2266 replies to this topic

[MikeDC]

When you take R, you will get more energy. It doesn’t mean you will be healthier longer term. If you increase your testosterone really high, you might feel invincible. But you will die sooner.

[Harkijn]

Good to hear this, Pampaguy!

In my case, it was at 62yo that my life seemed to implode. Fortunately I came across the NR threads here. And now, after 4 years of NR I look and feel much better than at 62 and way before that.....

[Turnbuckle]

 

 

 

As for NAM and Ribose:  as several people have pointed out before, the real reason that no scientist sofar has researched this combination is that no scientist has hypothesized that this would raise NAD+ more than NAM alone.

 

 

 

Really! And you know this how?

[MikeDC]

Good to hear this, Pampaguy!
In my case, it was at 62yo that my life seemed to implode. Fortunately I came across the NR threads here. And now, after 4 years of NR I look and feel much better than at 62 and way before that.....

Many people feel like I am pushing NR for commercial interest. But I truly believe NR is a miracle drug against aging. I will keep spreading the words. I feel sorry for people who keep fighting it.

[stefan_001]

In my opinion that is not true. Almost all human trials were conducted by vested interest to make a buck. Anything that would jeopardize that will not be pursued.

I took NR for 1 year, and got good results. Most people on this blog are not 65 yo+. I have been getting even more energy at 71 with N+R. When you are cleaning out your cells, you know it. I get exactly the same feelings taking N+R as I did with NR. Im in a unique position because I have takened both and Im over 70. Most people are not going to get great results until they are over 65 when your energy really goes downhill. I was running half marathons into my sixties, until you hit the wall. Before that, I had no need for NAD supplementation. Had plenty of energy.

 

I think you are mixing up having energy and anti aging. Lets see when you are couple years on N+R instead of NR.  Read this:

 

The influence of D-ribose ingestion and fitness level on performance and recovery

Journal of the International Society of Sports Nutrition 2017

 

https://jissn.biomed...2970-017-0205-8

DR supplementation in the lower VO2 max group resulted in maintenance in exercise performance, as well as lower levels of RPE and CK. Unlike no observed benefits with DEX supplementation.

Edited by stefan_001, 31 December 2017 - 06:25 PM.

[PAMPAGUY]

Have more energy now than in the past 8 years. Healthy mitocondria go hand in hand with energy and longevity. Cant have one without the other.

[stefan_001]

Have more energy now than in the past 8 years. Healthy mitocondria go hand in hand with energy and longevity. Cant have one without the other.

 

well if you stay off the NR and continue on N+R alone for couple years then we will know the answer. For now you might still be enjoying a better mitochondrial health because of the 1 year NR.

Edited by stefan_001, 31 December 2017 - 07:10 PM.

[able]

Now that they are finally able to detect a little NR in the bloodstream, and an increase after oral NR, wouldn't it  be a simple experiment?

 

Measure NR level after 8 hour fast.  Consume large quantity of N + R, and measure NR in blood every 1/2 hour or so for 8 hours.  

 

If it does actually increase NR in blood, it would kill the market for NR and NMN - which limits those interested in funding.  But it seems like some researchers that aren't so aligned could do such basic research.

 

Edited by able, 31 December 2017 - 08:53 PM.

[MikeDC]

Now that they are finally able to detect a little NR in the bloodstream, and an increase after oral NR, wouldn't it be a simple experiment?

Measure NR level after 8 hour fast. Consume large quantity of N + R, and measure NR in blood every 1/2 hour or so for 8 hours.

If it does actually increase NR in blood, it would kill the market for NR and NMN - which limits those interested in funding. But it seems like some researchers that aren't so aligned could do such basic research.

It is not as easy as that. The Increased NAD+ can be converted into NMN and NR. There are also many assumptions during sampling and testing.

[able]

 

Now that they are finally able to detect a little NR in the bloodstream, and an increase after oral NR, wouldn't it be a simple experiment?

Measure NR level after 8 hour fast. Consume large quantity of N + R, and measure NR in blood every 1/2 hour or so for 8 hours.

If it does actually increase NR in blood, it would kill the market for NR and NMN - which limits those interested in funding. But it seems like some researchers that aren't so aligned could do such basic research.

It is not as easy as that. The Increased NAD+ can be converted into NMN and NR. There are also many assumptions during sampling and testing.

 

 

I don't follow you on this. You suggest the NAM could increase NAD+, which then could degrade to NMN and NR - enough to measurably elevate NR?

 

 If N +R increased blood NR levels, that would be the important finding - regardless of what route it takes.  

 

 

Edited by able, 31 December 2017 - 09:46 PM.

[able]

I just stumbled on this august 2016 podcast by Ben Greenfield with Dr Mercola, who says he takes NIACIN + D-Ribose to increase NR in the body.  

