2266 replies to this topic

[soulprogrammer]

Sharing my sister experience UPDATE:

 

 

Week1

After taking NR 275mg/day for 1 week, now her constipation seems to improve. Really unexpected though. I mean I really can't relate the connection between constipation and NAD+. I was expecting she said something like feel more energetic, feel better sleep, etc....but she said constipation improve and getting better! of course, she doesn't have problem sleeping and constipation is her only main concern for long time...still...

 

Week2

Feel more stamina after gym, not feeling like tired or soreness after gym.

 

Week3

Stopped for 5 days due to outstation trip. No adverse feeling so far. Retake NR started today.

 

Week4

Feel energetic and sometimes sleep almost at 2 am, but surprisingly wake up with full of energy throughout the next day. Constipation improve a bit. Reduce weight. No vivid dream. More stamina, won't feel tired as before NR days.  Do note that she doesn't even know what she is taking, I gave her a bottle and just told her it is a supplement like Vitamin B. Now she is asking how much and want to order to continue to take it. I believe that is really a positive sign because this things are not cheap. She was surprised when I told her the price of one bottle, so expensive she said, but she still want to consider to take it after finishing the bottle.

 

 

Age: 57, Female, Healthy, gym 1-2 times a week. pre-diabetic, BP on high side (still normal). long time constipation problem.

[maxwatt]

Wouldn't rectal administration result in more bioavailability than oral? Nobody has commented on this, since its not a cheap substance.

 

Vaginal could work too, if you have one.

[sthira]

Wouldn't rectal administration result in more bioavailability than oral? Nobody has commented on this, since its not a cheap substance.

Vaginal could work too, if you have one.

And if you don't have a vagina, dumping into the meatus could also work; maybe you'll need tiny tools, though.

[Harkijn]

Those who have followed this thread will be aware that I have been posting my NR experiences for two years now. 200 mgs/day NR help me to get more physical activity. I am feeling very fit for a 65 year old and that is enough for me. I mean I did not expect any 'age reversal' and did not get it. However I lost a lot of fat and gained a lot of muscle (and probably bone and tendon density).

Some weeks ago I did not take NR for two weeks, just to see what would happen. The first four or five days I noticed no difference, but then recuperation after going to the gym got slower and upon waking up in the morning I felt less well rested than before. Since five days I am taking NR again and I feel fine.

Alas! Nothing spectacular to report to you! But if you are looking for spellbinding stories look here:

http://www.timelessl...in-30s-forever/

[jjnz]

It's occurred to me after reading this

http://www.timelessl...ibits-sirt12-3/

That the large discrepancies we see in effect might be due, in part, to coffee consumption. We might benefit therefore by adding coffee consumption to the metrics we submit when making our observations

[Gingerbread Man]

It's occurred to me after reading this

http://www.timelessl...ibits-sirt12-3/

That the large discrepancies we see in effect might be due, in part, to coffee consumption. We might benefit therefore by adding coffee consumption to the metrics we submit when making our observations

Very interesting, after reading that it got me thinking. I don't drink coffee but I do consume a large quantity of caffeine daily. I was curious how caffeine may impact things like sirtuins etc... I stumbled across this fascinating article, it may have been posted elsewhere but I thought I would share.

 

http://www.anti-agin...fights-aging-2/

 

I found of particular interest this part about caffeine:

 

• Caffeine activates Autophagy – Caffeine can activate autophagy via an mTOR-dependent mechanism

Wondering if my caffeine consumption is helping my NR and Ubiquinol protocol work better in me than it may in others as well. Also being a diabetic that injects drugs for my insulin issues it is interesting to see how insulin plays a part as well.

[soulprogrammer]

@Qrazy  Is NR help you to reduce your insulin dose? Or reduce your insulin resistance/blood glucose? What other effects (positive and negative) you find after taking NR for so long?

Edited by soulprogrammer, 30 March 2017 - 01:08 PM.

