2266 replies to this topic

[VERITAS INCORRUPTUS]

^ Whatever it is, it more than seems you are on a good track, so keep on keepin'  

Any and all data we will of course have to view within the relevance that you indeed still occupy a human form, subject to certain human inclinations.  Oh wait, therein is the relevance.  

[Vastmandana]

^ Whatever it is, it more than seems you are on a good track, so keep on keepin'

Any and all data we will of course have to view within the relevance that you indeed still occupy a human form, subject to certain human inclinations.  Oh wait, therein is the relevance.

 

I have to admit... most of my life I hoped I was just an "observer" under deep cover... but alas, my human ageing is showing me that I may indeed be stuck in this form.... or at least until I've accomplished whatever I joined this simulation for!

[midas]

P90X, a yoga mat, and a good set of free weights made much more of a difference in my well being than any supplement I've tried, at least so far.

 

 

Exercise can be a 'eustress' of greatest benefit that is absolutely acting upon the cellular level of course.  Obviously, as with everything, it has its limits, and supplementation can be both additive and synergistic.

 

 

I think maybe you are missing the point of this thread. This is about the effects or non effects of NR.

I do not for one minute deny that exercise is a good thing but once we reach a certain age no matter how much exercise we do the aging process has started to take its toll and no matter how much exercise we do it will not stop it or reverse it, though it may slow it down to a degree.

Also some people around here are at an age or state of health that rigourus exercise is no longer a viable option.

As Vastmandana says and I have said on one or two occasions the fact that people posting on this subject are of vairing ages it makes it difficult to judge the potential effects of NR as it would (if it works) have more profound effects on those of us that are in the middle to older age groups. Younger participants should be in better health on the cellular level and may no benefit so much as the older amongst us.....I too think it would be a great help if people posting on this thread gave their age.

So I think that posting information on strenuous exercise regimens would not be very beneficial to this particular thread.

 

I actually have a good example in my family of how just exercise and healthy eating alone works for some people.

I have an uncle over there in the USA who is 89 years old, he has spent all his life looking after himself on both those fronts. He exercised every two days and eat mostly fruit and vegetables for nearly all his life. Since his mid 70's he has not had the use of his legs and does not know who or where he is, he is now 89 years old and lives in a care home in Yelm in Washington.

He actually told me in conversation in about 1981 he wholeheartedly expected to live to be 110 years old because of the way he had lived his life, he actually may still live to be that age, but he, like I say, has been in the condition he is in now for 15 years and has another 21 years of that to come if he is going to reach his goal!

Also for those that think exercise is the answer, just google some of your favorite athletes of the past and see where they are now.....I have done this and their life span on average was no longer than the average.

Like I said earlier, I am in no way saying exercise is a bad thing, it probably keeps you healthier longer, but the vessel you are traveling through life in is slowly wearing out and what I am here for is to try and find some help in changing that to a greater or lesser degree.....This is why I am on this thread about Nicotinamide Riboside and not a thread on exercise.......Just sayin'

 

[VERITAS INCORRUPTUS]

I will make a relatively simple statement here.

 

Supplementation will always fare better to regain a state that is aimed to correct a deficit/dysregulation, than that which is attempting to achieve a truly supra-physiological outcome.

Certainly the aging process is likened to state of deficit/dysregulation/('disease') and within that supplementation can enable a sound degree of 'correction' to what is a more normal, healthy (baseline youthful) state.

 

Elevation of NAD+ will retard the aging process, in some reasonably significant, but in no way overwhelming manner.  It will allow one to have potentials for a minor extension of QOL and longevity.  Healthy and consistent exercise will do same. Incorporating multiple supplementation protocols will push these potentials all slightly further in that direction.  I do not think anyone should fool themselves though to think we have as yet stumbled on any of true keys/means, however, the only way to get somewhere is to keep pushing in the right direction(s).  This certainly appears a worthwhile direction, but nonetheless one of several.