 

"Joe:  Yeah.  But here’s another strategy, this is part of my detox.  One of the things I do with my sauna before, and I don’t know if you’re doing this, I take 4 grams of niacin, not the time-release, just niacin, and 15 grams of ribose, D-ribose.  So they actually kinda combine to form into nicotinamide riboside.  (laughs) Prior to the sauna, it increases NAD+."

 

Likely I missed where this has been pointed out before in the N + R discussions, but thought I'd throw it out there just in case.

 

 

[stefan_001]

You probably want to compare N versus N+R supplementation.

[MikeDC]

Now that they are finally able to detect a little NR in the bloodstream, and an increase after oral NR, wouldn't it be a simple experiment?

Measure NR level after 8 hour fast. Consume large quantity of N + R, and measure NR in blood every 1/2 hour or so for 8 hours.

If it does actually increase NR in blood, it would kill the market for NR and NMN - which limits those interested in funding. But it seems like some researchers that aren't so aligned could do such basic research.

It is not as easy as that. The Increased NAD+ can be converted into NMN and NR. There are also many assumptions during sampling and testing.

I don't follow you on this. You suggest the NAM could increase NAD+, which then could degrade to NMN and NR - enough to measurably elevate NR?

If N +R increased blood NR levels, that would be the important finding - regardless of what route it takes.

You will have to compare NAM with N+R. Even increased NAD+ is not the end game. NAM may be able to increase NAD+ as effective as NR below certain levels, the result in Heath improvement can still be very different due to NAMPT activation and inflammation. If you think N+R is just as good and cheap, enjoy it. Don’t hook naive users into it and miss the benefit of NR. If you want to do good, do some research and compare the benefits.

[stefan_001]

I just stumbled on this august 2016 podcast by Ben Greenfield with Dr Mercola, who says he takes NIACIN + D-Ribose to increase NR in the body.  

 

"Joe:  Yeah.  But here’s another strategy, this is part of my detox.  One of the things I do with my sauna before, and I don’t know if you’re doing this, I take 4 grams of niacin, not the time-release, just niacin, and 15 grams of ribose, D-ribose.  So they actually kinda combine to form into nicotinamide riboside.  (laughs) Prior to the sauna, it increases NAD+."

 

Likely I missed where this has been pointed out before in the N + R discussions, but thought I'd throw it out there just in case.

 

"Mercola has been criticized by business, regulatory, medical, and scientific communities. A 2006 BusinessWeek editorial stated his marketing practices relied on "slick promotion, clever use of information, and scare tactics."[3] In 2005, 2006, and 2011, the U.S. Food and Drug Administration warned Mercola and his company that they were making illegal claims of their products' ability to detect, prevent, and treat disease.[6] The medical watchdog site Quackwatch has criticized Mercola for making "unsubstantiated claims [that] clash with those of leading medical and public health organizations and many unsubstantiated recommendations for dietary supplements."
https://en.wikipedia.../Joseph_Mercola

[MikeDC]

I just stumbled on this august 2016 podcast by Ben Greenfield with Dr Mercola, who says he takes NIACIN + D-Ribose to increase NR in the body.

"Joe: Yeah. But here’s another strategy, this is part of my detox. One of the things I do with my sauna before, and I don’t know if you’re doing this, I take 4 grams of niacin, not the time-release, just niacin, and 15 grams of ribose, D-ribose. So they actually kinda combine to form into nicotinamide riboside. (laughs) Prior to the sauna, it increases NAD+."

Likely I missed where this has been pointed out before in the N + R discussions, but thought I'd throw it out there just in case.

On one hand you ignore all the research studies, and on another You think it is all true because some talking head said so?

Please stop polluting this thread with all the N+R and mitochandrial dynamics garbage. Talk in your own thread.

[Harkijn]

A separate Niacin + R thread may be the best way to go.  

 

Not so impressive btw that dr. M. says (a few lines above his Niacin revelation) that David Sinclair concocted NR. 

[able]

 

I just stumbled on this august 2016 podcast by Ben Greenfield with Dr Mercola, who says he takes NIACIN + D-Ribose to increase NR in the body.

"Joe: Yeah. But here’s another strategy, this is part of my detox. One of the things I do with my sauna before, and I don’t know if you’re doing this, I take 4 grams of niacin, not the time-release, just niacin, and 15 grams of ribose, D-ribose. So they actually kinda combine to form into nicotinamide riboside. (laughs) Prior to the sauna, it increases NAD+."

Likely I missed where this has been pointed out before in the N + R discussions, but thought I'd throw it out there just in case.

On one hand you ignore all the research studies, and on another You think it is all true because some talking head said so?

Please stop polluting this thread with all the N+R and mitochandrial dynamics garbage. Talk in your own thread.

 

 

Wow, back from your latest ban less than 24 hours and you're already in rabid attack mode.

