2266 replies to this topic

[AliceTu]

Hello, all! New member, and first substantive post to longecity.

 

I often have atypical and fast responses to supplements and meds. Even so, my response to Nicotinamide Riboside surprised me, and I'm hoping for some insight from you all.

 

Here's what happened:

 

Day one: 100mg NR, LEF (Life Extension) brand. From my research, 100mg is a low dose, suitable for testing. Some people reported insomnia, so I took NR in the mornings only. I didn't expect to notice much, based on other reports, but within an hour I felt heavy, slow. Had been running a sleep deficit, so I assumed that was the cause.

 

Day two: 100mg NR again, morning. Unexpected mild sweating. Again, felt increasing lethargy shortly after taking NR, despite having slept well. Not tired, but as if sedated, with limbs heavy, very mild dizziness. I also noticed good skin effects: smoother, possibly better oil production. Possibly also lessening fatigue, alongside the sedation effects.

 

Day three: Woke feeling sedated, even before NR dose. Dropped NR to ~1/3 cap (~30mg), sublingual, intending to find the least effective dose and titrate up. Again, shortly after taking it, felt lethargy kick in, though somewhat reduced.

 

Day four: Trace amounts of NR, which I estimate at ~10mg, sublingual. Yet again, the sedative effects came on quickly, even at this small amount. Many hours later, the effects finally began to slowly fade. I had a pressure headache and felt mildly hungover. I consumed no alcohol or other sedatives during this timespan.

 

Day five: Too many days of being impaired, and decided to stop NR until I had a better model of what was going on.

 

It's now well more than 24 hours since last trace amounts of NR and I feel mostly clear-headed. The sedative effects are pretty much all gone.

 

My speculations and questions:

 

1. My genetics, atypical responses: From my research, NR is not acting on me the way it does most people. I doubt it's the NAD+ part of the process, but perhaps there is a side-effect or by-product causing this effect? Because of my genetics, my phase one and two detox pathways are slow, so there are many substances that don't leave my system as fast as expected, resulting in accumulations. Despite supposed short half-life of NR, my effects lasted well over 24 hours, each dose, even at these small amounts. Are there potentially accumulating by-products of NR that might account for this ongoing sedative effect?

 

2. Assessment: I have a lot of experience with chronic fatigue and various forms of insomnia, and so I can identify the difference between fatigue and needing to sleep, but I have less experience with sedation, so it took me until day two to realize it was sedation/lethargy, with heavy limbs and emotions blunted, though it did help me sleep somewhat. At the gym, I tested my exercise-induced-fatigue response by heavy exertion, and while it was subtle, I *think* I observed a minor improvement - less fatigue - even alongside the sedation effect.

 

3. Evidence for NR induced NAD+: My (good) skin changes were fast and noticeable, and possible mild energy increase. So it seems to me that the NR was also doing what I expected: increasing NAD+, in addition to the unexpected sedation effect.

 

4. Could sedation effect be due to induced deficiencies? Are there known (or speculated) deficiencies potentially induced by use of NR, or NAD+ increases? 

 

5. Brand: I believe LEF has a good reputation, but any time results are this atypical, I have to ask, could this be a quality control problem? It's unlikely to be fillers, because I don't usually react at all to them, but... maybe.

 

6. Normalization of sedation effect: Is there any model of what's going on here that might indicate that if I hang in there with a super low-and-slow dose of NR, the sedation effect might go away, and I might be able to titrate up? (Keep in mind just how low is the dose for which I could detect sedation effects.)

 

7. Should I try Nicotinamide Mononucleotide (NMN) instead? Might NMN have different effects on me?

 

I'm grateful for any insights, opinions about what's going on with me and NR, and any reports of similar experiences.

 

Thanks in advance for your thoughts.

 

 

[midas]

 

Hello, all! New member, and first substantive post to longecity.

 

I often have atypical and fast responses to supplements and meds. Even so, my response to Nicotinamide Riboside surprised me, and I'm hoping for some insight from you all.

