estimate from in vitro data that is needed to induce mitophagy.  In the absence of in vivo data, along with general safety of NR, this higher dose appears warranted, particularly since treatment with Urolithin A showed a significant 42% increase in running endurance in aged rats, which is a better performance increase than I have seen reported for NR and suggests that greater levels of mitophagy are possible.

 

2016-09-28  Day 1. Begin taking 10 capsules (1250 mg) three times per day. I have not taken C60-OO for a month or, for 10 days, any supplements or medications .

2016-09-29  Day 2 AM: My skin is definitely smoother and I have more energy, the kind of energy and sense of health and well being one feels in youth.  Otherwise there are no apparent side effects.  Smoother skin is not something I anticipated, but it is consistent with research showing cells returning to normal shape when (aged or dysfunctional) mitochondria is removed. 

�Mitochondria shown to trigger cell ageing� (2016) http://www.ncl.ac.uk...ggercellageing/,http://emboj.embopre...ontent/35/7/724

Late afternoon - my face has the feeling of being slightly flushed, as if I were taking a niacin.

2016-09-30   Day 3. Woke up with a headache, otherwise OK.  The headache could have been caused by dehydration.  It went away after drinking water and a cup of coffee. My muscles feel firmer and stronger: I am slouching less when sitting.  This sensation is probably related to increased ATP production and other benefits of NR, and not related to mitophagy.

2016-10-01  Day 4. The ambient temperature is 76� and I feel slightly cold.  Less body heat generation is consistent with reduced mitochondrial mass.  I feel no other symptoms.

2016-10-02  Day 5. Today is the fifth of this treatment.  I am unusually clear minded.  As for other symptoms, there is a slight feeling of niacin-like flushing when I take NR, otherwise nothing.  Since in vitro experiments should additional decrease in mitochondrial mass through 7 days of treatment, I plan to continue taking NR for one or two more days. 

�Nicotinamide enhances mitochondria quality through autophagy activation in human cells" (2009)http://onlinelibrary...09.00487.x/full 

2016-10-03  Day 6 and final day of this treatment.  My muscles feel small, inadequate and ache, which is consistent with significant decrease in mitochondria.  Otherwise I feel OK. General autophagy does not seem to be affected, as lipofuscin deposits on my hands remain the same.  Another observation is that my sense of smell has been unusually acute for the last several days.  My mitochondrial mass should be reduced by about 30% by the end of today if in vitro measurement results are an accurate indication.

2016-10-04  Day 7.  Took 10 mg PQQ about 7 AM, which should stimulate mitogenesis and restore my mass of mitochondria back to normal within hours.  Noontime: Other than muscle aches, I feel good, energetic and healthy.

2016-10-04  Day 8.  I feel  completely normal.

2016-10-05  Day 9.  I feel energetic.

2016-10-06  Day 10.   I feel even more energetic and my skin is noticeably smoother on my arms and face.  This treatment is unequivocally beneficial. 

 

 

Other thoughts

1. mtDNA 4977 bp deletion has been shown to increase at and average rate (in years) t 0.0002 exp(0.042 t)   �Mitochondrial DNA 4977 bp deletion is a common phenomenon in hair and increases with age� (2012)  http://www.ncbi.nlm....les/PMC4362429/
2. Measurements of averaged accumulation of dysfunctional mitochondria bely much higher concentrations in aged and postmitotic cells.
3. If in vitro tests are any indication, the experiment I described above should have reduced my mitochondria mass by an estimated 30%
4. Since dysfunctional mitochondria are preferentially recycled, as 30% reduction in mass might correspond to a 60% reduction in the mass of dysfunctional mitochondria (just a guess, assuming twice rate).
5. Then 3 treatments should reduced dysfunctional mitochondria by 65%, or by about 20 years average accumulation.  6 treatments would reduce dysfunctional mitochondria by about 89%, equal to about 50 years average accumulation. 

I am 61 years old.

•  Well Written x 1
•  Informative x 1
•  like x 1 

 

Edited by APBT, 28 October 2016 - 02:09 AM.

[APBT]

Part 2 of Fafner55's intriguing experiment:  http://www.longecity...e-3#entry793602

 

 

 

 

Fafner55

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Posted Today, 05:33 PM

Experiment #2: Inducing Mitophagy with NR

The improvements to my skin from personal Experiment #1 have persisted. It is clear at this point that the benefits from that experiment are not transitory.  

