2266 replies to this topic

[bluemoon]

My hair clearly seemed thicker to my surprise after six months of NR at 250 mg a day. Charles Brenner thought it would be normal for hair to grow faster but he doubts thicker. Still...

[stefan_001]

Haven't these pictures been posted on here before???

The first one yes, the second one is from yesterday. Its all about tracking if you want to know whether there is progress either positive or negative. Sounds your need to say something critical is overiding thinking. Anyways good memory. In fact I have posted these a number of times over the years on this forum.

Edited by stefan_001, 24 December 2018 - 12:48 PM.

[stefan_001]

Your hair looks thicker but you appear to have more wrinkles which is more evident at right lower corner of 2018 photo.

Good observation but that is not the case. My skin is better. The wrinkles come from trying to look to the side and upward at the phone screen to maneuver the cam so I get the same angle as the original I took almost 4 years ago. I should have taken that first picture differently so it would be easier to redo. Wrt wrinkles they have stayed somewhat the same. They did not go away but didn't increase either. What did change is more "filling" in the skin. I assume collagen increased as my face looks fuller.

Edited by stefan_001, 24 December 2018 - 01:15 PM.

[stefan_001]

My hair clearly seemed thicker to my surprise after six months of NR at 250 mg a day. Charles Brenner thought it would be normal for hair to grow faster but he doubts thicker. Still...

There are a couple options. Brenner is wrong on this one. The combination with other supplements do the trick.

Edited by stefan_001, 24 December 2018 - 12:53 PM.

[stefan_001]

Anyways similar to last time make your own conclusions, will post another one in 6 months or so. And thanks to all who share their experiences as well

Edited by stefan_001, 24 December 2018 - 01:21 PM.

[midas]

The first one yes, the second one is from yesterday. Its all about tracking if you want to know whether there is progress either positive or negative. Sounds your need to say something critical is overiding thinking. Anyways good memory. In fact I have posted these a number of times over the years on this forum.

 

I wasn't being critical, it was a simple question..

Could you post all pictures in order to see the progress over time?

[stefan_001]

@midas the improvement is somewhat steady. No growth spurts just slow but steady improvement. As I also continue to feel and look better my increasing view is that NAD+ boosting is a long game. There may be some initial transient that all report here but from then on its as you logically expect slow but steady. Like a reverse aging which is also slow but steady.

Edited by stefan_001, 24 December 2018 - 03:23 PM.

[Oakman]

Placeholder for my NR use. I'd been taking it continuously for a couple years in varying amts 125-750 mgs. About three weeks ago I ran out, and decided to stop / see what happens.  So far, nothing out of the ordinary, except saving $40/mo.

[bluemoon]

About three weeks ago I ran out, and decided to stop / see what happens.  So far, nothing out of the ordinary, except saving $40/mo.

 

You are growing tired...  very, very tired...

[stefan_001]

Placeholder for my NR use. I'd been taking it continuously for a couple years in varying amts 125-750 mgs. About three weeks ago I ran out, and decided to stop / see what happens.  So far, nothing out of the ordinary, except saving $40/mo.

 

My guess on this one is you simply start aging faster from the point you stop taking NR. I guess you are not noticing anything for some time. Interesting experiment.
 

[LawrenceW]

This new study just came out that disproves several of Chromadex's advertising claims on this page,

 

Specifically:

 

"2 NR can enter the cell. NMN cannot" 

 

" 3. NMN makes NAD in 3 steps. NR requires only 2."

 

" 5. NR is taken orally. NMN is mostly studied by injection"

 

Could someone please make Chromadex aware of this and have them update their advertising? 

[stefan_001]

@ LawrenceW They are easy to reach, you can simply call them yourself. The phonenumber is T: (949) 419-0288

Edited by stefan_001, 10 January 2019 - 12:35 PM.

[LawrenceW]

Hello Stefan.

 

I don't care as I stopped using Niagen over a year ago.  But, you as a shareholder, should be concerned about false advertising claims.

[bluemoon]

  But, you as a shareholder, should be concerned about false advertising claims.

 

#5 is misleading (even though I think accurate statements) so should be removed.

[stefan_001]

Hello Stefan.

I don't care as I stopped using Niagen over a year ago. But, you as a shareholder, should be concerned about false advertising claims.

Oh please.... Sad.... In any case it seems you care as you found it worth to post it in the personal experience thread.

Edited by stefan_001, 10 January 2019 - 06:46 PM.