 

Here's what happened:

 

 

I would personally try another brand first. HPN seems to be the most widely used around here. I have had good results with that myself. failing that if you have the same experience then maybe try NMN and see what that does for you. I have always used HPN since taking NR so I have no experience of any other brands, they were one of the very the first to come on stream. My 2cents.
 

 

 

I shortened OP's quote.

Edited by APBT, 05 June 2018 - 01:11 AM.

[Phoebus]

 

Hello, all! New member, and first substantive post to longecity.

 

I often have atypical and fast responses to supplements and meds. Even so, my response to Nicotinamide Riboside surprised me, and I'm hoping for some insight from you all.

 

 

 

Thanks in advance for your thoughts.

 

 

 

how old are you? 

 

are you in good health? 

 

what kind of health complications have you had?

 

high stress levels? 

[Heisok]

Alice Tu, did you start with sublingual? If so, it effected me differently than oral. (Also do not inhale excipients in LEF's accidently)

 

Other than that, I stopped NR for several months, and could not get started again for more than a couple days at a time over a couple months.Some fatigue. Even passed several bottles onto a friend., but had more. I was thinking that I would simply discontinue for good. I finally decided just to take it orally for awhile without a break. The fatigue went away after several days or so, and I have taken it daily for several weeks without issues. Will continue, but have given up sublingual. I took LEF's for the first couple years starting about 2014. Then I tried the three other brands at the time. HPN, and 2 who no longer sell it. I did not feel a difference between brands.

 

Good luck.

Edited by Heisok, 05 June 2018 - 01:43 AM.

[bluemoon]

  I took LEF's for the first couple years starting about 2014. Then I tried the three other brands at the time. HPN, and 2 who no longer sell it. I did not feel a difference between brands.

 

 

 

Right. I can't see how the brand makes a difference if all sell Niagen by ChromaDex.

[Phoebus]

Right. I can't see how the brand makes a difference if all sell Niagen by ChromaDex.

 

 

true just wish someone would sell 100% pure NR 

 

why cant i find that? ugh 

[MikeDC]

I think it is because your body is adjusting. Keep it up and it should resolve by itself. I would Suggest Tru Niagen.

[APBT]

how old are you? 

 

are you in good health? 

 

what kind of health complications have you had?

 

high stress levels? 

She addresses some of this in her intro here:  https://www.longecit...eyond-the-edge/

 

Although she may want to re-post it in this thread and elaborate for the convenience of other readers. 

[AliceTu]

I am grateful to everyone who has responded. Thank you for your insights. I'll chew on them (heh).

 

I've written a longer bio on my profile, so please check there for more details, but for reader convenience, as APBT suggested, in brief: I'm 55, female, in good health, very active.

 

Heisok, the first two days of Niagen NR (because that's what LifeExtension brand says the bottle contains) were swallowed. I have plenty of experience with sublingual, so on day three, when I dropped the dose, I tried subl, hoping it would achieve a different result. It didn't. Only dose-proportionate lessening of the sedation effect. (It dissolved very quickly, so I'm not surprised, but was worth trying. And thanks, yes, I know about not inhaling LEF's filler.)

 

I've begun NMN, at very low does, ~10mg. The result is dramatically different. I realize this is not an NMN topic, so I won't go into more detail, but if I keep using it, I'll report to the appropriate topic. I only mention it here to ask: is this typical, to react so differently to NR and NMN? NR sedates me, dramatically, at low doses, but NMN most assuredly does not.

 

Could the different reactions to NMN and NR imply anything about my biochemistry? Is there any information in that difference?

 

Thank you all, yet again!

 

[chavoc]

Have you checked your blood sugar? When I started NR my blood sugar was elevated quite a bit for about a week. Being a t2 diabetic, high blood sugar makes me lethargic and extremely sleepy.

I am grateful to everyone who has responded. Thank you for your insights. I'll chew on them (heh).

I've written a longer bio on my profile, so please check there for more details, but for reader convenience, as APBT suggested, in brief: I'm 55, female, in good health, very active.

