11 votes
Posted 05 April 2019 - 02:54 AM
It probably isn't.
There's a certain rate or canker sores in the population, and if people get one right around the time they start taking a new supplement, they are likely to attribute them to that, when it may have zero connection.
To know for sure we'd have to compare canker sore rates in NR users to those in non-NR users with a rather large population.
I've never had a canker sore until I started NR.
Posted 06 April 2019 - 12:48 PM
Quick update on things, it has been about a week since I stopped taking NR and pterostilbene. My hip flexor issues seem to have calmed down substantially, which is HUGE to me. I was in this stagnation of pain where nothing would get better, for 2 months. Thank God for this thread. I would have never considered doing this without everyone's posts.
Update -
It has been about 3.5-4 weeks since I stopped taking NR and pterostilbene. I have experienced some negative side effects from stopping. So, clearly, one of these (or both) were doing some substantially good things, I believe.
Pain Update
First, an update on the pain, it is for the most part entirely gone now. There is still some minor pain in the wrist, and the hip is still tight. I went from experiencing pain in my hip on a daily basis to no pain at all, perhaps one instance of pain in the last week or 2. So, I feel like there has been substantial improvement. This is also while completing a 30 day (no breaks) calisthenics strength program.
Less Productive Sleep
I track my sleep with a Garmin watch. This does not track naps, unfortunately, as I nap a lot. Check out how my sleep quality has declined:
That is a 44%+ decrease in average deep sleep! That is insane. If you ask me, this ALONE is enough reason to begin taking whichever substance (NR or pterostilbene or both) that is responsible for this.
Can anyone argue that less deep sleep is good? I'm assuming probably not.
Other Effects
Heart Murmurs
I seem to notice a substantial increase in heart murmurs. I have dealt with this all my life, had all kinds of tests done (found nothing), and believe it to be linked to a lack of cardio exercise, as it seems to be inversely correlated. Nevertheless, I did not have heart murmurs, to my recollection, the entire time I was taking these two substances. In the last 2 weeks, I have had substantially more. Now, I believe this may be correlated to less deep sleep. Cardio exercise may increase the amount of deep sleep (I have no idea for certain).
Minor Brain Fog (possibly too subjective)
I have had some minor instances of brain fog but nothing seemingly substantial. I am still taking NMN every other day of the week. However, before, I was rotating between NMN and NR every day. Therefore, I effectively decreased my NAD+ precursors. This could be causing some of this. However, it also could be a cause of less productive sleep too!
Conclusion / Next Steps
I will be starting NR again tomorrow (low dose @ 150 mg/day) to see if my deep sleep bounces back. If it does not, I will up the NR dose to what I was doing previously (600 mg/day). If still no effect, I will evaluate whether pterostilbene is responsible alone or paired with NR.
Edited by jgkyker, 06 April 2019 - 01:29 PM.
Posted 06 April 2019 - 05:52 PM
I am still taking NMN every other day of the week. However, before, I was rotating between NMN and NR every day. Therefore, I effectively decreased my NAD+ precursors.
You were still taking NMN to measure you sleeping patterns after stopping NR?
Posted 06 April 2019 - 08:08 PM
You were still taking NMN to measure you sleeping patterns after stopping NR?
This question is a bit ambiguous. Therefore, I apologize if I misunderstand what you are asking.
My typical regimen before I stopped NR and pterostilbene, as described earlier in the thread, was to take 300 mg of NR in the morning and evening on Sunday (600 mg total). No NMN was taken on Sunday. On Monday, I took 250 mg of NMN in the morning, afternoon, and evening. No NR was taken on Monday. This continued to rotate by day throughout the week. My intentions were explained in the mitochondrial dynamics thread and also earlier in this thread.
So, another way to describe it was this:
Sunday - NR Day
Monday - NMN Day
Tuesday - NR Day
Wednesday - NMN Day
Thursday - NR Day
Friday - NR Day --- I intentionally moved my NMN day to Saturday here.
