2266 replies to this topic

[smithx]

You are confusing two things.

 

The paper you cite shows how NMN already in the blood can get into cells.

 

The paper I'm responding to shows that NMN taken vial oral route doesn't get into the blood  but is instead converted in the liver.

 

So if NMN is taken via injection or sub-lingual, then it should get into the blood and then from the blood into the cells.

 

This goes for NR as well.

 

Apparently you didn't read this paper https://www.nature.c...55-018-0009-4. In this paper they point out that the researchers in the paper you reference didn't handle the NMN blood samples correctly and got faulty readings.

 

Two very interesting findings were:  "These results clearly demonstrate that Slc12a8 specifically transports NMN, but not NR, in the order of minutes."

 

and "We have previously shown that NMN is absorbed from the gut into blood circulation within 2–3 min and transported into tissues within 10–30 min (refs 5,15). NMN is then immediately utilized for NAD+biosynthesis, significantly increasing NAD+ content in tissues over 60 min."

 

[LawrenceW]

 

 

The paper I'm responding to shows that NMN taken vial oral route doesn't get into the blood  but is instead converted in the liver.

 

 

 

The paper you are referring to measured for NMN many hours after it was administered.  The other paper pointed out that they needed to perform their measurements within minutes of administration and not hours later.  By the time they measured for NMN the NMN was already converted into NAD+ inside the cells and was no longer in the blood stream. In the Lui paper, the NMN was not detected in the blood but was detected in the liver and therefore they concluded that none of the NMN made it out of the liver.

Edited by LawrenceW, 11 January 2019 - 09:10 PM.

[Vastmandana]

I wish mods would take some actions against LawrenceW for nonstop trolling the NR personal experiences thread. I'm getting quite sick of wading thru his specious off topic and unsupported posts.

There is a MMM thread... take your blather there, dude... thanks Midas, Stephan and others for TRYING to address this issue.

I come here for focused intellegent discussions. Trolls need to be moderated

[LawrenceW]

Vastmandana

 

Fair enough. I'll steer clear.

Edited by LawrenceW, 11 January 2019 - 11:28 PM.

[smithx]

To be fair, does seem to be some question as to what NMN actually gets into the blood via oral route.

 

 

You are confusing two things.

 

The paper you cite shows how NMN already in the blood can get into cells.

 

The paper I'm responding to shows that NMN taken vial oral route doesn't get into the blood  but is instead converted in the liver.

 

So if NMN is taken via injection or sub-lingual, then it should get into the blood and then from the blood into the cells.

 

This goes for NR as well.

 

[bluemoon]

^ No slight to your efforts LawrenceW, but rather than criticize, why don't you simply let us ALL in on your efforts, other than saying you have some. Researchers and scientists do not hide their studies particulars like you seem to be doing. Rather they lay out the theory, then proceed to prove its efficacy or not. You have a whole forum listening and interested, but you remain silent.

 

Well said, Mr. Oakman! (But I'm surprised that you have the energy to write such a good post since you stopped taking NR.)

[Phoebus]

 

 

The paper I'm responding to shows that NMN taken vial oral route doesn't get into the blood  but is instead converted in the liver.

 

 

 

thats silly. Any substance you take is going to get into the blood at least a little whether its NR or NMN or any other random supplement. 

[stefan_001]

Here is a test that all can try and that for me confirms that sublingual use of capsules of Niagen does something. Its simple: after a day working in front of my laptop my eyes are tired late night and screen slightly so more blurry. I put the contents of a Niagen capsule under my tongue. In minutes my vision clears. Its repeatable for me at least. Ofcourse if you have perfect eye sight then nothing to see....

Edited by stefan_001, 12 January 2019 - 08:54 PM.

[Vastmandana]

Here is a test that all can try and that for me confirms that sublingual use of capsules of Niagen does something. Its simple: after a day working in front of my laptop my eyes are tired late night and screen slightly so more blurry. I put the contents of a Niagen capsule under my tongue. In minutes my vision clears. Its repeatable for me at least. Ofcourse if you have perfect eye sight then nothing to see....

NR DOES improve failing eyesight...I noticed this over 2 years ago and reported it here... specifically, after reviewing and following the well moderated threads of Bryan (i miss him) on NR research, I began my own long term trial (still going strong...have quite a stockpile!)

While I had been pursuing an evolving & extensive longevity/QofL regimen for decades, once I hit 60 i noticed my stellar eyesight had started to decline...it got so bad that when I'd arrive home after a day of urban gardening I was unable to read the combination numbers opening the gates to my own urban farm...got really screwed a few times when my cell phone was out of gas and i didnt have a light handy...