Heisok, the first two days of Niagen NR (because that's what LifeExtension brand says the bottle contains) were swallowed. I have plenty of experience with sublingual, so on day three, when I dropped the dose, I tried subl, hoping it would achieve a different result. It didn't. Only dose-proportionate lessening of the sedation effect. (It dissolved very quickly, so I'm not surprised, but was worth trying. And thanks, yes, I know about not inhaling LEF's filler.)

I've begun NMN, at very low does, ~10mg. The result is dramatically different. I realize this is not an NMN topic, so I won't go into more detail, but if I keep using it, I'll report to the appropriate topic. I only mention it here to ask: is this typical, to react so differently to NR and NMN? NR sedates me, dramatically, at low doses, but NMN most assuredly does not.

Could the different reactions to NMN and NR imply anything about my biochemistry? Is there any information in that difference?

Thank you all, yet again!

[Oakman]

Your sensitivity to NR is perplexing, both in its effects and the extremely low dose required. I really can't come up with any rational explanation, esp. as NR is seemingly for helping to give you energy, not detract from your energy. You might want to volunteer as a research subject! I\Plus, if we could all mimic your low doe effect, we'd save a boatload of $$$ on supplementation.

 

The effect of NMN is similarly perplexing, with perhaps in your case, it has the same root cause but opposite effect. I've recently adding NMN to my NAD+/Sirtuin boosting oral cocktail. Perhaps it's the nmn, or perhaps it's the synergy taking them together with other supplements, but I 'feel' better for it. 

 

Hopefully someone will come up with a plausible theory for you that you can investigate.

[AliceTu]

Your sensitivity to NR is perplexing, both in its effects and the extremely low dose required. I really can't come up with any rational explanation, esp. as NR is seemingly for helping to give you energy, not detract from your energy. You might want to volunteer as a research subject! I\Plus, if we could all mimic your low doe effect, we'd save a boatload of $$$ on supplementation.

 

The effect of NMN is similarly perplexing, with perhaps in your case, it has the same root cause but opposite effect. I've recently adding NMN to my NAD+/Sirtuin boosting oral cocktail. Perhaps it's the nmn, or perhaps it's the synergy taking them together with other supplements, but I 'feel' better for it. 

 

Hopefully someone will come up with a plausible theory for you that you can investigate.

 

I am often perplexed by how atypical my responses are. As one of my practitioners said to me the other day, "Your body is so... interesting!"

Yes. Yes, it is.  

I'd be happy to volunteer as a research subject, but I doubt any study would have me. I'm not a representational subject.

Yes, there's the good side, all right: at these doses, Niagen/NMN experiments promise to be inexpensive. Of course, it could be start-up effects, and change over time. But  10mg!!!! Pretty astonishing. I'll titrate up as soon as I can assure myself I'm still going to be able to sleep.

 

So you mix Niagen and NMN? Any cautions about doing that? Now that I know that one wakes me up and the other sedates me, I can take one in the morning and the other at night. Oh, the possibilities!

I would love a plausible theory. Any plausible theory. I really would.

[bluemoon]

Your sensitivity to NR is perplexing, both in its effects and the extremely low dose required. I really can't come up with any rational explanation, esp. as NR is seemingly for helping to give you energy, not detract from your energy.  

 

At 10 mg, it has got to be a placebo effect.

[APBT]

AliceTu, I have no obvious or plausible explanation for your reaction to NR.

Have you tried other forms of B3: niacin/nicotinic acid, nicotinamide/niacinamide?  How do you respond to them?  

[stefan_001]

AliceTu you dont sound very convincing, its all very strange......

 

In post #1771 (which was yesterday) you write:

 

7. Should I try Nicotinamide Mononucleotide (NMN) instead? Might NMN have different effects on me?

 

#1779 which was also yesterday you write:

 

I've begun NMN, at very low does, ~10mg. The result is dramatically different. I realize this is not an NMN topic, so I won't go into more detail, but if I keep using it, I'll report to the appropriate topic. I only mention it here to ask: is this typical, to react so differently to NR and NMN? NR sedates me, dramatically, at low doses, but NMN most assuredly does not.