Saturday - NMN Day
When I stopped NR and pterostilbene, for reasons described earlier in the thread, I went to this schedule:
Sunday - No NAD+ precursor
Monday - NMN Day (same dose)
Tuesday - No NAD+ precursor
Wednesday - NMN Day
Thursday - No NAD+ precursor
Friday - NMN Day
Saturday - No NAD+ precursor
The sleep changes were recorded on this schedule, and they were an unexpected finding.
For me, this is possible evidence of one of the following:
I hope this helps to answer the question. If not, please check out my reasons for stopping NR and pterostilbene (above link) or my post that began my investigation. After that, if you still have questions, please let me know.
Posted 06 April 2019 - 10:31 PM
Yet both NR and NMN boost NAD+
You state that NR and NMN boost NAD+. I state that they do more than that. That is our difference in perspective. The specifics of this are in the links I posted in my former statement, if you are interested in further discovery. No big deal, of course, if not.
Posted 06 April 2019 - 11:24 PM
Why not take just 300 mg or 600 mg of NR for two weeks while monitoring sleep, then wait a few days and do the same for 300 mg/ 600 mg of NMN for two weeks and finally 50 mg or 100 mg of just pterostilbine for 2 weeks? That is, if it isn't too time consuming.
Posted 07 April 2019 - 02:00 AM
Why not take just 300 mg or 600 mg of NR for two weeks while monitoring sleep, then wait a few days and do the same for 300 mg/ 600 mg of NMN for two weeks and finally 50 mg or 100 mg of just pterostilbine for 2 weeks? That is, if it isn't too time consuming.
The short answer is that I am uninterested in a perpetual diet of NR for health reasons.
The long answer... well, here we go...
Increasing the NAD+/NADH ratio promotes fission in mitochondria. Here is a study about nicotinamide and NAD+ promoting fission:
Nicotinamide-induced Mitophagy
The [NAD+]/[NADH] ratio was inversely correlated with the mitochondrial content, and an increase in the ratio by the mobilization of the malate-aspartate shuttle resulted in autophagy activation and mitochondrial transformation from lengthy filaments to short dots.
However, NMN promotes fusion in mitochondria according to this study:
Furthermore, we found a shift in dynamics from fission to fusion proteins in the NMN-treated mice.
So, what does NR do? Well, most people around here would probably say it increases the NAD+/NADH ratio and thereby induces mitochondrial fission. Supposedly, NMN raises the NAD+/NADH ratio too though. 
A conundrum is perhaps presented here. In contrast, we have the above study that states NMN induces mitochondrial fusion. But WAIT? If NMN raises NAD+ according to the top study it should induce fission!? Well... Maybe... maybe you can have a substance (nicotinamide or NR) that raises NAD+ and induces fission and another substance, NMN, that raises NAD+ and induces fusion.
There are different things happening in the body if NR promotes fission and NMN promotes fusion, and obviously then, they are doing different things.
Now consider the effect of mitochondrial fission:
Role of Drp1 a Key Mitochondrial Fission Protein in Neuropathic Pain
These studies provide support for a substantial role of mitochondrial fission in preclinical models of inflammatory and neuropathic pain.
Fission may have a substantial role in inflammatory pain. Well! That sucks! Is there any wonder then, why the following happened in this study?
The NAD(+) precursor nicotinamide riboside decreases exercise performance in rats.
RESULTS:
The nicotinamide riboside group showed a tendency towards worse physical performance by 35 % compared to the control group at the final 10 % load (94 ± 53 s for the nicotinamide riboside group and 145 ± 59 s for the control group; P = 0.071).
If NR promotes fission (thereby possibly taking a substantial role in inflammatory pain, which I describe in my previous post) and decreases exercise performance in rats, for me, it seems best to avoid taking it day-after-day. Therefore, it is not worthwhile, for me, to do as you describe and explore taking NR alone. At this time, I see more of a detriment, based on the research above, than a benefit. In my opinion, it is best to cycle off of NR to avoid over-inducing fission, which, frankly, sucks unless you are trying to kill off defunct mitochondria.
Edited by jgkyker, 07 April 2019 - 02:18 AM.