[Gingerbread Man]

@Qrazy  Is NR help you to reduce your insulin dose? Or reduce your insulin resistance/blood glucose? What other effects (positive and negative) you find after taking NR for so long?

My glucose isn't controlled enough where I can tell if it is affecting it or not. Diabetic for about 17 years now, it certainly doesn't seem to affect it negatively though. As or my other effects, I have posted them in this thread over the last 10 pages or so.

 

I will say that I noticed something very unusual a couple of months ago, which after coming up with a hypothesis I had a friend try it and he noticed a difference too. I started out taking tablet forms of NR, first 75 mg, then 100 mg (Jarrow) and eventually switched to HPN capsules 125 mg. Over a period of time taking my Ubiquinol/Niagen bedtime dose I noticed it was still working well for my sleeping but not quite the drop out sleeping I was remembering having when I first started taking it. Then I happened upon an opened bottle of the Jarrow tablets 100 mg that I had left in the kitchen and thought, well, I should use these up as I have several bottles of the HPN on the shelf to go through (Group buy from here). So I took on of them with my Ubiquinol and went to sleep.... My sleep was noticeably better and deeper. I thought that can't be right, it has 25 mg less NR, must have been a coincidence. So I tried it again and still slept better. So I then went back to the HPN 125 mg before bed and slept well but not as good. tried this for a few more days and every time I used the Jarrow 100 mg I slept better! The only thing I could think of is the Jarrow 100 mg is a tablet not a capsule. I think the capsule dissolves and dumps all the NR at one where the tablet is slower to dissolve and releases it more like a time release. I told a friend that I noticed better sleep with the tablet form. He ordered some and he has also experienced the same effect (he also takes Ubiquinol with the bed time dose). So now, I take the HPN capsules during the day and the Jarrow at bed time and it has been working great for the last 2 weeks! 

[ambivalent]

Each year for a few years around this time of year I would get some sort of an allergic reaction which might last a couple of months, I never treated it or had it diagnosed. But for the last few years it has not occurred, this I have put down to fasting and a healthy diet high fruit and veg. However this has altered dramatically this year and the reaction has been far worse (though different - runny nose, sneezing, though symptoms were initially the same as previous years - persistent coughing) - so possibly a different reaction. The symptoms appeared to match hay-fever. Today, for the first time, I've taken some ante-histamine (loratadine) and gained considerable relief.

 

Initially I put this down to the fact that my diet has been poor for several months: low fruit and veg, higher sugar, increased wheat and dairy and much less fasting and, quite importantly, my environment (the same as this time last year though): I'm out in the countryside for several weeks.  

 

However, there is a another significant factor: for around 5 weeks I've averaged around 3-4 grams a day of NR, with perhaps 3-400 mg of Trans Ptero, with a lot of Tumeric and Sulforophane. There has been the occasional NR-free day and doses as high 7.5g/ day. I certainly notice very good effects in the beginning on both skin and mental clarity but not so much lately. Recently dosing has lowered and  I've taken some c60oo.

 

I decided quickly to search to see if NR might have been the problem and found this:

 

http://orthomolecula...v17n01-p017.pdf

 

Both forms of vitamin B3, nicotinic acid (niacin) and nicotinamide (niacinamide), are necessary to counteract the clinical problems associated with high blood histamine. When histamine levels are in excess, the enzyme nicotinamide-adenosine dinucleotidase (NADase) catalyzes the removal of a nicotinamide moiety from nicotinamide-adenosine dinucleotide (NAD) and irreversibly replaces it with a molecule of histamine. The net effect of excess histamine would be increased production of histamine-adenosine dinucleotide (HAD), an inert compound devoid of the energetic properties of NAD.

 

​​Any thoughts on this and how I should get these levels down? Might this explain why the effects have of NAD have worn off - I'm producing inert HAD with my excess NAD, but why such high levels of histamine?

 

Thanks in advance.