 

 

Edited by stefan_001, 05 June 2018 - 09:51 PM.

[AliceTu]

AliceTu you dont sound very convincing, its all very strange......

 

In post #1771 (which was yesterday) you write:

 

7. Should I try Nicotinamide Mononucleotide (NMN) instead? Might NMN have different effects on me?

 

#1779 which was also yesterday you write:

 

I've begun NMN, at very low does, ~10mg. The result is dramatically different. I realize this is not an NMN topic, so I won't go into more detail, but if I keep using it, I'll report to the appropriate topic. I only mention it here to ask: is this typical, to react so differently to NR and NMN? NR sedates me, dramatically, at low doses, but NMN most assuredly does not.

Stefan_001, hi.
 

I asked about NMN yesterday. I started a trace amount last night, after that post. Only today did I post that I had begun taking NMN. 

When I look back at those posts, they are correctly shown as different dates. I'm not sure how it's showing to you, but that's how it's showing to me.

 

I don't mean to be confusing. I really am just trying to give information as I have it. If I'm doing this incorrectly, or not adhering to longecity forum guidelines, I do humbly ask that someone tell me, so that I may learn and better honor the community space. Perhaps in my in-box so that this need not take up valuable space off-topic? (I apologize for *this* off-topic comment. Also please know that I am limited in how many posts I can make per day at this point, so if i don't respond publicly, that may be why.)

[Gingerbread Man]

Hi AliceTu,

  I actually don't think your reactions are abnormal. When I first tried NR it was only 75 mg tablets and they worked very well for me and I only took one/day to start. There are 60 pages of personal experiences here, if you read through them you will find all kinds of different reactions. I also think the tiredness can be a result of the NR doing it's work. My personal belief is NR is fueling up your cells and trying to help your body do what it needs to do, such as repair/heal etc. I also feel while this is going on your body will react dependent on what is happening with all the NAD. I have taken all different doses and experimented with different times etc with NR, noticing my body reacting differently depending on how I used it. For example when I used to take it in the morning I would feel super exhausted and wiped out by 2:00 in the afternoon. I found if I took another one at 2:00 it would push past that and energize me. Everyone is different. I have heard lots of talk about circadian rhythm and how that plays a role. For me personally after my time with NR, I now take my 250 mg at night just before going to bed. It helps me sleep like when I was a child. Even though sometimes I wake up a little groggy (because my body wants more sleep (again your body heals/repairs when you sleep, giving it NR while you are sleeping gets your body using it)) within a few minutes of waking up I feel energized and refreshed. I know for me, my body didn't start normalizing to NR until after 2 to 3 weeks of usage. I think if you didn't give it at least that much time it's hard to see what it's doing. Swapping to other supplements or mixing with others isn't really indicative of what NR is doing. Best of luck.

[stefan_001]

Stefan_001, hi.
 

I asked about NMN yesterday. I started a trace amount last night, after that post. Only today did I post that I had begun taking NMN. 

When I look back at those posts, they are correctly shown as different dates. I'm not sure how it's showing to you, but that's how it's showing to me.

 

I don't mean to be confusing. I really am just trying to give information as I have it. If I'm doing this incorrectly, or not adhering to longecity forum guidelines, I do humbly ask that someone tell me, so that I may learn and better honor the community space. Perhaps in my in-box so that this need not take up valuable space off-topic? (I apologize for *this* off-topic comment. Also please know that I am limited in how many posts I can make per day at this point, so if i don't respond publicly, that may be why.)

 

Given that you cannot buy NMN in a shop and only online the time between asking about whether it might do something different, testing it and reporting results seems amazingly short - less than 24 hours.
 