 

This experiment repeats Experiment #1 to determine the extent further improvement is possible.

 

2016-10-19  Day 1. Begin taking 10 capsules (1250 mg) three times per day. I have not taken C60-OO or any supplements or medications  for a two weeks.

2016-10-20  Day 2. Like Experiment #1, my face feels very slightly flushed, as if I were taking a niacin.  There is no apparent difference in my skin.

2016-10-21  Day 3. Mid-day: My muscles feel more toned than usual but not stronger.  There is a slight feeling of flushing soon after I take NR.  Otherwise, I feel no symptoms.  PM: the skin on my arms appears smoother.

2016-10-22  Day 4. There is continued improvement to the skin on my arms, with fewer bumps and less discoloration. I feel normal, without muscle aches or other symptoms.

2016-10-23  Day 5. I feel colder and low energy, and otherwise without symptoms.  

2016-10-24  Day 6. Feeling a bit low energy and possibly have some weakness in my legs, but otherwise about normal.  There is no muscle ache like there was with Experiment #1. Remarkably, many of the smaller stucco keratoses on my hands and wrists have disappeared. The larger ones are flatter.  I noticed some recession of these keratoses in Experiment #1 but was not certain and didn't document it. I have had these keratoses for about 20 years; they resisted all attempts at treatment until now. Incidentally, my skin still has about the same degree of fine wrinkles and crepe-like appearance as before, from which I can infer that large doses of NR have little if any effect on collagen production.

2016-10-25  Day 7.  Yesterday was the last day of the treatment.  I’m pleased with the improvement to the appearance of my skin.  Today I feel good and more energetic.  IMHO, there is no benefit in following this treatment with PQQ.

2016-10-26  Day 8.  Following the pattern of Experiment #1, I feel normal.  There is substantial improvement to the appearance of skin on my hands, wrists and arms.  On close inspection, while the larger stucco keratoses on my hands are still present, they are flatter than before. 

2016-10-27  Day 9. I feel  normal.

 

The effects of NR are so wide reaching that I can't see that it is possible to assign these observations positively to mitophagy.  However, low energy is consistent with a reduction in mitochondrial mass.

•  Informative x 1
•  
•  

 

Edited by APBT, 28 October 2016 - 02:09 AM.

[ymc]

https://www.ncbi.nlm...pubmed/27594836

 

If NR is so good, why does Sinclair still obsess about NMN???

[Harkijn]

For those who do not have the time to read the research paper much under discussion now in the Curated thread, I copy paste below the data on the occurrence of NMN in various foodstuffs. We are speaking of minute amounts here, but small changes in our long term eating habits may provide a better basis for our NR supplementation. I for one was aware of edamame but never ate it. Now I realize it is for sale anuwhere in my country and easily prepared.

 

Table 1. NMN Is Present in Various Types of Natural Food

 

Food Type Name mg/100 g-Food Vegetable edamame 0.47–1.88 Vegetable broccoli 0.25–1.12 Vegetable cucumber seed 0.56 cucumber peel 0.65 Vegetable cabbage 0.0–0.90 Fruit avocado 0.36–1.60 Fruit tomato 0.26–0.30 Other mushroom 0.0–1.01 Meat beef (raw) 0.06–0.42 Seafood shrimp 0.22 NMN was extracted from each food and measured by HPLC. Several different sources were examined for some foods, showing ranges of values.

[jjgallow]

For those who do not have the time to read the research paper much under discussion now in the Curated thread, I copy paste below the data on the occurrence of NMN in various foodstuffs. We are speaking of minute amounts here, but small changes in our long term eating habits may provide a better basis for our NR supplementation. I for one was aware of edamame but never ate it. Now I realize it is for sale anuwhere in my country and easily prepared.

 

Table 1. NMN Is Present in Various Types of Natural Food

 

Food Type Name mg/100 g-Food Vegetable edamame 0.47–1.88 Vegetable broccoli 0.25–1.12 Vegetable cucumber seed 0.56 cucumber peel 0.65 Vegetable cabbage 0.0–0.90 Fruit avocado 0.36–1.60 Fruit tomato 0.26–0.30 Other mushroom 0.0–1.01 Meat beef (raw) 0.06–0.42 Seafood shrimp 0.22 NMN was extracted from each food and measured by HPLC. Several different sources were examined for some foods, showing ranges of values.