 

It may be "Coenzyme #1" oriented, but even so this and all such related modalities will likely just afford a strong nudge of the potentials that are desired.  A strong nudge toward a potentially healthier life with any degree of extended QOL and longevity is not a bad thing.   The real worth of this 'experiment' will really more so take years to see any worthwhile insight into these factors, but within any reasonable signs of a direction that regains a more youthful state there certainly is the promise of betterment in the desired direction.  In the short term only that which seems to act upon such 'deficits' is really likely only that which is going to demonstrate valid 'data'.

[airplanepeanuts]

I will make a relatively simple statement here.

 

Supplementation will always fare better to regain a state that is aimed to correct a deficit/dysregulation, than that which is attempting to achieve a truly supra-physiological outcome.

 

I think oftentimes the opposite is true. It's easier to make something better that is already working, than to make something work that is broken.

 

If you have no problems with your joints and you take Glucosamine your joints might feel really great. If you are smart to begin with there are a lot of options on this forum to get even smarter. 

 

But there are so many illnesses where supplemention will not help much.

[VERITAS INCORRUPTUS]

Not if it is the appropriate supplement applied in the correct manner to the appropriate pathway.  Obviously if something is damaged past a certain point then there can be an impairment beyond supplementation to offer much if any benefit.  I should have clarified as to a moderate deficit/dysregulated type state.  I was implying states more akin to normal aging and the deficits within diminished levels of endogenous substrates that cause a diminished state of health and well-being.

 

If you have no problem with your joints there is no(not much) of any effect glucosamine would(could) have much at all; whereas indeed glucosamine, especially in conjunction with other targeted joint repair agents, will generally have some impact towards improvement of an impaired condition.  There is a relatively low degree of creating supra-physiological joint integrity.

 

There are some areas that are less tightly regulated (toward  a 'set' homeostasis) and have a greater threshold to move toward supra-physiological levels.  Muscle mass would be one such area.  

 

[Bryan_S]

 

P90X, a yoga mat, and a good set of free weights made much more of a difference in my well being than any supplement I've tried, at least so far.

 

 

Exercise can be a 'eustress' of greatest benefit that is absolutely acting upon the cellular level of course.  Obviously, as with everything, it has its limits, and supplementation can be both additive and synergistic.

 

 

I think maybe you are missing the point of this thread. This is about the effects or non effects of NR.

I do not for one minute deny that exercise is a good thing but once we reach a certain age no matter how much exercise we do the aging process has started to take its toll and no matter how much exercise we do it will not stop it or reverse it, though it may slow it down to a degree.

Also some people around here are at an age or state of health that rigourus exercise is no longer a viable option.

As Vastmandana says and I have said on one or two occasions the fact that people posting on this subject are of vairing ages it makes it difficult to judge the potential effects of NR as it would (if it works) have more profound effects on those of us that are in the middle to older age groups. Younger participants should be in better health on the cellular level and may no benefit so much as the older amongst us.....I too think it would be a great help if people posting on this thread gave their age.

So I think that posting information on strenuous exercise regimens would not be very beneficial to this particular thread.

 

I actually have a good example in my family of how just exercise and healthy eating alone works for some people.

I have an uncle over there in the USA who is 89 years old, he has spent all his life looking after himself on both those fronts. He exercised every two days and eat mostly fruit and vegetables for nearly all his life. Since his mid 70's he has not had the use of his legs and does not know who or where he is, he is now 89 years old and lives in a care home in Yelm in Washington.

He actually told me in conversation in about 1981 he wholeheartedly expected to live to be 110 years old because of the way he had lived his life, he actually may still live to be that age, but he, like I say, has been in the condition he is in now for 15 years and has another 21 years of that to come if he is going to reach his goal!

Also for those that think exercise is the answer, just google some of your favorite athletes of the past and see where they are now.....I have done this and their life span on average was no longer than the average.

Like I said earlier, I am in no way saying exercise is a bad thing, it probably keeps you healthier longer, but the vessel you are traveling through life in is slowly wearing out and what I am here for is to try and find some help in changing that to a greater or lesser degree.....This is why I am on this thread about Nicotinamide Riboside and not a thread on exercise.......Just sayin'

 

 

I agree however the act of exercise helps increase circulation to the far extremities of the body and that indeed enhances the Nicotinamide Riboside experience. I use an inversion bed to help make sure I'm hitting all the tissue spaces of the body. Good nutrition, waste removal and blood circulation go hand in hand.