[stefan_001]

Hi AliceTu,

  I actually don't think your reactions are abnormal. When I first tried NR it was only 75 mg tablets and they worked very well for me and I only took one/day to start. There are 60 pages of personal experiences here, if you read through them you will find all kinds of different reactions. I also think the tiredness can be a result of the NR doing it's work. My personal belief is NR is fueling up your cells and trying to help your body do what it needs to do, such as repair/heal etc. I also feel while this is going on your body will react dependent on what is happening with all the NAD. I have taken all different doses and experimented with different times etc with NR, noticing my body reacting differently depending on how I used it. For example when I used to take it in the morning I would feel super exhausted and wiped out by 2:00 in the afternoon. I found if I took another one at 2:00 it would push past that and energize me. Everyone is different. I have heard lots of talk about circadian rhythm and how that plays a role. For me personally after my time with NR, I now take my 250 mg at night just before going to bed. It helps me sleep like when I was a child. Even though sometimes I wake up a little groggy (because my body wants more sleep (again your body heals/repairs when you sleep, giving it NR while you are sleeping gets your body using it)) within a few minutes of waking up I feel energized and refreshed. I know for me, my body didn't start normalizing to NR until after 2 to 3 weeks of usage. I think if you didn't give it at least that much time it's hard to see what it's doing. Swapping to other supplements or mixing with others isn't really indicative of what NR is doing. Best of luck.

 

This user reports also NMN gives an energy boost. Given that both do roughly similar things in the body it makes not a lot of sense.
 

[MikeDC]

This user reports also NMN gives an energy boost. Given that both do roughly similar things in the body it makes not a lot of sense.

Maybe NR has cleaned up the bad mitochandria. 10mg will probably do nothing. It is all placebo effects.

[MikeDC]

Posted on yahoo CDXC board.

Attached Files

•  DBB4D130-2871-422F-8250-711E518827EE.jpeg   178.16KB   1 downloads

[AliceTu]

Given that you cannot buy NMN in a shop and only online the time between asking about whether it might do something different, testing it and reporting results seems amazingly short - less than 24 hours.
 

 

Amazon delivers within 2 days to where I live. I had been considering both NR and NMN products. When I experienced fast and intense sedation effects with NR, I ordered NMN, and began to test it at low dose. My responses are often quick and atypical, which is why I posted here, to ask for advice.

I'm not sure what you are really implying here. That I am lying about the timing or effects of my reactions to NR or NMN? Why would I do that? It makes no sense.

If you're trying to discourage me from posting about my results in an open and clear manner, you're succeeding.

[Oakman]

^ Gee...where I live I can get Amazon next day.....some places it's even same day. The only things unusual here are the conspiracy theorists calculating post time stamps. :(

[stefan_001]

Amazon delivers within 2 days to where I live. I had been considering both NR and NMN products. When I experienced fast and intense sedation effects with NR, I ordered NMN, and began to test it at low dose. My responses are often quick and atypical, which is why I posted here, to ask for advice.

I'm not sure what you are really implying here. That I am lying about the timing or effects of my reactions to NR or NMN? Why would I do that? It makes no sense.

If you're trying to discourage me from posting about my results in an open and clear manner, you're succeeding.

 

Please feel free to post. It is however such strange reaction that well at least I feel the need to ask a sceptical question. 10mg oral consumption having a reaction for either NMN or NR more or less immediately seems well strange. Various research results indicate that very little escapes the liver even at high doses. At 10mg I am guessing virtually no NR or NMN gets into the bloodcirculation so it would mean that each compund sets off a reaction in the liver that is:

1) able to produce enough of something to sedate you for NR

2) able to giive you an energy boost for NMN

 

Or alternative the very small raise in NAD+ in the blood would do that. As you consumed only 10mg and assuming some linear curve for dosing versus NAD+ raise I would gamble your NAD+ would go up with 1%. I have no idea how that can trigger what you say and how compounds that both raise NAD+ can cause such opposite reactions.

 

Perhaps you have an allergy/reaction to the fillers?

 

Edited by stefan_001, 06 June 2018 - 06:05 PM.