Within weeks of beginning my NR test protocol I was pleasantly surprised that this was no longer a problem... I was able to read the combo numbers despite dusk conditions and have found less need for Costco magnifies since then

This was a totally unexpected result (I was the first to mention it on this forum)... it's cut & dry, not subjective and believe me, I was blown away. I've been taking large doses of NR (.5~1g)/day since then.

I covered virtually EVER aspect of NR & longevity at that time but due to family demands, I no longer emerse myself quite so much in the ongoing dialogues. Personally, I'm focused on data, logic, and unfolding possibilities. I'll repeate, I miss Brian's data driven threads...My regimen continues to evolve, as new insights are gleaned...such as the more recent and still nebulous but promising realm of synolytics.

For my age (now 67) I'm in fantastic health, ccompared to my peers...and I view NR as a likely IMPORTANT element in a logevity/QofL path...the amount of data on NR is volumnous (you can spend days in Bryan's curated thread) and the evening i was able to unlock my gate unaided was enough for me to recognize "something' was happening to begin stabilizing/repairing failing body parts..."

People moan and groan about the money, the slow pace of human trials, politics and other things while others are jumping in to sell different or promote different things. Me? I live frugally, don't wast a bunch of money on garbage consumer driven crap, and try & live a healthy and useful life... And try and keep up with new data.  We are STILL at a point where we are flying with a cloudy windshield, so I try and see as clearly as possible, given this current situation 

Until solid data shows there is a more effective way to continue elevating cellular nad levels, I'll stick with NR, from proven sources of pure product...

Love my new eyes!

Edited by Vastmandana, 13 January 2019 - 04:49 AM.

[stefan_001]

@Vastmandana thanks for the update!

[bluemoon]

  And try and keep up with new data.   

 

What new data in past months have you been trying to keep with?

 

The U of Colorado-Bolder trial results were published ten months ago and still no publication of Chromadex's trial of 140 people. Elysium's results were published a little over a year ago.

[Ambrosia]

I have discovered that taking NR sublingual is vastly superior than swallowing the pill, benefits such as:

almost instant effect (Energy rush, mind clarity, etc)

Less or no side effect, for me swallowing the pill after a few days i start feeling low energy, sick, etc. Seems to be very common side effect on NR, but can be avoided by sublingual. 

Use less dosage for same outcome = saving money

 

I can replicate this every time and have experimented over a couple of weeks so not placebo for sure

 

Those of you who had issues with NR might find taking it sublingual will solve alot of your problems. Just open up the pill and drop the powder right under your tongue, then seal the area with your tongue for 10 minutes try not to talk or move your tongue alot to allow max absorption. After 10-15 minutes you'll notice most of it is gone

 

I don't take it everyday, usually 4 or 5 days a week

Edited by Ambrosia, 20 January 2019 - 12:27 AM.

[accord]

I have discovered that taking NR sublingual is vastly superior than swallowing the pill

 

I'm also doing this for a while. The idea partly came from longecity, partly from alivebynature articles. For me, sublingual feels similar to the effects to swallowing 3-4 capsules.

 

How much you do this per day? Only a single 125mg capsule, so 125mg/day? (on days when you do this)

Do you do this once a day only?

 

I started it with around 2 minutes. Some say that 2-3 minutes should be enough. Later, I switched to 5 minutes and I noticed the difference (stronger effects). Why did you decide to keep it for 10-15 minutes? Do you feel the difference vs shorter periods of time?

Edited by accord, 20 January 2019 - 09:52 AM.

[Ambrosia]

I'm also doing this for a while. The idea partly came from longecity, partly from alivebynature articles. For me, sublingual feels similar to the effects to swallowing 3-4 capsules.

 

How much you do this per day? Only a single 125mg capsule, so 125mg/day? (on days when you do this)

Do you do this once a day only?

 

I started it with around 2 minutes. Some say that 2-3 minutes should be enough. Later, I switched to 5 minutes and I noticed the difference (stronger effects). Why did you decide to keep it for 10-15 minutes? Do you feel the difference vs shorter periods of time?

 

It depends but on most days i take 1 capsule NR 150 MG sublingual in the morning first thing (Tru-niagen now makes them minimum 150 which i think is the sweet spot) every now and then i add an extra 150MG in the afternoon. You might get some mild burning but that goes away after an hour max. From my experience 1 Sublingual gives you the same effects as 3x via oral route

 

I know most ppl here say 2-3 minutes, but like you i found it insufficient and with trial found 10 minutes under tongue well sealed to give me maximum effect by then most of it is absorbed anyway. IMO the 2-3 minutes thing is because ppl hate the taste and just can't wait to gulp it down.