 

I have NEVER said N + R = NR.  I don't personally believe it does, but am willing to keep an open mind.  

 

I have many times said I believe NR is more beneficial than NAM, but am curious if N + R has any benefit over NAM.

 

I didn't mean to imply that Dr Mercola's ideas are some kind of proof. He certainly has some wacky ideas, along with some that are very solid, so I am always skeptical of him.

 

I merely found it interesting he proposes Niacin + Ribose, and thought someone might have insight into where he came up with that idea.  

 

 

Edited by able, 31 December 2017 - 10:44 PM.

[Heisok]

able, please do not take offense. I respect your posts a great deal.

 

I am glad Mike DC is posting, and is adding some excellent food for thought. I also agree that there is a great place in Turnbuckles thread for non NR posts. Sorry.

 

 

 

I just stumbled on this august 2016 podcast by Ben Greenfield with Dr Mercola, who says he takes NIACIN + D-Ribose to increase NR in the body.

"Joe: Yeah. But here’s another strategy, this is part of my detox. One of the things I do with my sauna before, and I don’t know if you’re doing this, I take 4 grams of niacin, not the time-release, just niacin, and 15 grams of ribose, D-ribose. So they actually kinda combine to form into nicotinamide riboside. (laughs) Prior to the sauna, it increases NAD+."

Likely I missed where this has been pointed out before in the N + R discussions, but thought I'd throw it out there just in case.

On one hand you ignore all the research studies, and on another You think it is all true because some talking head said so?

Please stop polluting this thread with all the N+R and mitochandrial dynamics garbage. Talk in your own thread.

 

 

[bluemoon]

  They have all had multiple chances to mention all the other precussors, but have declined to do so. As we all have said, we need an unbaised trial comparing NR, N+R, and NMN. Not sure if we will ever get it.

 

They don't care about the elderly patients that are ageing and dying now.  Sinclair said 3-4 years on NMN, but doesn't say a word about NR or N + R which can be cheaply bought now.

 

As you may recall, Guarente and Sinclair would mention NR and NMN as equals in 2014. Gurante said so in a 15 minute interview in his office that was put up on youtube in February: "You would use one or the other." And Sinclair discussed his NMN mice experiments but also included NR as well in a talk in Australia in the fall.  

[LawrenceW]

 

 But NR is the best anti aging pill available. 

 

MikeDC, have you ever tried a serious regimen of NMN?

[MikeDC]

But NR is the best anti aging pill available.

MikeDC, have you ever tried a serious regimen of NMN?

Not yet. I might try it when human clinical trials show NMN is more effective than NR and it is commercially available at reasonable price. NR is doing great for my health and I am afraid to interrupt it.

[LawrenceW]

I have taken both and from my personal experience I have to disagree with your statement of "But NR is the best anti aging pill available." 

 

In my opinion, NMN is by far the better anti-aging pill.

[able]

I've been taking NR for 3 years with very good results and also do not want to discontinue taking it.

 

I have experimented with  adding N + R to my regimen, but have trouble discerning any difference, as I am constantly tinkering with diet and exercise, which has huge effect on health and makes it hard to evaluate smaller changes due to supplements.

 

Now that NMN is available for the same price as NR, I am taking 500mg NMN and 500mg NR.

 

Again, is hard to discern a difference in energy or anything.  I will have blood test next month that might show something, although my results have been excellent the last 2 years.

 

I agree with Dr Sinclair that  it's likely we'll find they are effective in different organs for different conditions, and taking both seems like good insurance with little risk imo.

 

Many of us here have been taking NR for years, long before it had clinical study results or GRAS, so it seems a bit strange to suddenly insist we shouldn't try NMN until the first clinical study is published.

Edited by able, 01 January 2018 - 05:26 PM.

[PAMPAGUY]

Who do you get your NMN from and what do you pay?

 

Thanks,

 

 

[LawrenceW]

MikeDC.

 

I took 500mg of Niagen twice per day for 3 months and my experience was that the NR did not reduce my HgA1c number one iota.  NR did not resolve any of my arthritic joints. NR did not reduce my biological age even one year. NR did not reduce my inflammation levels.

 

NR did give me a bit more energy, but heck I could have had a cup of coffee instead.

[stefan_001]

MikeDC.

 

I took 500mg of Niagen twice per day for 3 months and my experience was that the NR did not reduce my HgA1c number one iota.  NR did not resolve any of my arthritic joints. NR did not reduce my biological age even one year. NR did not reduce my inflammation levels.

 

NR did give me a bit more energy, but heck I could have had a cup of coffee instead.

 

That could be the case that in some people NR is not effective. It always the case that in a small percentage things work different, in your case there is ofcourse the compounding factor of massive NMN dosing for a very long time. If there is any homeostatic reaction of the body then I would think it should have occurred with you. Your report is however countered with multiple positive experiences. Perhaps I should try to keep track of the numbers, my guess is we are at a 85%-15%.

