2266 replies to this topic

[LawrenceW]

Homeostasis refers to the ability of the body or a cell to seek and maintain a condition of equilibrium or stability within its internal environment when dealing with external changes. It is involved in the maintenance of the constant internal environment which includes the function of kidney, liver, skin, etc.

 

From the Elysium Study Fig. 2 it appears that Homeostasis was triggered somewhere between the 30 and 60 day time frame and somewhere between the 250 mg per day dose and the 500 mg per day dose.  Judging from the decline from a 90% increase of NAD at day 30 to a 55% increase by day 60, I would estimate that the homeostasis trigger was closer to the 250 mg dose than the 500 mg per day dose.  Your thoughts?

 

https://www.nature.c...1514-017-0016-9

[MikeDC]

But that trial didn't go on long enough to know whether NAD+ levels drop as 500 mg did in the Elysium study sometime between 4 and 8 weeks.

Long term supplementation will cause some negative feed back loop. That is why taking a break every month is a good idea.

[adoado]

Guys,

 

i used both nr and nmn, and did not notice any changes, at high or low doses.

 

But i ordered nmn for my mom, she is 82 years old, first day i gave her 2 teaspoonful, second and third day 1 spoonful, and today again 2 spoonful, she was sitting on the couch all day and watching tv before i gave this, now since 3 days she seems highly motivated, she cleaned the windows of all the house, sweeping the floor, started cooking again, even when sitting on the couch, she is more active, i asked her if she felt anything different, she said shhe wants to move and do some housework.

 

Tomorrow i am thinking of directly injecting it in her blood, also my blood, what do you think about injections? Is it safe? What should be the dose?

[able]

Guys,

 

i used both nr and nmn, and did not notice any changes, at high or low doses.

 

But i ordered nmn for my mom, she is 82 years old, first day i gave her 2 teaspoonful, second and third day 1 spoonful, and today again 2 spoonful, she was sitting on the couch all day and watching tv before i gave this, now since 3 days she seems highly motivated, she cleaned the windows of all the house, sweeping the floor, started cooking again, even when sitting on the couch, she is more active, i asked her if she felt anything different, she said shhe wants to move and do some housework.

 

Tomorrow i am thinking of directly injecting it in her blood, also my blood, what do you think about injections? Is it safe? What should be the dose?

 

I can't tell if you are serious, or having some fun here.

 

On the off chance you are serious:

 

1.  When you say spoonfuls - do you mean swallowing it, or sublingual?

 

2.  How many mg do you think are in the spoonful?

 

2.  If she is feeling so much better, why would you possible consider something as risky as injections?

[LawrenceW]

I think that he is serious because he wants his mom to have enough energy to come over and clean his house also.

[adoado]

It is sublingual, i guess around 1 grs each spoon, injections was vetoed by my sister who is a doctor, she said no, you will kill her.

 

I am thinking to get it in the blood with some derma roll, as i told before, sublingually i did not feel any difference. maybe my nad+ is not so much depleted, mom is really old, older than time even.

[able]

@Aboada -  If this is a serious report, you should post this on the NMN experience thread, not NR.

 

http://www.longecity...erience-thread/

[MikeDC]

It is sublingual, i guess around 1 grs each spoon, injections was vetoed by my sister who is a doctor, she said no, you will kill her.

I am thinking to get it in the blood with some derma roll, as i told before, sublingually i did not feel any difference. maybe my nad+ is not so much depleted, mom is really old, older than time even.

One teaspoon is about 4g and one table spoon is about 12grams.

[adoado]

I do not think so, if i teaspoon is 4 grs, than all the box should finish after, 6 days, but still there is plenty. and on the box it is written that, serving size 1/8 teaspoon= 170 mg, so 1 teaspoon would make 8*170 mg= 1.36 grs.

[MikeDC]

I do not think so, if i teaspoon is 4 grs, than all the box should finish after, 6 days, but still there is plenty. and on the box it is written that, serving size 1/8 teaspoon= 170 mg, so 1 teaspoon would make 8*170 mg= 1.36 grs.

1.56

[able]

Artificial sweeteners like splendra use 1 gram packages, so you can dump one of those in a teaspoon to get an eyeball approximation of what 1 gram looks like.  

