2266 replies to this topic

[albedo]

@hd98. Strange if your doc was concerned by diabetes he did not prescribe Glucose and A1C. Any change there? Do I understand correctly the main change you have seen is with lipids?

Edited by albedo, 15 December 2018 - 04:43 PM.

[hd98]

@hd98. Strange if your doc was concerned by diabetes he did not prescribe Glucose and A1C. Any change there? Do I understand correctly the main change you have seen is with lipids?

 

He didn't think I was diabetic. He just said if my triglyceride got any higher than it already was I would be at high risk of diabetes. He wanted to monitor it, rather than starting me on any meds or supplements.

[stefan_001]

Age: 40

 

NR: 375mg a day, first thing in the morning on empty stomach

Pterostilbene. 50mg in the morning, another 50mg in the evening after dinner

L-Carnosine - 500mg in the morning, another 500mg in the evening after dinner

 

Don't really take any other meds except for hayfever tablets.

 

No changes to diet. Quite unhealthy in this regards. Addicted to KFC and coke. 

 

No changes to exercise. In fact, I think I've been less active than I used to be.

 

Doctor had said if my triglyceride levels went up any more I was at high risk of becoming diabetic. Thought that my cholesterol levels were getting a bit high too and was about to put me on meds for this as well. Now he's satisfied with both. 

 

Thanks for posting this. While many will down play this I think its incredible, you moved your self back into the "safe" bracket.

 

+ this was after almost a year so that downplays the homeostatic concerns voiced here. Based on this I will also now and then add PT back in.
 

Edited by stefan_001, 15 December 2018 - 05:07 PM.

[MikeDC]

Thanks for posting this. While many will down play this I think its incredible, you moved your self back into the "safe" bracket.

+ this was after almost a year so that downplays the homeostatic concerns voiced here. Based on this I will also now and then add PT back in.

One person I introduced Niagen to dropped his Triglycerides a few hundred points after two months. Another one had very high cholesterol and dropped 400 points in a few months. NR is very effective at lower Triglycerides and cholesterol when they are extremely high.

[smithx]

Your GGT is highly elevated, and nearly doubled from the first to the second test, which apparently indicates increasing liver damage:

 

https://www.mayoclin...terpretive/8677

 

 

I've been taking NR since late September 2017 along with pterostilbene and l-carnosine and want to share some blood test samples of before taking NR and after.

 

First test taken September 2017 right before supplementation. 2nd test from August 2018.

 

blood test.pdf

 

Edited by smithx, 15 December 2018 - 10:15 PM.

[hd98]

Your GGT is highly elevated, and nearly doubled from the first to the second test, which apparently indicates increasing liver damage:

 

https://www.mayoclin...terpretive/8677

 

Way ahead of you on that. My doctor already picked that up as well. Have had my liver checked twice and also thyroid checked. All good.

[Phoebus]

Way ahead of you on that. My doctor already picked that up as well. Have had my liver checked twice and also thyroid checked. All good.

 

have your GGT levels come down since then? Any idea on why they rose so suddenly? 

 

It kind of makes me wonder if processing that much NAM is  hard on the liver? 

Edited by Phoebus, 16 December 2018 - 03:59 AM.

[hd98]

have your GGT levels come down since then? Any idea on why they rose so suddenly? 

 

It kind of makes me wonder if processing that much NAM is  hard on the liver? 

 

 

No idea. Not due for another test until March 2019. Will see then.

[smithx]

Those are *really* high GGT levels and could indicate severe and worsening liver issues.

 

If I saw this in my bloodwork I'd be consulting a specialist for a second opinion, since it's potentially a very serious condition.

 

 

No idea. Not due for another test until March 2019. Will see then.

 

[hd98]

Those are *really* high GGT levels and could indicate severe and worsening liver issues.

 

If I saw this in my bloodwork I'd be consulting a specialist for a second opinion, since it's potentially a very serious condition.

 

As stated above, have had my liver checked twice and yes by separate specialist.