 

That is really good information.    However, this also equates to eating 25 kg of edemame per day (for those of us taking 250mg of NR).

 

I'm not discounting it....its definitely something to keep in mind if it is determined that far smaller doses are equally beneficial in the long term.....

[Harkijn]

 

For those who do not have the time to read the research paper much under discussion now in the Curated thread, I copy paste below the data on the occurrence of NMN in various foodstuffs. We are speaking of minute amounts here, but small changes in our long term eating habits may provide a better basis for our NR supplementation. I for one was aware of edamame but never ate it. Now I realize it is for sale anuwhere in my country and easily prepared.

 

Table 1. NMN Is Present in Various Types of Natural Food

 

Food Type Name mg/100 g-Food Vegetable edamame 0.47–1.88 Vegetable broccoli 0.25–1.12 Vegetable cucumber seed 0.56 cucumber peel 0.65 Vegetable cabbage 0.0–0.90 Fruit avocado 0.36–1.60 Fruit tomato 0.26–0.30 Other mushroom 0.0–1.01 Meat beef (raw) 0.06–0.42 Seafood shrimp 0.22 NMN was extracted from each food and measured by HPLC. Several different sources were examined for some foods, showing ranges of values.

 

That is really good information.    However, this also equates to eating 25 kg of edemame per day (for those of us taking 250mg of NR).

 

I'm not discounting it....its definitely something to keep in mind if it is determined that far smaller doses are equally beneficial in the long term.....

 

JJ, I would never imply that anyone should  supplement 25kgs edamame/day! (It is the Experience thread, remember?) However,  moderately upping the amount of NMN (not in this case NR) in diet may have a positive influence on on total NAD+ . Eating avocado, tomato, cucumber peel, may provide a basis for taking NR. Let's remember that dosing, timing,  etcetera of  NR  supplements are still under discussion.

[Nate-2004]

harkijn why would miniscule amounts from dietary sources be any better than a full blown supplement? Studies are consistently showing levels of NAD peak at a 50% boost with diminishing returns after 300mg of NR, but even 125mg is doesn't boost it enough, why would half a milligram help after eating a ridiculous amount of edamame every single day? Not only would it be tiring to eat edamame day in and day out, but it seems quite inefficient. 

[stefan_001]

 

 

For those who do not have the time to read the research paper much under discussion now in the Curated thread, I copy paste below the data on the occurrence of NMN in various foodstuffs. We are speaking of minute amounts here, but small changes in our long term eating habits may provide a better basis for our NR supplementation. I for one was aware of edamame but never ate it. Now I realize it is for sale anuwhere in my country and easily prepared.

 

Table 1. NMN Is Present in Various Types of Natural Food

 

Food Type Name mg/100 g-Food Vegetable edamame 0.47–1.88 Vegetable broccoli 0.25–1.12 Vegetable cucumber seed 0.56 cucumber peel 0.65 Vegetable cabbage 0.0–0.90 Fruit avocado 0.36–1.60 Fruit tomato 0.26–0.30 Other mushroom 0.0–1.01 Meat beef (raw) 0.06–0.42 Seafood shrimp 0.22 NMN was extracted from each food and measured by HPLC. Several different sources were examined for some foods, showing ranges of values.

 

That is really good information.    However, this also equates to eating 25 kg of edemame per day (for those of us taking 250mg of NR).

 

I'm not discounting it....its definitely something to keep in mind if it is determined that far smaller doses are equally beneficial in the long term.....

 

JJ, I would never imply that anyone should  supplement 25kgs edamame/day! (It is the Experience thread, remember?) However,  moderately upping the amount of NMN (not in this case NR) in diet may have a positive influence on on total NAD+ . Eating avocado, tomato, cucumber peel, may provide a basis for taking NR. Let's remember that dosing, timing,  etcetera of  NR  supplements are still under discussion.

 

It would be interesting if they measure the Mediterranean diet for NMN content or the Japanese average intake. But even if there is some correlation it is not going to get me to an age of 100 with a 40s body and mind.

[jjgallow]

harkijn why would miniscule amounts from dietary sources be any better than a full blown supplement? Studies are consistently showing levels of NAD peak at a 50% boost with diminishing returns after 300mg of NR, but even 125mg is doesn't boost it enough, why would half a milligram help after eating a ridiculous amount of edamame every single day? Not only would it be tiring to eat edamame day in and day out, but it seems quite inefficient. 