 

edit: while searching fond this, perhaps of interest: https://www.ncbi.nlm...ubmed/14646967 

 

This person reported that NR raised histamine levels 18 months ago in this thread and cited this paper as evidence that excess nicotinamide increases histamine:

 

https://www.ncbi.nlm...pubmed/23426511

 

So, can someone explain this, are these different mechanisms? As I understand it NR is raising NAD levels combats excess histamine, depleting NAD in the process, but also raising histamine levels.

 

I note the guy in the article referenced earlier today who is getting great results is taking gingko biloba, which contains quercetin, which reduces histamine. So, groping rather ignorantly, is not feasible that some of us might be running to stand still by using up the NAD NR is producing only to combat the excess histamine generated?

 

I wonder if this might explain why I was washed out for a few days while high dosing. Some have assumed this tiredness/crashing  to be a consequence of mitophagy, but perhaps it was a result of depleting substantial reserves of NAD to combat histamine.

 

Presumably I should take now some methylation supplement? Suggestions?

[PeaceAndProsperity]

This person reported that NR raised histamine levels 18 months ago in this thread and cited this paper as evidence that excess nicotinamide increases histamine:

Could the histamine interaction be why one user reported a loss of libido from NR, on this subforum?

 

[MikeDC]

NR raised histamine levels 18 months ago [/url]in this thread and cited this paper as evidence that excess nicotinamide increases histamine:

Could the histamine interaction be why one user reported a loss of libido from NR, on this subforum?

You obviously have an agenda against Niagen. Get lost!

Edited by MikeDC, 30 March 2017 - 11:19 PM.

[soulprogrammer]

One noob question : Should I store my NR in fridge?

[SearchHorizon]

Based on what has been said so far, for many, there appears to be a period of time while taking NR does some good, and then, one crosses into "a dubious zone." This suggests overdosing (over time). So, my question is, do we need to take NR less frequently? (once every few days?).

Edited by SearchHorizon, 01 April 2017 - 02:31 PM.

[soulprogrammer]

Personal Experience:

 

I started taking NR 1 week ago. Feel energy increase a lot, sleep better, rather than go to toilet 3 times after sleep, now only 1 time. Something usual is now sensory perception feel much sharper. In one case during last week, I accidentally injured my face during shaving. The pain that I felt is soooo sharp, this kind of sharp pain during shaving cut (happen quite often during shaving) I remembered only happened more 10+ years ago. Now I got back the same feeling.

 

Touch wood, my acid reflux seems like no more for now, only 1 week though, we will see.  Those who want to know about libido, no change as of now. 

 

Sadly, I still have my white hairs. Skin no improvement so far, hope for the best though.

 

Will test my stamina this week. I have been doing push up for quite long time, I want to see if there is any improvement in my push up and flank test.

 

 

[soulprogrammer]

Based on what has been said so far, for many, there appears to be a period of time while taking NR does some good, and then, one crosses into "a dubious zone." This suggests overdosing (over time). So, my question is, do we need to take NR less frequently? (once every few days?).

 

I believe you should try to say after 1 bottle finish (about 1 month), stop for 1-2 weeks. Then only continue.Since increase level of NAD+ is repairing your old and worn cells, it is good for your body to take some rest after 1 month of rebuilding, I guess. Hopefully, it really rejuvenates our organs slowly.... 

 

Obviously, to know for sure, someone has to do a human clinical trial to do extensive tests, which unfortunately, won't happen for now and many years in the future. 

 

All we can do NOW, is to share our experience, and do our best guess with current research papers and available anecdotes evidences.

Edited by soulprogrammer, 03 April 2017 - 02:40 AM.

[MightyMouse]

 

 

 

Obviously, to know for sure, someone has to do a human clinical trial to do extensive tests, which unfortunately, won't happen for now and many years in the future. 

 

All we can do NOW, is to share our experience, and do our best guess with current research papers and available anecdotes evidences.