[smithx]

Good! I'm glad you got another opinion.

 

What would be really interesting (to me at least) would be if you discontinued the NR until your next test in a few months and could see if that makes the GGT levels decline again or not.

 

 

As stated above, have had my liver checked twice and yes by separate specialist.

 

[hd98]

Good! I'm glad you got another opinion.

 

What would be really interesting (to me at least) would be if you discontinued the NR until your next test in a few months and could see if that makes the GGT levels decline again or not.

 

My only worry in doing that kind of experiment is that NR was what brought my cholesterol and triglyceride levels down to the safe bracket.

 

What I'm going to try and do instead is cut down on my sugar intake which I believe should technically bring my GGT levels down as well.

[MikeDC]

Good! I'm glad you got another opinion.

What would be really interesting (to me at least) would be if you discontinued the NR until your next test in a few months and could see if that makes the GGT levels decline again or not.

What if the GGT spike was due to another reason and it is gone. Your experiment would falsely blame NR. NR should help liver, not damage it.

[Phoebus]

My only worry in doing that kind of experiment is that NR was what brought my cholesterol and triglyceride levels down to the safe bracket.

 

What I'm going to try and do instead is cut down on my sugar intake which I believe should technically bring my GGT levels down as well.

 

https://www.ncbi.nlm...pubmed/21067030

 

Silymarin tends to normalise GGT levels

 

I highly recommend Life Extension's European Milk Thistle with Advanced Phospholipid Delivery

 

its a great product and the phospholipids greatly enhance effectiveness

Edited by Phoebus, 16 December 2018 - 04:14 PM.

[MikeDC]

[quote name="Phoebus" post="864938" timestamp="1544976820"]

https://www.ncbi.nlm...pubmed/21067030

Silymarin tends to normalise GGT levels

I highly recommend Life Extension's European Milk Thistle with Advanced Phospholipid Delivery

its a great product and the phospholipids greatly enhance effectiveness[quote]

The beneficial effects of silibinin is through inhibition of PARP and increased NAD+ levels. Inhibition of PARP long term will be really bad for health.

https://www.ncbi.nlm...=silibinin nad

[Phoebus]

The beneficial effects of silibinin is through inhibition of PARP and increased NAD+ levels. Inhibition of PARP long term will be really bad for health.

https://www.ncbi.nlm...=silibinin nad

 

 

well inhibiting parp is only one action of MT 

 

"Inhibition of PARP long term will be really bad for health." got any proof that mild inhibition of parp via MT is 'really bad"? 

[aribadabar]

Way ahead of you on that. My doctor already picked that up as well. Have had my liver checked twice and also thyroid checked. All good.

 

Your doctor rather dismissed it if he did not suggest something to address it head-on,  stat.

For comparison, my GGT is 9 so as others mentioned yours is REALLY high.

The other liver indicators (ALT, AST, ALP) are also elevated beyond normal - ideally should be in the teens to low 20s.

Do yourself a favour - clean up your diet a little bit and put yourself on TUDCA 500 mg/d for 2-3 months.

At your March checkup , I bet your liver panel would look much better if you do so.

[bluemoon]

Your doctor rather dismissed it if he did not suggest something to address it head-on,  stat.

For comparison, my GGT is 9 so as others mentioned yours is REALLY high.

The other liver indicators (ALT, AST, ALP) are also elevated beyond normal - ideally should be in the teens to low 20s.

Do yourself a favour - clean up your diet a little bit and put yourself on TUDCA 500 mg/d for 2-3 months.

At your March checkup , I bet your liver panel would look much better if you do so.

 

The only liver level that is high is the GGT - the rest are normal. A common cause of a high GGT is too much alcohol but can occur with weight lifters and of course can be an indicator of something serious beyond alcohol abuse. You definitely want to get a high GGT level checked, but he did.

[aribadabar]

The only liver level that is high is the GGT - the rest are normal. A common cause of a high GGT is too much alcohol but can occur with weight lifters and of course can be an indicator of something serious beyond alcohol abuse. You definitely want to get a high GGT level checked, but he did.