 

Despite harkijn's somewhat passive aggressive / patronizing / condescending reply, I think the edamame post was valuable.   It just needs a disclaimer.  "miniscule" doesn't quite cut it.

 

There is  a LOT we don't know about NR / NMN, and, sure there could be something to it.  Maybe the dosage IS enough.  Maybe it's more bioavailable.

 

Never hurts to have the occasional post pointing out that it's good to eat healthy...maybe better than we know.  Who's to say we don't look back at this 10 years from now as common sense genius?

 

But it needs a full disclaimer because Somebody Will...100%, skim over that post and start buying Way too much Edamame than could possibly be healthy for a human being Not looking for a sex change, etc.

 

 

[Harkijn]

harkijn why would miniscule amounts from dietary sources be any better than a full blown supplement? Studies are consistently showing levels of NAD peak at a 50% boost with diminishing returns after 300mg of NR, but even 125mg is doesn't boost it enough, why would half a milligram help after eating a ridiculous amount of edamame every single day? Not only would it be tiring to eat edamame day in and day out, but it seems quite inefficient. 

The  why is under discussion right now in the Curated thread. How is NMN from dietary sources absorbed into the human bloodstream, and after that in the human tissues?  Now how could we change our lifestyle in order to spend less money on (NR) supplements? This would not involve large amounts of edamame ( would it have been better if had mentioned avocados, tomatoes ?) but switching our diet emphasis to a number of foods that may be ingested throughout the day and week. These foods (perhaps more than those I posted about) might provide a basis that will make extra supplementation more effective and cheaper.( Here's one totally unscientific remark about NAD+ levels  btw: in the near future the question will not be about when it peaks how high but how you prevent to sink it low)

[Harkijn]

harkijn why would miniscule amounts from dietary sources be any better than a full blown supplement? Studies are consistently showing levels of NAD peak at a 50% boost with diminishing returns after 300mg of NR, but even 125mg is doesn't boost it enough, why would half a milligram help after eating a ridiculous amount of edamame every single day? Not only would it be tiring to eat edamame day in and day out, but it seems quite inefficient. 

Nate, we have exchanged opinions before so I trust you don't think me condescending etc. My opinion is just my opinion and yours is yours . Looks like  there is a troll here.

[Bryan_S]

Everyone lets knock it down a notch. Those who push the anti-aging solution angle are making false claims until there is firm research to support this conclusion, which there is none for humans. I've rejected this notion form the very beginning and its become buried in the marketing of some venders wanting your shekels. If the data proves out in humans as it has in mice than maybe we can suggest it might add some healthier years. This is why the double blind placebo controlled studies are so important.

 

To me the animal data "suggests" it could help "health span" beyond that lets keep the conversation about the data from the recent studies on NR, NMN and the related studies.

 

Obviously there are 2 research camps forming and a research competition between NR and NMN is developing. One camp already laid the groundwork to commercialization and I believe a second group ultimately wants a slice of that market. And of course there is some well intentioned unbiased research to sort out the questions and that's what I'm interested in reading.

 

Already people are discussing taking both. I think its obvious there are those who want to develop a cost effective competitive market in this newer molecule however I can't say I've seen any data to suggest the new molecule would be better than the established one.

 

I can't take sides and will post both sides of the story and let this play out but it appears one group has drawn a line in the sand and said the supporting biochemistry isn't there to suggest a dedicated path for this other molecule. The other group is still hopeful they'll triumph and find a dedicated transporter for their molecule.

 

Its going to get interesting in the months to come.

 

At least that's the way I see it. As always JMHO

[playground]

https://www.ncbi.nlm...pubmed/27594836

 

If NR is so good, why does Sinclair still obsess about NMN???

 

because he knows of the research showing that NR

can encourage the growth of certain types of pathogen.

[Harkijn]

Everyone lets knock it down a notch. Those who push the anti-aging solution angle are making false claims until there is firm research to support this conclusion, which there is none for humans. I've rejected this notion form the very beginning and its become buried in the marketing of some venders wanting your shekels. If the data proves out in humans as it has in mice than maybe we can suggest it might add some healthier years. This is why the double blind placebo controlled studies are so important.

 

To me the animal data "suggests" it could help "health span" beyond that lets keep the conversation about the data from the recent studies on NR, NMN and the related studies.