 

 

As I understand there are several NAD+ human trials ongoing and starting in near future. I'm not sure tho if any of those will concentrate on general health benefits or longevity effects. 

 

https://www.scienced...61010135418.htm

https://hms.harvard....mysteries-aging

http://www.brighaman...px?PageID= 1889

[ambivalent]

NAD & Histamine update:

 

Subsequent to my last post the confidence that NR raises histamine has raised considerably.  Now as little as 500mg provokes what appears to be an allergic response, similar to hayfever. Considerable coughing, tighness of chest and quite heavy brain fog as well as at time slightly runny nose and eyes. There a few things I've tried to improve the symptoms which do seem to have an effect (vitamin c first thing in the morning for the tighness of chest), niacin and Sodium Bicarb. I've also taken some L-methionine, quercetin, creatine (which may not have helped), asprin as well as anti-histamine.

 

I'm far from certain that the extremely high doses of NR ingested during the previous weeks is the predominant cause of this intolerance. As I mentioned in earlier post, although through good diet and fasting I have been spared in recent years, I regularly experienced what appeared to be seasonal allergies this time of year and this year I had not prepared my body well. So it could a minor or major contributory factor, but I am quite certain NR is playing a role in these allergic responses.

 

Hopefully, I've not developed an allergy to NR, as I stated I witnessed considerable benefits in the early stages of this high-dosing period. Cold turkey, is the diet for a while now, since despite taking decent doses of supplements to lower histamine levels, NR sensitivity remains high.

 

Even though, from what I've seen, only two have reported this (myself and someone very sensitive to histamine) effect with NR, assuming my assessment is correct, it could be affecting everyone just not noticeably. As I posted earlier, it appears NAD reacts with histamine, possibly created by NR, which would deplete NAD supplies and so diminish NR's effectiveness. So it would be interesting to know if those who've taken NR regularly witness a change in response when taking histamine-lowering supplements.

 

Possible NR anecdote: Today I picked at the toenail of my little toe, and the whole thing peeled off. It had not been in any distressed state and, once removed, there was only the slightest of tenderness on the surface. There is some thickish, protective, layer which doesn't appear much like a toe-nail, but I presume it could be the early formation of a new one. I've not experienced this before and although it doesn't look great it feels a somewhat naturally regenerative process. If the case then it is most likely due to the high-dosing of either NR, sulforaphane, trans-ptero or c60oo over the last couple of months.       

 

 

   

Edited by ambivalent, 03 April 2017 - 08:43 PM.

[soulprogrammer]

I don't understand, your linked paper mentioned (I didn't read the whole paper) nicotinamide reduces histamine in vitro. But now you suggest NR increases histamine? Shouldn't NR and nicotinamide has similar effects? 

[MikeDC]

Obviously, to know for sure, someone has to do a human clinical trial to do extensive tests, which unfortunately, won't happen for now and many years in the future.

All we can do NOW, is to share our experience, and do our best guess with current research papers and available anecdotes evidences.

As I understand there are several NAD+ human trials ongoing and starting in near future. I'm not sure tho if any of those will concentrate on general health benefits or longevity effects.

https://www.scienced...61010135418.htm
https://hms.harvard....mysteries-aging
http://www.brighaman...px?PageID= 1889

The CEO mentioned that a clinical study on health benefit of Niagen is in the process of being published.

[ambivalent]

I don't understand, your linked paper mentioned (I didn't read the whole paper) nicotinamide reduces histamine in vitro. But now you suggest NR increases histamine? Shouldn't NR and nicotinamide has similar effects? 

 

Hi SP,

 

Did you take a look at this guys post, I linked earlier?

 

 

It is a puzzle I am trying to understand but from this paper referenced in the post we have: 

 

Compared with those before nicotinamide load, five-hour postload plasma serotonin and histamine levels significantly increased.

 

Today I took a multi B and non-flush niacin today and the symptoms returned, flush niacin was not a problem when taken previously.