 

I have been taking NMN and NR sublingual for a few months now and used  that  simple estimate so I know what 1 g is. Now I just scoop what I estimate to be about 500 mg at a time.  

 

I notice a huge benefit from taking it this way vs capsules.  

 

I'm 59, so likely get a lot more benefit than you adoado.  Interesting to hear your report about an 82 year old, and that you did not notice an immediate effect.  Care to say your age?

Edited by able, 22 April 2018 - 04:40 PM.

[adoado]

I am 49, one teaspoonful weight depends on the density.

[able]

I am 49, one teaspoonful weight depends on the density.

 

True.  The NR powder from HPN is much more dense due to the addition of sweetener added to make it somewhat palatable.  

 

The NMN powder from Alivebynature  has nothing else added and is light and fluffy, so my estimate method is not very accurate with the NMN.  I initially used the little scoop they provided, but is very clumsy, so I also used that to measure into a teaspoon to approximate 500 mg.

 

Edited by able, 22 April 2018 - 04:58 PM.

[Harkijn]

Also: the size of a teaspoon varies per country.

[Wave Txlitl Met]

True benefits of nicotinamide mononucleotide NMN finally kick in after one year at 24mg/kg in humans. Prominent mouse study. Other benefits are earlier than that. I've only heard the echo chamber of 250mg for NR. The logistics of taking 24mgx90kg/daily for one year are hard to square with the cost. I consider no profound difference between NR and NMN from the studies. A "speculation" about NR entering the cell, NMN not, has not been proven to be an affect with an effect. There have been no studies I've seen, and absence of evidence isn't evidence of a hypothesis. Speculation. The worser part is that no robust mg/kg studies are found (so link me if you can) as to Niacin NA dose dependent boosting of NAD+. Simply micromoles to cultured cells, which calculated generates 1 milligram doses of Niacin at the lowest effective extracellular in vitro NA dose to cell cultures. I don't think a spec of NA will help a 90kg man. For the time being, a different thread cited this thread with the graph above. A commenter said, NA only boosts NR 40% in muscle tissue. I can't see that in the graph, but, if that's the case, NA is much more cost effective than NR or NMN. The only key missing is a mammal study detailing the dose dependent manner of NA, ingested, converting to NAD+ and delineated in mg/kg terms. That is progress!

[smithx]

You can get a centigram scale for $15 or less that would be much more accurate than eyeballing it.

[TMNMK]

[I take it back - I was going to recommend a scale, but at this level I think centrigram is what you'd want, yah]

 

Edited by TMNMK, 23 April 2018 - 12:01 AM.

[midas]

 I don't think a spec of NA will help a 90kg man.

 

Well, personally I think that 500mg of Nr raising NAD levels in healthy older adults by 60% as seen in the recent Colorado trial will help...

 

And, from what I can remember about the Chromadex trial, 300mg raises NAD by about the same level

Edited by midas, 23 April 2018 - 10:14 PM.

[MikeDC]

True benefits of nicotinamide mononucleotide NMN finally kick in after one year at 24mg/kg in humans. Prominent mouse study. Other benefits are earlier than that. I've only heard the echo chamber of 250mg for NR. The logistics of taking 24mgx90kg/daily for one year are hard to square with the cost. I consider no profound difference between NR and NMN from the studies. A "speculation" about NR entering the cell, NMN not, has not been proven to be an affect with an effect. There have been no studies I've seen, and absence of evidence isn't evidence of a hypothesis. Speculation. The worser part is that no robust mg/kg studies are found (so link me if you can) as to Niacin NA dose dependent boosting of NAD+. Simply micromoles to cultured cells, which calculated generates 1 milligram doses of Niacin at the lowest effective extracellular in vitro NA dose to cell cultures. I don't think a spec of NA will help a 90kg man. For the time being, a different thread cited this thread with the graph above. A commenter said, NA only boosts NR 40% in muscle tissue. I can't see that in the graph, but, if that's the case, NA is much more cost effective than NR or NMN. The only key missing is a mammal study detailing the dose dependent manner of NA, ingested, converting to NAD+ and delineated in mg/kg terms. That is progress!

Are you drunk?