 

Obviously there are 2 research camps forming and a research competition between NR and NMN is developing. One camp already laid the groundwork to commercialization and I believe a second group ultimately wants a slice of that market. And of course there is some well intentioned unbiased research to sort out the questions and that's what I'm interested in reading.

 

Already people are discussing taking both. I think its obvious there are those who want to develop a cost effective competitive market in this newer molecule however I can't say I've seen any data to suggest the new molecule would be better than the established one.

 

I can't take sides and will post both sides of the story and let this play out but it appears one group has drawn a line in the sand and said the supporting biochemistry isn't there to suggest a dedicated path for this other molecule. The other group is still hopeful they'll triumph and find a dedicated transporter for their molecule.

 

Its going to get interesting in the months to come.

 

At least that's the way I see it. As always JMHO

Our knowledgeable fellow traveler on TimelessLife also envisages an overlapping role for NMN and NR:

 

http://www.timelessl...o-cellular-nad/

 

He writes that NMN is not for sale. This is not completely correct but prices are forbidding. So until prices drop:let's eat some more selfmade guacamole....:-)

[Journey2016]

Hi im new here, i have been takong NR for a few months in the UK, ive had some great resualts and have been taking it for a diffrent reason to most people i can see on here.

As i couldnt afford the IV version(yet)

Ive been using it to aid addiction, and ive had amazing results. Just need to share

[Harkijn]

Hi im new here, i have been takong NR for a few months in the UK, ive had some great resualts and have been taking it for a diffrent reason to most people i can see on here.

As i couldnt afford the IV version(yet)

Ive been using it to aid addiction, and ive had amazing results. Just need to share

Thanks Journey, that's interesting. Do you mind sharing with us what type of addiction and what's your strategy?

[Journey2016]

As you may know by doing a small search online , NAD iv is being used with great effect to assist drug addiction.

After lots of research i ordered Niagen

I started taking 250mg in the morning and then moved on to another 250mg at night,

I found with in a few days it killed my craving for cocaine, i started to have more energy, almost like i had been drinking a mild coffee all day!

It made me feel great, happy , i went on to keep this up, i can easily say its the best ive felt since i was a young boy.

I started taking cocaine at 17 im 29 with a £200/£300 a week habit with everything to lose. There has not been a week go by were i hadnt used several times in over 10 years.

Soon as the niagen kicked in i feelt no need or desire to use or drink or even smoke as i just felt to good with in my self. I went on to complete 2weeks with no cocaine and that is a huge deal.

I then ran out of nigen and slipped, i have recently ordered a HUGE order of niagen and have just started again.

Amazing what i did for me, im told drug addicts have low NAD so maybe thats why i have such a strong reaction ..

I plan to do IV nad in London soon after getting a taster from the oral form it just makes sence.


I also have been playing around with a Nano amino acid for recovery, you swill it around your mouth to absorb it as it passess your blood barrier in your brain..: this also comes with great resualts ..

[APBT]

LINK TO ORIGINAL POST:  http://www.longecity...e-3#entry794346

 

 

 

 

Fafner55

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• Member
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Posted Today, 03:24 PM

Safety of 3750 mg / day NR for 6 days

Relating my experiments with large doses of NR to the study on mice described in http://www.ergo-log.com/safe-dose-of-nicotinamide-riboside.html, and given my 70 kg mass and daily dose of 3750 mg, the comparable rat equivalent dose (RED) is given by

 

RED (mg/kg) = Human Dose (mg/kg) x [Human Km/Animal Km ]

= (3750/70) (37/3)

= 660 mg/kg

 

A RED dose of 660 mg/kg/day falls about halfway between the 300 and 1000 mg/kg published results.  At the end of 90 days male rats in this range experienced about a 10% drop in weight (due to higher metabolism) and a slight increase in weight of the brain, kidney, liver and thymus.  I judge these changes to be positive.  At a higher dose of 1000 mg rats showed an increase in the concentration of white blood cells, which can be a sign of tissue damage.

 

From these results, it is likely that a dose of about 4000 mg per day for a week is safe in humans who weigh 70 kg. There may also be benefits to the brain, kidney, liver and thymus.

 

Edited by Fafner55, Today, 03:29 PM.

 

 

 

[Nate-2004]

I'm officially more than 6 months (almost 7 months) into NR supplementation. I began at more than 500mg a day and I've since cut back to 375mg after learning about the diminishing returns in NAD+ results, initially towards the lunch hour but more recently in the morning on an empty stomach. 