[midas]

It depends but on most days i take 1 capsule NR 150 MG sublingual in the morning first thing (Tru-niagen now makes them minimum 150 which i think is the sweet spot) every now and then i add an extra 150MG in the afternoon. You might get some mild burning but that goes away after an hour max. From my experience 1 Sublingual gives you the same effects as 3x via oral route

 

I know most ppl here say 2-3 minutes, but like you i found it insufficient and with trial found 10 minutes under tongue well sealed to give me maximum effect by then most of it is absorbed anyway. IMO the 2-3 minutes thing is because ppl hate the taste and just can't wait to gulp it down.

 

Curious as to what else is in those capsules and whether it's OK to soak it up straight into the blood stream?

[able]

Curious as to what else is in those capsules and whether it's OK to soak it up straight into the blood stream?

 

I'm not too concerned about the safety.  The fillers must be inert and safe.  But the ones I have tried don't absorb well, and I really don't like have a soggy pile sit there for several minutes.

 

Fortunately someone is finally offering a pure NR powder on amazon:

 

https://www.amazon.c...uct/B07J1VWSZM/

 

At $100 an ounce, or $3.64 a gram, thats quite a bit less than Tru Niagen  ($5 a gram) or even the other knockoffs.

 

Of course, we don't know anything about the quality or purity.  They say they'll send a COA with shipment, so I just made an order.  

 

Am actually excited to try it sublingual, and maybe mix with NMN powder.

[Phoebus]

I'm not too concerned about the safety.  The fillers must be inert and safe.  But the ones I have tried don't absorb well, and I really don't like have a soggy pile sit there for several minutes.

 

Fortunately someone is finally offering a pure NR powder on amazon:

 

https://www.amazon.c...uct/B07J1VWSZM/

 

At $100 an ounce, or $3.64 a gram, thats quite a bit less than Tru Niagen  ($5 a gram) or even the other knockoffs.

 

Of course, we don't know anything about the quality or purity.  They say they'll send a COA with shipment, so I just made an order.  

 

Am actually excited to try it sublingual, and maybe mix with NMN powder.

 

let us know what your experience with that product is please 

 

also at 1 Kg for $2,637.99 ($2.62 / Gram) there is group buy potential there 

Edited by Phoebus, 22 January 2019 - 04:53 AM.

[bluemoon]

I have a feeling Chromadex's patents won't hold. Just  a hunch based on the case so far. I'd say 50/50 chance.

[Ambrosia]

I'm not too concerned about the safety. The fillers must be inert and safe. But the ones I have tried don't absorb well, and I really don't like have a soggy pile sit there for several minutes.

Fortunately someone is finally offering a pure NR powder on amazon:

https://www.amazon.c...uct/B07J1VWSZM/

At $100 an ounce, or $3.64 a gram, thats quite a bit less than Tru Niagen ($5 a gram) or even the other knockoffs.

Of course, we don't know anything about the quality or purity. They say they'll send a COA with shipment, so I just made an order.

Am actually excited to try it sublingual, and maybe mix with NMN powder.

Tru-Niagen (Chromadex) is low molecular weight which means it’s super tiny and hydrophilic by design it gets absorbed real fast under the tongue. I personally don’t mind keeping it there for 5-10 min but everyone is different.

Taking NR sublingual will change a lot of people’s experiences with NR for the better, you will notice a significant difference. I suggest everyone on this thread try this method and compare

Edited by Ambrosia, 22 January 2019 - 09:04 AM.

[Phoebus]

Did I read somewhere that NR can be used directly by muscles but NMN cannot? 

 

Is that a thing? 

[stefan_001]

@phoebus since the latest paper from Imai and friends where they for the first time claim to have found a direct transporter the best way to look at this is from the gene expression atlas. the NRKs transport NR and the Slc12a8 transports NMN. I would still put my bet on NR as being clearly better able to enter directly.

 

Slc12a8 expression

https://www.ebi.ac.u...als"]}#baseline

Looks like:Thyroid, small and large intestine.

 

NRK1 expression

https://www.ebi.ac.u...als"]}#baseline

You can also find there strong expression in small intestine.