 

It seems the NAD reduces histamine it but nicotinamide increases it, presumably through methyl group degradation (if I understand it correctly), which presumably/possibly is a consequence of raised NAD levels - combatting the histamine, which is a little confusing.  

 

Speculating,  given the paper indicates serotonin levels increased in blood plasma, might it be that those undermethylated experience greater psychological benefits and perhaps explain some of the hit/miss nature of NR? 

Edited by ambivalent, 04 April 2017 - 04:18 PM.

[bluemoon]

 

The CEO mentioned that a clinical study on health benefit of Niagen is in the process of being published.

 

 

Here is what has been announced:

 

1) Elysium said last December that it will submit it's 120 person trial that was completed last summer for publication in a peer reviewed scientific journal.

 

2) Chromadex sued Elysium to pay for a sudden four times as large order of NR that happened to coincidence with half-way, 4 week period, of the summer where Elysium already knew where the 250mg and 500mg groups  were at  for non-payment. Elysium was trying to force the price of NR sold to them significantly.

 

3) The Chromadex CEO hinted two weeks ago at a stockholders webcast that its own trial was looking good and that it would post the detailed results in June or July. Elysium can put up its full results on its website at any time but so far has already waited 8 months. My guess has been that 500mg may have shown enough gains over the 250 mg group and aren't sure how to change the price accordingly.  

 

4) Once both results are known, we will have a much better idea how pterostilbine plays a part in improving measured health, if at all. 

[stefan_001]

 

 

The CEO mentioned that a clinical study on health benefit of Niagen is in the process of being published.

 

 

Here is what has been announced:

 

1) Elysium said last December that it will submit it's 120 person trial that was completed last summer for publication in a peer reviewed scientific journal.

 

2) Chromadex sued Elysium to pay for a sudden four times as large order of NR that happened to coincidence with half-way, 4 week period, of the summer where Elysium already knew where the 250mg and 500mg groups  were at  for non-payment. Elysium was trying to force the price of NR sold to them significantly.

 

3) The Chromadex CEO hinted two weeks ago at a stockholders webcast that its own trial was looking good and that it would post the detailed results in June or July. Elysium can put up its full results on its website at any time but so far has already waited 8 months. My guess has been that 500mg may have shown enough gains over the 250 mg group and aren't sure how to change the price accordingly.  

 

4) Once both results are known, we will have a much better idea how pterostilbine plays a part in improving measured health, if at all. 

 

 

That is a good reasoning for the source of the conflict. My own n=1 personal experience is more impact at the higher dose.
 

[soulprogrammer]

Anyone here also do meditation? I have been thinking since NR gives me vivid dreams, sharp mental focus, better short term memory, if I do my meditation now, will it make me actually able to achieve deep meditation state much easier? I used to meditate, but that was like many years ago. I have one, well, just once, achieve very deep meditation state, the state of total emptiness, and that kind of good feeling words hard to explain. I'm wondering anyone here have any improvement during meditation using NR?  

 

OF course, I will try to meditate once I have chance. Just want to know anyone here experience any difference if any during meditation after taking NR for sometime.

[accord]

by ambivalent:

It seems the NAD reduces histamine it but nicotinamide increases it, presumably through methyl group degradation

[...]

Presumably I should take now some methylation supplement? Suggestions?

 

Have you tried it yet? I think you should definitely try it if you haven't yet.

Myself is also trying to figure out why Niagen has a weaker effect when you have been taking it for a while.

 

I'm taking it for 3 months now, in the beginning the effect was extremely powerful even with 250-500mg.

Now, I take 750mg / day and the energy-boosting and digestion-boosting capabilities and getting much weaker. (e.g. it used to make me very hungry)

 

I'm wondering if this is because less and less NAD+ is produced from the Niagen by my body? [confused]

Edited by accord, 10 April 2017 - 02:28 AM.