[jjnz]

Peter Attia has an interesting podcast on this with Navdeep Chandel, Ph.D.: Metabolism, Mitochondria, And Metformin In Health And Disease (Ep.31) where they discus this. https://www.stitcher...5329&autoplay=1 And https://www.stitcher...6901&autoplay=1
In my mind that’s the nail in the coffin for NR, but it should be a good lesson in how effective placebo effects are

[stefan_001]

Peter Attia has an interesting podcast on this with Navdeep Chandel, Ph.D.: Metabolism, Mitochondria, And Metformin In Health And Disease (Ep.31) where they discus this. https://www.stitcher...5329&autoplay=1 And https://www.stitcher...6901&autoplay=1
In my mind that’s the nail in the coffin for NR, but it should be a good lesson in how effective placebo effects are

Did you listen? The second guy uses NMN even he keeps saying need clinical trials first :-)

Plus he believes he sleeps better.

[Heisok]

Did you listen? The second guy uses NMN even he keeps saying need clinical trials first :-)

Plus he believes he sleeps better.

 

I agree, but I did listen to that and his most recent interview. Are you mixing the 2 up? https://peterattiamd.com/nirbarzilai/

 

NAD and NAD precursors (NR and NMN) [2:30:00]

What is your belief that orally administered nicotinamide riboside (NR), which is a precursor to nicotinamide adenine dinucleotide (NAD+), can actually make it into a cell?

• Josh Rabinowitz’s paper would suggest, “No, most of this is going to the liver.”
• Nir says it’s unclear but does have personal experience taking NMN (another precursor of NAD similar to NR)

Improvements in sleep?

• Since taking NMN, Nir says his sleep has improved but he doesn’t believe it necessarily because correlation doesn’t necessarily mean causation
• Nir is measuring sleep with fitbit, Peter measures sleep with the Oura Ring)
• There is also some preliminary data by Shin Imai suggesting that subjects are getting deeper sleep and more REM by taking NAD precursors
• However… “It’s very hard to measure that and without clinical studies that are really well-controlled, I think it’s going to be hard to just support that.”

For me, N.R. negatively effected my sleep, while NMN does not hurt it even taken  an hour or less before going to bed.

Edited by Heisok, 11 January 2019 - 02:19 AM.

[smithx]

Good paper!

What they actually found was that zero oral route NR and zero or nearly zero NMN gets through the liver intact.

But IV did get to the tissues (except the brain).

 

This again argues for sub-lingual as the very much preferred method of dosing (barring injection).

 

I wish they had also tested NAD+ to see what tissues it gets into and if it passes the Blood Brain Barrier.

 

Josh Rabinowitz’s paper would suggest, “No, most of this is going to the liver.”

 

[LawrenceW]

Good paper!

What they actually found was that zero oral route NR and zero or nearly zero NMN gets through the liver intact.

But IV did get to the tissues (except the brain).

 

 

 

Apparently you didn't read this paper https://www.nature.c...55-018-0009-4. In this paper they point out that the researchers in the paper you reference didn't handle the NMN blood samples correctly and got faulty readings.

 

Two very interesting findings were:  "These results clearly demonstrate that Slc12a8 specifically transports NMN, but not NR, in the order of minutes."

 

and "We have previously shown that NMN is absorbed from the gut into blood circulation within 2–3 min and transported into tissues within 10–30 min (refs 5,15). NMN is then immediately utilized for NAD+biosynthesis, significantly increasing NAD+ content in tissues over 60 min."

[stefan_001]

@LawrenceW can you move your NMN promotion out of the NR Personal experience thread?

[Andey]

Apparently you didn't read this paper https://www.nature.c...55-018-0009-4. In this paper they point out that the researchers in the paper you reference didn't handle the NMN blood samples correctly and got faulty readings.

 

Two very interesting findings were:  "These results clearly demonstrate that Slc12a8 specifically transports NMN, but not NR, in the order of minutes."

 

and "We have previously shown that NMN is absorbed from the gut into blood circulation within 2–3 min and transported into tissues within 10–30 min (refs 5,15). NMN is then immediately utilized for NAD+biosynthesis, significantly increasing NAD+ content in tissues over 60 min."

 

I was under the impression that the main takeaway from Liu - Rabinowitz study is how much isotope tracer from NR/NMN get into actual NAD+ levels outside the liver. Another important point is that it replicated the old study where all NR was broken into NAM+R after digestion. Both these points stay intact and are completely independent of measuring NMN  levels in the blood issue. I would say Rabinowitz`s paper is of a great service here as it points out that oral NR and NMN and not much different to taking NAM + Ribose for a much cheaper cost, and sublingual administration could be a way to use NMN for an additional benefit that could not be achieved by taking NAM + Ribose.

Edited by Andey, 11 January 2019 - 07:11 AM.

[Harkijn]

I see many important points noted here pro as well as con precursors. I suggest however that they are posted in the relevant threads and not in the NR personal experiences thread.

[LawrenceW]

@LawrenceW can you move your NMN promotion out of the NR Personal experience thread?

 

 

Stefan.

 

A year and 1/2 ago I got sucked in by their now false advertising claims to give Niagen a try.  I took 500 mgs twice per day for 3 months.  At the end of the 3 months my bloodwork showed no change and my arthritis pain was still with me.  I paid for 3 months of Niagen and I took Niagen for 3 months when I could have been taking NMN. Those are 3 months of aging that I can't get back. That is my personal NR experience.