Recently I gave a months worth of Niagen to a collegue I copy pasted below his reaction. There is another interesting thing with that. Some here will remember the discussion about "more white" HPN Niagen capsules. So I gave him the white ones. His feedback tells me that HPN has been truthfull and ships real NR.

-----------------------------

From:
Sent: Friday, December 22, 2017 9:39 PM
To:
Subject: Re: niagen
Hi, i guess there is some more or less permanent damage.  But it is less numb since some days hence there's hope.
I try to take it easy for a week. We'll go to ……………………………………….
You taking a break? If yes, enjoy!
---------------------------
On 22 Dec 2017, at 11.52, ……………. wrote:
Aha so you really had nerve damage 
Already on holiday? If so best wishes!
------------------------------------
From:
Sent: Thursday, December 21, 2017 8:47 PM
To:
Subject: Re: niagen
Not yet so much I could say something definetive. I have bad and worse days. And they told me back then that nerve grows like one mm / month. So recovery will take time even if they fixed root cause..
------------------------------------------
On 21 Dec 2017, at 18.09, ……. wrote:
Btw you notice anything for the nerve numbness in your shoulder/arm?
------------------------------
From:
Sent: Thursday, December 21, 2017 3:46 PM
To:
Subject: RE: niagen
I actually think as well there is something there! After maybe 7-10 days or so I realized I just simply felt better, many ways. And it is not that there would be less stress of something which would make me feel better. Will have to order this!
------------------------------------------
From:
Sent: Thursday, December 21, 2017 12:18 PM
To:
Subject: RE: niagen
Personally I believe its real but only works in people that are getting older….like us.
try this one:
https://www.amazon.c...hpn+niagen&th=1
-----------------------------------
From:
Sent: Thursday, December 21, 2017 9:14 AM
Subject: RE: niagen
where do you order this, or who delivers to XYZXYZ? I feel more energetic after now taking it some time. Be it real or placebo effect, I still feel better. Hence will order some.

 

Edited by stefan_001, 01 January 2018 - 08:46 PM.

[jjnz]

https://www.ncbi.nlm...les/PMC4099343/
Slightly, unless you have grapejuice.
But lower blood pressure and blood sugar (multiple studies) are bigger factors than ldl

[LawrenceW]

 

MikeDC

Your comment above "Too bad for you." needs to be corrected to "Too bad For NR."

I don’t think so. Nothing works for everybody. Some people may not absorb or have issues converting NR to NAD+

 

 

I do think so. 

 

The reason is that after my 3 month experiment with NR I started back up on a half dose of my NMN regimen and after 3 months the NMN reduced my post NR HgA1c reading of 6.4 to a 5.8. Every arthritic joint is now pain free. My biological age dropped from a post NR 76 to 45. My inflammation markers all improved.

 

C-reactive protein dropped from a post NR 0.9 to 0.49.

Tumor Necrosis Factor Alpha dropped from 1.9 to 1.2

Interleukin-6 plasma dropped from 1.2 to 0.9.

 

Can we all agree that less inflammation is a good thing?

 

The reason that I say Too bad for NR is because unlike NR, NMN gets the job done.

Edited by LawrenceW, 01 January 2018 - 10:28 PM.

[MikeDC]

MikeDC

Your comment above "Too bad for you." needs to be corrected to "Too bad For NR."

I don’t think so. Nothing works for everybody. Some people may not absorb or have issues converting NR to NAD+

I do think so.

The reason is that after my 3 month experiment with NR I started back up on a half dose of my NMN regimen and after 3 months the NMN reduced my post NR HgA1c reading of 6.4 to a 5.8. Every arthritic joint is now pain free. My biological age dropped from a post NR 76 to 45. My inflammation markers all improved.

C-reactive protein dropped from a post NR 0.9 to 0.49.
Tumor Necrosis Factor Alpha dropped from 1.9 to 1.2
Interleukin-6 plasma dropped from 1.2 to 0.9.

Can we all agree that less inflammation is a good thing?

The reason that I say Too bad for NR is because unlike NR, NMN gets the job done.

Maybe for you. Maybe just circumstantial. If you used high dose NMN before NR and you think NMN works, why was your body not in perfect shape? Could it be that high dose NMN causes issues and took a while to normalize? High dose NMN is toxic. There is a paper on that. 250mg NR lowered A1C for both my wife and me. My wife is diabetes and she now has normal A1C.
Since there is no reliable source of NMN, you might have taken high dose NAM which is known to cause insulin resistance.

Edited by MikeDC, 01 January 2018 - 10:43 PM.

[MikeDC]

https://www.ncbi.nlm...ubmed/25323584/

https://www.ncbi.nlm...ubmed/28441566/