 

I reported some cramping earlier in the thread, that was apparently unrelated and has since gone away after making sure that I stretch during and after workouts.

 

I still get charlie horses now and then in my feet but that was happening long before NR. Supposedly these kinds of cramps can happen due to a buildup of lactic acid hence the stretching, magnesium doesn't hurt either.

 

Just to throw a wrench into the experiment, however, I started a cycle of MK-677 about 3 weeks ago and the results have been pretty staggering at the gym, especially in regards to my lower back pain and weight lifting. The lower back pain is diminished by about half and I'm able to lift quite a bit more than I was before. I'm slowly increasing the weight by 5lbs every other day (hypertrophy style training) and so far I've not hit much of a limit. Most noticeable are upper body but squats are also greatly improved, I plan to focus on lower body as much as I can through this cycle.

 

I wondered if MK-677 on top of NR would have some kind of synergy and without dropping the NR I can't say, but there is definitely a difference after adding it.

 

I am also trying to get my hands on some legit GDF-11 at some point soon to start just after the MK-677 cycle ends.

Edited by Nate-2004, 05 November 2016 - 05:07 PM.

[Harkijn]

I'm officially more than 6 months (almost 7 months) into NR supplementation. I began at more than 500mg a day and I've since cut back to 375mg after learning about the diminishing returns in NAD+ results, initially towards the lunch hour but more recently in the morning on an empty stomach. 

 

I reported some cramping earlier in the thread, that was apparently unrelated and has since gone away after making sure that I stretch during and after workouts.

 

I still get charlie horses now and then in my feet but that was happening long before NR. Supposedly these kinds of cramps can happen due to a buildup of lactic acid hence the stretching, magnesium doesn't hurt either.

 

Just to throw a wrench into the experiment, however, I started a cycle of MK-677 about 3 weeks ago and the results have been pretty staggering at the gym, especially in regards to my lower back pain and weight lifting. The lower back pain is diminished by about half and I'm able to lift quite a bit more than I was before. I'm slowly increasing the weight by 5lbs every other day (hypertrophy style training) and so far I've not hit much of a limit. Most noticeable are upper body but squats are also greatly improved, I plan to focus on lower body as much as I can through this cycle.

 

I wondered if MK-677 on top of NR would have some kind of synergy and without dropping the NR I can't say, but there is definitely a difference after adding it.

 

I am also trying to get my hands on some legit GDF-11 at some point soon to start just after the MK-677 cycle ends.

Nate, I am glad you are making such progress. I on my part am wondering if the aspartic acid I have been taking for some time  adds to te NR  feeling of wellbeing. 

In some threads you mentioned essential tremor. Does MK-677 help you with that? My hands tremble slightly and I hope to put an end to that....

[Nate-2004]

Nate, I am glad you are making such progress. I on my part am wondering if the aspartic acid I have been taking for some time  adds to te NR  feeling of wellbeing. 

 

 

In some threads you mentioned essential tremor. Does MK-677 help you with that? My hands tremble slightly and I hope to put an end to that....

 

 

I have had a feeling of well being for quite some time now, not sure what it is but could be the NR.

 

The MK-677 sadly does nothing for tremor. I'm only 3 weeks in though so we shall see what other benefits I get besides muscle power. 

[rwoodin]

NR definitely effects me. Increased alertness, increased energy but a little edgy.

Been taking Thorne Labs Niacell 125mg for a couple weeks. Taking mostly one dose daily, sometimes two.

I've never had a supplement in the vitamin class effect me this way. It causes a pronounced change, mostly for the better, in mood and energy.

It does however, make me feel a little 'edgy'. Like a bit aggravated. It is hard to describe the feeling. It's not a drugged feeling. Actually, the only drug I've taken that I could maybe somewhat compare NR with is Ritalin, but it's been almost 20 years since I have taken that, so it is a bit of a reach in making a comparison.

I remember feeling similar when taking resveratrol. That stuff gave me definite joint and tendon problems. Have not used it since circa 2008.

I take Zoloft 150mg and Wellbutrin 300mg daily in the AM, for depression. I also take Quinipril 20mg, Lipitor 20mg, Omeprazole 20mg, Lunesta 3mg, Hydroxyzine 50mg at bedtime.

The 'boost' from NR was most pronounced when I first started taking it, but every day, I can 'feel' the energy within an hour after dosing. 