Edited by LawrenceW, 11 January 2019 - 02:13 PM.

[stefan_001]

Stefan.

 

A year and 1/2 ago I got sucked in by their now false advertising to give Niagen a try.  I took 500 mgs twice per day for 3 months.  At the end of the 3 months my bloodwork showed no change and my arthritis pain was still with me.  I paid for 3 months of Niagen and I took Niagen for 3 months when I could have been taking NMN. Those are 3 months of aging that I can't get back.

 

Well there is now 1 study that is out that claims to have found a transporter so pretty strong statement. It is kind of laughable this coming from yourself as you promote a secret cocktail that you claim boosts NMN assimilation and talk about doing research without proof, publication etc:

 

LawrenceW, on 27 Dec 2018 - 11:04 PM, said:  

We were very pleased with results and the other 6 members began taking NMN along with the 2 other compounds.  All of our blood tests have showed the same dramatic and sustained decrease of inflammation. Since that time we have continued to research and experiment by adding and/or replacing compounds and adjusting their ratios to each other. In our current iteration we are using a 5 compound formulation to activate a total of 9 anti-aging pathways that sustains the NMN activation at its peak anti-inflammation levels.

 

If anything sounds like snake oil, false claims then its your talk above....Really you are activating 9 anti-aging paths? You measured that? Wanna publish? Hilarious.

 

Edited by stefan_001, 11 January 2019 - 02:17 PM.

[LawrenceW]

Stefan.

 

It was just over 5 years ago that Dr. Sinclair made his announcement about NMN that sent us all down this anti-aging, NAD+ increasing path. I still remember reading that press release on Dec. 19, 2013.  At the time he had announced that human trials would begin within 1 year. This meant that 3+ years down the road we might have something that we could start taking fully supported by human trial studies. At that time I was 55 and felt like I was getting older by the day. I chatted with a molecular biologist buddy of mine, who was a couple of years older than myself, and we decided that we didn't have the years to wait for the formal human trials process to slowly conclude. We first set out to prove to OURSELVES as to whether taking this dietary supplement was safe.  We spent tens of thousands on a myriad of blood tests and after 6 months of testing for any and all side effects, we found none. That was in the spring of 2015.  In the fall of 2018, 3.5 years later, Dr. Sinclair announced that his human trials found that it was safe for humans. Late in 2014 we discovered the issue of homeostasis. By the spring of 2015 we had discovered a formulation to resolve that problem.  In September of 2017 (almost 3 years later) Elysium published their study showing homeostasis limited the peak efficacy of NAD+ boosting at around 4 weeks with declines after that. To date no one else has stepped forward with any solution to this issue. Everyone seems to be content with a long term boost of somewhere between 40 and 60%. 

 

Since that time we have continued testing with dosing, application and discovering for OURSELVES a multitude of benefits. We are confident that in the coming years our findings will appear in study after study after study.

 

The question for you is; do you want to sit around getting older and losing your health waiting for the next 1,5, 10 or 15 years for the studies to be published or do you want to do something proactive now?

 

 

[stefan_001]

@LawrenceW

Here is the thing you are hyper critical of established researchers that publish results in peer reviewed publications without having any credentials yourself and at the same time you are making claims that have no foundation except your blood values. Moreover you are pushing your NMN favoritism in the NR Personal experience thread and in the NMN thread you are promoting indirectly your friends business:

https://www.egaceutical.com/

 

It says on the main page: EGA® has been demonstrated to reverse age in humans.

 

Snake oil sales buddy, nothing more and nothing less. And you are claiming other companies do false advertising?!?!?!

Edited by stefan_001, 11 January 2019 - 03:31 PM.

[Oakman]

^ No slight to your efforts LawrenceW, but rather than criticize, why don't you simply let us ALL in on your efforts, other than saying you have some. Researchers and scientists do not hide their studies particulars like you seem to be doing. Rather they lay out the theory, then proceed to prove its efficacy or not. You have a whole forum listening and interested, but you remain silent.

Edited by Oakman, 11 January 2019 - 03:37 PM.

[LawrenceW]

@LawrenceW

Here is the thing you are hyper critical of established researchers that publish results in peer reviewed publications without having any credentials yourself and at the same time you are making claims that have no foundation except your blood values.

 

Please point out a single instance on this forum where I have been "hyper critical" of peer reviewed publications. 

 

My only frustration with peer reviewed publications is the glacial pace at which they come into existence.

[midas]

Please point out a single instance on this forum where I have been "hyper critical" of peer reviewed publications. 

 

My only frustration with peer reviewed publications is the glacial pace at which they come into existence.

 

I'm not sure which part of this is the wrong thread for this you don't understand old chap?

 

You are promoting NMN and keeping secrets in the process of doing so....We have to ask why that would be.