NRK2 expression

https://www.ebi.ac.u...als"]}#baseline

[stefan_001]

So I finally ran out of HPN NR and started to use the TruNiagen brand NR. This morning I emptied one capsule under my tongue. The amount of powder felt less and effect is definitely far stronger. The TN capsules have 25mg more than the HPN but that does not explain it. So its either the filler difference or then there is less NR in the HPN stuff then there should be.

[stefan_001]

So I finally ran out of HPN NR and started to use the TruNiagen brand NR. This morning I emptied one capsule under my tongue. The amount of powder felt less and effect is definitely far stronger. The TN capsules have 25mg more than the HPN but that does not explain it. So its either the filler difference or then there is less NR in the HPN stuff then there should be.

 

@dislike and @pointless rating: you probably see some nefarious push chromadex product atttempt here. Well let me tell you that the reason for swapping from HPN -> TN is because HPN no longer sells NR.  To add some more info, it is definitely more impact-full the TN capsule the uplift lasted much longer. Very happy with this.

 

Like I wrote earlier there is a very way to test NR sublingual. For people whos eyes get tired from computer work and the screen get a little blurry. When that is the case put the content of a niagen capsule under your tongue and the sharpness improves (at least with me).
 

[Phoebus]

@phoebus since the latest paper from Imai and friends where they for the first time claim to have found a direct transporter the best way to look at this is from the gene expression atlas. the NRKs transport NR and the Slc12a8 transports NMN. I would still put my bet on NR as being clearly better able to enter directly.

 

 

 

great, thank you 

[Ambrosia]

So I finally ran out of HPN NR and started to use the TruNiagen brand NR. This morning I emptied one capsule under my tongue. The amount of powder felt less and effect is definitely far stronger. The TN capsules have 25mg more than the HPN but that does not explain it. So its either the filler difference or then there is less NR in the HPN stuff then there should be.

 

Yep that 150MG is the sweet spot as i reported earlier.

 

As more and more people join the Sublingual NR bandwagon i'm confident we'll start to see alot more positive reports and results.

[StanG]

Thorne sells NiaCel-250 which they say has 250mg of NR Chloride. This obviously isn't the same as NR but does it have 250mg of NR and what are the other differences? 

[Harkijn]

@Stefan and StanG, these are interesting points but perhaps the vendor thread is the better one if you want to go into depth about brands.

For instance the TruNiagen. Since you live in europe I would be interested if you elaborated on prices per gram of the various vendors.

[stefan_001]

@Stefan and StanG, these are interesting points but perhaps the vendor thread is the better one if you want to go into depth about brands.

For instance the TruNiagen. Since you live in europe I would be interested if you elaborated on prices per gram of the various vendors.

 

I think what I wrote is a personal experience relevant for sublingual use. To add to my previous post: I found still one of the old HPN capsules with 125mg NR. It is clearly bigger so I now believe the reduced amount of filler is the main cause of better effect with TN.

Edited by stefan_001, 26 January 2019 - 04:13 PM.

[accord]

/off The ratings are so time wasting and egotistical. I was usually ignoring the nameless mean ratings but a few posts above a guy asked 2 QUESTIONS and all of the rating were invalid (see the below list). How can a QUESTION ill informed? How can you agree or DISAGREE with a question? I don't think that huge egos will allow people to have the CLARITY for serious life extension in the future. Chill. /on

Regarding the previous post regarding the EXPERIENCE about the different fillers under tongue is interesting, still negative feedback... It's like everyone is a type-A personality here :D

My experience also that too much Niagen can make me feel jittery, irritated, not being able to focus, so I take different supplements for that so I'm not mean with everybody :D. What's the point of energy if it's not focused? So it's a good nootropic but not in a high dose unless the energy is contained. Just my personal experience.

•  Ill informed x 2
•  Pointless, Timewasting x 1
•  Disagree x 1

Edited by accord, 27 January 2019 - 10:31 PM.

[accord]

Thorne sells NiaCel-250 which they say has 250mg of NR Chloride. This obviously isn't the same as NR but does it have 250mg of NR and what are the other differences? 

 

It is the very same thing. Some company who gets NR from Chromadex (such as Throne) use Chloride after Nicotinamide Riboside, others don't. My bottle of Tru Niagen in front of me (made by Chromadex directly) states Nicotinamide Riboside Chloride.

I understand your concern, I was also wondering about the same thing before. Chromadex's GRAS paper also calls it Nicotinamide Riboside Chloride. Some says that when it's left out, it is done just for simplification.

Edited by accord, 27 January 2019 - 10:38 PM.