[stefan_001]

^ Gee...where I live I can get Amazon next day.....some places it's even same day. The only things unusual here are the conspiracy theorists calculating post time stamps. :(

 

Gee, luckily you have good answers to riddles right?

 

AliceTu may I ask which brand NMN you are using?
 

Edited by stefan_001, 06 June 2018 - 10:00 PM.

[Boopy!]

i suppose after a week or even up to a month of taking a med and noticing similar side effects (and NOT changing or taking ANYTHING else)   I might attribute effects to it.    I experience nothing,   tbh,  from the pricey NR and am thinking that's it for this experiment,   although I have been tired --- but that could be ANYTHING.   Hormones,   life stressors,  etc --  it's hard to say without accurate ways to measure.   If you truly think you have conducted the experiment with no other influences,   I'd say pay attention to it.   I'd give something more than a week for sure unless it made me really really ill.   I concur that 10 mg is a VERY VERY low dosage -- how'd you choose that one?

[Oakman]

As to tiredness, I found this thread that is interesting... https://www.longecit...makes-me-tired/

[AliceTu]

As to tiredness, I found this thread that is interesting... https://www.longecit...makes-me-tired/

 

Thank you. I saw that.

But my reaction is not one of being tired (at that dose) but one of feeling sedated, which is different.

I am now using both NR and NMN, and I think I may be finding the right balance for me. Another week or two and I'll know more.
 

Edited by AliceTu, 10 June 2018 - 04:34 AM.

[AliceTu]

i suppose after a week or even up to a month of taking a med and noticing similar side effects (and NOT changing or taking ANYTHING else)   I might attribute effects to it.    I experience nothing,   tbh,  from the pricey NR and am thinking that's it for this experiment,   although I have been tired --- but that could be ANYTHING.   Hormones,   life stressors,  etc --  it's hard to say without accurate ways to measure.   If you truly think you have conducted the experiment with no other influences,   I'd say pay attention to it.   I'd give something more than a week for sure unless it made me really really ill.   I concur that 10 mg is a VERY VERY low dosage -- how'd you choose that one?

 

I didn't "choose" it. In my original post -- take a look -- I listed my days and doses. As I wrote there, by day four, I estimated my dose to be ~10mg. 

[Captain Obvious]

Wow, this level of butt-hurt and strawmanning I would have expected on a pseudoscience forum, but not here.
 

The argument from MikeDC was that "NR has worked for so many people and it is not placebo.", to which I responded with:

"The fact that a lot of people report effects does NOT mean it's not placebo. Or if it does, then homeopathy is not placebo, and energy healing is not placebo, as they have also "worked" for a lot of people. Hundreds of thousands of people swear by acupuncture, as do hundreds of books, therapists and doctors. Yet no studies have been able to prove actual health effects for it compared to placebo or sham acupuncture. Because it's placebo."

 

So is that true or not true? If not, why not?

 

I did NOT say that people don't experience effects from taking NR. I said we don't know yet whether those are placebo or due to something else. I did not also say there are no studies, I said we need more ("several") studies. Btw, even the scientists studying a particular issue are susceptible to that. That's why they do double-blind trials, and not just one or two. 

 

For the record (because someone made a big point about it), I have not taken NR for at least two weeks since I left for a vacation, did not notice any effects from stopping it either and unless more clinical trials come out showing benefits to healthy middle-agers, I won't be buying more of it either. So what does that prove exactly? Absolutely nothing. That's the whole point.

 

And to the person who claimed stuff about hair growth, and that not being placebo, I would ask: How large was the increase in hair growth? 20%, 100%? How did you measure the hair growth? What's your baseline measurement and from how long time period? Is the growth rate constant throughout the year, year in year out? If not, what's the variance? If you haven't measured those, then how exactly would you know if it's placebo or not, or if it's due to some other factors that you simply haven't figured into the equation?

 

"The positive effects I experienced from taking expensive health product X are in fact just placebo", said no-one ever. 

 

Edited by Captain Obvious, 10 June 2018 - 07:49 AM.