[jjnz]

If you ask me I think the main mechanism of action in the long term is mtor inhibition. There seems no perceptible difference between NR or NMN yet I get similar benefits from NAC and Resverstrol (both mtor inhibitors)
When you think about it, why would the likes of esselium pollute NR with pterostillbene? Perhaps it’s because pterostillbene is responsible for more mtor inhibition that mtor alone, it’s not that different to resveratrol in its ability to clean up after apoptosis

[MikeDC]

If you ask me I think the main mechanism of action in the long term is mtor inhibition. There seems no perceptible difference between NR or NMN yet I get similar benefits from NAC and Resverstrol (both mtor inhibitors)
When you think about it, why would the likes of esselium pollute NR with pterostillbene? Perhaps it’s because pterostillbene is responsible for more mtor inhibition that mtor alone, it’s not that different to resveratrol in its ability to clean up after apoptosis

MTORC1 is not a perfect target for anti aging. Some cells needs mTORC1 up regulated to show good benefits. Inhibition of mTORC1 in all cells cause immune suppression, intestine stem cell suppression, reduction in testosterone production and reduction in testis size.

Pterostilbene and Resveratrol have no beneficial effects on humans. Pterostilbene actually increases LDL and blood pressure.

[jjnz]

You need higher quantities of resveratrol, hence the current trend toward the methylated pterostillbene , there’s recent work on resveratrol that shows it a very effective cleanup agent , also great for arterial health and inflammation markers http://www.cell.com/...4131(14)00208-3

There is a reason NR and pterostillbene are sold together
Resveratrol supplementation prevented diet-induced increase in arterial stiffness
•Resveratrol reduced macrophage infiltration, lipid deposition, and calcification
•Gene expression changes indicate antioxidative and antiinflammatory effects
•Primary culture of vascular smooth muscle cells support a role of resveratrol

[MikeDC]

You need higher quantities of resveratrol, hence the current trend toward the methylated pterostillbene , there’s recent work on resveratrol that shows it a very effective cleanup agent , also great for arterial health and inflammation markers http://www.cell.com/...4131(14)00208-3

There is a reason NR and pterostillbene are sold together
Resveratrol supplementation prevented diet-induced increase in arterial stiffness
•Resveratrol reduced macrophage infiltration, lipid deposition, and calcification
•Gene expression changes indicate antioxidative and antiinflammatory effects
•Primary culture of vascular smooth muscle cells support a role of resveratrol

Resveratrol works wonders for non humans. It does nothing for humans. Higher dose of Resveratrol is toxic. The only reason pterostilbene was used with NR together was because Elysium need to mix NR with something else to patent. Pterostilbene reduces the good effects of NR.

[MikeDC]

https://www.ncbi.nlm...s pterostilbene

Resveratrol and pterostilbene are endoplatic reticulum stress inducers.

[floweryriddle]

Resveratrol works wonders for non humans. It does nothing for humans. Higher dose of Resveratrol is toxic. The only reason pterostilbene was used with NR together was because Elysium need to mix NR with something else to patent. Pterostilbene reduces the good effects of NR.

 

Do you have sources on that? 

[MikeDC]

Do you have sources on that?

https://clinicaltria...stilbene&rank=1

[jjnz]

THat trial lumped all ldl cholesterol together as one unit !
It’s ldl -p that counts, I suggest you actually “read” the first study I linked to on resveratrol.

[jjnz]

Also suggesting mixing me and pterostillbene together gives them grounds for a parent is untrue. If that was the case no one would be allowed to mix NR and pterostillbene

[Captain Obvious]

Resveratrol works wonders for non humans. It does nothing for humans. Higher dose of Resveratrol is toxic. The only reason pterostilbene was used with NR together was because Elysium need to mix NR with something else to patent. Pterostilbene reduces the good effects of NR.

 

Oh, it does nothing on humans? What about the multiple studies that show effects on humans, how are those "nothing"?

 

https://www.ncbi.nlm...pubmed/22240353

 

https://www.ncbi.nlm...pubmed/21385509

 

https://www.ncbi.nlm...pubmed/22219517

 

https://www.ncbi.nlm...pubmed/22055504

 

https://www.ncbi.nlm...pubmed/20357044

[MikeDC]

Also suggesting mixing me and pterostillbene together gives them grounds for a parent is untrue. If that was the case no one would be allowed to mix NR and pterostillbene

Search for the patent. Yes nobody is allowed to mix NR and pterostilbene except Elysium.