 

With respect, anything over 40 is elevated (abnormal) in my book. If ALL liver markers are elevated that signifies a problem. With one is off the charts that is a serious problem that requires an immediate intervention.

 

I did not see anywhere that the second test was showing lower numbers so "checked" does not amount to much if the issue actually persists. It sounds more like the second doc dismissed/downplayed it.

 

Those are my 2c when it comes to striving for health and overall longevity. He is welcome to ignore me at this own peril/risk.

[smithx]

The only other liver function marker I noticed that's significantly out of range is your bilirubin, which is  lower than normal. Apparently the combination of high GGT and low bilirubin could indicate coronary atherosclerosis. So you should probably consider getting a calcium scan.

 

https://www.ncbi.nlm...pubmed/26026212

 

My only worry in doing that kind of experiment is that NR was what brought my cholesterol and triglyceride levels down to the safe bracket.

 

What I'm going to try and do instead is cut down on my sugar intake which I believe should technically bring my GGT levels down as well.

 

[MikeDC]

Normal range for bilirubin is 1.7 to 20.5 umol/L. So 9 and 12 is not low.

[smithx]

Oops you are correct. I made an error in translating units.

 

Normal range for bilirubin is 1.7 to 20.5 umol/L. So 9 and 12 is not low.

 

[hd98]

With respect, anything over 40 is elevated (abnormal) in my book. If ALL liver markers are elevated that signifies a problem. With one is off the charts that is a serious problem that requires an immediate intervention.

I did not see anywhere that the second test was showing lower numbers so "checked" does not amount to much if the issue actually persists. It sounds more like the second doc dismissed/downplayed it.

Those are my 2c when it comes to striving for health and overall longevity. He is welcome to ignore me at this own peril/risk.

Thanks for the concern, but I think I'll stick to the opinion of my gp and the two specialist that I saw.

[joesixpack]

Thanks for the concern, but I think I'll stick to the opinion of my gp and the two specialist that I saw.

 

I think that is a good idea, that is what you pay him for. I did find the discussion informative and it will help me review my own test results in the future. I am sure you will have a lot of questions for your GP when you meet in March.

[stefan_001]

Hair update approaching 49 years old. Any middle aged male knows that this is not how it normally works...From retreating, to halt, to recovery.

 

Attached Files

•  comparison end of 2018.jpg   76.5KB   2 downloads

[dosquito]

I know that this is a pretty naive question, but here it goes:

NMN is a more direct precursor to NAD+. But NR, despite whatever inefficiency, is proven to elevate NAD+. So what's the theory behind the advantage?

[able]

I know that this is a pretty naive question, but here it goes:

NMN is a more direct precursor to NAD+. But NR, despite whatever inefficiency, is proven to elevate NAD+. So what's the theory behind the advantage?

 

The natural tendency is to ask questions on the current popular thread, but your question gets debated over and over and derails ALL the NAD+ threads.

 

This thread is supposed to be about personal experience with NR such as Stefans observation on hair growth.  It would be helpful to ask your question  on one of these recent threads that are more specific to the mechanics of NR vs NMN:

 

 

NAD+ and NMN > NR > cells or NR > NMN > cells?

 

 

Cycling Protocols for NAD+ Precursors

 

 

Supplementation: NMN vs NAD+ vs NR

Edited by able, 24 December 2018 - 03:48 AM.

[dosquito]

You're right, sorry. I'm just new to the space and excited about it

[midas]

Hair update approaching 49 years old. Any middle aged male knows that this is not how it normally works...From retreating, to halt, to recovery.

 

Haven't these pictures been posted on here before???

[ryukenden]

Hair update approaching 49 years old. Any middle aged male knows that this is not how it normally works...From retreating, to halt, to recovery.

Your hair looks thicker but you appear to have more wrinkles which is more evident at right lower corner of 2018 photo.