Posted 11 April 2019 - 07:56 PM
I've been taking NR now over 2 months. I'm starting to feel the effects of homeostasis. I can clearly feel that it's not as effective as it was the first 6-8 weeks or so. I've increased my dosage to try to compensate for decreased energy, but it's limited.
Posted 11 April 2019 - 08:35 PM
I've been taking NR now over 2 months. I'm starting to feel the effects of homeostasis. I can clearly feel that it's not as effective as it was the first 6-8 weeks or so. I've increased my dosage to try to compensate for decreased energy, but it's limited.
What else are you doing for your overall health? I've been taking NR for four years as of February 2019, and I feel great. I'm 55 and have my blood work done every year to make sure everything's kosher, including CRP levels to monitor inflammation. Energy is a subjective thing. Everyone has up and down days. I'm curious what kind of energy you're hoping for?
Posted 11 April 2019 - 08:40 PM
What else are you doing for your overall health? I've been taking NR for four years as of February 2019, and I feel great. I'm 55 and have my blood work done every year to make sure everything's kosher, including CRP levels to monitor inflammation. Energy is a subjective thing. Everyone has up and down days. I'm curious what kind of energy you're hoping for?
I suffer from moderate sleep apnea which impacts my sleep quality. Since taking NR I felt like it negated most of the negative effects of my apnea on my overall energy level, but that's starting to drop off.
Posted 11 April 2019 - 08:47 PM
I suffer from moderate sleep apnea which impacts my sleep quality. Since taking NR I felt like it negated most of the negative effects of my apnea on my overall energy level, but that's starting to drop off.
Ah, okay! Isn't sleep apnea more of a problem due to throat and nasal passages? Or is yours different? I only know a little bit about it. Might be too structural an issue for a supplement to fix? My husband has it, and I've been hoping he'll try a sleep study, but he doesn't want to wear the device at night, although that seems to be the most effective treatment.
Posted 11 April 2019 - 10:53 PM
Ah, okay! Isn't sleep apnea more of a problem due to throat and nasal passages? Or is yours different? I only know a little bit about it. Might be too structural an issue for a supplement to fix? My husband has it, and I've been hoping he'll try a sleep study, but he doesn't want to wear the device at night, although that seems to be the most effective treatment.
Yeah, I never expected it to fix my sleep apnea, but I appreciated that initial energy boost. It's well known that NAD+ peaks around the first two months of use of NR then drops off to about +50%, and I'm saying I think I feel that effect. It's unfortunate because the +100% NAD boost felt so good.
Posted 12 April 2019 - 05:36 AM
Yeah, I never expected it to fix my sleep apnea, but I appreciated that initial energy boost. It's well known that NAD+ peaks around the first two months of use of NR then drops off to about +50%, and I'm saying I think I feel that effect. It's unfortunate because the +100% NAD boost felt so good.
You wrote: "It's well known that NAD+ peaks around the first two months of use of NR then drops off to about +50%"
Not really no....
Posted 12 April 2019 - 06:08 AM
You wrote: "It's well known that NAD+ peaks around the first two months of use of NR then drops off to about +50%"
Not really no....
Just from personal experience (as this thread says): I feel much less from NR after one year of use. The energized feeling in the morning is gone, also the increased libido. Hair is still better however.
Maybe we should gather long term experiences in particular?
Posted 12 April 2019 - 06:58 AM
@male_1978 Using NR for 4 years, there have been some up and downs in how i feel but most days are like this morning good energy. I do think there is some sort of cycle or set of circumstances that leads to a temporary drop. Factor that influences very clearly is exercise, amplifies the effect of NR or then lack of it seems to dull it.
Posted 12 April 2019 - 01:56 PM
In a few weeks you can try Time Machine, which the maker claims sustains an increase in NAD+ levels by 240 percent. Please report back in summer!
Can you please tell me more about Time Machine? First time I'm hearing about it.
Posted 12 April 2019 - 02:26 PM
Can you please tell me more about Time Machine? First time I'm hearing about it.