[accord]

I'm excited by this news:

 

"Human trials of NMN therapy will begin within the next few months to “see if these results translate to people,” he said. A safe and effective anti-aging drug is “perhaps only three to five years away from being on the market if the trials go well.”

 

http://www.kurzweila...ing-damaged-dna

 

MNM is similar to Niagen in its effects, but it is artificial, as far as I know. Maybe it will work better OR maybe we can switch between the two from time to time to preserve the benefits, if MNM's effect would also be diminishing over time...

 

 

“While resveratrol activates SIRT1 alone, NAD boosters [like NMN] activate all seven sirtuins, SIRT1-7, and should have an even greater impact on health and longevity,” he says.

It's from the same article. I'm wondering if it means that Niagen also activates all 7 sirtuins? 

 

Edited by accord, 10 April 2017 - 02:50 AM.

[accord]

 

Presumably I should take now some methylation supplement? Suggestions?

I think I will try Solgar 400 mcg Folate Metafolin Tablets.

Is it safe to take it long term without bloodtests?

Also, spinach is a good source of this, you can include it in a green smoothie. One example I have seen recently is this recipe:

[accord]

What I found is funny:

 

What could you experience if you do take too much methylfolate?

– Irritability
– Anxiety
– Nausea
– Headaches
– Insomnia

Will these symptoms go away upon reducing the levels of methylfolate or stopping it?
– Yes

Will these symptoms go away quickly?
– In most people – yes – these symptoms will stop within 24 hours if not earlier.

Can you ‘neutralize’ these side effects faster if they occur?
– Many times, yes.

How?
– By taking niacin as niacin binds methyl groups and also increases the breakdown of glutamte – which is the excitatory neurtransmitter.

http://mthfr.net/met...lem/2012/01/08/

So if you overdose on the supplement, just take Niacin. :-) Probably the same with Niagen as @ambivalent has found in his reseach.

 

@ambivalent: did you find sources specifically mentioning this regarding to Niagen as well?

 

What this all means, I suppose, that if you reverse the logic, you can take methylfolate, to help with Niagen supplemention?

Edited by accord, 10 April 2017 - 03:56 AM.

[stefan_001]

 

by ambivalent:

It seems the NAD reduces histamine it but nicotinamide increases it, presumably through methyl group degradation

[...]

Presumably I should take now some methylation supplement? Suggestions?

 

Have you tried it yet? I think you should definitely try it if you haven't yet.

Myself is also trying to figure out why Niagen has a weaker effect when you have been taking it for a while.

 

I'm taking it for 3 months now, in the beginning the effect was extremely powerful even with 250-500mg.

Now, I take 750mg / day and the energy-boosting and digestion-boosting capabilities and getting much weaker. (e.g. it used to make me very hungry)

 

I'm wondering if this is because less and less NAD+ is produced from the Niagen by my body? [confused]

 

 

Personally I believe this is because your baseline expectation level shifts. The improved energy level becomes normal. After using it 2 year my body has certainly changed, read improved, so I would expect some effects and feelings to be transitionary.

[Oakman]

I have a somewhat alternative view on the lessening effects people report. That is, in a perfect world, Niagen can do two energy related things...

 

1)  Bring energy levels in the cell closer to youthful levels (higher energy) due to added NAD+ availability. This is a part of the rejuvenating feeling many perceive. This continues indefinitely.

 

2)  Through the process of enhanced mitophagy and general cellular autophagy it can eliminate much of the old and defective cellular components clogging up metabolism. Over the time it takes to dispose of, then replace, those mitochondria, etc., we feel another part of the increased energy from Niagen. But once this rejuvenation is done, the process is finished, as we reach a new energy status quo. Continued use of Niagen then puts this destroy/replace function in maintenance mode, with far less effect than when supplementation was started.

 

So at least half the subjective change of energy felt is lost within a relatively short amount of time, as the new status quo is reached.

[MikeDC]

Can't trust feelings to judge the effects. Use blood test to see if you are healthier.