[aribadabar]

Please try to keep posts on the topic of your experience with NR – thanks.   

 

+1

[niner]

 

I will make a relatively simple statement here.

 

Supplementation will always fare better to regain a state that is aimed to correct a deficit/dysregulation, than that which is attempting to achieve a truly supra-physiological outcome.

 

I think oftentimes the opposite is true. It's easier to make something better that is already working, than to make something work that is broken.

 

I don't think so.  Biology is fantastically complex.  A random modification is far more likely to make things worse than to make them better.  Healthy bodies are already optimized by evolution.  Sick or aged bodies have deficits, and fixing those deficits presents a mechanism to improve the state of that organism.  If there are no deficits to fix, as in the case of a healthy young person, good luck making it better. 

[Vastmandana]

I also disagree... The whole point of longevity/NR supplementation is to restore dwindling levels of NAD and other elements of our biochemistry so crucial to proper function at the cellular level. 7keto, pqq, alcar and all the other wonders compensate for deficiencies which occur over time. It's the whole point of longevity research...

Edited by Vastmandana, 28 October 2014 - 02:16 AM.

[M-K]

I wonder about the wisdom of mixing high doses of NA and NR:

http://www.longecity...ndpost&p=690297

Of course this is only reported in yeast.

Edited by M-K, 29 October 2014 - 03:54 AM.

[krillin]

I wonder about the wisdom of mixing high doses of NA and NR:

http://www.longecity...ndpost&p=690297

Of course this is only reported in yeast.

 

Rats quickly develop a tolerance to NA too. See Figure 3 after clicking Download.
 

[BobSeitz]

Many moons ago, on April 4th of 2014, I began posting my more-or-less daily results of the high-dose of Niagen I was taking. I mentioned in my April 26 daily entry that I was getting a blood draw for a basic blood assay on Monday, April 28th. I posted updates until the 30th of April and then I disappeared. The reason was that on the following day (the 1st of May), I received the results of my blood test. Everything was fine except for one shocker: my creatinine was elevated. I immediately eliminated all supplementation, including Niagen. I also thought about the fact that I was risking a lot by taking something that at that time, had a very meager track record in terms of human trials. Did all that B3 have to be balanced by other B vitamins? My elevated creatinine level was a wake-up call for me personally to avoid being one of the first pioneers to test high-dose Niagen in humans. (Had I gotten normal normal blood chemistry numbers, I would no doubt have continued my Niagen experiment.) Better to wait a month or two for another blood test. This would also allow more time for more Niagen results to accumulate.

I should have written a follow-up account for the "NR Experience" explaining what had happened, but I didn't think that my Niagen experiment had caused my elevated creatinine level. In the end, I "quietly folded my tent like the Arabs, and silently stole away".

Today, I began taking Niagen again, starting with a two-capsule (250 mg.) dose, along with TriMethylGlycine (TMG), SAMe,  apigenin, and a modest dose of B vitamins.

[tintinet]

I had a recent creatine WNL while taking 500 mg NR/day, FWIW.  Everything else (lab test wise) typical for me also.

[M-K]

I had a recent creatine WNL while taking 500 mg NR/day, FWIW. Everything else (lab test wise) typical for me also.

Pardon my ignorance, but does this mean your creatine was high? And exactly what does that mean healthwise?

[VERITAS INCORRUPTUS]

creatinine (not creatine)

 

elevated creatinine levels are generally considered a sign of kidney dysfunction/stress, possible indication of CKD

Edited by VERITAS INCORRUPTUS, 05 November 2014 - 04:43 AM.