Just a thought - teeth grinding is partly how I would describe the increased energy. I'll stick with NR for now. One other thought, if the increase in energy is dose dependant, I couldn't imagine being able to stand taking 1 or 2 grams of this stuff. I'd be stuck to the ceiling.

Edited by rwoodin, 05 November 2016 - 08:23 PM.

[rwoodin]

As you may know by doing a small search online , NAD iv is being used with great effect to assist drug addiction.

After lots of research i ordered Niagen

I started taking 250mg in the morning and then moved on to another 250mg at night,

I found with in a few days it killed my craving for cocaine, i started to have more energy, almost like i had been drinking a mild coffee all day!

It made me feel great, happy , i went on to keep this up, i can easily say its the best ive felt since i was a young boy.

I started taking cocaine at 17 im 29 with a £200/£300 a week habit with everything to lose. There has not been a week go by were i hadnt used several times in over 10 years.

Soon as the niagen kicked in i feelt no need or desire to use or drink or even smoke as i just felt to good with in my self. I went on to complete 2weeks with no cocaine and that is a huge deal.

I then ran out of nigen and slipped, i have recently ordered a HUGE order of niagen and have just started again.

Amazing what i did for me, im told drug addicts have low NAD so maybe thats why i have such a strong reaction ..

I plan to do IV nad in London soon after getting a taster from the oral form it just makes sence.


I also have been playing around with a Nano amino acid for recovery, you swill it around your mouth to absorb it as it passess your blood barrier in your brain..: this also comes with great resualts ..

 

Hope it keeps working for you. I've been sober 18 years and abused many stimulants back in the day. I would never want to repeat the experience.

[jjgallow]

Has anyone figured out why some of the manufacturers recommend ceasing NR for 3 days after taking it for a month?  Does anyone do this?

[jjnz]

I think they are presuming/assuming a benefit from a drug Holiday, never seen any evidence that NR requires one.I missed a week, noticed less energy and obviously better when restarting, but hard to tell, very subjective

Edited by jjnz, 07 November 2016 - 06:11 AM.

[aribadabar]

NR definitely effects me. Increased alertness, increased energy but a little edgy.

 

I take Zoloft 150mg and Wellbutrin 300mg daily in the AM, for depression. I also take Quinipril 20mg, Lipitor 20mg, Omeprazole 20mg, Lunesta 3mg, Hydroxyzine 50mg at bedtime.

The 'boost' from NR was most pronounced when I first started taking it, but every day, I can 'feel' the energy within an hour after dosing. 

 

The statins shot your mitochondria - it is to be expected that a NAD+ booster would help in this case. If you can replace them with 2x500mg niacin/nicotinic acid (NA) - do it ( after a loading dose to acclimate to the flush). You will benefit from the cholesterol-lowering effect of NA AND you will get another NAD+ precursor which is also much cheaper than NR.

[yucca06]

As you may know by doing a small search online , NAD iv is being used with great effect to assist drug addiction.

After lots of research i ordered Niagen

I started taking 250mg in the morning and then moved on to another 250mg at night,

I found with in a few days it killed my craving for cocaine, i started to have more energy, almost like i had been drinking a mild coffee all day!

It made me feel great, happy , i went on to keep this up, i can easily say its the best ive felt since i was a young boy.

I started taking cocaine at 17 im 29 with a £200/£300 a week habit with everything to lose. There has not been a week go by were i hadnt used several times in over 10 years.

Soon as the niagen kicked in i feelt no need or desire to use or drink or even smoke as i just felt to good with in my self. I went on to complete 2weeks with no cocaine and that is a huge deal.

I then ran out of nigen and slipped, i have recently ordered a HUGE order of niagen and have just started again.

Amazing what i did for me, im told drug addicts have low NAD so maybe thats why i have such a strong reaction ..

I plan to do IV nad in London soon after getting a taster from the oral form it just makes sence.


I also have been playing around with a Nano amino acid for recovery, you swill it around your mouth to absorb it as it passess your blood barrier in your brain..: this also comes with great resualts ..

I don't feel anything from NR supplementation : (250mg Thorne, up to 500 for a few days, then back to 250) along with 100mg Pterostilbene for 2months.

no cramps, no more energy, but I used to drink a glass or two of whisky every night, and couldnt really stop it. With NR, I don't have cravings for alcool anymore...it totally disappeared.

Edited by yucca06, 07 November 2016 - 11:54 AM.