Here is a recent thread on Nuchido that makes Time Capsule (I got the name wrong so time to use more NR to further boost my memory!)
https://www.longecit...ail-that-works/
Posted 12 April 2019 - 02:51 PM
I'm not necessarily a believer in tolerance anymore. A lot of people says they get great results with NR but if fades away. It was the same for me as well, but I do think if you take the right supplements, the effects remain.
Niagen or any other supplement with strong effects, can and will deplete other substances in the body.
What I noticed, is that I don't even get too much tolerance with caffeine anymore. Every time the same, very strong effect. Because I try to supplement with supplements I feel necessary.
So, a few examples: as someone already said here, Niagen can deplete B12. But there are other supplements, such as P5P, a form of B6 which gives me more mental energy and focus than anything else I have ever tried. Dose dependent, if you overdose it, you will just sleep :-)
The form is always important in my experience, some examples:
- B3: Niagen instead of Niacin
- Magnesium L-Threonate, instead of Magnesium Citrate
- B6: P5P instead of Pyridoxine hydrochloride
- B12: Methylcobalamin instead of Cyanocobalamin
Update: I don't want to deny that tolerance exists. My point is that you can improve the effects greatly, but when the effects fade away, we tend to point to tolerance while it might not be the case.
Edited by accord, 12 April 2019 - 02:56 PM.
Posted 13 April 2019 - 06:33 PM
Update of my hair biomarker. Its 4 years NR this week. Left picture is from 10 minutes ago (age 49). The right picture is from 4 years ago (age 45). The small blue lines are to indicate a color spot that helps orientate. Needless to day I am really satisfied. And @able please spare me your "you do this to attack competition" comments.
4yearsNR.JPG 123.79KB
8 downloads
Edited by stefan_001, 13 April 2019 - 06:35 PM.
Posted 15 April 2019 - 11:38 PM
Not really a personal experience with NR (yet) but I just wanna say that I had my mother (who's in her mid 70's) on NMN for 6 months and while she has definitely benefited from it, I came to the conclusion recently that NR makes more sense than NMN, not only from a delivery point of view but cost wise also... I'm not bashing NMN (especially if the price goes down) but for now we just know a lot more about NR and it seems that it's a much more simple and cleaner process of boosting NAD (at a much lower cost) that NMN. I have to admit that my previous research was somewhat influenced by the hysteria surrounding NMN and did not even look at NR to the same degree. I would say that the recent Joe Rogan video podcast with Dr. Sinclair, which put so much attention on NMN that stores went almost instantly out of stock, when people lost their minds and began buying out all the supply, made all the difference because the one thing I hate is mob mentality. I then began a more in depth research on NR and it just strikes me as a more EFFICIENT, clean and simple solution to boosting NAD vs NMN. So at least for now I'll put both of my parents and I on NR, albeit at a lower dose (250 - 300 mg daily, based on the studies) which should work at least as good as the higher NMN dose. Just wanna lend my support for the underdog NR, that's all.
Edited by cjacek, 15 April 2019 - 11:40 PM.
Posted 16 April 2019 - 08:34 PM
The mostly negative reactions and "dislikes" (to my post) must be coming from the NMN people who already have their own NMN thread but can't help themselves and come on here just to bash and criticize someone's PRO NR post (on an NR dedicated thread). I never set out to criticize NMN but rather to give my own person OPINION, based on the research I've personally done, why I've made the decision to switch to NR and lend my support to this NAD booster.
Posted 16 April 2019 - 11:41 PM
Your post was mainly about your experience with and view on NMN (you mentioned NMN more times than NR) so perhaps you should have posted in the NMN-personal experiences thread instead. It is easier, after a search, to find your conclusions of NMN in that thread than in this NR-personal experiences thread.
Posted 17 April 2019 - 12:47 PM
Looking at all these negative ratings on posts in this thread is like watching kids having mini tantrums.
NR has masses of studies ongoing worldwide and has shown some very encouraging results.
MNM however, is seriously lacking when it comes to solid science as of yet.
Maybe you child like people that keep being negative just for the sake of it should move on, leave this thread and concentrate on finding and showing evidence that NMN is actually doing something positive..
I look forward to a boatload of silly and pointless negative ratings below...
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