[Vastmandana]

WNL is short for "within normal limits"

[jwillis]

Many moons ago, on April 4th of 2014, I began posting my more-or-less daily results of the high-dose of Niagen I was taking. I mentioned in my April 26 daily entry that I was getting a blood draw for a basic blood assay on Monday, April 28th. I posted updates until the 30th of April and then I disappeared. The reason was that on the following day (the 1st of May), I received the results of my blood test. Everything was fine except for one shocker: my creatinine was elevated. I immediately eliminated all supplementation, including Niagen. I also thought about the fact that I was risking a lot by taking something that at that time, had a very meager track record in terms of human trials. Did all that B3 have to be balanced by other B vitamins? My elevated creatinine level was a wake-up call for me personally to avoid being one of the first pioneers to test high-dose Niagen in humans. (Had I gotten normal normal blood chemistry numbers, I would no doubt have continued my Niagen experiment.) Better to wait a month or two for another blood test. This would also allow more time for more Niagen results to accumulate.

I should have written a follow-up account for the "NR Experience" explaining what had happened, but I didn't think that my Niagen experiment had caused my elevated creatinine level. In the end, I "quietly folded my tent like the Arabs, and silently stole away".

Today, I began taking Niagen again, starting with a two-capsule (250 mg.) dose, along with TriMethylGlycine (TMG), SAMe,  apigenin, and a modest dose of B vitamins.

 

A very interesting Blood test and a Smart decision I would think.

 

I read recently that an assay of many Creatine supplements revealed they were often substantially "contaminated" with Creatinine, as much as 47% by weight.. so far from being benign they could actively be driving your Creatinine levels up when you thought you were supplementing with Creatine.

 

Its given me a lot of pause when considering taking a Creatine supplement. I've halted.

 

And now I'm considering sources that provide a Third party assessment of their content or purity.

 

Contamination in the Supplement industry seems to be a rampant problem because its not  regulated. Its primarily drive by economics. Buyer beware ideology.

 

We hear a lot about the FDA intercting with the Supplement industry, but its important to understand they are not enforcing standards, the burden of proof is on the FDA to prove a Supplement causes harm.. and then they can only take it off the market.. not enforce codes of conduct.
 

[Bateau]

 

Many moons ago, on April 4th of 2014, I began posting my more-or-less daily results of the high-dose of Niagen I was taking. I mentioned in my April 26 daily entry that I was getting a blood draw for a basic blood assay on Monday, April 28th. I posted updates until the 30th of April and then I disappeared. The reason was that on the following day (the 1st of May), I received the results of my blood test. Everything was fine except for one shocker: my creatinine was elevated. I immediately eliminated all supplementation, including Niagen. I also thought about the fact that I was risking a lot by taking something that at that time, had a very meager track record in terms of human trials. Did all that B3 have to be balanced by other B vitamins? My elevated creatinine level was a wake-up call for me personally to avoid being one of the first pioneers to test high-dose Niagen in humans. (Had I gotten normal normal blood chemistry numbers, I would no doubt have continued my Niagen experiment.) Better to wait a month or two for another blood test. This would also allow more time for more Niagen results to accumulate.

I should have written a follow-up account for the "NR Experience" explaining what had happened, but I didn't think that my Niagen experiment had caused my elevated creatinine level. In the end, I "quietly folded my tent like the Arabs, and silently stole away".

Today, I began taking Niagen again, starting with a two-capsule (250 mg.) dose, along with TriMethylGlycine (TMG), SAMe,  apigenin, and a modest dose of B vitamins.

 

A very interesting Blood test and a Smart decision I would think.

 

I read recently that an assay of many Creatine supplements revealed they were often substantially "contaminated" with Creatinine, as much as 47% by weight.. so far from being benign they could actively be driving your Creatinine levels up when you thought you were supplementing with Creatine.

 

Its given me a lot of pause when considering taking a Creatine supplement. I've halted.

 

And now I'm considering sources that provide a Third party assessment of their content or purity.

 

Contamination in the Supplement industry seems to be a rampant problem because its not  regulated. Its primarily drive by economics. Buyer beware ideology.

 

We hear a lot about the FDA intercting with the Supplement industry, but its important to understand they are not enforcing standards, the burden of proof is on the FDA to prove a Supplement causes harm.. and then they can only take it off the market.. not enforce codes of conduct.
 

 

 

Supplementing with creatine or increasing meat/egg/dairy content of the diet will generally increase serum creatinine. This is not a bad thing.

 

Certain products (e.g. Creapure) are very reliable, and contamination is not an issue.

 

The FDA does enforce standards, so sick of hearing that they don't. GMP compliance is one example, claims are another. The FDA takes claims about curing/treating any disease or disorder very seriously and will get products making sensationalist claims (e.g. supplements for cognitive decline and male sexual dysfunction are 2 prime examples of products that are constantly being shut down by the FDA ) removed from the market very quickly

 

 

[follies]

I have an interesting personal experience. I am 80% certain this is due to NR, niagen but as I take many supplements it could be an interaction or something else, I have been trying to isolate it. The symptom is similar to the niacin flush in a way, but it is isolated to my lips. My lips itch and I end up biting them and scratching off or biting off the top layer of epidermis. This has happened 3 times, I don't know if I can get use to it by continuing use. Up to now I have stopped use for a week or two. I thought it was an odd experience and wonder if any one else has a similar experience.

[follies]

One more thing, for bioavailability I usually take the NR sublingually, but it doesn't contact the lips.

[Vastmandana]

I've been taking it for a couple months now,1g/day part sublingual part with teas...never experienced this.

[M-K]

More studies coming:

 

http://www.prnewswir...-282915781.html

 

"Dr. Lavery will receive approximately £1.6 million (or US $2.5 million) from the Wellcome Trust to fund basic, pre-clinical and human research for the next five years to investigate the metabolism of NR and its potential roles in the metabolic control of aging and exercise adaptation."

[Vastmandana]

Cool... thanks for the new info! But as Duarte intimates, if ur my age waiting 5 years doesn't make sense...

Too bad there's no one willing to monitor those of us currently using NR...

[midas]

More studies coming:

 

http://www.prnewswir...-282915781.html

 

"Dr. Lavery will receive approximately £1.6 million (or US $2.5 million) from the Wellcome Trust to fund basic, pre-clinical and human research for the next five years to investigate the metabolism of NR and its potential roles in the metabolic control of aging and exercise adaptation."

 

I'm really not happy with that article, its nothing more than an ad fro Niagen from Chromadex..

 

They talk about NR being tested and trialed over the next five years at Birmingham University which gets you attention but they then do as they have done before refer to David Sinclair's work at Harvard by referring to the study that was published last year.

The BIG problem I have with this is as I have pointed out before, is that the David Sinclair study which they refer to was NOT on NR (Nicotinamide Riboside) and was done with NMN (Nicotinamide Monucleotide) They once again refer to the mouse muscle tissue regeneration as though it had something to do with NR.....This is not true.

 

They then go on to end with a paragraph called "Forward-Looking Statements:" which from what I can see, is a paragraph which covers them if they have got it wrong with the claims they are making about NR.

 

I really cant understand how they get away with continuously quoting this study to sell their product.

We are all hoping NR is beneficial, but the more I see Chromadex relying on that Sinclair study the more I am beginning to doubt Niagen.

Chromadex are blatantly trying to mislead to sell their product. Its time they actually came forward with some solid information about Niagen that they can back up scientifically.

[APBT]

While all of the topics brought up in this thread have merit – vitamin A, creatine, recent press releases and on and on.  They do not relate to the topic thread: personal experience with NR.  Please-o-please, let’s keep it on topic; and create new threads or add to other existing threads regarding OT posts.  Thanks. 

[resveratrol_guy]

Since it's not obvious from the internal search at Longecity, the nicotinamide riboside science news thread is here, where midas' very insightful but technically irrelevant article also happens to be linked.

 

[relativityboy]

APBT - You've been taking Niagen for a while now. What's your opinion? Positive effects? Negative effects? 

I'd filter this thread by 'only your posts' but I've not found the control for that yet.

[MrHappy]

15 days and 1 bottle down so far @ 2 x 250mg per day.

Points of interest:
1. Had a slightly upset stomach in the first week shortly after taking each capsule.
2. Skin appears to be changing / rejuvenating. Better elasticity and firmer around the eyes. Can't say for sure if it's because of taking NR of giving up alcohol for the next month or so. Either way, I like it.

More to come.

[MrHappy]

Oh, also forgot to mention - vivid dreams seem to be a thing, too.